PipeChat Digest #2923 - Thursday, June 20, 2002
 
Re: one-manual PO vs. you-know-whats (long and cynical)
  by <MyrtleBeachMusic@aol.com>
Re: One Manual Instruments
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
small rooms, organs, and speakers-HELP!
  by <Pologaptommy@aol.com>
Re: One Manual Instruments
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Digital creativity
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: one-manual PO vs. you-know-whats (long and cynical) From: <MyrtleBeachMusic@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:28:14 EDT     --part1_160.f73a9d8.2a42b3de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 6/19/2002 3:14:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov writes:     > Interesting point of view - NOT one held by many, sorry. You cannot > dispute that if you are really interested in SOUND and ARTISTRY then you > will certainly not choose an electronic substitute - unless you work for = an > electronic organ company....... > > Philip T. D. Cooper > Davis, CA   NO! NO! NO! The REALITY is that, while a one manual pipe organ might be 'nice luxury' for a small, small church, these churches have such proportionately tiny budgets (my home church where I grew up, for = instance, has an annual budget of $24,000) that it's just not even practical to = raise the 3x the annual budget for a minimal pipe organ. If there is a large = gift from someone who is well off.....wonderful! However, these churches tend = to be located in rural farming country where there is no such animal.   These churches have a difficult time even keeping up their buildings let alone carrying out effective ministries. The prominent majority of these churches which do have a pipe organ which was put in "back in the day" are = in pathetic disrepair. On the rare occasion that they do get rebuilt, there = is such a "local yokel" mentality in rural areas that 99% of the time the = person to do the work will be the less than respected guy who tunes it. I've = been to countless dedications of these rebuilt things (even played a few of = these concerts) and the results are laughable.   My home church, mentioned above, had one of those pipe organs (18 rks.) = from back in the day that was in deplorable condition. After getting rebuild proposals from REPUTABLE firms that came in at 5x their annual budget, = they elected to put in a very large two-manual Allen for 1/3 of the cost. This =   organ, while not something most of you would play a concert on, gives a = grand sound that the pipe organ never did even in it's day because it was small = and had nothing over 4' pitch (except with supers on). The church takes GREAT =   pride in their instrument and has a yearly concert to show it off. The community comes out in mass and fills the 175 seat nave every year....and = has since 1988 when it was installed. These people don't have music degrees = and don't go to concerts in the city. To them, they ARE hearing a big pipe = organ sound --- and they LOVE IT!   Also, in these areas there are, all too often, simply no organists to be found. Ever since I went off to college several years ago, most services = are played by a MIDI sequencer using disks containing voluntaries and the = whole hymnal (created by me) and operated by a lay person. When an organist is available, they have someone come play, but that's not the case most of = the year. How many one manual trackers are equipped with a MIDI system??   I could go on and on listing realistic and practical reasons why small churches rarely put in pipe organs, but I think I've made my point. We = (the professionals) can sit here pontificating all day about the joys of a one manual organ and how sinful it is to even consider a digital instrument, = but the reality is that this is a pipedream of the literal sense.   Jeremy   P.S. - I'm sure you all would, in the name of "artistry", give up your current church jobs and move out into the cornfields to be the "artist" on =   this one manual gem, right? Of course. HA!   --part1_160.f73a9d8.2a42b3de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 6/19/2002 3:14:34 PM Eastern = Daylight Time, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Interesting point = of view - NOT one held by many, sorry.&nbsp; You cannot<BR> dispute that if you are really interested in SOUND and ARTISTRY then you<BR> will certainly not choose an electronic substitute - unless you work for = an<BR> electronic organ company.......<BR> <BR> Philip T. D. Cooper<BR> Davis, CA</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> NO! NO! NO!&nbsp; The REALITY is that, while a one manual pipe organ might = be 'nice luxury' for a small, small church, these churches have such = proportionately tiny budgets (my home church where I grew up, for = instance, has an annual budget of $24,000) that it's just not even = practical to raise the 3x the annual budget for a minimal pipe = organ.&nbsp; If there is a large gift from someone who is well = off.....wonderful!