PipeChat Digest #2765 - Tuesday, March 19, 2002
 
Love and all that
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
Re: Love and all that
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
web site publication
  by "Wayne Grauel" <wayne@eminent-usa.com>
RE: Love and all that
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
COCKUPS
  by "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com>
Greetings!
  by <Jebartle@aol.com>
Re: Engaging and Disengaging
  by "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com>
Re: COCKUPS
  by "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca>
searching
  by "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.c
Re: searching
  by "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com>
Re: Cockups
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: Greetings!
  by "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com>
RE: Cockups
  by "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org>
Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
RE: COCKUPS
  by <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk>
Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Love and all that From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 05:07:56 -0600   Jonathan Orwig wrote: > Alan, > If the truth be told, I'm also sure there is lots of affection for one > another on this list... love even.   <snip>   > I've been on my share of lists since getting online in 1995, and this > = one has some of the most caring people on it of any I've experienced. <snip>   > Over the years I've learned much from you, Bud and others I've met in > cyberspace, and I have to say I feel affection, appreciation and love = for > you all as well - I'm just sorry I haven't taken the time to say so = before > now (in fact, I'm sorry not to have entered into discussion more often - = I > usually just lurk here in silence, sapping up the wealth). These lists = have > seen me through triumph, tears and tragedy, and have greatly increased = my > knowledge, and it is not simply due to a "list", but to the folk who > populate it and freely share themselves with each other. > I salute you all,   Dear Friends on this list.   I would like to also "de-cloak" momentarily and echo Jonathan's comments about this list.   First of all, I would like to thank David and Tim, our List co-owners for so freely sharing of their personal resources to "keep the lights on" for all of us to come and be their guests in their "home", which is essentially what we are when we participate on this list.   This also goes for the Live Chat, which takes place on Monday and Friday evenings.   It is due to this list that I feel as though I know many of you personally. And in fact, I have even gotten acquainted with several of you in person during my travels. Indeed, my life has been greatly enriched by these friendships.   Without a doubt, I know that I could turn to this list in times of trouble and would find a listening ear a word of encouragement and even someone who might be willing to pray us through. I've slept since then, so my memory's foggy, but in fact: I seem to recall that being the case when first my Father, and then more recently, when my Mother passed away.   Thank you, each of you, for your unique gifts and contributions to this list. Like organists, organbuilders lead a lonely existence, working day after day in churches and other venues without much contact at times (who REALLY wants to hang around and talk with you while you're tuning that XXXII Terzzimbel -and, of course, you really don't WANT them to???)   Of course, we *do* have AIO Conventions, but that's only once a year, and it gets pretty lonely in-between.   So I will also raise my mug of Coffee (which those of you who know me in person know that it follows me EVERYWHERE I go like a little puppy dog!) in humble thanks and recognition of your friendships and kind brotherly affection for me. It is in large part due to you that I am able to continue to write my customary greeting below. . .   So, THANK YOU, and I too salute the list membership.   Faithfully,   Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME EMAIL mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL  
(back) Subject: Re: Love and all that From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:02:19 -0500   In blatant defiance of List rules concerning "me too" postings, please permit me to echo Richard, Allan, and Jonathan from the perspective of a newcomer to this community. My welcome into this group has been complete and life changing. From the moment I sent my first post saying "I love the organ, so now what?", folks on this List have taken me in, guided my aspirations, and taught me what I needed to know, in tolerance, gentle caring, and concern. It is with anticipatory glee that I open my Pipechat folder each day to savor the wisdom, sharing, entertainment, and even the occasional controversy. More recently, I began to participate in the IRC chats, and there I always find myself sitting in a room bubbling with conversations of all kinds amongst people who are living the kind of life I want to have. You all have heard me say that it is my life ambition to be amongst the pipes, and this community is doing its utmost to get me there. This demonstration of love and caring towards a perfect stranger, and particularly one so uninitiated, is remarkable in a world so filled with self centered attitudes. So on the eve of an adventure that may very well change my life forever, I also salute the membership of this List, our administrators who make it happen, and particularly those who have taken me under wing quietly behind the scenes. To those who would say the word "Love" is over-used, I would argue that it is far too seldom said, for in the saying, lives are deeply touched, lifelong friendships are established, and a warmth of spirit is generated that can only serve to improve those lives it is shared with. I will be off-line for several days hence as I pursue my dreams in an Indiana Church, and you can bet that the first thing I will do upon my return home, is open my Pipechat folder, sit back, and feel the warmth surround me. Such is the importance of this List and her people to my humble life.   With great affection and appreciation Mike Gettelman    
