PipeChat Digest #2924 - Thursday, June 20, 2002
Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin)
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
go east?
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
Dr. Hall Tours the UK, Part Two (LONG)
  by "Jonathan B. Hall" <jonathan@jonathanbhall.com>
One Manual Pipe Organs
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Europe Organ Crawl
  by "LAMAR BOULET" <lmar@hotmail.com>
Re: Europe Organ Crawl
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net>
Inexpensive Pipe organs for Rural Churches
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: St. Gervais, Paris, Versailles, Vernon
  by <WiegandCJ@aol.com>
Re: one-manual PO vs. you-know-whats (long and cynical)
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>
Re: One Manual Instruments
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>
Re: The One-Manual Market
  by <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov>

(back) Subject: Re: one-manual pipe organs vs. you-know-whats (grin) From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:35:12 -0400     > > On 6/18/02 4:24 PM, quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > > > > > There are MANY *fine* 19th century one-manual organs still in > use that > > > CAN play as much literature as a parish church of modest size > would EVER > > > require. > >   I would point out that John Bishop has not one, but SEVEN very nice one manual instruments available at Http://www.organclearinghouse.com   The MOST expensive ( fully restored ) is only $6.500 per rank.     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: go east? From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:44:58 -0400   <<If I were younger and starting out, rather in my last years, I would go = east where the services are still traditional and organists are still = respected members of the staff. But, where do we go from here? Lee>>   interesting. i am in the east, but i was thinking i would have to go = elsewhere so i could find a place where organists are "still respected = members of the staff"... merry  
(back) Subject: Dr. Hall Tours the UK, Part Two (LONG) From: "Jonathan B. Hall" <jonathan@jonathanbhall.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 06:26:14 -0700 (PDT)   Dr. Hall=92s Tour of the United Kingdom in the Year of Grace 2002   Day Four: Dr. Hall Flies to London and Mispronounces =93Holborn=94     On the morning of June 5, I awoke none the worse (almost) for the Purple Nasty and Te Beag scotch. Since Simon=92s car was in the shop, it was decided I would take a quick and easy bus to the airport. On packing, I discovered I was one organ shoe short! After carefully checking around, I discovered that the shopping bag which I=92d used to carry my music and shoes home from the recital had a large hole!   Where, oh where, was my poor missing organ shoe, all alone in Scotland? I bought that pair in Indianapolis=97where it is blessedly easy to buy shoes, unlike New York=97and I had two recitals left to play! Yes, I can play in my stocking feet; and sometimes I like to just to piss off the hopelessly orthodox; but I didn=92t fancy being forced to do it!   Oh, dear. Well, as we walked to the bus stop, we kept our eyes open. The shoe could be anywhere=97in the cathedral, in the pub, on the street, up some drunkard=92s kilt, who knew? Miraculously, as we turned the first corner, Simon said =93Look, is that it?=94 =85and there, all alone, = on the sidewalk, right-side-up, near the store that sells batter-dipped and deep-fried Mars Bars, was my poor, brave, lonely organ shoe, having kept vigil on the streets of Edinburgh all night long. I snatched it up with a great whoop of joy.   Onward to the bus. Simon and I had a quick =91fry up=92 which is the English term for their full hot breakfast=97first cousin to our two eggs over easy, bacon, hash browns and toast=97but one egg, always sunny side up, two meats, baked beans, roasted tomato, and in Scotland a potato scone, which is a really brilliant invention.   So we got to the bus, and we parted with genuine friendship. Simon motioned for me to go to the upper decker=85which I did, and it turned out to be the only bus ride I would take in the UK. The drive to the airport was very pleasant and quick.   Once in Heathrow, I found the Underground station and figured out the way it works, which is not too different from New York=92s subways. I was at first confused by the concept of a =93return trip,=94 and that the = lines are named rather than numbered. (There are some unreconstructed New Yorkers who still call my daily Number 6 train the =93East Side IRT=94 or =93The Lexington Local.=94 I tend to just call it =93the green train,=94 = which is blatant heresy.) In London, one takes the Central Line, or the District, or the Hammersmith, or the Jubilee, or something like that. It isn=92t hard to get used to if you=92ve used mass transit in New York (or Chicago, or Washington, or Paris=85.) and I was soon on my way. One thing the Tube is is EXPENSIVE. One ride costs 1.60 (that=92s one pound sixty pence) which is about 2.40 American. The Subway in NY costs a buck fifty. Also, the trains are tiny compared to NYC trains. However, the stations tend to be very clean, and I had an abiding sense of being in a de facto war memorial=97thinking how brave Londoners lived in the tubes during the Blitz. This really struck me very forcefully.   I made it to All Hallows by the Tower of London by noon, in the rain, and met Jonathan Melling, the organist of the church.   