PipeChat Digest #2763 - Monday, March 18, 2002
 
New Book: 13 Essays about the Organ & Music
  by "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org>
Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance
  by "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu>
Re: cockups< Hammond Humour>
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Holy Week
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: cockups< Hammond Humour>
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: engaging and disengaging...
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
Re: engaging and disengaging...
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance, and 9/11
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Decorated pipes, once again
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
Re: St. Agatha's and Joan Lippincott too
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
Service List - Passion Sunday - St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church,  
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance, and 9/11
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
OFF-TOPIC: Easter Vigil
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: New Book: 13 Essays about the Organ & Music From: "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:02:02 -0500   OHS is now stocking the very nice "IAO Millennium Book," edited by Paul Hale. This book collects the penetrating observations of distinguished leaders in the organ world in 13 essays:   Peter Williams and John Butt present the prospect of a "post-authentic" future for organ performance. Thomas Murray observes an international reawakening of true romanticism in organ playing and building. Kevin Boyer sheds new light on the whole range of 20th-century organ music. Stephen Bicknell rejoices in the inspiring quality of contemporary organbuilding = in the USA. Nicholas Thistlethwaite visits landmarks of 20th-century organbuilding, and John Norman predicts a century ahead. Patrick Burns brings a new impression of the Atlantic City organ, the world's largest. David Briggs writes on improvisation and Roy Bingham on theatre-organ playing. Two writers examine church music: Lionel Dakers surveys the 20th century and Richard Shephard discusses today's demands on church music composers. Terry Hoyle traces the history of organ recordings.   The book can be ordered for $19.95 from http://www.ohscatalog.org   Bill    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance From: "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:19:27 -0500       --On Monday, March 18, 2002 13:15 -0800 quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > I suppose one could blame "the times" ... but then I read the old hymn: >   Here in Michigan, schools are out, folks go away. Good Friday is a work day except if you work for the automotive companies. I can't get off to = go to afternoon services because I don't have children. The employees with children get vacation in order to go to Disneyworld, Disneyland, cruises, etc.   Fortunately, the church where I work has an evening service on Good = Friday; otherwise, we would have to get a sub to play. Even so, I barely make it on time!   MARGARETE THOMSEN ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` Mac OS/Comm Consultant : Outside of a dog, a book is http://www.umich.edu/~mthomsen : man's best friend; mthomsen@umich.edu : inside of a dog, it's too : dark to read!  
(back) Subject: Re: cockups< Hammond Humour> From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:19:54 EST     --part1_14b.aab599d.29c7c20a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/18/02 5:52:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RonSeverin@aol.com =   writes:     > I just couldn't resist, I had to make sure they were > really dead before sending them off to their fate. I always heard that = you > couldn't kill one and I did have to make sure. :) >   I've heard you have to drive a stake through their roter!!! ;-)   Bruce Cornely < Cremona502@cs.com > with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & = Dewi < http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely >   --part1_14b.aab599d.29c7c20a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 3/18/02 5:52:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RonSeverin@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I just couldn't = resist, I had to make sure they were <BR>really dead before sending them off to their fate. I always heard that = you <BR>couldn't kill one and I did have to make sure. :) <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I've heard you have to drive a stake through their roter!!! = &nbsp;&nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR> Bruce Cornely &lt; Cremona502@cs.com &gt;<I> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres <I>&nbsp;</I>and meet the Baskerbeagles: = &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi <BR>&lt; http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + = http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely &nbsp;&gt;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_14b.aab599d.29c7c20a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Holy Week From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:35:33 EST     --part1_128.e43a714.29c7c5b5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/18/02 8:37:14 PM !!!First Boot!!!, = basset3@citlink.net writes:     > Nail 'em while they are in the pews.   