PipeChat Digest #2911 - Sunday, June 16, 2002
 
St.Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, UK
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
LCMS Worship Conference
  by "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net>
Trinity III (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Rolls Royce, not blunderbus.
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
Re: St.Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, UK
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Dissing Digital Organs
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wayne@eminent-usa.com>
Re: digital voices and voicers
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: St.Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, UK From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 03:03:03 +0100   Hello,   I would hardly describe the organ of St Mary Redcliffe as a = "blunderbuss" of an instrument.   Whilst acknowledging that this is a highly romantic instrument, it is = capable of some remarkably beautiful sounds, a ferocious "Full Swell", = an impressive Great Chorus of enormous power and some very impressive = Tubas. The organ also has two 32ft reeds, one of which is enclosed.   Impressive it certainly is, but admittedly dated in the same way that a = Skinner organ is now "old fashioned". For build quality, Harrison & = Harrison have never been surpassed in the UK or anywhere else in the = world.   So let's be fair....it is a fine instrument which represented the = ultimate ideal when it was created.=20   My own tastes are quite different, but I do actually admire this = instrument a great deal.....it is almost certainly the best example of = Edwardian organ-building in the UK.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             -----Original Message----- From: "pipechat@pipechat.org" <pipechat@pipechat.org> on behalf of "Ross = & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Sent: 15 June 2002 23:32 To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: digital voices and voicers(REPLY: LONG)   I presume you mean St Mary Redcliffe not Radcliff? If you do indeed mean Redcliffe, the church Q.E.I described as having the fairest and = goodliest nave in England, then that organ is a blunderbuss of an old Harrison & Harrison, not exactly everyone's tonal idea. Ross -----Original Message----- From: Icedad@aol.com <Icedad@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 1:06 AM Subject: Re: digital voices and voicers(REPLY: LONG)     Dear Wayne,   I feel people are being unfair in their "dissing' of digital instruments. I was one of these people for many years. I would NEVER = have an "electronic gizmo" in my church. But, the day came to replace our organ = and we did not have the budget for a new pipe organ. The cost would have = been a staggering $1.2 million for a new pipe organ. We simply could not afford that large expense. We have a large sanctuary that seats over 1,200 = people who pray reverently and sing beautifully. Our organ committee and I researched, played and listened to = many organ installations for over a year. We heard many pipe as well as = digital organs in the southeastern USA. You name it , we heard and played it. Many outstanding pipe/digital organs by Allen, Reuter, Rodgers Wicks and Zimmer were also played and listened to. We finally decided on a pipe/digital combination by Allen with = the pipework done by Lauck Pipe Organ Company of Ostego, MI. Lauck is a small company that produces the most awesome sounding = organs. We heard Alan Morrison play the Dedicatory Recital on an Allen/Lauck installation at First Presbyterian in Orlando, Fl. The organ is STUNNING and the sound breath- taking. Alan = Morrison was technically perfect and his musicianship and artistry superb. Once = we heard this organ we knew we had made the right decision to go with Allen/Lauck. We now have a custom Allen Renaissance 80 stop pipe/digital installation in our sanctuary. It is absolutely remarkable. I have Cavaille-Coll , Casavant, Schlicker, Skinner , St. Mary's, Radcliff, England. samples that make the organ sound like a "million" bucks. The pipe sound is marvelous including the pipe nuances that we = all listen for with bated breath . I have played many pipe organs that do = not sound as good as our Allen Renaissance. Our pipe ranks include: = Principal 8', Octave 4', Fifteenth 2', Harmonic Flute 8' and Processional Trumpet = in the rear of the church under the high stained glass window. I have been spending 5-6 hours a day practicing on our new installation. Like being back in grad school... LOL The console is a custom 3 manual drawknob with bone keys and walnut sharps. This organ is a thrill to play. I can play organ literature from Bach to Langlais to Widor.... Thanks for listening to me. Enjoy!!   Sincerely,   Daniel Weimer Port Orange, Fl.     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: LCMS Worship Conference From: "Dennis Goward" <dlgoward@qwest.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:16:14 -0700   Anybody from Pipechat going to the "Worthy the Lamb" worship conference at Concordia-Wisconsin in July?   Dennis      
