PipeChat Digest #3238 - Monday, November 18, 2002
 
Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th.
  by "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net>
Re: Fox & Biggs Interpretations
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Fox, Biggs, and Authenticity
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Fox & Biggs Interpretations
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th.
  by "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net>
Re: Thanks to all &  Messiah on organ questions
  by <l2nn@juno.com>
Bach's Passacaglia and a liturgical year
  by "Marek Miskowicz" <miskow@uci.agh.edu.pl>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th. From: "Mark W. McClellan" <omicron@prairieinet.net> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:44:09 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00E7_01C28E8A.D78B3210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable     ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Ray Ahrens=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 10:21 PM Subject: Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th.   That was a good one!       Well, duh!!!   They've both been dead for a number of years!! I'll bet they haven't = =3D done any research in a long time.   I would never use Biggs or Fox as a definative performance of ANY =3D baroque music. Their registrational and interpretive devices are not =3D in-line with any of the performance practices that have been discovered = =3D recently.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00E7_01C28E8A.D78B3210 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns:v xmlns:o><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type =3D content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY id=3D3DMailContainerBody=3D20 style=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; =3D BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; =3D BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: =3D none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none"=3D20 bgColor=3D3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D3D0 topMargin=3D3D0 name=3D3D"Compose = message =3D area"=3D20 CanvasTabStop=3D3D"true" acc_role=3D3D"text"> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DRay_Ahrens@msn.com href=3D3D"mailto:Ray_Ahrens@msn.com">Ray = =3D Ahrens</A>=3D20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 17, 2002 = =3D 10:21=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Proper execution = =3D of Widor=3D20 Toccata from the 5th.</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">That was a good one!</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Well, duh!!!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>They've both been dead for a number of years!!&nbsp; I'll bet =3D they=3D20 haven=3D92t done any research in a long time.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>I would never use = =3D Biggs or Fox=3D20 as a definative performance of ANY baroque music. &nbsp;Their =3D registrational=3D20 and interpretive devices are not in-line with any of the performance = =3D   practices that have been discovered=3D20 recently.</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00E7_01C28E8A.D78B3210--    
(back) Subject: Re: Fox & Biggs Interpretations From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:17:24 EST     --part1_55.31761c11.2b09d1e4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/17/2002 7:41:14 PM Central Standard Time, Kzimmer0817@aol.com writes:     > the lay public seems to like them. >   the lay public is stupid-look at the other music they like-look where = music has gone over the last 30 years. straight down-99% is mediocre!   -Bach were alive today and realized that he could have an imitation (or = fake) pipe organ in his own home on which to practice, I think he'd be excited about it.   If Bach were alive today he would be wealthy enough to have a large pipe organ in his home and would certainly have the common sense and ears of a genius to notice the differences between electronic and pipe. He would realise that the grandeur of rich pipe sonorities are impossible to = reproduce with speakers. If he would play electronics, Allen would probably fire = Diane Bish and higher Bach as their tonal advisor. Come on now...he had many harpsichords and a few organs in his possession at the time of his death. = If he were around he would be the most celebrated organist just because of = his improvisational skills-let alone his compositional prowess.   Because of his style of counterpoint-crescendi and diminuendi can be heard =   without a swell box.   