All Hallows is the Sister Parish of my own parish, The Church of the Epiphany in Manhattan. The Vicar (what all Episcopal churches in America call =93the rector=94) is the Ven. Peter A. Delaney, Archdeacon of London. Fr. Delaney, a longtime friend of my Rector, Canon Mullins, has been vicar of All Hallows for over twenty-five years, though the unending duties of running the Archdeaconry have necessitated the hiring of an associate Vicar, Fr. Driscoll.   All Hallows was founded as the Saxon Abbey of Barking around 675, though there has been a house on the site since Roman days=97a first-century mosaic floor exists in the undercroft! The church saw the baptism of William Penn and the marriage of John Quincy Adams, and survived the Great Fire. In 1940, though, Hitler=92s bombs did what 1300 years of sublunar existence could not, and nearly totally destroyed the church. Sir Christopher Wren=92s famous tower collapsed, and the church where Albert Schweitzer had played and recorded was little more than an open space along the Thames=85for the first time since the town was called Londinium.   Well, the church was rebuilt=97and the Roman floor discovered in the process! Some of the ancient Abbey of Barking still survives=97there is a seventh-century arch left in the church=97but all else is relatively new. The organ is a 1957 Harrison and Harrison. This is a fine three-manual organ, with an old-fashioned pair of setter boards on either side. These are discreetly hidden by Georgian panels. The fa=E7ade is whitewashed and in historic style. Over the gallery rail, hanging like a Positiv, are the Royal Arms of Charles II. There are only divisional pistons, with ONE general, marked =93GENERAL=94 and off to the right under the Great clavier. Thanks be to God, the console dimensions seemed to follow AGO specifications, with a comfortable pedal board (going up to G) and the like.   Over the altar is a huge window in plain glass, in small square panels. I=92d naively call it a =93Quaker Meeting House style=94 window. Through this one has a view of the Thames.   The organist, Professor Melling, is a charming man and a very fine organist indeed. He is a thoughtful person, very much at peace, and this quality came through in his Sunday playing=97as, no doubt, in the weekly forty-five minute recitals at which he pours out his seemingly infinite repertoire. I intend to have Jonathan play at my church next year. You should plan to visit and hear him. He took me to lunch by the Tower of London, in the rain, and we sat and talked in the shadow of Tower Bridge. (That=92s the famous bridge that Americans tend to call =93London Bridge,=94 though it isn=92t.)   After lunch, I practiced for an hour or two, meeting the Verger, Terry, in the process. Terry is a lifelong resident of London, indeed the City of London, which is the old square mile somewhat analogous to Lower Manhattan=85the part of London that has the famous =93Lord Mayor=94 = as opposed to the plain old Mayor of greater London.   Anyway, Terry is a riot. He launched into a lesson in British English: =93You see, sir, in England I don=92t need Viagra to keep me pecker = up!=94 he said. =93How nice for you,=94 I replied.   Turns out that =93to keep one=92s pecker up=94 simply means =93not to lose heart.=94   Terry would be a terrific New Yorker.   It was to Terry that I committed my linguistic gaffe when I told him my hotel was near the Holborn tube station. I said =93Holborn,=94 = pronouncing it Whole-Born. He giggled and said =93You mean Hubn.=94   =93Hubn?=94   =93No, no, HUBN.=94   =93Ah, Hubn.=94   =93Right!=94   So I stood corrected.   Anyhow, it came time to check in at my hotel in Bloomsbury Square. So I took the tube to Hubn and walked to it. It=92s called The Bonnington and it is a very nice, non-horribly-touristy place and I got a decent rate on Travelocity. And it=92s in a pretty groovy area a block from the British Museum, and Hubn Station is a real, um, hub for the Underground=97very convenient.   This is long enough. More anon. ----fin----------------     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: One Manual Pipe Organs From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:54:50 -0500   When you look at some of the absolute gems on the market right now--one manuals by Erben, Hook, Hook & Hastings, Jardine, et. al., I think a smaller church on a tight budget that needs a service instrument for worship, not a recital instrument, would be wondrously well served by a quality, beautiful, durable one manual. I'd take it any day over an electronic two manual.   And I'd certainly disagree that a 4-manual is easier to play. Small churches are in the realm of untrained to little trained organists in many cases....a big 4-decker is absolutely intimidating. On the one-manual, registration can almost be intuitive--either a certain combination works or it doesn't.     Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen        
(back) Subject: Europe Organ Crawl From: "LAMAR BOULET" <lmar@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:51:39 +0000   <html><div style=3D'background-color:'><DIV>Some 20 to 25 yrs ago, there = was a person in Michigan who headed up groups to tour Europe, checking out = pipe organs.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>Is there anyone doing this type of trip at present?&nbsp;&nbsp; I = went on one of these tours back then, before east and west Germany became = one state.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>Interest is here now for another trip.&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>If U know of such a plan,&nbsp; sent direct to me or to the = site.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>Thanks&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lamar Boulet</DIV></div><br = clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a = href=3D'http://g.msn.com/1HM505401/44'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br></ht= ml>  
