PipeChat Digest #2782 - Thursday, March 28, 2002
 
Glenda's Fall From Grace
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Organ Pricing Distortions
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE: hymns and the clergy
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
hymns and the clergy victory at last
  by "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.c
Re: hymns and the clergy
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Andr=E9 Fleury CDs
  by "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org>
Re: hymns and the clergy victory at last
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: Organ Pricing Distortions
  by "Bob" <rammer@zoomlynx.com>
Re: Organ Pricing Distortions
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com>
Tubamagna64  Pipe Organs
  by "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com>
Re: Tubamagna64  Pipe Organs
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
 

(back) Subject: Glenda's Fall From Grace From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:19:02 -0800 (PST)     --- Glenda <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> wrote: > > Feeling > her fingers slipping, she decided to step out > on faith or fall from > grace. > > Gee, Glenda. I thought I was the only one who named my trees. Although "Grace" was not a name I'd given our maple tree out back, but whatsinaname?   Steve Ohmer Pearland TJ       >     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards=AE http://movies.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Organ Pricing Distortions From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:45:08 EST   Dearest Assembled:   One of the most effective tools for destroying any hopes of getting a pipe =   organ before any investigation has started is to overinflate the price. = Doing some research would show plenty of other possibilities. People MUST be realistic about how much they are going to invest, but they've got to stop believing the bad publicity about pricing. No, there = are no good pipe organs which can be purchased, moved, and restored for twenty =   thousand dollars. But not all pipe organ projects run six or seven = figures. Nota Bene: Price is not an indication that somebody is the greatest builder in this history of the art of organbuilding. Sweeping statements = like that are a curse. When a builder is being praised as the best in the = world, or the best in history, one might wish to give some details as to WHY. = False information is worse than none at all. That having been said, pipe organs, over the life of the instrument, = are good investments. Good, reliable, intelligent, informed, honest pipe = organ builders can also locate exceptional vintage instruments at very = reasonable prices. There are MANY sources for older pipe organs -- it's just that = most people fail to look and refuse to ask the right questions of the right people. There is more than one grocery store on planet Earth. Shop around. If the client is exceptionally difficult and picky (I just had one = person reject both a 19th century mechanical action organ and a 3-manual AEolian-Skinner) they may end up with nothing at all. Or a church board = that would rather have a more reasonable organist at the helm. If you do not have the expertise to know if the builder you're = considering is a junk dealer, find somebody who can come along and help you out. Ask questions. And if you have a builder who very, very strongly suggests that =   you NOT do certain things with the project, LISTEN. If you are at loggerheads over your proposed fantasy stoplist, or placement, or = excessive unification, your builder probably knows something you don't, or has had = exp erience with it in the past. If an organbuilder does not want to build something a certain way because he doesn't want his nameplate to go on an instrument like that, he's telling you something... Once again, this missive is NOT about pipes vs. substitutes. Most organbuilders can tell you that the client who really, truly wants a pipe organ, no matter how poor, usually ends up with The Real McCaughy. Where there's a will, there's a way. I've seen wealthy churches = mismanage their funds and default on jobs, and on two occasions, the poorest = churches I've ever encountered have become clients. Don't give up on a pipe organ, and don't believe all the hype about = them being unaffordable. Everybody here is much smarter than that. SMG  
(back) Subject: RE: hymns and the clergy From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:04:59 -0500   >And if ANY congregation is stupid/uneducated/uninformed/uninterested/passive enough to let these = things slide, then they deserve what they get....a micromanaged corporation that inspires nobody and gets nothing done.   >A generalization and a bit strong, I know, but I cannot fathom ANY church that would allow their Rector to be put on such a pedestal that he could = be equated with Fidel Castro.   How would they know? I am afraid that the ministry is a very attractive metier for those whose ambition is to run a little fiefdom, and if one = also has a dash of the con artist and sociopath into the bargain, success can = be almost guaranteed. A congregation doesn't really know what they're = getting when they hire a rector, and they aren't easy to sack-- almost impossible, if the bishop happens to approve of them (and please don't get me started about our bishop... he is apparently just as tyrannical as Fidel and twice as smart).      