The fact is that Bach played tracker action instruments and worked with = both Arp Schnitger and Gottfried Silbermann in desiging them. Don't think for = a minute that the organs that Bach played didn't have any balls-cause it = just ain't so! Many of them have pedal divisions with 32' flues and reeds, = 10-2/3 and 5-1/3 quints-these are POWERFUL!   --part1_55.31761c11.2b09d1e4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/17/2002 7:41:14 PM Central Standard Time, Kzimmer0817@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">the lay public = seems to like them. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>the lay public is stupid-look at the other music they like-look where = music has gone over the last 30 years. &nbsp;straight down-99% is = mediocre! <BR> <BR>-Bach were alive today and realized that he could have an imitation = (or fake) pipe organ in his own home on which to practice, I think he'd be = excited about it. <BR> <BR>If Bach were alive today he would be wealthy enough to have a large = pipe organ in his home and would certainly have the common sense and ears = of a genius to notice the differences between electronic and pipe. = &nbsp;He would realise that the grandeur of rich pipe sonorities are = impossible to reproduce with speakers. &nbsp;If he would play electronics, = Allen would probably fire Diane Bish and higher Bach as their tonal = advisor. &nbsp;Come on now...he had many harpsichords and a few organs in = his possession at the time of his death. &nbsp;If he were around he would = be the most celebrated organist just because of his improvisational = skills-let alone his compositional prowess. <BR> <BR>Because of his style of counterpoint-crescendi and diminuendi can be = heard without a swell box. <BR> <BR>The fact is that Bach played tracker action instruments and worked = with both Arp Schnitger and Gottfried Silbermann in desiging them. = &nbsp;Don't think for a minute that the organs that Bach played didn't = have any balls-cause it just ain't so! &nbsp;Many of them have pedal = divisions with 32' flues and reeds, 10-2/3 and 5-1/3 quints-these are = POWERFUL! &nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_55.31761c11.2b09d1e4_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Fox, Biggs, and Authenticity From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:22:14 EST     --part1_146.2e84c7e.2b09d306_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/17/2002 9:35:41 PM Central Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes:     > Play thoughtfully, and think playfully. >   what a neat quote! gfc   --part1_146.2e84c7e.2b09d306_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/17/2002 9:35:41 PM Central Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Play thoughtfully, = and think playfully. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>what a neat quote! <BR>gfc</FONT></HTML>   --part1_146.2e84c7e.2b09d306_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Fox & Biggs Interpretations From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 00:25:32 EST     --part1_b7.2a268e29.2b09d3cc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   then why do 20th century violinists prefer 17th century violins? the same =   applies for organs-as the wood matures and the pipes age a real magical = sound comes out. let alone the way the keys feel--I had the opportunity to play = a Taskin harpsichord a few months back-its keys felt better than anything I have touched in my life--no joke. greg   --part1_b7.2a268e29.2b09d3cc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>then why do 20th = century violinists prefer 17th century violins? &nbsp;the same applies for = organs-as the wood matures and the pipes age a real magical sound comes = out. &nbsp;let alone the way the keys feel--I had the opportunity to play = a Taskin harpsichord a few months back-its keys felt better than anything = I have touched in my life--no joke. <BR>greg</FONT></HTML>   --part1_b7.2a268e29.2b09d3cc_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th. From: "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 01:35:46 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C28EA2.D10E0BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Greg,   Having had the privilege in my youth of spending time at the bench with = =3D Biggs, who was a close friend of my teacher, I must say that I reject =3D your premise that he took a "romantic" approach to playing Baroque =3D music. As a rule, he was criticized for playing too "straight"! Fox =3D being first among his critics ...   As for the use of the heel in pedaling, I was taught to play toe-toe =3D AND toe-heel technique ... Do you honestly believe that Bach, who =3D developed the use of all 10 fingers on the keyboard never used his heel = =3D on the pedalboard? As for registration, Bach was notoriously unorthodox = =3D and dramatic at the organ according to historians. He rarely indicated = =3D registration on his manuscripts, and when he did so, it was only in the = =3D most general of terms.   "Truthful" Bach performance requires registering contrasts of color =3D between divisions and the judicious use of couplers....The ART of Organ = =3D Playing. If you are at all familiar with the historic organs of Germany = =3D and the Netherlands, you must be aware that you will not find a piston, = =3D swell box, or crescendo shoe any where in sight. On these organs LESS =3D is MORE. The addition or retiring of 1 or 2 stops in a division, or =3D adding a big reed in the pedal under the principal chorus (8' to =3D Mixtures), or coupling divisions together on a Schnitger or Silbermann =3D organ has a profound and dramatic effect! To compare playing the =3D Harpsichord to the Organ is misguided.   Cheers,   Tim ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Gfc234@aol.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Proper execution of Widor Toccata from the 5th.     I would never use Biggs or Fox as a definative performance of ANY =3D baroque music. Their registrational and interpretive devices are not =3D in-line with any of the performance practices that have been discovered = =3D recently. Not to say that I don't love Biggs' Bach recordings, but they = =3D are simply romanticized-full of heel pedalings, flamboyant registrations = =3D including massive cresendi and decrescendi on plenum fugues etc.....=3D20 I think the key to getting truthful Bach performances is to reevaluate = =3D how you look at the organ-look at it more like a harpsichord (an =3D instrument whose sound can not change much). make music-don't rely on =3D stop changes for drama.=3D20 greg. ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C28EA2.D10E0BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Greg,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Having had the privilege in my youth = of =3D spending=3D20 time at the bench with Biggs, who was a close friend of my teacher, I =3D must say=3D20 that I reject your premise that he took a "romantic" approach to playing = =3D Baroque=3D20 music.&nbsp; As a rule, he was criticized for playing too =3D "straight"!&nbsp; Fox=3D20 being first among his critics ...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>As for the use of the heel in =3D pedaling,&nbsp; I was=3D20 taught to play toe-toe AND toe-heel technique ... Do you honestly =3D believe that=3D20 Bach, who developed the use of all 10 fingers on the keyboard never used = =3D his=3D20 heel on the pedalboard?&nbsp; As for registration, Bach was = notoriously=3D20 unorthodox and dramatic at the organ according to historians.&nbsp; He =3D rarely=3D20 indicated registration on his manuscripts, and when he did so, it was =3D only in=3D20 the most general of terms.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>"Truthful" Bach performance requires = =3D registering=3D20 contrasts of color between divisions and the judicious use of =3D couplers....The=3D20 ART of Organ Playing.&nbsp; If you are at all familiar with the historic = =3D organs=3D20 of Germany and the Netherlands, you must be aware that you will not find = =3D a=3D20 piston, swell box, or crescendo shoe any where in sight.&nbsp; On these = =3D organs=3D20 LESS is MORE.&nbsp; The addition or retiring of 1 or 2 stops in a =3D division, or=3D20 adding a big reed in the pedal under the principal chorus (8' to =3D Mixtures), or=3D20 coupling divisions together on a Schnitger or Silbermann organ has a =3D profound=3D20 and dramatic effect!&nbsp; To compare playing the Harpsichord to the =3D Organ is=3D20 misguided.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tim</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DGfc234@aol.com =3D href=3D3D"mailto:Gfc234@aol.com">Gfc234@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 17, 2002 = =3D 1:36=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Proper execution = =3D of Widor=3D20 Toccata from the 5th.</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>I would = =3D never use Biggs=3D20 or Fox as a definative performance of ANY baroque music. = &nbsp;Their=3D20 registrational and interpretive devices are not in-line with any of =3D the=3D20 performance practices that have been discovered recently. &nbsp;Not to = =3D say=3D20 that I don't love Biggs' Bach recordings, but they are simply=3D20 romanticized-full of heel pedalings, flamboyant registrations =3D including=3D20 massive cresendi and decrescendi on <B>plenum</B> fugues etc..... =3D <BR>I think=3D20 the key to getting truthful Bach performances is to reevaluate how you = =3D look at=3D20 the organ-look at it &nbsp;more like a harpsichord (an instrument =3D whose sound=3D20 can not change much). make music-don't rely on stop changes for drama. = =3D   <BR>greg.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000F_01C28EA2.D10E0BC0--    