What an unfortunate analogy!   Some people are performance motivated. I really miss having all of the services of Holy Week in sequence. I really don't like the crucifixion read on the Sunday before Easter.   Unfortunately, the more the church conforms the more people just walk away = in disgust.   Bruce Cornely < Cremona502@cs.com > with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & = Dewi < http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely >   --part1_128.e43a714.29c7c5b5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 3/18/02 8:37:14 PM !!!First Boot!!!, basset3@citlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Nail 'em while = they are in the pews. &nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>What an unfortunate analogy! <BR> <BR>Some people are performance motivated. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I really miss = having all of the services of Holy Week in sequence. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I = really don't like the crucifixion read on the Sunday before Easter. <BR> <BR>Unfortunately, the more the church conforms the more people just walk = away in disgust. <BR> <BR> Bruce Cornely &lt; Cremona502@cs.com &gt;<I> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres <I>&nbsp;</I>and meet the Baskerbeagles: = &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi <BR>&lt; http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + = http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely &nbsp;&gt;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_128.e43a714.29c7c5b5_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: cockups< Hammond Humour> From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:08:58 +1200   Is your word "roter" a typo for "aorta"? Ross -----Original Message----- From: Cremona502@cs.com <Cremona502@cs.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 10:21 AM Subject: Re: cockups< Hammond Humour>     In a message dated 3/18/02 5:52:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, = RonSeverin@aol.com writes:       I just couldn't resist, I had to make sure they were really dead before sending them off to their fate. I always heard that you couldn't kill one and I did have to make sure. :)       I've heard you have to drive a stake through their roter!!! ;-)   Bruce Cornely < Cremona502@cs.com > with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi < http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely >      
(back) Subject: Re: engaging and disengaging... From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:00:14 -0800 (PST)   --- flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw wrote: > > > On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Alan Freed wrote: > > > > Since they asked me to > > > play for the funerals, I thought I would be > > > responsible for playing for > > > all the weddings... > > > > Isn't that a bit of a stretch? > > Not really.... I thought I was just employed to > play the Sunday > services... They asked me to play the two funerals I > think because > (1) they couldn't find anyone else on short notice > and (2) the church > always tried to provide an organist with a > funeral... even small ones.. > > Since I thought funerals were "extras," I assumed > weddings were "extras," > and that I would be playing for all weddings...   Well, OK. But they could have asked you to play "funerals," or "two funerals," or "extras." They asked you to play "the two funerals." To assume more than that is (I still think) walking out on a limb a bit. > > In fact the first year I played (they were between > ministers that > summer... the new minister came, I think, in > September) I did play > weddings... > > In the succeeding years I guess they had someone covering the weddings, > but I was not told that... I thought I should have > been told that... > I'd still have to say that when you were "not told that" it is dangerous to "assume." True, each case is different; and what you assumed might have been right in a different time or place. But 'cover your arse," as they say in the old country. > > > > > > > As a particular Sunday approaches when I'm > > > to play at a church, I try and > > > keep in contact with that church... to thus > > > avoid any flubups... And even > > > before each service, if the Minister can spare > > > me a moment, I ask him/her, > > > "Is there anything you need to tell me?" > > > > > > One Sunday a minister was *very* glad that I > > > did touch base with her... It > > > seemed that on that Sunday we had to > > > perform a Baptism which had been > > > postponed from a previous day (I think the > > > baby had gotten sick)... > > > > > I think Morton is making good sense. > Alan with P.S.: I'm a retired pastor, so can be expected to take the clergy part in this. No. The stupid pastors often make a lot of errors in communication too. And aren't too nice about improving communication.   