(back) Subject: hymns and the clergy victory at last From: "BridgewaterUMC Director of Music" <bridgewatermusic@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:28:27 -0500     My Brothers and Sisters of the list:   You may mark up a win for the organ side of the Chancel. Not only are we doing llanfair as the final hymn, but I have a signed directive that = states it is not only my perogative but my duty to choose the hymns for sunday in =   consultation with the pastor. Of course, paper agreements are only as = good as the work that follows, so we shall see. However, at least holy week = will be reasonably quiet and orderly.     Peace and thanks to you all   Craig     _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns and the clergy From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:55:42 EST     --part1_96.23ff7640.29d399de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 3/27/02 5:08:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, pemmons@wcupa.edu writes:     > How would they know? I am afraid that the ministry is a very attractive > metier for those whose ambition is to run a little fiefdom, and if one = also > has a dash of the con artist and sociopath into the bargain, success can = be > almost guaranteed.   Yup.... this is what bishops are supposed to prevent..... alas....   Bruce Cornely < Cremona502@cs.com > with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres and meet the Baskerbeagles: Duncan, Miles, Molly & = Dewi < http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely >   --part1_96.23ff7640.29d399de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 3/27/02 5:08:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, pemmons@wcupa.edu writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">How would they = know? &nbsp;I am afraid that the ministry is a very attractive <BR>metier for those whose ambition is to run a little fiefdom, and if one = also <BR>has a dash of the con artist and sociopath into the bargain, success = can be <BR>almost guaranteed. &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Yup.... this is what bishops are supposed to prevent..... alas.... <BR> <BR> Bruce Cornely &lt; Cremona502@cs.com &gt;<I> </I> <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres <I>&nbsp;</I>and meet the Baskerbeagles: = &nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi <BR>&lt; http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 + = http://prepaidlegal.com/go/brucecornely &nbsp;&gt;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_96.23ff7640.29d399de_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Andr=E9 Fleury CDs From: "William T. Van Pelt" <bill@organsociety.org> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:44:08 -0500   Two new CDs featuring the interesting, approachable, and important organ works of Andr=E9 Fleury (1903-1995) are produced by the superb Aeolus = label and are available from http://www.ohscatalog.org Fr=E9d=E9ric Blanc plays = "24 Pieces for Organ" and improvises a "Diptyque in hommage to Andr=E9 Fleury" = on the latest Volume 2 in this series, recorded on the very fine organ at Notre-Dame d'Auteuil in Paris (mostly Cavaill=E9-Coll) -- sumptuous = acoustics. Volume 1, which has been out of print for about a year and which was first produced in 1997, features seven works played by Denis Comtet at Saint-Francois-Xavier in Paris.   Bill    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns and the clergy victory at last From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:46:22 -0600   On 3/27/02 3:28 PM, BridgewaterUMC Director of Music wrote:   > You may mark up a win for the organ side of the Chancel.   Congratulations, I'm delighted for you. Hope that it continues to work = well.   Best wishes, Russ Greene St. Andrew's Anglican Church (Woodhaven) Winnipeg, Canada    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Pricing Distortions From: "Bob" <rammer@zoomlynx.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:51:54 -0500   Please heed SMG's wonderful guidance......I can say from experience that = we had a plan for a new organ that would have cost well over a million = dollars. Our dream was to build a 4 manual 70+ rank organ for our new sanctuary seating approximately 1500. Knowing full well that we were limited in our organ budget, we spent a year seeking out an older organ that we could incorporate into our plan. Im delighted to report that we located, = inspected and purchased a 1959 3/54 Moller for a fraction of the price of a new = organ. We also acquired the beautiful 4 manual Moller console from St. Matthews Cathedral in Wash D.C. to use with our organ. We plan to completely recondition the organ, consoles, install a solid state relay systems and expand the organ to 60-70 ranks. When completed, Im sure this organ will = be a magnificant instrument, in new condition at well less than the cost of a new organ. So, please do your homework, hire a very competent organ = builder for guidance and direction, and seek out those magnificant old organs that are available for a fraction of the cost of a new organ. Your dream organ can come