(back) Subject: Re: Thanks to all & Messiah on organ questions From: <l2nn@juno.com> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:40:16 -0800   This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   ----__JNP_000_5808.4aff.1e5f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I wrote the list months ago asking for repertoire suggestions and I am very grateful for many of you who responded and gave me informative and wonderful suggestions! I ran and got 90% of what everyone recommended and love the discoveries I'm making now! Thank you!!!! (Pet peeve: all those years studying piano and NO ONE mentioned the organ and its utterly rich repertoire to me! Such a treasure trove! This repertoire has been (along with choral repertoire) the stunned delight and exuberant joy of every day of my life for the last 2.5 years!)   Having just been told that I have to play organ for a Messiah performance at a local church with 3 weeks until the date, I'm wondering about certain things. (The organist/baritone who was going to do it is being required to sing the bass solos since a bass has not been found yet. But he's never played it on organ either.) I have never played organ for Messiah before. I've only played it on harpsichord twice using a Rutgers University Press realized continuo part which is excellent and which I borrowed from a university library which still leaves room for improvisation and supplements the orchestra; it is not, thank goodness, an orchestral reduction! I have a grey Schirmer score for organ edited/done by 2 people which is an orchestral reduction but which an organist I ran into recently told me is not that good. He said it's too thin in parts and he doesn't like it overall. He said he prefers just using the Schirmer piano/vocal reduction and just selects what he thinks is best in the spur of the moment to play on organ. He also loves the Rutgers Univ. Press edition when playing harpsichord. I have used this edition for choir rehearsals but I certainly have not yet arrived at my "selection" of what works best. He mentioned a C.F. Peters edition which he uses only for the bass solos since they're more "filled out".   The new Allen Renaissance 2M I'll be using has harpsichords on it: 8', 16 & 8', and 8' & 4'. The music director recommended I use harpsichord for the solos and organ for the choruses. The chorus is about 30. The orchestra will be small, about 12 to 15. So I will use the Rutgers edition for the solos. What should I use for the organ score? The Schirmer organ score does not attract me since I noticed more doublings of orchestral parts in exposed places than I think is necessary. I think strings should play alone in places and not have an organ doubling them! I would need to heavily edit the score adding and omitting things. The score did not appear trustworthy.   Someone told me that if they were asked to play Messiah on organ, they would expect $1500 for all the work and the setup of registrations one must do. Is this opinion in the ballpark?   My level/background: I have a MM in piano and a minor in harpsichord (work-study was in accompanying); I've studied organ for 2.5 years now and got my first church job after 5 months of study. I passed the AGO Service Playing exam this past summer   Any suggestions for scores or ways to perform this work given the above?   Thanks for all and any feedback,   Lynn near Oakland, CA ----__JNP_000_5808.4aff.1e5f Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; = charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bottomMargin=3D3D0 leftMargin=3D3D3 topMargin=3D3D0 = rightMargin=3D3D3> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I wrote the list months ago asking for repertoire suggestions and I = am=3D very=3D20 grateful for many of you who responded and gave me informative and =3D wonderful=3D20 suggestions! I ran and got 90% of what everyone recommended and love the=3D20 discoveries I'm making now!&nbsp; Thank you!!!! (Pet peeve: all those = years=3D =3D20 studying piano and NO ONE mentioned the organ and its utterly rich =3D repertoire to=3D20 me! Such a treasure trove! This repertoire has been (along with = choral=3D20 repertoire) the stunned delight and exuberant joy of every day of my life = =3D for=3D20 the last 2.5 years!)</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Having just been told that I have to play organ for a Messiah =3D performance=3D20 at a local church with 3 weeks until the date, I'm wondering about = certain=3D =3D20 things.&nbsp; (The organist/baritone who was going to do it is being =3D required to=3D20 sing the bass solos since a bass has not been found yet.&nbsp; But he's = =3D never=3D20 played it on organ either.) I have never played organ for Messiah = before.