PipeChat Digest #3228 - Thursday, November 14, 2002
 
RE: Champagne and seaweed
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Sunday's music:   Widor (go figure!!)
  by "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net>
Re: Sunday's music:   Widor (go figure!!)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Champagne and seaweed
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th.
  by "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net>
Re: HUGE Schantz!
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: HUGE Schantz!
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com>
Cameron Carpenter in Lancaster PA
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th.
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Olpihant the elephant?
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net>
NYC This Sunday, Any Suggestions.
  by "Jonathan Roussos" <jroussos@san.rr.com>
Re: HUGE Schantz!
  by "Peter Harrison" <peter@phmusic.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Champagne and seaweed From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:01:06 -0600   I always serve seaweed and champagne after all my organ recitals - very healthy, and after a few people forget about my playing. The sound is very hard to describe - perhaps a gurgling swish.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Sunday's music: Widor (go figure!!) From: "Mike Gettelman" <mike3247@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:12:58 -0500     --------------22B409F2240816688DB990B7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 11/13/02 2:34:29 AM Eastern > Standard Time, Gfc234@aol.com writes: > > yup... was suffering from > insomniodyslexitremorosis!! ;-)   Well Bruce, you should take some of that veetavitamidgimum you've been selling. I think that disease is listed on the bottle. (grin) MG   --------------22B409F2240816688DB990B7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> &nbsp; <p>Cremona502@cs.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>In = a message dated 11/13/02 2:34:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, Gfc234@aol.com = writes:</font></font> <p><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>yup... was suffering = from insomniodyslexitremorosis!!&nbsp; ;-)</font></font></blockquote>   <p><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well Bruce, you should take some of that = veetavitamidgimum you've been selling. I think that disease is listed on the bottle. (grin) <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MG</html>   --------------22B409F2240816688DB990B7--    
(back) Subject: Re: Sunday's music: Widor (go figure!!) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:24:18 EST     --part1_1a4.bce74a7.2b046352_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/13/02 8:14:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike3247@earthlink.net writes:     > Well Bruce, you should take some of that veetavitamidgimum you've been > selling.   teehee..... she might have said that after a few big slurps! I got your correction before I got the note!   I should be taking "smart pills."   You remember the story of the two little boys sitting on the bridge and = one held up a bottle of pellets and asked his friend if he wanted a "smart = pill."   "Sure," the friend said, taking a pill and poppng it in his mouth.   This went on for several days until the friend finally said "Hey! Those aren't "smart pills" they're RABBIT PELLETS!"   "Now you're gettin SMART," replied the other kid!   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 check out <A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A>       --part1_1a4.bce74a7.2b046352_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/13/02 8:14:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike3247@earthlink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> Well Bruce, you = should take some of that veetavitamidgimum you've been = selling.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>teehee..... she might have said that after a few big slurps! = &nbsp;&nbsp;I got your correction before I got the note! <BR> <BR>I should be taking "smart pills." <BR> <BR>You remember the story of the two little boys sitting on the bridge = and one held up a bottle of pellets and asked his friend if he wanted a = "smart pill." <BR> <BR>"Sure," the friend said, taking a pill and &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;poppng it = in his mouth. <BR> <BR>This went on for several days until the friend finally said "Hey! = &nbsp;Those aren't "smart pills" they're RABBIT PELLETS!" <BR> <BR>"Now you're gettin SMART," replied the other kid! <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;check out &nbsp;&nbsp;<A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_1a4.bce74a7.2b046352_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Champagne and seaweed From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:25:31 EST     --part1_c5.2c2693e8.2b04639b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/13/02 8:15:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, gksjd85@direcway.com writes:     > The sound is very hard to describe - perhaps a gurgling swish.   