(back) Subject: web site publication From: "Wayne Grauel" <wayne@eminent-usa.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:35:33 -0500   Subject: Web-site: publication? (x-posted) From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:30:02 -0500   Dear anyone know if putting music up on a web site effects "publication?" I'm selecting music for my church's web site and have considered the theme of the Durufl=E9 variations on Veni Creator Spiritus" but am concerned that such recording may offend the copyright law.   Advice? Thanx.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA -----------------------------------------------   Karl, There are some common guidelines for using materials in broadcast (and a web site is about the same thing).   I'm not a lawyer!... Glenda... chime in here if you still practice law... Be prepared... you will get one differing opinion from every 2 people poled on this topic!   My understanding is....   1. This is not a recording of a copyrighted CD! 2. This is a recording of your own choir for public offering , not for sale... 3. Here is the gray area, you can actually use copyrighted material if you only use a portion of the material, like... fade into a small identifiable section, and fade out...     I would suggest that if this is for a web site you would only use a portion anyway..   I do a lot of this (recording, etc... not bootlegging recordings :>) just ask Tom, he'll tell you what I'm capable of.   If you need any help with the project, recording, or the encoding just let me know, I'll be glad to help you out.   As far as encoding, depending on what you want to do, MP3 is really the best delivery format for quality, it can be downloaded, to a file and played back later. On the down side of this... it takes a long time to download Mp3's. You should consider that your entire audience is probably still on a 56K modem. I offer MP3's on my sites for organ demonstrations that I've recorded, but I also offer Real Media which offers much better solutions to people who want to hear something right away.   This should be of primary concern to you or anyone out there. NO ONE (from the general public) wants to sit around and wait for MP3's to load. We have grown accustom to our wait times for the internet dropping to nano seconds in recent years, so the thought of sitting there while you watch your screen and wait for a download of only 1 or 2 minutes is an eternity by today's standards.. not imagine waiting for 7-10 minutes for something just slightly longer in recorded length! Granted, there will be people who prefer to download, walk away, and come back, but you can not discount the "normal person"... in a hurry, impatient, and otherwise "wants it right now".   This is why I would seriously recommend to encode in MP3 for serious downloads, and Real Media for surfers or people who want to hear it right now. The difference in audio quality, even on a very good computer audio system, will be negligible, especially when compared to the fact that you can hear a "live" audio stream in a matter of seconds.   If you want to hear the difference and see what I mean, there are some relatively short MP3's on my site. See how long it will take to download one of those, and then compare the audio quality to the same recording in Real Media. Here is the address: http://churchorgansales.com/organ_recordings_RM_MP3.htm You will find that keeping the material short is the key, and offering both media formats is almost essential.   Like I said, if you need any help with the encoding or any additional information, just let me know, I'll be glad to help.   Wayne Grauel    
(back) Subject: RE: Love and all that From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:53:26 -0600   I feel a group hug coming on!   Smooch, smooch.   Glenda Sutton, who is hiding behind the console, and who believes in lunch therapy          
(back) Subject: COCKUPS From: "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:59:44 -0800 (PST)   Originally, I sent this to Ross and Lynda Wards priovately, but I think I would like to share these stories with everyone, since they are not exactly off topic.     In my experience in piano tuning, I have run across some hilarious situations, two of which I would like to share with you.   The first one is - Recently, I was tuning a piano in a nursing home. One note was giving me some trouble in that it kept going flat, and I kept pounding on it.   I hadn't noticed, but a little old lady who was five days later to celebrate her 100th birthday was sitting behind me in a wheelchair. She got tired of my pounding, and said "Well! Either play the G**D****** thing, or quit F****** with it!"   The second one is - I was tuning an organ in a church in West Texas, and a local piano teacher called the church to speak with me. She was having some trouble with the pedals on a grand piano and wanted me to come over and fix them.   I went over, and her home was in a very wealthy part of town. When I rang the doorbell, she came with her pet Chihuahua, Chico.   Her husband was at home, and was the pastor of a large, wealthy church, and he was dressed in a gray suit with a black clerical shirt and white collar.   After I met him, I went into the music room and got under the piano, a walnut 7' Steinway which cost about $55,000. When I got under it, I smelled urine. Little Chico had been using the pedals for a fireplug.   I got out from under the piano and told the Reverend what had happened. He asked, "What is it going to take to fix it, and how much is it going to cost?" I replied "I'm going to have to take the pedals apart, clean and refelt them, reassemble them, put them back on the piano, and regulate them. This is going to cost $250 to $300."   The good Reverend looked at little Chico and said, "Why that little son-of-a-b****!!!   D. Keith Morgan       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Greetings! From: <Jebartle@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:54:14 EST   Hello, listers! I'm *very* new to this list (been lurking for several days). I am the = Clerk of Session at First Presbyterian Church, Bloomsburg, PA; also sing = in the choir. AND, I'm on our church's Organ Committee under the = direction of our esteemed organist and friend, Harry Martenas. = Admittedly, I know extremely little about pipe organs, but I have a great = appreciation for them as an integral part of worship. I'm looking forward = to hearing your experiences and learning as much as I can!   /Jayne Bartlett  