(back) Subject: Trinity III (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 19:41:50 -0700   St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church 2300 Ford Road (at Bonita Canyon and Prairie Roads) Newport Beach CA USA       THE THIRD SUNDAY AFTER TRINITY, 16 June 2002       SUNG HOLY COMMUNION at 9 a.m.   Voluntary - Communion - Batiste (grin) Processional - Jesus, Lover of My Soul - Aberystwyth Setting - Merbecke/Scottish Chant Gradual Canticle - Benedictus es, Domine - Taylor in G Anthem - Truly My Soul Waiteth on the Lord - Baines Communion Hymns There Were Ninety and Nine - The Ninety and Nine Rock of Ages - Toplady Orison - Day By Day - Sumner Recessional - God Be With You Till We Meet Again - Farewell Voluntary - Marche - Batiste       HIGH MASS AT 11 a.m.   Voluntary - Communion - Batiste (grin) Processional - Jesus, Lover of My Soul - Aberystwyth Introit - Respice in me - Dr. Willan Setting - Merbecke/Scottish Chant Gradual - Jacta cogitatum - Dr. Willan Alleluia - Deus judex justus - Dr. Willan Offertory Verse - Sperent in te - Dr. Willan Offertory Solo - The Whole Armor of God - Humphries Communion Verse - Dico vobis - Dr Willan Communion Hymns There Were Ninety and Nine - The Ninety and Nine Rock of Ages - Toplady Orison - Day By Day - Sumner Recessional - God Be With You Till We Meet Again - Farewell Voluntary - Marche - Batiste       Evensong last night was grand ... over a hundred people in the congregation ... that was also the first time I'd heard my fauxbourdons in that room.   This morning at chant class, one of the seminarians asked,   "Was that Palestrina?"   "No, Clark." (chuckle)       Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Rolls Royce, not blunderbus. From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 04:59:25 +0000   Dear Ross and Lynda Wards, St Mary's, Redcliffe is not an old blunderbus but a totally magnificent Rolls Royce of a Harrison and Harrison. Two full length 32'pedal reeds! It =   plays itself. John Foss         _________________________________________________________________ Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: St.Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, UK From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:30:51 +1200   I'm happy to be corrected, Colin. To be honest, and somewhat repentant, = I've been judging the organ not on personal experience, but on two or three videos I have of it, and much is inevitably lost or distorted in the recording process. Ross -----Original Message----- From: cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: St.Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, UK     Hello,   I would hardly describe the organ of St Mary Redcliffe as a "blunderbuss" = of an instrument.   Whilst acknowledging that this is a highly romantic instrument, it is capable of some remarkably beautiful sounds, a ferocious "Full Swell", an impressive Great Chorus of enormous power and some very impressive Tubas. The organ also has two 32ft reeds, one of which is enclosed.   Impressive it certainly is, but admittedly dated in the same way that a Skinner organ is now "old fashioned". For build quality, Harrison & = Harrison have never been surpassed in the UK or anywhere else in the world.   So let's be fair....it is a fine instrument which represented the ultimate ideal when it was created.   My own tastes are quite different, but I do actually admire this = instrument a great deal.....it is almost certainly the best example of Edwardian organ-building in the UK.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             -----Original Message----- From: "pipechat@pipechat.org" <pipechat@pipechat.org> on behalf of "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Sent: 15 June 2002 23:32 To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: digital voices and voicers(REPLY: LONG)   I presume you mean St Mary Redcliffe not Radcliff? If you do indeed mean Redcliffe, the church Q.E.I described as having the fairest and goodliest nave in England, then that organ is a blunderbuss of an old Harrison & Harrison, not exactly everyone's tonal idea. Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Dissing Digital Organs From: "Wayne Grauel" <wayne@eminent-usa.