true. ----- Original Message ----- From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 09:45 Subject: Organ Pricing Distortions     > Dearest Assembled: > > One of the most effective tools for destroying any hopes of getting a = pipe > organ before any investigation has started is to overinflate the price. Doing > some research would show plenty of other possibilities. > People MUST be realistic about how much they are going to invest, but > they've got to stop believing the bad publicity about pricing. No, = there are > no good pipe organs which can be purchased, moved, and restored for = twenty > thousand dollars. But not all pipe organ projects run six or seven figures. > Nota Bene: Price is not an indication that somebody is the greatest > builder in this history of the art of organbuilding. Sweeping statements like > that are a curse. When a builder is being praised as the best in the world, > or the best in history, one might wish to give some details as to WHY. False > information is worse than none at all. > That having been said, pipe organs, over the life of the instrument, are > good investments. Good, reliable, intelligent, informed, honest pipe organ > builders can also locate exceptional vintage instruments at very reasonable > prices. There are MANY sources for older pipe organs -- it's just that most > people fail to look and refuse to ask the right questions of the right > people. There is more than one grocery store on planet Earth. Shop = around. > If the client is exceptionally difficult and picky (I just had one person > reject both a 19th century mechanical action organ and a 3-manual > AEolian-Skinner) they may end up with nothing at all. Or a church board that > would rather have a more reasonable organist at the helm. > If you do not have the expertise to know if the builder you're considering > is a junk dealer, find somebody who can come along and help you out. = Ask > questions. And if you have a builder who very, very strongly suggests = that > you NOT do certain things with the project, LISTEN. If you are at > loggerheads over your proposed fantasy stoplist, or placement, or excessive > unification, your builder probably knows something you don't, or has had exp > erience with it in the past. If an organbuilder does not want to build > something a certain way because he doesn't want his nameplate to go on = an > instrument like that, he's telling you something... > Once again, this missive is NOT about pipes vs. substitutes. Most > organbuilders can tell you that the client who really, truly wants a = pipe > organ, no matter how poor, usually ends up with The Real McCaughy. > Where there's a will, there's a way. I've seen wealthy churches mismanage > their funds and default on jobs, and on two occasions, the poorest churches > I've ever encountered have become clients. > Don't give up on a pipe organ, and don't believe all the hype about them > being unaffordable. > Everybody here is much smarter than that. > SMG > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Pricing Distortions From: "Alan Freed" <afreed3036@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:20 -0800 (PST)   --- Bob <rammer@zoomlynx.com> wrote: > Please heed SMG's wonderful guidance......I can say > from experience that we > had a plan for a new organ that would have cost well > over a million dollars.   That is, unquestiionabgly, a marelous report. My it hepen again, in many places.   Alan   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards=AE http://movies.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Tubamagna64 Pipe Organs From: "STEVE BOURNIAS" <yfd4@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:49:14 +0000   Could someone on this list provide a complete opus list of the builder who = posts here regularly...I believe it is Tubamagna64 ? I am interested in seeing the total output of both new and rebuilt instruments from this very =   prolific commentator ........... Regards to all....Steve Bournias in Warren, Ohio...P>S> Where is the nearest instrument to my city so that I = may inspect one of these rare instruments?     >From: "Bob" <rammer@zoomlynx.com> >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: Organ Pricing Distortions >Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:51:54 -0500 > >Please heed SMG's wonderful guidance......I can say from experience that = we >had a plan for a new organ that would have cost well over a million >dollars. >Our dream was to build a 4 manual 70+ rank organ for our new sanctuary >seating approximately 1500. Knowing full well that we were limited in our >organ budget, we spent a year seeking out an older organ that we could >incorporate into our plan. Im delighted to report that we located, >inspected >and purchased a 1959 3/54 Moller for a fraction of the price of a new >organ. >We also acquired the beautiful 4 manual Moller console from St. Matthews >Cathedral in Wash D.C. to use with our organ. We plan to completely >recondition the organ, consoles, install a solid state relay systems and >expand the organ to 60-70 ranks. When completed, Im sure this organ will = be >a magnificant instrument, in new