(back) Subject: Re: Europe Organ Crawl From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:00:45 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0036_01C21838.F6ADDDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable     ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: LAMAR BOULET=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:51 AM Subject: Europe Organ Crawl     Some 20 to 25 yrs ago, there was a person in Michigan who headed up =3D groups to tour Europe, checking out pipe organs. =3D20   Dirk Bakhuysen? or something like that?. =3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0036_01C21838.F6ADDDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dlmar@hotmail.com href=3D3D"mailto:lmar@hotmail.com">LAMAR = =3D BOULET</A>=3D20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 20, 2002 = =3D 8:51=3D20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Europe Organ =3D Crawl</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Some 20 to 25 yrs ago, there was a person in Michigan who headed = =3D up=3D20 groups to tour Europe, checking out pipe organs.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Dirk Bakhuysen? or something like that?.&nbsp;=3D20 </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0036_01C21838.F6ADDDA0--    
(back) Subject: Inexpensive Pipe organs for Rural Churches From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:05:38 -0500   Just in the last four or five months, I've seen several lovely 1 and 2 manual trackers rebuilt in the last fifteen years that are on the market for $10,000 or less--in some cases, less than $5,000. Yes, you'd have to move them and install them, but for the money you'd get quality and durability and real pipe organ sound. Why were they on the market? Most of them were purchased by growing churches that used them in temporary settings and when they built new buildings or expanded their sanctuaries, they needed a bigger instrument.   The flat reality is that churches who look around patiently can get good pipe organs in excellent condition for very little money--LESS than they'd spend on Allen, Rodgers, et. al.   Dennis Steckley   Ich liebe meine Katzen          
(back) Subject: Re: St. Gervais, Paris, Versailles, Vernon From: <WiegandCJ@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:12:09 EDT   I hope you will find here what you are looking for:   http://www.culture.fr/culture/orgues/buffets/buf_versailles.html http://www.orgue-france.com/sommaire/index.php?url=3D/inventaire/afficher.p= hp?nu   m_orgue=3D314 http://www.kernpipeorgan.com/france/vernon/vernon.htm http://sgorgue.free.fr/fr/fact_pp.html http://sgorgue.free.fr/fr/francp.html http://panther.bsc.edu/~jhcook/OrgHist/history/hist030.htm   Carl  
(back) Subject: Re: one-manual PO vs. you-know-whats (long and cynical) From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:12:23 -0700     I still think that many people today have it in their minds that we jun= t HAVE to have some bigger, something louder and that that equates to something better and all I'm saying is that that isn't ALWAYS the case!= !! Bigger and louder is NOT always better!!! And as far as it being a pipedream - how do you explain the many churches that have obtained a s= mall pipe organ (often from the Organ Clearing House) at a reasonable budget= for their church and they LOVE IT as well??   And as far as being willing to play a one manual "gem" as you put it, Y= ES I WOULD - GLADLY AND I WOULD NEVER EVER CONSIDER BEING AN ORGANIST WITH A= N ELECTRONIC!!!!!!!!   PTDC     = =20 MyrtleBeachMus = =20 ic@aol.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org = =20 Sent by: cc: = =20 <pipechat@pipe Subject: Re: one-manual PO= vs. you-know-whats (long and cynical) =20 chat.org> = =20 = =20 = =20 06/19/2002 = =20 09:28 PM = =20 Please respond = =20 to "PipeChat" = =20 = =20 = =20         In a message dated 6/19/2002 3:14:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov writes:     Interesting point of view - NOT one held by many, sorry.=A0 You cannot dispute that if you are really interested in SOUND and ARTISTRY then yo= u will certainly not choose an electronic substitute - unless you work fo= r an electronic organ company.......   Philip T. D. Cooper Davis, CA   NO! NO! NO!=A0 The REALITY is that, while a one manual pipe organ might= be 'nice luxury' for a small, small church, these churches have such proportionately tiny budgets (my home church where I grew up, for insta= nce, has an annual budget of $24,000) that it's just not even practical to r= aise the 3x the annual budget for a minimal pipe organ.=A0 If there is a lar= ge gift from someone who is well off.....wonderful!=A0 However, these chur= ches tend to be located in rural farming country where there is no such anim= al.   These churches have a difficult time even keeping up their buildings le= t alone carrying out effective ministries.=A0 The prominent majority of t= hese churches which do have a pipe organ which was put in "back in the day" = are in pathetic disrepair.