PipeChat Digest #3256 - Sunday, November 24, 2002
 
Noels in minor key
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Stolen Organ Pipes Missing link
  by "danielwh1" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
JW Steere organ
  by "ebie" <ebie@nycap.rr.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
re minor key french noels
  by "Jonathan B. Hall" <jonathan@jonathanbhall.com>
Re: Noels in minor key
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Noels in Minor Key
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: JW Steere organ
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: Noels in minor key From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:39:07 EST     --part1_f6.24b9abfc.2b12307b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/24/2002 12:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:   > I don't necessarily associate minor keys with sadness, but I was = practicing > them and my other half groused "Those don't sound very CHRISTMAS-Y." = They > don't have individual titles to evoke any images. This made me think = that > I should > put in some note of explanation. I'd appreciate your thoughts. >   Chuck and others..... I admit my approach is simple minded. (1). Why are =   you playing Christmas music to begin with? Is it not to cause people to reflect on Advent? (2). With all the beautiful Christmas music out there = in more cheerful major keys, why is it even necessary to play these pieces? (3). If program notes are necessary in a worship service to explain away = a piece, maybe the piece doesn't need to be played. (4). If this is a = special service of Christmas music, then Yes, a brief explanation of what aspect = of Advent this piece is trying to portray musically.   Like it or not, I believe that music for the worship service is for the congregation - both those who listen attentively and those who do not. If =   they don't understand it, then it's no loftier than having the radio tuned = to public radio while you do something at home.   Keith   --part1_f6.24b9abfc.2b12307b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#c0c0c0"><FONT = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated = 11/24/2002 12:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, pipechat@pipechat.org = writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I don't = necessarily associate minor keys with sadness, but I was practicing them = and my other half groused "Those don't sound very CHRISTMAS-Y."&nbsp; They = don't have individual titles to evoke any images.&nbsp; This made me think = that I should <BR> put in some note of explanation. I'd appreciate your thoughts.<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> Chuck and others.....&nbsp; I admit my approach is simple minded.&nbsp; = (1). Why are you playing Christmas music to begin with?&nbsp; Is it not to = cause people to reflect on Advent?&nbsp; (2). With all the beautiful = Christmas music out there in more cheerful major keys, why is it even = necessary to play these pieces?&nbsp; (3).&nbsp; If program notes are = necessary in a worship service to explain away a piece, maybe the piece = doesn't need to be played.&nbsp; (4).&nbsp; If this is a special service = of Christmas music, then Yes, a brief explanation of what aspect of Advent = this piece is trying to portray musically.<BR> <BR> Like it or not, I believe that music for the worship service is for the = congregation - both those who listen attentively and those who do = not.&nbsp; If they don't understand it, then it's no loftier than having = the radio tuned to public radio while you do something at home.<BR> <BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_f6.24b9abfc.2b12307b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Stolen Organ Pipes Missing link From: "danielwh1" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:58:32 -0400   Sorry for the missing link I guess it well suits the subject http://cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/1999/11/16/mb_organpipes161199     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 20/11/2002  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 16:01:18 +0200   I'm sorry the Wards were not happy with the reception they received at St John's Holland Road - I haven't been there for 25 years or so, and then it was in the role of organist for a record called "A concert from Altenberg Abbey" with the Boy Singers of Our Lady of Grace, a Catholic Choir. The organ was a little unreliable, but there was nothing that could not be = coped with, and there are plenty of quiet stops on it - how the present organist uses it I do not know. Personally I'm not very keen on the happy clappy evangelical type service, but I believe that within God's house there are many mansions. I would certainly not wish to criticise other people's methods and beliefs. It seems rather commendable to me that someone should wish to make a lifetimes offering of the sort RW refers to in a rather negative way. I was under the impression that he was a pastor. If this is the case I suggest a little Christian charity is called for. www.johnfoss.gr  
(back) Subject: JW Steere organ From: "ebie" <ebie@nycap.rr.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:17:43 -0500   Hello to you organ aficionados...   I am currently writing a National Register nomination for a former = Episcopal church in Troy, New York. The church is significant for its architecture = but I am told that the organ also has particular value. Not knowing anything about organs, I would like to request your assistance.   The church was built in 1895 and designed by an unknown architect. Its original name was the St. Barnabus and Paul Episcopal Church. The organ is stamped with the manufacturer, "J W Steere & Sons Springfield, Mass." = From my pictures I took, I note that there are 29 pipes above the organ itself with another 13 around the corner. There are 9 stops on the right and at least 2 (my photo is not very good) on the left.   I understand that JW Steere was a prominent organ manufacturer but I know nothing else of them. Given the information that I provided, can anyone = tell me more about this type of organ or of the company itself?   Your assistance is VERY much appreciated!   Thanks, Elisabeth       "Having a child fall asleep in your arms is one of the most peaceful feelings in the world."      
