PipeChat Digest #2920 - Wednesday, June 19, 2002
 
RE: Glenda's Sunday Dinner--off topic
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Mollers
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Mollers
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Sesquialtera
  by "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org>
RE: Sesquialtera (correction)
  by "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org>
Re: Mollers
  by "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.c
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
RE: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: Mollers
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>
Felix Hell's Schools Concert in Melbourne, Austraila
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Glenda's Sunday Dinner--off topic From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:06:34 EDT     --part1_18a.962bdd1.2a41bfba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 6/19/02 12:38:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:     > Monty, the fatback is cooked into the greens - probably should have > mentioned that fact. > >   No, no, that's a given.....I was talking about fried fatback, as a side. It's a staple around here, and I had never had it until I moved to this = part of SC. We didn't eat it in the part of the state I came from. It's an interesting culinary experience, and actually quite good!     Monty   --part1_18a.962bdd1.2a41bfba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 6/19/02 12:38:04 AM = Eastern Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Monty, the fatback = is cooked into the greens - probably should have<BR> mentioned that fact.<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BR> No, no, that's a given.....I was talking about fried fatback, as a = side.&nbsp; It's a staple around here, and I had never had it until I = moved to this part of SC.&nbsp; We didn't eat it in the part of the state = I came from.&nbsp; It's an interesting culinary experience, and actually = quite good!<BR> <BR> <BR> Monty</FONT></HTML>   --part1_18a.962bdd1.2a41bfba_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Mollers From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:26:26 -0500   Somewhere in Alabama is a rare (recent!) Moller tracker; at a Baptist church, I believe.   Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen _________________________________   There are a couple of Erbens still around here - one in a new home in a church in Mobile and one at its original home at Trinity Episcopal in Apalachicola. The only Moller in the immediate vicinity of which I'm aware is an old Student Artiste at St. Jude's Episcopal, Niceville.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Mollers From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:04:00 -0500   >Somewhere in Alabama is a rare (recent!) Moller tracker; at a Baptist >church, I believe.   You may confusing that with the Moller Tracker at Northminster Baptist Church in Monroe, LA. - http://www.northmin.com/music.html Scroll down the page for the Organ information.   David  
(back) Subject: Sesquialtera From: "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:26:51 -0400   Based on what I remember from a posting a number of months ago, one would not use the Sesquialtera II (with twelfth 2 2/3 and tierce 1 3/5) in order to build a Cornet with Flutes 8,4,2 because the tierce is a = principle timbre and not flute? Is this correct? Robert Colasacco  
(back) Subject: RE: Sesquialtera (correction) From: "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:31:37 -0400   I meant to say that because the twelfth is of principal timbre and not flute that this stop is not used to build the cornet.   -----Original Message----- From: COLASACCO, ROBERT [mailto:RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 1:27 PM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: Sesquialtera     Based on what I remember from a posting a number of months ago, one would not use the Sesquialtera II (with twelfth 2 2/3 and tierce 1 3/5) in order to build a Cornet with Flutes 8,4,2 because the tierce is a = principle timbre and not flute? Is this correct? Robert Colasacco   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Mollers From: "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:41:05 -0400     Just out of interest, does anyone know when Molller stopped making tracker =   instruments? Several years ago I played what was believed to be the = oldest Moller in use at the time in Cumberland Md. It was in pretty bad shape = but not a bad sound. I have since forgotten the supposed date of its = completion but it is original to the building, so I would expect that it was 1875-85 era, perhaps older.   Craig     _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:28:13 -0500   On 6/18/02 4:24 PM, quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > There are MANY *fine* 19th century one-manual organs still in use that > CAN play as much literature as a parish church of modest size would EVER > require.   But why on earth would you spec an organ the size of your example and = limit it to one manual? And why do organists think they are fit to decide that a parish church should live within such arbitrary limitations. Especially when, as we so often state as organists, we are installing an instrument which is going to last effectively forever. Would this not suggest that we should be striving for more versatility, not less?   Cheers, Russ    
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:30:28 -0500   On 6/18/02 4:50 PM, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov wrote:   > Three cheers for the one manual organ!!! As some of you may know, I = have > been a champion of one manual organs in small parish churches for very = long > time. I have had many experiences (as we all have) with rural churches > with you-know-whats where a small one manual organ would have been so > beautiful and ever so usable.   Such sentiments fairly drive the average organ committee into the arms of the digital salesman!   TTFN, Russ    