&nbsp; However, these churches tend to be located in = rural farming country where there is no such animal.<BR> <BR> These churches have a difficult time even keeping up their buildings let = alone carrying out effective ministries.&nbsp; The prominent majority of = these churches which do have a pipe organ which was put in "back in the = day" are in pathetic disrepair.&nbsp; On the rare occasion that they do = get rebuilt, there is such a "local yokel" mentality in rural areas that = 99% of the time the person to do the work will be the less than respected = guy who tunes it.&nbsp; I've been to countless dedications of these = rebuilt things (even played a few of these concerts) and the results are = laughable.<BR> <BR> My home church, mentioned above, had one of those pipe organs (18 rks.) = from back in the day that was in deplorable condition.&nbsp; After getting = rebuild proposals from REPUTABLE firms that came in at 5x their annual = budget, they elected to put in a very large two-manual Allen for 1/3 of = the cost.&nbsp; This organ, while not something most of you would play a = concert on, gives a grand sound that the pipe organ never did even in it's = day because it was small and had nothing over 4' pitch (except with supers = on).&nbsp; The church takes GREAT pride in their instrument and has a = yearly concert to show it off.&nbsp; The community comes out in mass and = fills the 175 seat nave every year....and has since 1988 when it was = installed.&nbsp; These people don't have music degrees and don't go to = concerts in the city.&nbsp; To them, they ARE hearing a big pipe organ = sound --- and they LOVE IT!<BR> <BR> Also, in these areas there are, all too often, simply no organists to be = found.&nbsp; Ever since I went off to college several years ago, most = services are played by a MIDI sequencer using disks containing voluntaries = and the whole hymnal (created by me) and operated by a lay person.&nbsp; = When an organist is available, they have someone come play, but that's not = the case most of the year.&nbsp; How many one manual trackers are equipped = with a MIDI system??<BR> <BR> I could go on and on listing realistic and practical reasons why small = churches rarely put in pipe organs, but I think I've made my point.&nbsp; = We (the professionals) can sit here pontificating all day about the joys = of a one manual organ and how sinful it is to even consider a digital = instrument, but the reality is that this is a pipedream of the literal = sense.<BR> <BR> Jeremy<BR> <BR> P.S. - I'm sure you all would, in the name of "artistry", give up your = current church jobs and move out into the cornfields to be the "artist" on = this one manual gem, right?&nbsp; Of course.&nbsp; HA!</FONT></HTML>   --part1_160.f73a9d8.2a42b3de_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: One Manual Instruments From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:26:10 -0500   Just adding my bit .. the first day of this next OHS Convention in Chicago we will be hearing an 1888 organ attributed to Emil Witzmann... I head = this organ in 1984 at the the first OHS Convention I attended.. the sound of = that organ is still in my head.. can't wait to hear it again.....one manual, = nine ranks... I think this organ sealed my relationship to the OHS.   Sand Lawn   >      
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:00:50 +0300   Russ Greene's post speaks a lot of sense. On the question of cost, my = guess is that the starting price for an acceptable electronic organ is around =A35,000 ($8,000) - and a good one =A312,000 ($20,000). A two manual 20 = stop pipe organ (new) would be about =A3100,000. Larger instruments move into = the stratosphere. Given a 30 year life for the electronic, on a cost basis you can replace the electronic every 30 years without too much financial = strain. Yes, I believe there will be a continuing demand for Chateau Lafitte - but many people will be happy with "vin ordinaire". John Foss  
(back) Subject: small rooms, organs, and speakers-HELP! From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:27:44 EDT   Hi all! At the church, where I am organist, we have a lovely 100 seat = chapel, which we use for Sunday evening services, and Wednesday services. The chapel, which has excellent acoustics due to the coved ceilings, contains = a 2 manual Digital Allen Organ, self contained. This organ, no matter how = many stops you use at a time, NEVER has enough sound accompany the often-full room. Now, I would DIE to have a nice small pipe organ in the chapel, and =   who knows it may happen (who knows, maybe if we get a new sanctuary organ soon, we can stick the old pipe organ in the chapel.) But for now, we = need to work with what we have, until we can conjure up an excuse get something =   newer in there. But anyway, there are NO speaker chambers, no place FOR them, and certainly no place to put built-in external speakers; as the = lady who built the chapel has very strict rules about any changes made to the room. I have in my garage, 8 standard size Allen speaker cabinets (yes the huge ones) that I WANT our of my garage! So I decided to donate some of = them to the church, for use in the chapel. BUT they are CERTAINLY not designed =   for exposed use, and they need to be in good taste if they are going to be =   exposed. So here is the question: What could I do about getting a = fuller, nicer sound in the chapel, without the use of built-in speakers? Is there = a way that I could trade the speakers that I DO have, for ones that are designed for exposed use? Any information yall have would certainly be very helpful. Email me personally if you want.   Thanks Josh White FUMC, Graham TX www.fumcgraham.org; FUMC organ pics: www.geocities.com/polo_gap_tommie  