=A0 On the rare occasion that they do get rebuilt= , there is such a "local yokel" mentality in rural areas that 99% of the = time the person to do the work will be the less than respected guy who tunes= it. I've been to countless dedications of these rebuilt things (even played= a few of these concerts) and the results are laughable.   My home church, mentioned above, had one of those pipe organs (18 rks.)=   from back in the day that was in deplorable condition.=A0 After getting=   rebuild proposals from REPUTABLE firms that came in at 5x their annual budget, they elected to put in a very large two-manual Allen for 1/3 of= the cost.=A0 This organ, while not something most of you would play a conce= rt on, gives a grand sound that the pipe organ never did even in it's day beca= use it was small and had nothing over 4' pitch (except with supers on).=A0 = The church takes GREAT pride in their instrument and has a yearly concert t= o show it off.=A0 The community comes out in mass and fills the 175 seat = nave every year....and has since 1988 when it was installed.=A0 These people= don't have music degrees and don't go to concerts in the city.=A0 To them, th= ey ARE hearing a big pipe organ sound --- and they LOVE IT!   Also, in these areas there are, all too often, simply no organists to b= e found.=A0 Ever since I went off to college several years ago, most serv= ices are played by a MIDI sequencer using disks containing voluntaries and t= he whole hymnal (created by me) and operated by a lay person.=A0 When an organist is available, they have someone come play, but that's not the = case most of the year.=A0 How many one manual trackers are equipped with a M= IDI system??   I could go on and on listing realistic and practical reasons why small churches rarely put in pipe organs, but I think I've made my point.=A0 = We (the professionals) can sit here pontificating all day about the joys o= f a one manual organ and how sinful it is to even consider a digital instrument, but the reality is that this is a pipedream of the literal sense.   Jeremy   P.S. - I'm sure you all would, in the name of "artistry", give up your current church jobs and move out into the cornfields to be the "artist"= on this one manual gem, right?=A0 Of course.=A0 HA!   =      
(back) Subject: Re: One Manual Instruments From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:13:02 -0700     There you have it!   PTDC       = "Sand Lawn" = <glawn@jam.rr. To: "PipeChat" = <pipechat@pipechat.org> com> cc: = Sent by: Subject: Re: One Manual = Instruments <pipechat@pipe = chat.org> = = = 06/19/2002 = 10:26 PM = Please respond = to "PipeChat" = = =         Just adding my bit .. the first day of this next OHS Convention in Chicago we will be hearing an 1888 organ attributed to Emil Witzmann... I head = this organ in 1984 at the the first OHS Convention I attended.. the sound of that organ is still in my head.. can't wait to hear it again.....one manual, nine ranks... I think this organ sealed my relationship to the OHS.   Sand Lawn   >       "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org          
(back) Subject: Re: The One-Manual Market From: <Phil_Cooper@dot.ca.gov> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:21:33 -0700     NOT ENTIRELY TRUE! The one manual organ will play a great deal of literature. I have already stated that in my experience of 25+ years playing recitals on small organs I have NEVER been wanting in genuine = organ literature. Its just that many of these pieces are not the usual "big tunes" that organists seem to feel they HAVE to play or there is something wrong with them. One of the posters here listed many, many works that sound beautifully on a one manual organ and I guarantee you that the list would be much larger if it were given more thought. I am not INSISTING on a one manual when two are possible - I am merely stating that one manual organs are a VIABLE OPTION in cases where the church is small and their space and budget are LIMITED. That is all I have ever said.   PTDC       = TubaMagna@aol. = com To: pipechat@pipechat.org = Sent by: cc: = <pipechat@pipe Subject: The One-Manual = Market chat.org> = = = 06/19/2002 = 04:46 PM = Please respond = to "PipeChat" = = =         The market for one-manual pipe organs is limited, simply because it is a creature that will not play MOST of the literature that attracts people to the pipe organ in the first place. I'm not even going to try to come up with an analogy here, like a family of four trying to get by with a motorcycle. The fact remains that what attracts people to a pipe organ is literature that is conceived for more than one manual. If a congregation is going to invest in a pipe organ, and they have raised enough money for an efficient one-manual instrument, a good pipe organ builder will encourage them to raise just a bit more and get themselves = the extra one or two stops and the second keyboard. We all know the laundry list of arguments for one-manual instruments. We are all aware of the body of literature for one manual. We all know that a one-manual pipe organ can and will support hymn singing. But the list of things that a single-keyboard pipe organ CANNOT do is longer than what it CAN do. Once you've paid for the mechanical infrastructure of the instrument, the price per stop decreases as one adds. The cost/benefit analysis points toward going for the second manual. Some consultants might question the = abilities and intentions of an organist who INSISTS on a one-manual instrument when two are possible. Will a one-manual pipe organ help or hurt the cause?   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org