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:46:27 -0700     To answer Russ's last question: Not always. The problem here is what exactly is versatility and how important is it in a small parish church. (Let me define small as being seating less than 200 people). Its going to cost more to provide 2 manuals and its going to cost more to add more = stops not to mention take up more space. If a small parish church has LIMITED space and LIMITED funds, then why would a one manual organ not be a very viable option? Also - why was it acceptable to have one manual organs in the past but not now? What has changed? I propose that one of the things that has changed is the desire of people today to have as much as = possible. We want all the features on our computers, stereos, cars, etc.....BUT we forget that an organ is also a musical instrument first and foremost and = it has a certain job to do. That job is not going to be the same in a small rural church than it is in a large downtown parish church. These little organs (and I have played many of them for recital AND for services) play hymns far, far better than "a fake" and last far longer. After all, the playing of hymns is probably the primary function of an organ in a small rural church. Remember - we live in an age when "small" is sometimes perceived as a bad word.   As far as who decides these matters, if not organists, then who?   HOWEVER - having said all that, the stoplist that has been circulated = could very well be made into two manuals if space and funding permitted and that would be great, of course.   I think my only point was that well-designed one manual organs are my choice any day over poorly designed two manual organs and especially = "fake" organs.   Philip T. D. Cooper Davis, California       = Russ Greene = <rggreene2@sha To: PIPECHAT-L = <pipechat@pipechat.org> w.ca> cc: = Sent by: Subject: Re: one-manual pipe = organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) <pipechat@pipe = chat.org> = = = 06/19/2002 = 11:28 AM = Please respond = to "PipeChat" = = =         On 6/18/02 4:24 PM, quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > There are MANY *fine* 19th century one-manual organs still in use that > CAN play as much literature as a parish church of modest size would EVER > require.   But why on earth would you spec an organ the size of your example and = limit it to one manual? And why do organists think they are fit to decide that a parish church should live within such arbitrary limitations. Especially when, as we so often state as organists, we are installing an instrument which is going to last effectively forever. Would this not suggest that we should be striving for more versatility, not less?   Cheers, Russ     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:51:53 -0700     Russ - How do you come to this idea? I think its exactly the opposite!! If more organ committees would champion the value of a fine, small pipe organ such as those that are available from the Organ Clearing House, the digital salesmen would have much more competition! We need to get away from always thinking that big is better! And I may add that many church have obtained a small second hand organ and they are very happy with it = and no digital saleman was ever involved!   Philip T. Cooper Davis, California       = Russ Greene = <rggreene2@sha To: PIPECHAT-L = <pipechat@pipechat.org> w.ca> cc: = Sent by: Subject: Re: one-manual pipe = organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) <pipechat@pipe = chat.org> = = = 06/19/2002 = 11:30 AM = Please respond = to "PipeChat" = = =         On 6/18/02 4:50 PM, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov wrote:   > Three cheers for the one manual organ!!! As some of you may know, I = have > been a champion of one manual organs in small parish churches for very long > time. I have had many experiences (as we all have) with rural churches > with you-know-whats where a small one manual organ would have been so > beautiful and ever so usable.   Such sentiments fairly drive the average organ committee into the arms of the digital salesman!   TTFN, Russ     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:01:13 -0500   On 6/19/02 1:46 PM, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov wrote:   > If a small parish church has LIMITED > space and LIMITED funds, then why would a one manual organ not be a very > viable option?   It's just not the only option and, for my money, not the best one.   > Also - why was it acceptable to have one manual organs in > the past but not now? What has changed?   We now have other and better options, which is why more Allens, etc. are installed each year than tiny pipe organs.   > BUT we > forget that an organ is also a musical instrument first and foremost and = it > has a certain job to do.   I agree that a church organ has a certain job to do and can categorically state that a tiny one-manual doesn't do that job as well as other = available options.   > These little > organs (and I have played many of them for recital AND for services) = play > hymns far, far better than "a fake" and last far longer.   An opinion, not a fact, and one that is not upheld by many organists and more particularly congregations. > As far as who decides these matters, if not organists, then who?   Them what pays the money calls the tune in the end.   Cheers, Russ    
(back) Subject: RE: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:05:42 -0400   I assume you are employed by Allen Organs? I don't know, I'm just asking.   -RColasacco  
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:07:12 -0500   On 6/19/02 1:51 PM, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov wrote:   > How do you come to this idea?   Phil, Look at the sales numbers!   Russ    
(back) Subject: Re: Mollers From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:10:56 EDT   Moller experimented briefly, having Christoph Linde (sp?) building = mechanical action instruments in their shop for them. I believe he is now working for =   Klais.   SMG  