(back) Subject: Re: Engaging and Disengaging From: "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:19:05 -0800 (PST)   I certainly would like to have a copy of that article. How can I get one?   D. Keith Morgan     --- Chicaleee@aol.com wrote: > Jim, > > I have written an article "True Confessions of a > Church Organist" from the > happenings and mishaps of 50 years "on the bench." > It has been an > interesting journey with lots of crucks in the road, > but we roll with the > punches. I wouldn't trade those years for any other > advocation. (I say > advocation, as I had to have a vocation to support > that habit for many > years). Now that I am retired from full time work, > I am having some problems > adjusting to having enough time to practice and > learn new music. It's just > about to soak in. Lee >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: COCKUPS From: "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:53:07 -0500   At 04:59 AM 19/03/2002 -0800, Douglas Morgan wrote: >. When I got under it, I smelled urine. >Little Chico had been using the pedals for a fireplug. Truly a "cockup".............   HD    
(back) Subject: searching From: "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:04:48 -0500     Its been a while since I have had time to post. Our new Organ has arrived =   and is in the process of voiceing. (Allen 4M 116Rnk) When it came it sounded more like a decent Moller but = the voicing will refine it to a much more elegant sound.   Anyway I wanted to post on several topics. Briefly just to mention that = our Good Friday service is being toned down a bit and perhaps a bit more traditional. The centerpiece is the de Victoria setting of the St john Passion. Unfourtunatly sung in English but a very accesable work for the choir.   I was wondering if any of our friend in the Pittsburg Pa area or anywhere for that matter have run across a former college prof of mine. Dr J Peter =   Bercovitz. Actually a biblical scholar, but also a fine fine organist. I =   have not had any luck finding him in the traditional venues and thought = that you might know him or where he might be. He is also an Episcopal Priest.   Thanks for your postings and the support that this list provides   Craig     _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx    
(back) Subject: Re: searching From: "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:18:16 -0500   Craig:   J. Peter Bercovitz 12 Third Avenue Buckhannon, WV 26201   He does not appear to have a parish affiliation at the moment.   Sound like a very nice organ. Is it an out-of-the-box Renaissance model, or a custom-made instrument? Will they have it finished by Easter?   Best regards,   Dave Barton     ----- Original Message ----- From: "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: searching     > > Its been a while since I have had time to post. Our new Organ has = arrived > and is in the process of voiceing. > (Allen 4M 116Rnk) When it came it sounded more like a decent Moller but the > voicing will refine it to a much more elegant sound. > > Anyway I wanted to post on several topics. Briefly just to mention that our > Good Friday service is being toned down a bit and perhaps a bit more > traditional. The centerpiece is the de Victoria setting of the St john > Passion. Unfourtunatly sung in English but a very accesable work for = the > choir. > > I was wondering if any of our friend in the Pittsburg Pa area or = anywhere > for that matter have run across a former college prof of mine. Dr J = Peter > Bercovitz. Actually a biblical scholar, but also a fine fine organist. = I > have not had any luck finding him in the traditional venues and thought that > you might know him or where he might be. He is also an Episcopal = Priest. > > Thanks for your postings and the support that this list provides > > Craig > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Cockups From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:47:17 EST   Thanks, Ross, you have made my day/week/month. And to others who have = shared their experiences, since we all have them - some comedy, some tragedy.   Ross' relating the ping, ping, ping story of the dropped bridal ring is = one I can relate to since it happened in a service I played. It was a one ping wedding, sort of like the Hunt For Red October movie. (remember Sean Connery, "One ping only!!")   First United Methodist Church in Waco, Texas purchased the unused marble/granite/whatever from the Viet Nam War Memorial and installed the polished black stone as flooring in their chancel and adjacent area. = During the wedding, the bride dropped the groom's ring, it hit the harder-n-Hell polished marble with a loud PING, bounced straight up and was caught in mid-flight by the minister with no noticable effort at all, and he = continued as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened. What a trooper! The = small wet spot on the polished black floor, almost exactly where the bride had = been situated, remains a mystery even today.   Best wishes, Jim P    
(back) Subject: Re: Greetings! From: "Mack" <mack02445@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:51:48 -0500   Welcome Jayne,   Harry is a great guy and has a lot of wisdom on organs. I hope this group will educate you to the information you need or want, some of us get churlish at times, must be an age thing. Again Welcome to Pipechat   Cheers, Mack Boston, Massachusetts       Jebartle@aol.com wrote: > > > I'm *very* new to this list (been lurking for several days).  