Oh yeah.... he's a tenor, right??? ;-)     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 check out <A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A>       --part1_c5.2c2693e8.2b04639b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/13/02 8:15:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, gksjd85@direcway.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The sound is very = hard to describe - perhaps a gurgling swish.</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Oh yeah.... he's a tenor, right??? &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;check out &nbsp;&nbsp;<A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_c5.2c2693e8.2b04639b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th. From: "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:40:44 -0500   All:   Every time I hear or play the Widor Toccata, I get recharged. In my opinion, it is one of the most exciting piece of music that was ever written for the organ. I have heard dozens of versions or interpretations by different organists on different organs, as well as on the same organ by different organists and the same organist on different organs. Part of the excitement is to hear how differently organists "interpret" this piece.   Some time ago, I asked myself the question what was the "correct" way to play this piece. I have a recording of Widor himself at a ripe old age stumbling through this piece, but I do not think it is fair to suggest that this is the correct way to play it, as his age and manual dexterity were against him.   The music, as written, is quite clear as to how to play this piece. Tempo speed and technique are documented. Each and EVERY note has a dot above it to indicate that the note is NOT to be held for the indicated duration. Why then, does every version I have listened to (with the exception of two organists) have all the notes run together legato style rather than staccato as written.   Although I do not know, the answer to this might lie in the organ itself. The five manual St. Sulpice Cavaille-Coll organ on which it was probably written for, uses the Barker lever action to assist the keys. Although the action is light compared to a big tracker, it is not as responsive as a modern electro-pneumatic. I am only guessing, but Widor may have attempted to compensate for the somewhat spongy feel of the organ by shortening the note but the end result to the ear would be somewhat legato due to the sluggish response of the organ.   Two organists play the music as written. Klemens Schnorr at the Concert Hall of Musikhochschule, Munich, Germany (Stradivari Classics CD - Organ Masterpieces SCD 6027) and Xavier Darasse at the Cavaille-Coll organ at St. Sernin, Toulouse, France (Vox Box SVBX 5315 Volume 5 Side 1).Both are outstanding recordings and are well worth listening to.   Interestingly, Widor himself does not play the piece as do the two above organists (or at least I can't detect it from the recording).   Antoni Scott  
(back) Subject: Re: HUGE Schantz! From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 21:51:38 -0600   ---- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@attbi.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: Re: HUGE Schantz!     > Or how about my favorite name for an organist: " O.Penn Console " ?   My favorite organist name is Olpihant Chuckerbutty (1884-1960), who = actually existed. He was assistant organist of Southwark Cathedral, composer of organ music, and also a well known theatre organist.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: HUGE Schantz! From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:02:34 -0800   "John L. Speller" wrote: > ... > My favorite organist name is Olpihant Chuckerbutty   I am familiar with this name; I have to ask- do the English express the same mirth (internal smile/ loud guffaw) that Americans do, when uttering this name aloud?   Mac Hayes  
(back) Subject: Cameron Carpenter in Lancaster PA From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:41:18 -0500   Cameron Carpenter played a stunning recital at Grace Lutheran Church, Lancaster PA, on Sunday. The crowd could hardly get enough of what he offered them, and he was all over the organ!! Included: Pageant (Sowerby), Perpetual Mobile (Middleshulte), Pre & Fug in D (Bach), Nun komm der Heiden Heiland (Bach), plus much more, and finally a = three-movement improv based on melodies selected from the audience.   The place was ecstatic about his program. Never a dull moment.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th. From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:37:26 -0600   At 9:40 PM -0500 11/13/2002, Antoni Scott wrote: > >Some time ago, I asked myself the question what was the "correct" way to >play this piece. I have a recording of Widor himself at a ripe old age >stumbling through this piece, but I do not think it is fair to suggest >that this is the correct way to play it, as his age and manual dexterity >were against him.   Tony   First of all I really can't agree with your statement about Widor "stumbling" through the piece. yes, he recorded it at something like the age of 88 but he was still playing weekly at that point. yes, he made some mistakes but don't we all <G> And also remember, in the days that recording was done there was no such thing as "editing" as we knew it - they recorded what they recorded, mistakes and all. Also, if you read the "Critical Commentary" in the Preface to John Near's Edition of the Symphonie he discusses the "liberties" that Widor took during that recording, which btw, is at the speed that is marked in the Near Edition - quarter =3D 100.   