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:12:47 -0700     Interesting point of view - NOT one held by many, sorry. You cannot dispute that if you are really interested in SOUND and ARTISTRY then you will certainly not choose an electronic substitute - unless you work for = an electronic organ company.......   Philip T. D. Cooper Davis, CA     = Russ Greene = <rggreene2@sha To: PIPECHAT-L = <pipechat@pipechat.org> w.ca> cc: = Sent by: Subject: Re: one-manual pipe = organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) <pipechat@pipe = chat.org> = = = 06/19/2002 = 12:01 PM = Please respond = to "PipeChat" = = =         On 6/19/02 1:46 PM, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov wrote:   > If a small parish church has LIMITED > space and LIMITED funds, then why would a one manual organ not be a very > viable option?   It's just not the only option and, for my money, not the best one.   > Also - why was it acceptable to have one manual organs in > the past but not now? What has changed?   We now have other and better options, which is why more Allens, etc. are installed each year than tiny pipe organs.   > BUT we > forget that an organ is also a musical instrument first and foremost and it > has a certain job to do.   I agree that a church organ has a certain job to do and can categorically state that a tiny one-manual doesn't do that job as well as other = available options.   > These little > organs (and I have played many of them for recital AND for services) = play > hymns far, far better than "a fake" and last far longer.   An opinion, not a fact, and one that is not upheld by many organists and more particularly congregations.   > As far as who decides these matters, if not organists, then who?   Them what pays the money calls the tune in the end.   Cheers, Russ     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:15:11 -0700     So if the majority of people do a certain thing, then that is what is right? The majority of people listen to all types of bad quality music, does that mean that that's what we all shoud do. I'm not interested in sales numbers, my job is to be concerned with art.   Philip T. D. Cooper Davis, CA       = Russ Greene = <rggreene2@sha To: PIPECHAT-L = <pipechat@pipechat.org> w.ca> cc: = Sent by: Subject: Re: one-manual pipe = organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) <pipechat@pipe = chat.org> = = = 06/19/2002 = 12:07 PM = Please respond = to "PipeChat" = = =         On 6/19/02 1:51 PM, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov wrote:   > How do you come to this idea?   Phil, Look at the sales numbers!   Russ     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Felix Hell's Schools Concert in Melbourne, Austraila From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:50:18 -0400   Dear Friends,   Early this month, Felix Hell gave a concert for Melbourne students in the Town Hall. Listmember Hugh Drogemuller was lucky enough to be there, and = has written the following report about the event. Hugh is travelling extensively, and is temporarily signed off the lists. He has therefore = asked if I would post his report, which I am pleased to do. It's a cheering = story. Cheers, Malcolm Wechsler   Hugh writes:   Felix Hell presented a concert in the Melbourne Town Hall on the morning = of Tuesday June 4 for more than 500 Melbourne school children ages from about 12 to 17. The concert was organized by the Victorian Society of Organists and was generously sponsored by Pioneer Electronics Australia whose CEO = was present at the concert.   Imagine the scene of a large Town Hall concert chamber; about eight = groups of students from single sex schools in their smart uniforms; boys in grey pants, white shirt and tie and school blazer and girls in white blouse , skirt and school blazer; the 1929 Hill, Norman and Beard organ standing front and centre above and behind the stage and the Schantz built portable console placed on the main floor just ahead of the stage and the slight built, still growing Felix sitting on the bench.   Felix played a program taken from his standard repertoire featuring mostly Bach plus a piece from each Vierne, Widor and Liszt. I am not competent to comment on Felix's playing of each piece on a " blow by blow" basis. This was my first experience of hearing him play and the overwhelming = impression was one of a musicality not often found in someone so youthful. No too = loud, too fast playing from this young man! I was seated in a particularly advantageous position to observe Felix's technique. In common with the = very best players he makes it look so easy with a smooth fluid style. Nothing = he did ever appeared awkward. As an encore he played a theatre organ transcription of a piece the name of which I did not catch. This showed = off a number of the warm, thick, syrupy colors that you would expect of this organ but that you would not hear in the repertoire that Felix played.   Following, Felix engaged in an informal question and answer session in = which he showed himself to be a fine communicator with his peers. In my view = this was almost as important as the music he played since he was able to answer = a great variety of questions about his life as a student, his interests away from the organ( flying, skate boarding and motorcycling) and, of course = the organ. He frequently went to the console to explain some basic function = of the instrument .   I was greatly satisfied by the fact that here was an Organist group with = an enlightened sponsor that did what was necessary to expose a large number = of young people to the organ and to one of their peers who has the ability to demonstrate it so well and communicate at their level. If only two percent of those present had their interest piqued enough to explore the = instrument further think what this might do for the future of the organ in Melbourne? In my view organist groups have no higher calling than to pass their knowledge and understanding of the instrument along to the next = generation. Congratulations to all who were involved in this most worthwhile endeavor.   Hugh Drogemuller   London Ont. Canada   Presently vacationing/ babysitting in Melbourne, Australia