(back) Subject: RE: Cockups From: "COLASACCO, ROBERT" <RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:09:46 -0500   You've gotta watch out for wet spots!!!   > The small wet spot on the polished black floor, almost exactly where the bride had been situated, remains a mystery even today.    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:06:58 -0600   On 3/18/02 8:25 PM, John L. Speller wrote:   > Many of our parishioners think the Easter Vigil is the highpoint of the > entire year, and I would have thought this would be even more true of a > traditionalist Anglican parish like Bud's.   We at St. Andrew's in Winnipeg certainly embody the traditional Anglican parish in Canada. But we have noticed a falling off of Holy Week = attendance over the past few years.   With a regular Sunday attendance of 200-250, Palm Sunday swells to around 300; Maundy Thursday, aided by a potluck Seder Supper (always a draw at = St. Andrew's, feed them and they will come), attracts between 100-125; Good Friday falls to 50 or less (we've stopped doing choral presentations such = as "The Crucifixion").   The Easter Vigil, one of my own special favorites, is in imminent danger = of cancellation. Last year, attendance had dwindled to basically choir and groupies (otherwise known as spouses, parents, etc.) and this year I = expect choir attendance to be down. Very discouraging.   An Easter sunrise service is new this year - we'll see how it does. Traditionally, the 3 regular services draw about 600 souls on Easter = Sunday.   Russ    
(back) Subject: RE: COCKUPS From: <cmys13085@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:41:08 -0000     Hello,   One of my favourite stories concerns the rather "dotty" Vicar who didn't = properly understand the way people spoke in his Parish.   Thanking everyone for assisting to get the church cleaned up after the = new decorations had been completed, he picked out a few people for = special mention.   Then, with a benevolent smile he finished by saying, "...and I think I = must make a special mention of Miss Bartle, our Guide-mistress, who has = made all our lives so much easier and pleasant by supplying such a = wonderful team of young lady "scrubbers"!   The boy choristers erupted into laughter; one or two of them punching = the air.   Oh dear!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     -----Original Message----- From: "pipechat@pipechat.org" <pipechat@pipechat.org> on behalf of = "douglas morgan" <dkmorgan76209@yahoo.com> Sent: 19 March 2002 12:59 To: "University of Albany" <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu>, "Pipechat" = <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: COCKUPS   Originally, I sent this to Ross and Lynda Wards priovately, but I think I would like to share these stories with everyone, since they are not exactly off topic.     In my experience in piano tuning, I have run across some hilarious situations, two of which I would like to share with you.   The first one is - Recently, I was tuning a piano in a nursing home. One note was giving me some trouble in that it kept going flat, and I kept pounding on it.   I hadn't noticed, but a little old lady who was five days later to celebrate her 100th birthday was sitting behind me in a wheelchair. She got tired of my pounding, and said "Well! Either play the G**D****** thing, or quit F****** with it!"   The second one is - I was tuning an organ in a church in West Texas, and a local piano teacher called the church to speak with me. She was having some trouble with the pedals on a grand piano and wanted me to come over and fix them.   I went over, and her home was in a very wealthy part of town. When I rang the doorbell, she came with her pet Chihuahua, Chico.   Her husband was at home, and was the pastor of a large, wealthy church, and he was dressed in a gray suit with a black clerical shirt and white collar.   After I met him, I went into the music room and got under the piano, a walnut 7' Steinway which cost about $55,000. When I got under it, I smelled urine.=20 Little Chico had been using the pedals for a fireplug.   I got out from under the piano and told the Reverend what had happened. He asked, "What is it going to take to fix it, and how much is it going to cost?" I replied "I'm going to have to take the pedals apart, clean and refelt them, reassemble them, put them back on the piano, and regulate them. This is going to cost $250 to $300."   