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:25:50 -0800 (PST)   --- quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > I suppose one could blame "the times" ... but then I read the old hymn: "Be not faithless, but believing .... " > > Even our VERY faithful congregation (an average > of 150 out of 200 show up EVERY SUNDAY) stays away from Holy Week > in DROVES, *except* for Good Friday. Maundy Thursday and Easter Vigil are the devout few. > > Some blame the neighborhood; some blame the > evening hour (Good Friday is at 3 p.m.). > Our Good Friday (at Saint Luke's in midtown Man hattan Theatre district) is 1 pm. Works OK. We even get TV celebrities (newsfolk, really, and generally LCMS), who are sometimes trailed by a camera crew for the evening news.   > Maybe it will improve when we move into the new > church ... better area, lighted parking, easier access to the freeways. > > Three years running, the Rector and I did everything but turn cartwheels > up and down the center aisle to get people to > come .... he preached; I wrote Liturgy and Music Notes; we begged; we pleaded ... particularly for people to come to the Easter Vigil. > > Result: NADA. > > Last year we sang the Easter Vigil for a > congregation of SEVEN. I've > given up having the choir ... we have two chanters.   > This year should be better ... we have baptisms. > Baptisms are essential. If you ain't evangelizing, you won't have them. We have a new pastor, and he's ENRICHED the Vigil, AND sought out those in need of baptism. We used to have zero baptisms and attendance of 16-24 ultrafaithful. Now we have 1-3 baptisms, and attendance of 36-50 or so (membership, c. 116). And all the rich ritual to go with it. It's WONDERFUL May I say "awesome"?) > > I have to say that neither neighborhood, hour, > access or anything ELSE > used to stop the anglo-catholics from packing > the churches during Holy > Week in the OLD days, and THEY came Wednesday night > for Tenebrae as well, PLUS Tenebrae AFTER the Maundy Thursday and Good Friday liturgies. > > I may complain about all the work and the length > of the services, but I > cannot IMAGINE *not* going to them. > This is our first Holy Week after 9.11, of course. We can kind of expect an increase in attendance, though I could wish for a betterreason.   Alan, hugely blessed to be at Saint Luke's and loving you all for puting up with my reports.       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: engaging and disengaging... From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:45:11 -0800 (PST)   > she had disengaged the other one without > getting the firm understanding that i would play > after all, since we left it that the other one would > play, and i was out all day saturday and did not > her her messages until about 11 pm. > merry > Ay, milaidy. I think you're right. I've been fighting you on this, but I think you're quie right about that. Long live FAX and e-mail evidence of understandint between parties.   Alan     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance, and 9/11 From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:09:19 -0800   Bud wrote:   > Last year we sang the Easter Vigil for a > > congregation of SEVEN. I've > > given up having the choir ... we have two chanters. > > > This year should be better ... we have baptisms.   Alan wrote:>   > Baptisms are essential. If you ain't evangelizing, > you won't have them. We have a new pastor, and he's > ENRICHED the Vigil, AND sought out those in need of > baptism. We used to have zero baptisms and attendance > of 16-24 ultrafaithful. Now we have 1-3 baptisms, and > attendance of 36-50 or so (membership, c. 116). And > all the rich ritual to go with it. It's WONDERFUL > May I say "awesome"?)   Agreed ... Easter Vigil is THE service for baptisms.   But we are medievalists ... infants are usually baptized within a week of birth, if not sooner, so there's no possibility of "saving them up" and doing them at the Vigil Service, as we have (on average) about one every month or two during the year.   