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:16:38 -0500   Dear John, I find it ironic. It is only by my Catholic parish going the way of distracting, uninspiring music with a pastor who can only talk of motorcycles and his favorite State University that I went and think I = found an Episcopal church which fits my needs for some spiritual time of peace = on Sunday and a feeling of community. As the Episcopal pastor preached Sunday before last, that the return to Bells and Smells began not in the wealthy parishes in England but in the poor parishes during the industrial revolution when the people wanted to drown out the noises and smells surrounding them outside of the church. I guess because of my background = of Catholic choir music, organ and altar, a return of the Episcopal Church to pre-Henry VIII Anglican services, with their rich heritage of chant and inspiration is not a bad idea. Oliver Cromwell was "Lord Protector" and = not "Defender of the Faith." Paul   ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:01 AM Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road     > I'm sorry the Wards were not happy with the reception they received at = St > John's Holland Road - I haven't been there for 25 years or so, and then = it > was in the role of organist for a record called "A concert from = Altenberg > Abbey" with the Boy Singers of Our Lady of Grace, a Catholic Choir. The > organ was a little unreliable, but there was nothing that could not be coped > with, and there are plenty of quiet stops on it - how the present = organist > uses it I do not know. Personally I'm not very keen on the happy clappy > evangelical type service, but I believe that within God's house there = are > many mansions. I would certainly not wish to criticise other people's > methods and beliefs. It seems rather commendable to me that someone = should > wish to make a lifetimes offering of the sort RW refers to in a rather > negative way. I was under the impression that he was a pastor. If this = is > the case I suggest a little Christian charity is called for. > www.johnfoss.gr > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: re minor key french noels From: "Jonathan B. Hall" <jonathan@jonathanbhall.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 09:24:26 -0800 (PST)   Hi, List--   Charles asked about explaining the minor mode of certain french noels. I don't think this requires a single word of explanation. Equating the minor with "sadness" is simply a false esthetic. "We three kings," "What Child is This," "God rest ye merry Gentlemen," "On This Day," "Twas in the moon of wintertime," 'O Come, O Come, Emanuel" (which is not a sad song, and Advent is not a sad season!!!!)--and other beloved and happy pieces of our tradition are in the minor key, and are not "sad."   I tend to ignore such quibbles from the well-meaning but uninformed, and go right ahead with planning the best music I know how. For this lessons and carols, I fully expect to play a minor-key noel or two, and they will not be apologized for or contextualized...   Anyhow, that's my take on the subject. If someone told me "that doesn't sound like Christmas!" I'd want to reply "And you don't look like Farrah Fawcett-Majors, but I'm dealing with it." I wouldn't say that, but I'd probably think it.... :)   This morning a lady rather pushily besought me to play Wachet Auf during Advent, and then informed me that she wouldn't be coming to that service anyway, as it's not the "rite" she prefers...so I pointed out that Wachet Auf is not historically an Advent piece anyway, but designed for a recent sunday with the gospel of the wise and foolish bridesmaids, and left it at that. The older I get, the less willing I am to indulge and enable this kind of stuff...   Take care!   J  
(back) Subject: Re: Noels in minor key From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:38:34 EST     --part1_36.321de8c8.2b1276aa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I think that the key to pleasing a congregation is playing something with = a memorable melody. You have probably noticed that many parishoners leave church with a song stuck in their head. As western music developed out of =   chant, composers began to write more tuneful and memorable melodies. Eventually the Council of Trent met and abolished all tropes = (embellishments of the chant repertory ...i.e. academic works of music involving the use = of highly complex cannonic writing, the use of polytextual motets etc...) because the congregations simply could not relate to the music. They also =   abolised the use of secular tunes as cantus firmuses. Martin Luther's response to that was, " Why should the devil have all the good tunes." I truly think that it is almost a waste of time to loose sleep worrying = about what to