The good Reverend looked at little Chico and said, "Why that little son-of-a-b****!!!   D. Keith Morgan       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:43:26 -0800       Russ Greene wrote:   > On 3/18/02 8:25 PM, John L. Speller wrote: > > > Many of our parishioners think the Easter Vigil is the highpoint of = the > > entire year, and I would have thought this would be even more true of = a > > traditionalist Anglican parish like Bud's.   St. Matthew's is "traditionalist" to a point ... we use the old Prayer = Book and the old Hymnal ... but churchmanship-wise, it's neither fish nor fowl nor = good red meat, probably because it wasn't an existing parish that left ECUSA = ... it started from scratch, and as such has drawn "all sorts and conditions of = men" from up and down the coast. I'd say it's probably about 1/3 = anglo-catholics (judging from who genuflects at the Incarnatus), 1/3 Evangelicals, and 1/3 = who couldn't care less one way or the other.   > We at St. Andrew's in Winnipeg certainly embody the traditional Anglican > parish in Canada. But we have noticed a falling off of Holy Week = attendance > over the past few years. > > With a regular Sunday attendance of 200-250, Palm Sunday swells to = around > 300; Maundy Thursday, aided by a potluck Seder Supper (always a draw at = St. > Andrew's, feed them and they will come), attracts between 100-125; Good > Friday falls to 50 or less (we've stopped doing choral presentations = such as > "The Crucifixion").   We get about 25 + the choir for the evening Mass on Maundy Thursday. But = we have two Masses, in defiance of the rubrics. Most of the older people come at = 9:30 a.m., as that's a regularly-scheduled Thursday Mass every week.   Good Friday is packed, and we do the whole nine yards, using the post-1956 = Roman Rite in English, as it was adopted by at least some anglo-catholic = parishes.   > The Easter Vigil, one of my own special favorites, is in imminent danger = of > cancellation. Last year, attendance had dwindled to basically choir and > groupies (otherwise known as spouses, parents, etc.) and this year I = expect > choir attendance to be down. Very discouraging.   Likewise here ... the choir put their foot down three years ago after we = sang it for (I think) a congregation of THREE, plus a cast of thousands in the = Sanctuary (chuckle). Last year we did it with two chanters for about half-a-dozen in = the congrgation; this year should be somewhat better, as there are baptisms, = but I'm still not having the choir.   > An Easter sunrise service is new this year - we'll see how it does.   We've talked about doing a shortened Vigil ending at sunrise, but that = would be extremely burdensome on the clergy and musicians ... I have no assistant, = and we have two HUGE Masses later in the day.   > > Traditionally, the 3 regular services draw about 600 souls on Easter = Sunday. > > Russ >   If Christmas this year was any indication, we'll probably get around 300 = at the two Masses on Easter Day.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: RE: OFF-TOPIC Re: Holy Week attendance From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:28:48 -0500   >Likewise here ... the choir put their foot down three years ago after we sang it for (I think) a congregation of THREE, plus a cast of thousands in the Sanctuary (chuckle). Last year we did it with two chanters for about half-a-dozen in the congrgation; this year should be somewhat better, as there are baptisms, = but I'm still not having the choir.   What time is the service? It might help if it were earlier in the evening than 11 p.m. or midnight, and if the prophecies were truncated.   I like it just fine in the old time and manner myself, but am willing to bend to an extent if it will make the service more popular. It seems to = me that the lighting of the fire in a darkened church, and the use of = candles, with a congregant's chance to hold one, makes for an experience that ought to appeal and be meaningful to children; but if the whole service is too late for them and the readings last the better part of an hour, they will be turned off.