PipeChat Digest #3264 - Saturday, November 30, 2002
 
Re: Aeolian-Skinner King of Instruments (was Greetings)
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com>
Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com>
IRC Reminder
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Aeolian-Skinner King of Instruments (was Greetings)
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
volume control and recordings
  by "Ray Kimber" <ray@kimber.com>
RE: Last Sunday before Advent FOR SURE
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: volume control and recordings
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
RE: Karg-Elert
  by "Jonathan" <jhumbert@ptd.net>
Re: Last Sunday before Advent FOR SURE
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
RE: Karg-Elert
  by "Andrew Caskie" <caskie@totalise.co.uk>
Not Quite on topic but still valuable reading
  by "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
RE: Last Sunday before Advent FOR SURE
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Aeolian-Skinner King of Instruments (was Greetings)
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Karg-Elert
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Soundproof Your Church!
  by "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com>
Re: Soundproof Your Church!
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Karg-Elert
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Aeolian-Skinner King of Instruments (was Greetings) From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 06:04:39 -0800   M Fox wrote: > ... > > By the way, Volume 24 -- the 2/17 Sipe with two 8' manual stops, both > stopped flutes, seems a little squeaky for a place in the "King of > Instruments" series ... >     It doesn't look good in print, but on the LP it sounds much like the Busch-Reisinger Flentrop recordings - pretty gutsy. For a not-large ultra-modern building there seems to be decent reverb.   Mac  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 06:10:39 -0800   "D. Keith Morgan" wrote: > ... > That sound "engineer" would turn the volume down on me > one time. I would turn the organ off and walk out of > the church. ...   As I wrote privately (I am too retiring) to Dennis S.: If it had been me in that situation, I would have have stopped playing immediately and had a consultation with the choir director, in front of the congregation, with much fingerpointing toward the source of the problem. I would not continue playing under those circumstances.   Mac Hayes Rosamond, CA  
(back) Subject: IRC Reminder From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:18:39 -0600   Just a reminder that the PipeChat IRC group will be meeting tonight, as they do every Monday and Friday nights, beginning at 9:00 PM EASTERN Time.   Although this is a holiday weekend where some regular members might be away travelling I am sure that there will be a good number of us on-line and we are always glad to welcome new members to the group. If you are new or haven't joined us recently, please make sure that you introduce yourself to the group.   If you need directions on how to connect to the PipeChat IRC server please go to the IRC pages on the PipeChat web site at: http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html If you are having problems connecting, please email me at this account - the Administration account - and either I or one of the other regular members of the IRC chat will get in contact with you to assist. I do monitor the Admin address during IRC sessions.   I hope to see many of the "regulars" on-line tonight along hopefully along with some new folks.   Davod -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Aeolian-Skinner King of Instruments (was Greetings) From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 10:20:06 -0500   On 11/28/02 11:56 PM, "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> wrote:   >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> >=20 >> 20. John Weaver at Holy Trinity Lutheran, NY >> Is that the one in Buffalo? >>=20 >> Alan (what a LIST!) >=20 > A qualified no. The record says: Lutheran Church of the Holy Trinity, New > York City; from the stoplist, a 3/45 or so from the later years (Great: 8= ' > Principal, 8' Bourdon, 4' Octave, 4' Zauberfl=F6te, 2' Fifteenth, Fournitur= e > IV -- and the Choir Trompette Harmonique playable at 8' and 4', and Chime= s!) >=20 > But I can't find it in the Skinner/Aeolian-Skinner opus list, although it= is > after turkey dinner, the tryptophanes have kicked in, and my research ski= lls > are likely impaired. >=20 Well, in that case I think it's Holy Trinity on the northwest corner of 65th? and Central Park West, now captained by one Richard Erickson. And I can't find MY A/A-S Opus List at all (I think I've given it away), nor my Great Organs of New York CD set, which describes the west-end installation at Holy Trinity. =20   Alan    