Having studied the Fifth Symphonie with someone who was a student of Widor's, knowing how my teacher played it and learned it from Widor and listening to that recording I think it is THE DEFINITIVE recording of how the Toccata should be played.   I have listened to Widor's recording numerous times following along with the score that I used when I learned the piece, with notations from Dr. Becker,: his score, which I have in my possession, that has markings in Widor's hand from when Dr. Becker studied the piece with Widor; and also the Near Edition. All of them agree with what is on the recording with some very slight variations or "liberties" as Near calls them.     >The music, as written, is quite clear as to how to play this piece. >Tempo speed and technique are documented. Each and EVERY note has a dot >above it to indicate that the note is NOT to be held for the indicated >duration. Why then, does every version I have listened to (with the >exception of two organists) have all the notes run together legato style >rather than staccato as written.   Instead of trying to listen to various recordings to learn how to play the piece why don't you purchase the John Near Edition of the Symphonie? If you did that you might be able to play it the way that it was meant by the composer.   Actually, you are wrong in your statement above about EACH AND EVERY note having a staccato mark over it. There are actually slurs over the first two notes of each figuration and there is an accent mark for the first quarter of the repeated chords in the left hand, not a staccato mark. Here again, get the Near Edition of the Symphonie!   If you really want to learn the correct way, go to the sources, don't depend on listening to some recordings to learn a piece. I would also suggest that you get your hands on John Wilson's "The Organ Symphonies of Charles Marie Widor" and also John Near's "The Life and Work of Charles-Marie Widor". Both of those works discuss the Symphonies and I think each of them has a section devoted to the Toccata.   Also, remember, that Widor did minor revisions during the course of his life to all of his works. And there are numerous editions, actually something like 5 editions published during Widor's lifetime. And there are various published copies of these editions floating around, all of which contain some variants of the Toccata. That is why the Near Edition is so essential since he takes all of these variations and has come up with a "critical" edition of the symphonies.   >I am only guessing, but Widor >may have attempted to compensate for the somewhat spongy feel of the >organ by shortening the note but the end result to the ear would be somewhat legato due to the sluggish response of the organ.   I would suggest another possible scenario the infancy of the recording techniques back in 1932. Remember St. Sulpice is a large reverberant space - I wonder if the recording equipment of that time was really able to deal with the mass of sound in that space. Some of what that I hear regarding the staccato in some sections I have to attribute to the lack of the microphones being able to pick up clearly what is being played. But listening very critically, i can tell that the staccato and accents are there - only lost somewhat in the mass of sound.   David    
(back) Subject: Olpihant the elephant? From: "Richard Schneider" <arpschneider@starband.net> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 00:10:23 -0600   Mac Hayes wrote:   <Olpihant Chuckerbutty> > I am familiar with this name; I have to ask- do the English express the > same mirth (internal smile/ loud guffaw) that Americans do, when > uttering this name aloud?   The first time I ever heard this name, I honestly thought someone was JOKING.   Try saying it quickly many times over and you'll usually wind-up with the name Elephant Chunky-Butt! Faithfully,   -- Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com SHOP EMAIL mailto:arp@starband.net SHOP SATELLITE EMAIL mailto:arpschneider@starband.net HOME OFFICE EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL    
(back) Subject: NYC This Sunday, Any Suggestions. From: "Jonathan Roussos" <jroussos@san.rr.com> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:30:32 -0800   I will be in New York this Sunday, staying in Midtown Manhattan. Any suggestions as to how to hear as many instruments as possible in the short time available.   Thanks Jon Roussos    
(back) Subject: Re: HUGE Schantz! From: "Peter Harrison" <peter@phmusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:37:54 -0000       Mac Hayes <mach37@mindspring.com> wrote: || ... Olpihant Chuckerbutty || I am familiar with this name ...do the English express the same mirth (internal smile/ loud guffaw) that Americans do, when uttering this name aloud?   A gentle internal smile is permitted though a loud guffaw would be seen as less than polite!   Peter M Harrison Director of Music, Emmanuel Church, Holcombe   & P H Music : 48 Moorfield : Edgworth Bolton : Lancs : BL7 0DH : GB fax: +44 (0)1204 853445 : tel: +44 (0)1204 853310 web: www.phmusic.co.uk