We *baptize* VERY few adult converts, as we accept anybody's baptism that was done with flowing water in the Name of the Trinity ... we'll "supply" the anointings and the rest of the ceremonies, if requested; and MOST of our "converts" are returning yuppies who were either Episcopalians to begin with, or married an Anglican spouse, or now the kids are old enough for Sunday School, or whatever.   Of course, the IDEAL thing in our situation would be to have a bishop here and at least have confirmations / chrismations at the Vigil service, and I suppose eventually that will happen when we get around to electing a bishop, and St. Matthew's becomes the pro-cathedral. But in the meantime, the nearest bishop is New Orleans.   Convert pagans from scratch? Naaaaaaah. Don't think I've seen one darken the door in four years (grin). It'd be fun if we DID ... we could do the Lenten Scrutinies and all that other STUFF (chuckle) that goes on FOREVER. But, like the RCs, we're allowed to use the shorter rites for an infant, with some word changes.   Our neighbors at Our Lady Queen of Angels RC in Newport Beach DO do the full rite for adults, but they have full-time catechists and liturgists .... it's a HUGE parish ... they had FORTY adult baptisms last Easter = Vigil .... the service lasted most of the night, as I know it's supposed to, but HIMMEL! Then they got up and did a DOZEN Masses on Easter DAY.   > This is our first Holy Week after 9.11, of course. We > can kind of expect an increase in attendance, though I > could wish for a better reason.   I have been sorta puzzled at our people's reaction to 9/11, in conservative Orange County. The memorial services WEREN'T well-attended at St. Matthew's; we sang the sabre-rattling hymns and "Our Father's God, To Thee" for awhile ... then it sorta went away, except for a Collect for the Armed Forces at Mass. It MIGHT be because we only have a handful of veterans in the parish, and only two young men on active duty ... I don't know. Crystal Cathedral certainly packed 'em in. Attendance HAS been rising gradually, but I think that's more in anticipation of the new church than anything else.   We'll take whatever motivation we can get (grin) ... I remember my godmother telling me stories of all the novena services being standing-room-only during WWII. I imagine GOD would rather we didn't wait for a crisis too, but ... He also understands fallen human nature.   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: Re: Decorated pipes, once again From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:31:48 -0800 (PST)   --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: > Rick Maryman described the orange-painted > tuning sleeves and stopper > handles in an organ he knew as adding a splash > of color to the pipework of an > otherwise drab-looking installation. > As an addendum to my post on our instrument > at Christ Lutheran, I deliberately chose the three depest jewel tones (Emerald, Sapphire, and Ruby) > from the chancel stained glass window, to use > as enamel colors for each of > the ranks of tuning sleeves. > The parish busybody spared no effort in telling > me that "the entire affair was garish," compared to the old pipe > fence, the dummy pipes of which > were "layered in gold-tone metallite," as they say > on Home Shopping Club. > When I enquired as to whether she found those rich and beautiful colors > "garish" in the Good Shephard window hovering over the chancel, the argument ended... > SMG > Seb:   I'm warning you. I've heard about your work at Christ Church before. And I'm going to come down there and LOOK at it. If it's any comfort, I'm going to guess that I'm going to LOVE it.   Alan (a secret admirer, but nor really sure yet)   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: St. Agatha's and Joan Lippincott too From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:39:28 -0800 (PST)   --- Glenda <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> wrote: > 5 Lent, Year A > Rite I - service music Merbecke > > St. Agatha's Episcopal Church > DeFuniak Springs, Florida > > Prelude: > Londonderry Air (piano)   Glenda, I can't remember when I've responded to one of your posts. But it's about time that I told you that I appreciate them very muchc.   I thank you.   Alan       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Service List - Passion Sunday - St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church, Costa Mesa CA (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:00:54 -0800   Sung Holy Communion at 9 a.m.   No opening voluntary Hymn - The Royal Banners Forward Go - Spires - we sing the plainsong on Good Friday Kyrie - Merbecke Gradual-Psalm 130 - De profundis - Direct Tone Anthem - He Was Despised - somebody I never heard of, but nice ... forget the name No doxology Preface of the Cross Sanctus & Benedictus - Merbecke Great Amen - Robinson - sung in minor Agnus - Merbecke Anthem - Lamb of God - Twyla Paris - yeah, yeah, but sung STRAIGHT in an SATB arrangement, by an ANGLICAN choir, it sounds like an English folk-song (chuckle) Hymn - Ah! Holy Jesus - Herzliebster Jesu No kneeling hymn Hymn - O Sacred Head - Passion Chorale - sung unaccompanied in unison No closing voluntary   High Mass at 11 a.m.   