(back) Subject: Re: One Manual Instruments From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:53:28 +1200   Sand, We used to correspond many years ago. How are you these days? It must be about 20 years since we last wrote. Ross -----Original Message----- From: Sand Lawn <glawn@jam.rr.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Thursday, June 20, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: Re: One Manual Instruments     >Just adding my bit .. the first day of this next OHS Convention in = Chicago >we will be hearing an 1888 organ attributed to Emil Witzmann... I head = this >organ in 1984 at the the first OHS Convention I attended.. the sound of that >organ is still in my head.. can't wait to hear it again.....one manual, nine >ranks... I think this organ sealed my relationship to the OHS. > >Sand Lawn > >> > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Digital creativity From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:43:53 +0100   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0053_01C21836.9B7DAAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Good to see (and hear) that anything which stirs the soul of just one =3D member of a congregation is not 'banned' from performance....however =3D (and if this is politically uncorrect - "well frankly, I couldn't give a = =3D damn") 'aboriginals'...? in Canada ... ?   Harry (Presumably 'aboriginal' in my own country ?) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Greene <rggreene2@shaw.ca> To: PIPECHAT-L <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 18 June 2002 23:16 Subject: Re: Digital creativity =3D20 =3D20 On 6/18/02 6:39 AM, Rodney Clooney wrote: =3D20 =3D20 How about some of those good ole "blood hymns" that we don't =3D sing anymore? The "Christian soldiers" have been remanded to their =3D barracks as well (tongue-in-cheek; yes, I'm aware of the PC = theology).=3D20 =3D20 =3D20 After years of being unofficially banned, Canadian Anglicans were =3D surprised to find =3D93Onward Christian Soldiers=3D94 restored to them in = =3D our new Common Praise hymnbook. It was going to be dropped but an =3D uprising from our aboriginal population saved the day! =3D20 Russ=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0053_01C21836.9B7DAAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1 =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type><TITLE>Re: Digital creativity</TITLE> <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Good to see (and hear) that = anything =3D which stirs=3D20 the soul of just one member of a congregation is not 'banned' from=3D20 performance....however (and if this is politically uncorrect - =3D &quot;well=3D20 frankly, I couldn't give a damn&quot;) 'aboriginals'...? in Canada&nbsp; = =3D ....=3D20 ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Harry</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>(Presumably 'aboriginal' in my own country =3D ?)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = =3D 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><B>-----Original =3D Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=3D20 </B>Russ Greene &lt;<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:rggreene2@shaw.ca">rggreene2@shaw.ca</A>&gt;<BR><B>To:=3D2= 0 </B>PIPECHAT-L &lt;<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A>&gt;<BR><B= =3D >Date:=3D20 </B>18 June 2002 23:16<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Digital=3D20 creativity<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3D3DHelvetica>On 6/18/02 =3D 6:39 AM,=3D20 Rodney Clooney wrote:<BR><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3D3DArial>How about some of those good ole=3D20 &quot;blood hymns&quot; that we don't sing anymore? &nbsp;The=3D20 &quot;Christian soldiers&quot; have been remanded to their =3D barracks as=3D20 well (tongue-in-cheek; yes, I'm aware of the PC theology).=3D20 <BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3D3DHelvetica><BR>After years of = =3D being=3D20 unofficially banned, Canadian Anglicans were surprised to find =3D &ldquo;Onward=3D20 Christian Soldiers&rdquo; restored to them in our new Common = Praise=3D20 hymnbook. It was going to be dropped but an uprising from our =3D aboriginal=3D20 population saved the day!<BR><BR>Russ =3D </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0053_01C21836.9B7DAAC0--