&=3D nbsp;=3D20 I've only played it on harpsichord twice using a Rutgers University = Press=3D20 realized continuo part which is excellent and which I borrowed from a =3D university=3D20 library which still leaves room for improvisation and supplements the =3D orchestra;=3D20 it is not, thank goodness, an orchestral reduction!&nbsp; I have a grey = =3D Schirmer=3D20 score for organ&nbsp;edited/done by 2 people which is an orchestral =3D reduction=3D20 but which an organist I ran into recently told me is not that good.&nbsp; = =3D He=3D20 said it's too thin in parts and he doesn't like it overall.&nbsp; He said = =3D he=3D20 prefers just using the Schirmer piano/vocal reduction and just = <EM>selects<=3D /EM>=3D20 what he thinks is best in the spur of the moment to play on organ.&nbsp; = He=3D also=3D20 loves the Rutgers Univ. Press edition when playing harpsichord.&nbsp; I = =3D have=3D20 used this edition for choir rehearsals but I certainly have not yet = arrived=3D at=3D20 my "selection" of what works best.&nbsp; He mentioned a C.F. Peters = edition=3D =3D20 which he uses only for the bass solos since they're more "filled = out".</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>The new Allen Renaissance 2M I'll be using has harpsichords on it: = 8',=3D 16=3D20 &amp; 8', and 8' &amp; 4'.&nbsp; The music director recommended I use=3D20 harpsichord for the solos and organ for the choruses. The chorus is = about=3D20 30.&nbsp; The orchestra will be small, about 12 to 15.&nbsp; So I will use = =3D the=3D20 Rutgers edition for the solos.&nbsp; What should I use for the organ=3D20 score?&nbsp; The Schirmer organ score does not attract me since I noticed = =3D more=3D20 doublings of orchestral parts in exposed places than I think is = necessary.&=3D nbsp;=3D20 I think strings should play alone in places and not have an organ = doubling=3D =3D20 them!&nbsp; I would need to heavily edit the score adding and = omitting=3D20 things.&nbsp; The score did not appear trustworthy.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Someone told me that if they were asked to play Messiah on organ, = they=3D =3D20 would expect $1500 for all the work and the setup of registrations one = must=3D =3D20 do.&nbsp; Is this opinion in the ballpark?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>My level/background: I have a MM in piano and a minor in = harpsichord=3D20 (work-study was in accompanying); I've studied organ for 2.5 years now and = =3D got=3D20 my first church job after 5 months of study.&nbsp; I passed the AGO = Service=3D =3D20 Playing exam this past summer</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Any suggestions for scores or ways to perform this work given = the=3D20 above?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Thanks for all and any feedback,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Lynn</DIV> <DIV>near Oakland, CA</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ----__JNP_000_5808.4aff.1e5f--    
(back) Subject: Bach's Passacaglia and a liturgical year From: "Marek Miskowicz" <miskow@uci.agh.edu.pl> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:36:01 +0100 (CET)     > Marek, > Wow, I think you have just written the BEST post I've ever read on this = list! > Thanks so much, you must have really studied your organ history or = teach it > now! Since you had such an in-depth answer about the Passacaglia, do = you > know the original folk song that Bach based the g minor fugue (from = fantasia > and fugue) on? I have been searching for months... > Good day, off to church now! > Gregory.   Thanks, Gregory. The issue of passacaglia has haunted me for many years. I studied it quite much. I found among other things a novel titled "Passacaille" written by French writer Robert Pinget which is based on the passacaglia form. The construction of this work is, like in music, based on the idea of repetition. Throught the whole work the "refrain" consisting of words "Stile. Grau...." appears (in German translation) and talks about the death of running time.   And the other problem. Maybe somebody could help me. A few years ago during an organ masterclass Marie-Clair Alain said that the variations of Bach's Passacaglia are composed according to the liturgical year. Each variation is based on some choral melody: from the first - Nun kom der Heiden Heiland to the last - Pentecost chorales (I don't remember the titles of all chorales which Marie-Clair Alain has mentioned). I have not found any confirmation of this suggestion in papers and works about Bach's Passacaglia. Maybe somebody can identify some of them on the basis of melodic material of particular variation?   Regards,   Marek Miskowicz Cracow, Poland   P.S. Gregory, I will look for the title of the folk song from the g minor fugue.