play. So few people these days are in tune with the liturgical = year as compared to 300 years ago, that any catchy music certainly will suffice-major or minor. How many people in the average congregation will = be able to sing or think of the words to a hymn when you play a chorale = prelude? I would guess one or two at best. Not to say that catchy music can't be liturgically correct...Just have fun and play some good songs for people = to enjoy! Don't worry-be happy! Greg   --part1_36.321de8c8.2b1276aa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think that the key to = pleasing a congregation is playing something with a memorable melody. = &nbsp;You have probably noticed that many parishoners leave church with a = song stuck in their head. &nbsp;As western music developed out of chant, = composers began to write more tuneful and memorable melodies. = &nbsp;Eventually the Council of Trent met and abolished all tropes = (embellishments of the chant repertory ...i.e. academic works of music = involving the use of highly complex cannonic writing, the use of = polytextual motets etc...) because the congregations simply could not = relate to the music. &nbsp;They also abolised the use of secular tunes as = cantus firmuses. &nbsp;Martin Luther's response to that was, " Why should = the devil have all the good tunes." &nbsp;I truly think that it is almost = a waste of time to loose sleep worrying about what to play. &nbsp;So few = people these days are in tune with the liturgical year as compared to 300 = years ag <BR>Greg</FONT></HTML>   --part1_36.321de8c8.2b1276aa_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Noels in Minor Key From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:03:12 EST     --part1_62.29068314.2b127c70_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   As soon as I sent the previous message, I had the feeling that I had = sounded a little too dogmatic for a couple reasons.   (1). No, not all music must be "understood" by the congregation in order = to set the tone for the worship service. I just feel that, if too much explaining is needed, then the effect is lost - at least in a worship = service setting as opposed to a "service of worship in music and organ.   (2). I do see a place, tho', for music in a minor key even at Christmas. =   (This is not a sermon). Chrismas, in essence, is a bittersweet = celebration for the Christian. It's easy to get caught up in the "sweetness" aspect = of Christmas consisting of the little baby in a manger surrounded by Mary, Joseph, shepherds, animals, the angels, and the star above.   Christmas, tho', means nothing more than any other holiday if one forgets = to consider that Christmas is a prelude to Easter, with Christ's Passion = coming right before Easter. Given that Christ's suffering, crucifixion, burial, = and resurrection were already planned and had been foretold long before His birth, or incarnation, the celebration of Christmas does include elements = of joy, sadness, and exultation.   I'm reminded about a picture that someone told me about years ago - I = don't know if it really exists or if it was somebody's idea for a painting. The =   image depicted Mary sweeping inside the house. The Lad Jesus was standing = in the doorway with his feet together and his arms outstretched hanging onto = the pillars of the door casing - like kids will do. The light coming around = him cast the shadow of a cross onto the floor - and that was being observed by =   Mary with some degree of emotion. No one knows how much of what was to = come Mary really knew.   Of course we can look back on the events with hindsight just like we're at =   the temporary end of the movie awaiting the sequel. As the shepherds = knealt beside the manger, they tho't they were welcoming their earthly king who would rescue them from Rome. As we kneel, we can visualize much more than =   simply a little babe in the manger, since we know what happens later, what =   He'll go thru on our behalfs, that He's risen and not dead, and that He's promised to return some day to take away His own.   How we interpret these emotions through our music is exciting. Given all that, I guess some kind of brief explanation might be helpful if placed in =   the bulletin.   Gee, now I'm really getting excited about Christmas music. I hope I've explained myself adequately.   BTW, I'm taking the liberty of posting a little story I heard on the radio = 2 years ago entitled, The Innkeeper. It's what might have happened if Jesus =   happened to stop by the Inn (which had been full at the time of His birth) = as he returned to Jerusalem right before His crucifixion. I confess that I = got a little choked up as I read it for my Sunday School class last year. = It's mainly an Easter story, but it's quite appropriate for Christmas.   