PipeChat Digest #3215 - Saturday, November 9, 2002 Re: Doucaine by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> 16' stops by "John Foss" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Send messages by "vincent lefevre" <email@example.com> Re: Send messages by "Bob Conway" <firstname.lastname@example.org> RE: Send messages by "vincent lefevre" <email@example.com>
(back) Subject: Re: Doucaine From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:40:32 +1300 Indeed! Trouble is, there is precious little chance of that soft 16ft-reed in any plenum for most of us here in NZ. I'd rather have a 4rk unit organ than the horrible electronics in the churches in this parish. In the Roman Catholic Church here in Wainuiomata, there is a tiny small-scaled 3rk ex-residence organ. It is grossly inadequate for the job, but has a wonderful little 16ft quarter-length wooden reed. The parallel- sided resonators are all of wood, and CCC is only about 2.25" square. The other 2rks are a 4ft Principal and a wood 16ft Gedackt, metal from 4ft C = up. Anyone in the UK speak of their experiences of 16ft Clarinets? I guess I tend to notice the bottom end of these things as I'm a basso profundissimo and enjoy the bass line. I sometimes feel a bit sad that in the orchestra bassoons, trombones and the like are not orchestrated in = more often. With this, choirs often have insufficient lower support. A choir record I have, by one of the great English cathedral choirs (better not = say which one) sounds to my ears grossly unbalanced as there are 18 boy = trebles, 14 boy contraltos, 2 tenors and 2 basses. In polyphony the tenor and bass lines are only just discernible. In organs, too, there is often inadequate GOOD bass: i.e. there is often a huge open wood 16ft, or a big wooden Bourdon, or a thing that sounds like = a 16ft Bombarde, or a rattly but loud half-length 16ft Fagotto or Oboe (probably of wood as well), but I long for a mezzo-forte reed of great = depth and richness that can easily be used with flues without being too loud. I long for the organ reed equivalent of the orchestra's cellos and double-basses playing together. In the two examples I mentioned before (King's College Chapel Aberdeen and St Martin's-in-the-Fields London), the answer is just great to my ears. The worst thing is that sometimes 16ft reeds get put in when the result is awful for the organ. Here are two examples, both organs by the NZ Croft firm. ST PAUL'S ANGLICAN, WAIWHETU, LOWER HUTT c1962 Note that the Swell is very hidden, so is a fraction of the volume of the Great. The tone is awful. GREAT 8 Open Diapason 8 Dulciana 8 Stopped Diapason (from Pedal) 4 Principal SWELL 8 Rohr Flute (metal, inverted chimneys) 4 Gemshorn 2 2/3 Twelfth 2 Fiftheenth (sic!) 16 Oboe (full-length to CCC) [As an aside, it can be noted that for about 20 years after completion, = this Oboe spoke an octave below what it should at bottom D, thus speaking DDDD. = I kid you not] PEDAL 16 Bourdon 8 Bass Flute (extn) This is a virtual copy of a Walker organ in England from 1931, but I = imagine that one was better voiced and balanced. The other organ is ST BARNABAS'S ANGLICAN, KHANDALLAH, WELLINGTON c1980, tracker action, unenclosed, (can't remember the exact date or scheme, but something like this) - 8 Principal 8 Gedackt 4 Octave 4 Flute 2 Fifteenth .. Mixture IVrks 16 Dulzian (not a Clarinet) PEDAL 16 SubBass In both cases, the design is stupendously silly for the musical circumstances of the parish. In both organs, the reed is virtually useless and would be far better at 8ft pitch as a smallish Trumpet or an old-fashioned Cornopean of English type, i.e. thin in chords but fat as a solo. In the Lower Hutt organ there is virtually no music suitable for = this instrument and accompanying a congregation of 150 is hopeless. In the Khandallah organ, there is thin stuff and a little spike until the = horrible loud and shrill Mixture is drawn. Its Bourdon is too weak, yet the reed is perpetually out-of-tune and only clogs the manual tone being of 16ft here. But yes, referring to an earlier posting from someone, in an organ with respectable design and size, I think I'd generally rather have a 16ft Clarinet on the Great than a 16ft Quintaton or Bourdon, especially if the reed were playable on the Pedal at 16ft as well. The sound of 16ft = Clarinet, 8ft Trumpet and Mixture makes a wonderful tonal richness also. Ross yes-quiet 16' reeds under the plenum are lovely during hymns.