condition at well less than the cost of = a >new organ. So, please do your homework, hire a very competent organ = builder >for guidance and direction, and seek out those magnificant old organs = that >are available for a fraction of the cost of a new organ. Your dream organ >can come true. >----- Original Message ----- >From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> >To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> >Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 09:45 >Subject: Organ Pricing Distortions > > > > Dearest Assembled: > > > > One of the most effective tools for destroying any hopes of getting a >pipe > > organ before any investigation has started is to overinflate the = price. >Doing > > some research would show plenty of other possibilities. > > People MUST be realistic about how much they are going to invest, = but > > they've got to stop believing the bad publicity about pricing. No, >there >are > > no good pipe organs which can be purchased, moved, and restored for >twenty > > thousand dollars. But not all pipe organ projects run six or seven >figures. > > Nota Bene: Price is not an indication that somebody is the = greatest > > builder in this history of the art of organbuilding. Sweeping = statements >like > > that are a curse. When a builder is being praised as the best in the >world, > > or the best in history, one might wish to give some details as to WHY. >False > > information is worse than none at all. > > That having been said, pipe organs, over the life of the = instrument, >are > > good investments. Good, reliable, intelligent, informed, honest pipe >organ > > builders can also locate exceptional vintage instruments at very >reasonable > > prices. There are MANY sources for older pipe organs -- it's just that >most > > people fail to look and refuse to ask the right questions of the right > > people. There is more than one grocery store on planet Earth. Shop >around. > > If the client is exceptionally difficult and picky (I just had one >person > > reject both a 19th century mechanical action organ and a 3-manual > > AEolian-Skinner) they may end up with nothing at all. Or a church = board >that > > would rather have a more reasonable organist at the helm. > > If you do not have the expertise to know if the builder you're >considering > > is a junk dealer, find somebody who can come along and help you out. >Ask > > questions. And if you have a builder who very, very strongly suggests >that > > you NOT do certain things with the project, LISTEN. If you are at > > loggerheads over your proposed fantasy stoplist, or placement, or >excessive > > unification, your builder probably knows something you don't, or has = had >exp > > erience with it in the past. If an organbuilder does not want to build > > something a certain way because he doesn't want his nameplate to go on =   >an > > instrument like that, he's telling you something... > > Once again, this missive is NOT about pipes vs. substitutes. Most > > organbuilders can tell you that the client who really, truly wants a >pipe > > organ, no matter how poor, usually ends up with The Real McCaughy. > > Where there's a will, there's a way. I've seen wealthy churches >mismanage > > their funds and default on jobs, and on two occasions, the poorest >churches > > I've ever encountered have become clients. > > Don't give up on a pipe organ, and don't believe all the hype about >them > > being unaffordable. > > Everybody here is much smarter than that. > > SMG > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >         _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at = http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.    
(back) Subject: Re: Tubamagna64 Pipe Organs From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:16:42 -0600   >Could someone on this list provide a complete opus list of the >builder who posts here regularly...I believe it is Tubamagna64 ? I >am interested in seeing the total output of both new and rebuilt >instruments from this very prolific commentator ........... Regards >to all....Steve Bournias in Warren, Ohio...P>S> Where is the nearest >instrument to my city so that I may inspect one of these rare >instruments?   Although there isn't an opus list on the site you can find his work at: http://www.gluckorgelbau.com/   Mr. Gluck, whose correct email "nick" is TubaMagna" is a respected builder and is also the Editor of the Journal of American Organbuilding, the journal of the American Institute of Organbuilders. We should all be very thankful that he takes the time to respond to some of the threads that appear on these lists. I would much rather read what he has to write than dozens of blabbering posts that appear at times.   BTW, the total output of a builder actually has no bearing on the quality of their work as you seem to try to imply. Some of the finest builders have rather small opus lists because they tend to spend their time providing the finest craftsmanship that is available rather than churning out instruments.   And to answer your PS question - you might make it worth your while to make a trip to New York City to see his work.   David