Merry Christmas (not Happy Holiday), Keith   --part1_62.29068314.2b127c70_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> As soon as I sent the previous message, I had the feeling that I had = sounded a little too dogmatic for a couple reasons.<BR> <BR> (1).&nbsp; No, not all music must be "understood" by the congregation in = order to set the tone for the worship service.&nbsp; I just feel that, if = too much explaining is needed, then the effect is lost - at least in a = worship service setting as opposed to a "service of worship in music and = organ.<BR> <BR> (2).&nbsp; I do see a place, tho', for music in a minor key even at = Christmas.&nbsp; (This is not a sermon).&nbsp; Chrismas, in essence, is a = bittersweet celebration for the Christian.&nbsp; It's easy to get caught up in the "sweetness" aspect of Christmas consisting of the little = baby in a manger surrounded by Mary, Joseph, shepherds, animals, the = angels, and the star above.<BR> <BR> Christmas, tho', means nothing more than any other holiday if one forgets = to consider that Christmas is a prelude to Easter, with Christ's Passion = coming right before Easter.&nbsp; Given that Christ's suffering, = crucifixion, burial, and resurrection were already planned and had been = foretold long before His birth, or incarnation, the celebration of = Christmas does include elements of joy, sadness, and exultation.<BR> <BR> I'm reminded about a picture that someone told me about years ago - I = don't know if it really exists or if it was somebody's idea for a = painting.&nbsp; The image depicted Mary sweeping inside the house.&nbsp; = The Lad Jesus was standing in the doorway with his feet together and his = arms outstretched hanging onto the pillars of the door casing - like kids = will do.&nbsp; The light coming around him cast the shadow of a cross onto = the floor - and that was being observed by Mary with some degree of = emotion.&nbsp; No one knows how much of what was to come Mary really = knew.<BR> <BR> Of course we can look back on the events with hindsight just like we're at = the temporary end of the movie awaiting the sequel.&nbsp; As the shepherds = knealt beside the manger, they tho't they were welcoming their earthly = king who would rescue them from Rome.&nbsp; As we kneel, we can visualize = much more than simply a little babe in the manger, since we know what = happens later, what He'll go thru on our behalfs, that He's risen and not = dead, and that He's promised to return some day to take away His own. <BR> <BR> How we interpret these emotions through our music is exciting.&nbsp; Given = all that, I guess some kind of brief explanation might be helpful if = placed in the bulletin.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> Gee, now I'm really getting excited about Christmas music.&nbsp; I hope = I've explained myself adequately.<BR> <BR> BTW, I'm taking the liberty of posting a little story I heard on the radio = 2 years ago entitled, The Innkeeper.&nbsp; It's what might have happened = if Jesus happened to stop by the Inn (which had been full at the time of = His birth) as he returned to Jerusalem right before His crucifixion.&nbsp; = I confess that I got a little choked up as I read it for my Sunday School = class last year.&nbsp; It's mainly an Easter story, but it's quite = appropriate for Christmas.<BR> <BR> Merry Christmas (not Happy Holiday),<BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_62.29068314.2b127c70_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: JW Steere organ From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:07:50 -0600   A quick check on Google turned up quite a number of entries. I suggest = you consult Orphe Ochse, The History of Organbuilding in the United States. = You might also consult back issues of the Tracker Magazine, as well as the = Organ Historical Society, and Organ Literature Foundation catalogues for many = other works on Steere. Roy Redman   ebie wrote:   > Hello to you organ aficionados... > > I am currently writing a National Register nomination for a former = Episcopal > church in Troy, New York. The church is significant for its architecture = but > I am told that the organ also has particular value. Not knowing anything > about organs, I would like to request your assistance. > > The church was built in 1895 and designed by an unknown architect. Its > original name was the St. Barnabus and Paul Episcopal Church. The organ = is > stamped with the manufacturer, "J W Steere & Sons Springfield, Mass." = From > my pictures I took, I note that there are 29 pipes above the organ = itself > with another 13 around the corner. There are 9 stops on the right and at > least 2 (my photo is not very good) on the left. > > I understand that JW Steere was a prominent organ manufacturer but I = know > nothing else of them. Given the information that I provided, can anyone = tell > me more about this type of organ or of the company itself? > > Your assistance is VERY much appreciated! > > Thanks, > Elisabeth > > "Having a child fall asleep in your arms is one of the most peaceful > feelings in the world." > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3254 - 11/23/02 St John's Holland Road From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:42:01 +1300   >negative way. I was under the impression that he was a pastor. If this is >the case I suggest a little Christian charity is called for. >www.johnfoss.gr   John, I am indeed an Anglican priest, and have been so for many years, but that is no reason for suporting the kind of stuff that I described. The place was an appalling display of how the Anglican Church can sometimes be so unfriendly and so weird that others not only feel strange there, but = are also made not welcome by the people themselves. How would you feel, if you were a clergyman wearing a clerical collar and went to a church and tried = to be friendly to the people and got only total refusal? How would you feel = if the Church you are a priest in thanked God that someone who has no status = in your Church was called the "Holy Father"? How would you feel if clergy = were doing and saying things that are forbidden by the very Church they were ordained into? I suggest that feeling "charitable" has no meaning there.   If people are what they are, then fine. In other words, I would not expect = a Baptist Church to be Anglo-Catholic. Nor would I expect a Roman Catholic church to be Russian Orthodox. When in an Anglican Church, though, be it very low or very high, or indeed when going to any kind of church = whatever, politeness is the very least one can expect.   Believe me, I am fulsome in my praise of those who accept others as human beings - in Holland Road, you would have been as revolted as I was.   Let me redress this sad episode by saying that it was, apart from the general coldness of the people at Durham (neither of the clergy bothered = to come down the central aisle to greet people after the Service) I have nothing but praise for the people I had contact with in Britain during my time there. I'd like to speak briefly of a few, so bear with me.   I recall the incredible warmth of the Roman Catholic Cenacle sisters in Liverpool where I stayed a night. Dear, dear people, their hospitality was the stuff of dreams. We talked for hours and hours and there was much hilarity. With me the only male present, dinner with them was great fun.   I think of the people of Bury St Edmunds Cathedral. I intended to have a quick look at the cathedral and move on, but spent four hours and felt = loved the whole time. It was no wonder to me that their congregation had been rising in numbers over the previous years. The town was a place I'd = happily live in, just on the basis of the cathedral people.   I think of St Paul's London where the Dean and Verger, to mention just = two, treated me like a brother and, in spite of what must be very busy lives, found time to talk and chat and show me round. The Dean even asked me to stay at his holiday home with him for a few days, but sadly time wouldn't permit me.   I think of Ely Cathedral, where, even though the place was due to close, they kept open for another two hours so I could have a quiet look round, = and then they opened the stained-glass museum specially just for me.   I think of Westminster Abbey, where they gave me a pass to park free and freely in Dean's Yard. Too, where they locked me in one night for two = hours after the tourists had gone home, to savour the Abbey when it was quiet = and peaceful.   I think of the wild welcome of the people of Bray and Laycock churches = when going to services with them.   I think of the churchwarden in Oxford who spent an entire day showing me places, taking me to dinner, sharing his home and family with me.   I think of the young lay parish assistant in a Cambridge parish who = invited me to stay with him in his flat - and I did, for three days. I'd love to know what happened to him, as he intended to apply for ordination = training.   I think of the tiny little high-church of St Matthew's Westminster where a very friendly Verger talked most knowledgeably about Comper and the "high-church" architects and their outlooks in the 19th century. His sheer delight in meeting someone from outside his own parish was a treat.   I think of the depth and warmth and peace of the people of Lindisfarne, despite their excruciatingly-frantic lives. I think of the Vicarage family at Berwick-upon-Tweed and their kindnesses over several days that made me feel like a member of their family.   I'm probably boring you by now, but I hope you get the picture.   Ross