(back) Subject: 16' stops From: "John Foss" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 12:47:23 +0200 Dear list, Harrison and Harrison had a 16' Clarinet as the swell reed in 1926 at Aldenham parish Church, Hertfordshire - a superb small instrument. (I gave the "Opening" recital after it was restored in 1975.) It also has a 16' Bourdon on the Great, and 12th and 17th mutations - perhaps worth quoting = in full. A very interesting and complete specification for 1926 and built to Harrison's usual high standards, though a little bit tucked away in a corner. Department Stop name Pitch Pedal 1 Open Wood 16 2 Sub Bass 16 A 3 Bass Flute 8 A 4 Flute 4 A Department Stop name Pitch Great 5 Bordun 16 A 6 Open Diapason 8 7 Claribel Flute 8 8 Dulciana 8 full compass 9 Octave 4 10 Wald Flote 4 11 Quint 2 2/3 12 Super Octave 2 13 Tierce 1 1/5 Department Stop name Pitch Swell 14 Violin Diapason 8 15 Lieblich Gedact 8 16 Salicional 8 grooved 17 Gemshorn 4 18 Mixture II 15.19 19 Double Clarinet 16 20 Cornopean 8 21 Oboe 8 I also like 16' quintatens for Baroque choruses - Bruhns, Bach et al., though I have never found much use for them at 8' - but it probably = depends on the Quintaten. John Foss www.johnfoss.gr featured site AGOnline November 2002 http://www.pipe-organs.com/agonline/
(back) Subject: Send messages From: "vincent lefevre" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 13:39:24 +0100 firstname.lastname@example.org Greeting Lef=E8vre Vincent=20
(back) Subject: Re: Send messages From: "Bob Conway" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:14:20 -0500 Hi Vincent, It is a long time since we heard from you, - do you still edit the organ=20 news that you have occasionally sent me from time to time? We are still alive and chatting here, with many interesting topics to rely= =20 upon, organs and organists have some interesting subject matter. I would like to ask you a question, (well two actually): Do you have any information about the 1939 Marcusson organ in the=20 Varfrukyan of Skanninge, Sweden? I have an old LP that I bought recently=20 with Carl Weinrich playing Bach on it. The other organ that I am interested in is the Batz organ in the Ronde=20 Lutherse Kerk in Amsterdam. This too is featured on a recently found LP=20 with Feike Asma playing Handel. I hope that you are keeping well, Best wishes, Bob Conway Kingston, Ontario, Canada. At 01:39 PM 11/8/02 +0100, you wrote: >firstname.lastname@example.org > >Greeting >Lef=E8vre Vincent
(back) Subject: RE: Send messages From: "vincent lefevre" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 15:36:04 +0100 Hi Bob, nice to read you again. Some pc troubles blocked me off from the chatlist, but here I am again. The organ news is no longer edited by me. A young organist took over my function as secretary of the association "Organs in Flanders", editing now a 3-monthly information magazine, but only in Dutsch. Please visit the new site www.orgelinvlaanderen.be With regard to you questions, I do my best in collecting information on that matter and send it to you asap. I'm keeping very well on my age of 78 and intend to carry on. Maybe you are interested in my own website www.prins-willem.tk giving ample information on my modelship building. I'm building also a little street organ and hope to have it playing very soon. It is a hard job to have every component working properly, but I will not give up. Best wishes Vincent -----Original Message----- From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Bob Conway Sent: vrijdag 8 november 2002 15:14 To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Send messages Hi Vincent, It is a long time since we heard from you, - do you still edit the organ news that you have occasionally sent me from time to time? We are still alive and chatting here, with many interesting topics to rely=20 upon, organs and organists have some interesting subject matter. I would like to ask you a question, (well two actually): Do you have any information about the 1939 Marcusson organ in the=20 Varfrukyan of Skanninge, Sweden? I have an old LP that I bought recently=20 with Carl Weinrich playing Bach on it. The other organ that I am interested in is the Batz organ in the Ronde=20 Lutherse Kerk in Amsterdam. This too is featured on a recently found LP with Feike Asma playing Handel. I hope that you are keeping well, Best wishes, Bob Conway Kingston, Ontario, Canada. At 01:39 PM 11/8/02 +0100, you wrote: >firstname.lastname@example.org > >Greeting >Lef=E8vre Vincent "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:email@example.com Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com