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 01:40:34 -0400   Hi Daniel, Read again, I was not Dissing Digitals... far from it! I was only giving an Amen to the previous post, who in so many words was saying, the Digital has come a long way, and that the true future success of the digital organ will rely on the skills and EARS of the person who sets out to voice the organ, or make it what it's going to be tonally!   I will say that I'm not a big fan of "do-all" organs with a few of this and a few of that... pipes or digital! I know this is going to start a feeding frenzy, but from a historical perspective, organs were created by their builders and the whole tonal vision that each presented was reflected in the "over all" sounds in their instruments. Each organ would have a distinctive character. The concept of taking a little of this persons work, and a little of that person's work to create a giant mixed breed organ will give you lots of stops and lots of sounds, but I would question the ability for an organ like that to have a true unified chorus over all of the divisions... or any real tonal focus other than the ability to make a lot of noise.   Seriously, organ building is a direct reflect on the culture and language of the country of origin. I just can't imagine listening to a sound that is a combination of French, English, German and Dutch.... I'm sure it's fun to have all of that if you wanted to play specific sounds, I just question the the true merit of this new concept in organs by some companies. I'm not talking about some of the digitals that change the whole organ with dual or triple voicing, that would be a clear distinct advantage... but to have it all play together as part of the chorus would render a sound totally different... to what ever degree of success. So therefor I question the ability of that concept of organ to hold up as a real unified chorus...   But that's only my thoughts and opinions, each will have different opinions to what ever degree while some will agree with me... Hey, we can hear the same thing in some repair shop pipe organ that was thrown together with numerous ranks of pipes. OK, it plays and makes a sound, but does it have a character and tonal concept that is unified and complements the organ as a whole?   Please do not think that I'm saying the specific organ you have is less than a success (tonally), how would I know from here... I'm just skeptical of the long term success of politically correct organ building.   What I do think, is the technology will say "been there - done that" and they will start building organs with multiple personalities on a more grand scale then we see today. Similar to the concept of dual voicing currently in used today..   Wayne    
(back) Subject: Re: digital voices and voicers From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 05:53:20 +0000   The electronic/digital v pipe organ is set to run until doomsday. One understated point is the importance of the speakers and their positioning. =   My Viscount is a mid range 2 manual with inbuilt speakers, which sounds rather boxy on its own, but it sounds much better using headphones, which = I often do, so as not to drive the neighbours mad. I think I mentioned the Copemann Hart electronic organ in a College in South London - absolutely excellent back in 1970 - Ernest built the best electronic organs then and probably still does. He understands the importance of the speaker system = and its environment. Anyway, to overcome the shortcomings of the Viscount I added two 100 watt technics speakers to the existing set up - there are = now 19 speakers including a Sub Bass Woofer - and the sound is considerably improved. My birthday recital took place last night - thanks all of you who sent me = an email - and my living room was full to bursting - 70 people came. It coincided with the first heatwave of the year - temperatures are up to 90 = - and my air conditioning was working overtime, however the organ behaved impeccably and it demonstrated the importance of the speakers. They are distributed around the room, and the sound can be controlled from the amplifiers quite effectively. I was reminded of the old Royal College of Organists H N & B organ - when I rehearsed the room was fairly resonant = and the organ gave a fine warm sound, but when full it sounded quite = different. A bit unsettling! The same was true last night - living rooms are the most =   demanding of acoustics, and when full the sound changes completely. It is even noticeable in quite large resonant rooms like Holy Trinity, Sloane Street and Notre Dame de France, Leicester Square, which lose their bloom when full of people. When Jean Langlais played at Holy Trinity in 1970 = there was a noticeable difference in the sound between the rehearsal and the performance. John Foss     _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com