No opening voluntary Hymn - The Royal Banners Forward Go - Spires Introit - Judica me - Direct Tone - congregation Kyrie - Merbecke Gradual-Psalm 130 - De profundis - Direct Tone - congregation Offertory-Psalm 43 - Judica me - Direct Tone -chanter No doxology Preface of the Cross Sanctus & Benedictus - Merbecke Great Amen - Robinson - sung in minor Agnus - Merbecke Communion-Verse - Qui vult venire - Direct Tone - chanter (new Graduale Romanum text) Communion-Psalm 71 - In te, Domine, speravi - Direct Tone - chanter Hymn - Ah! Holy Jesus - Herzliebster Jesu No kneeling hymn Hymn - O Sacred Head - Passion Chorale - sung unaccompanied in unison No closing voluntary   Everything veiled, everybody tippy-toeing around and whispering, very little organ ... gee! I wish it was that way ALL the time ... felt like CHURCH, for a change (grin).   Cheers,   Bud              
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance, and 9/11 From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:01:26 -0800 (PST)   --- quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > Bud wrote: > > > Last year we sang the Easter Vigil for a > > > congregation of SEVEN. I've > > > given up having the choir ... we have two > chanters. > This year should be better ... we have baptisms. > > Alan wrote:> > > > Baptisms are essential. If you ain't evangelizing, you won't have them. We have a new pastor, and he's ENRICHED the Vigil, AND sought out those in need of baptism. We used to have zero baptisms and attendance of 16-24 ultrafaithful. Now we have 1-3 baptisms, and > > attendance of 36-50 or so (membership, c. 116). And> all the rich ritual to go with it. It's WONDERFUL May I say "awesome"?) > > Agreed ... Easter Vigil is THE service for baptisms. > > But we are medievalists ... infants are usually baptized within a week of birth, if not sooner, so there's no possibility of "saving them up" and doing them at the Vigil Service, as we have (on average) about one every month or two during the year. > Bud. First let me tell you that I love you. I'm in need of having to say that these days. That having been said, I agree with with your medievalism. We are not however "saving them up" for the Vigil. Maybe "timing them" at most. This year I understand we have a woman and her infante child as candidates. We's had one or two adults on each of the preceding Vgiils--really, not saved up, but just timing the instruction so that it worked out nicely. Our pastor knows how to "arrange these things", and I'mv very glad.of it. A Vigili with (a) baptism(s) is not much of a Vigil, after all.   Alan   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC: Easter Vigil From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:20:20 -0800       Alan Freed wrote:   > Bud. First let me tell you that I love you. I'm in > need of having to say that these days.   I love you too, and I've been saying that a lot myself of late ... something to do with "while we have time," as the Prayer Book says, I imagine.   > That having > been said, I agree with with your medievalism. We are > not however "saving them up" for the Vigil. Maybe > "timing them" at most. This year I understand we have > a woman and her infante child as candidates. We's > had one or two adults on each of the preceding > Vgiils--really, not saved up, but just timing the > instruction so that it worked out nicely. Our pastor > knows how to "arrange these things", and I'mv very > glad.of it. A Vigili with (a) baptism(s) is not much > of a Vigil, after all. > > Alan >   Hmmm ... I know what you're driving at, and I sorta agree ... but Baptism (and chrismation), as ancient as it is, is ONE component of SEVERAL in the Vigil Service. The rich symbolism is certainly THERE ... dying with Christ under the waters of baptism and rising to new life with Him in the Resurrection ... but the Fire and the Candle and the recounting of Salvation History are important too ... though I occasionally get to chuckling when they do that OH-so-pagan fire ritual (grin).   We're going to do something NEXT year (no TIME this year with everything else that's coming up) that Deon at St. Michael's in Cape Town suggested: they're doing the Psalms and Readings FIRST, out in the parish hall with the lights on; THEN they're going outside to bless the fire and the candle, come into the darkened church in procession, sing the Exsultet, and go straight from that into the Blessing of the Water.   It's always struck me as somewhat odd to do the fire, the candle, and the Exsultet, and then change BACK to purple vestments (which we still do) for the Psalms and Readings, since the EXSULTET is the solemn announcement of Easter.   Cheers,   Bud