(back) Subject: volume control and recordings From: "Ray Kimber" <ray@kimber.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:26:15 -0700   Hello List,   I have been reading with much compassion the posts regarding volume = changes by "engineers". (last year I couldn't spell audio engineer and now I are one)   I am perfectly convinced this is the reason that most (if not all) choral recordings are lacking. A music director will spend weeks refining small details, indeed the director can control the sound of the choir, = on-the-fly. Then at the last moment the "engineer" arrives and places mics in = locations where no-one listens, make that many mics for a more "professional" recording. then this "engineer" sits at the console and makes decisions that change the result in ways that the director can only conceive in a nightmare.   I have virtually every book ever written on recording and microphones, = have made many controlled experiments and have concluded that such recordings should be captured and not "engineered".   My current rules are:   Use only two omnidirectional mics, so far I like Neumann M-150 or DPA = 3259A or Sennheiser MKH 800 (in omni mode).   Go direct from the mic preamp to the recorder, no mixer, no equalizer, no limiter/compression and don't touch the controls during the recording.   I'm also using an experimental baffle that I developed that hangs between the two microphones. you can see pictures at http://www.kimber.com/isomike.htm   The results have been quite gratifying.   Some observations so far, listen in the audience with your eyes closed, = you may notice that when choirs ramp to a crescendo that the sound goes a bit (or a lot) "snarly". I have a couple of theories. One has to do with spacing choir members too close, and the other is singing too loud (at = 100% rather than say 80%).   Many engineers, recording and PA, think that they have to be constantly tweaking the mix during the performance, or they have electronics that = does the same thing, such as compressors. My feeling is that such engineering induces aural motion sickness.   Go for minimalist ( or zero) amplification and minimalist recordings.   Best regards,   Ray Kimber                
(back) Subject: RE: Last Sunday before Advent FOR SURE From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:43:05 -0600   Sounds awfully like plighting troths to me.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of John L. Speller   Tilth is not a word I was familiar with either, but upon looking it up in the Oxford English Dictionary I find that it means the same thing as tillage -- i.e., what you get by working or tilling the ground.          
(back) Subject: Re: volume control and recordings From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 09:49:23 -0600   Ray: I like your attitude about recording. While the instrument that I play at one church is not run thru the system, I find the morning engineer constantly "tweeking" other things on the p.a.   One of the problems I see, is that he is in the back of the room. surrounded by a short wall (about 6 1/2' tall). So it's like he's actually sitting in another room, listening to things. Usually the sound level is too high for my personal taste...but then I don't like the cars that drive by late at night with "boom, boom, ka-boom" eminating from them <G>.   I'd be interested in knowing more about your products and services...but I guess if I go to the web, I'll get that information.     Duh!!!!     Jon...too much pear/raspberry/almond tart yesterday Bertschinger.  
(back) Subject: RE: Karg-Elert From: "Jonathan" <jhumbert@ptd.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:57:39 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0021_01C297A6.E5D1EA60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   List,   Well, the Karg-Elert (Nun danket) "got played" for the postlude on =3D Thursday morning. It went fairly well, until one of the teenagers in =3D the church decided to try his hand at the "worship team" drum set (I =3D suppose as an accompaniment to the organ?!?). Surprise of all =3D surprises, the pastor actually came up and asked the young man to "not =3D do that today." In my particular church situation, I felt extremely =3D honored to hear that on my behalf.   Rolling with the punches, Jonathan Humbert, Organist Word of Life Chapel Bainbridge, PA   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0021_01C297A6.E5D1EA60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style">List,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, the =3D Karg-Elert (Nun=3D20 danket) "got played"&nbsp;for the postlude on Thursday morning. &nbsp;It = =3D went=3D20 fairly well, until one of the teenagers in the church decided to try his = =3D hand at=3D20 the "worship team" drum set (I suppose as an accompaniment to the=3D20 organ?!?).&nbsp; Surprise of all surprises, the pastor actually came up = =3D and=3D20 asked the young man to "not do that today."&nbsp; In my particular =3D church=3D20 situation, I felt extremely honored to hear that on my =3D behalf.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style">Rolling with the =3D punches,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style">Jonathan Humbert, =3D Organist</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style">Word of Life Chapel</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3D"Bookman Old Style">Bainbridge,=3D20 PA</FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0021_01C297A6.E5D1EA60--    
(back) Subject: Re: Last Sunday before Advent FOR SURE From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:30:46 -0400   on 11/29/02 11:43 AM, Glenda at gksjd85@direcway.com wrote:   > Sounds awfully like plighting troths to me. > > Glenda Sutton > gksjd85@direcway.com   Well, ideally you do that first.     Randy Runyon Music Director Zion Lutheran Church Hamilton, Ohio runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: RE: Karg-Elert From: "Andrew Caskie" <caskie@totalise.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:34:39 -0000   Well done! I wasn't so lucky on Sunday - was about halfway through the = Dubois tocccata when 2 nine yr old boys thought it would be enormous fun to play = the piano with their elbows....   This went on for about a minute, at which point I stopped dead in the = piece and yelled at them - was amazed that no-one had spoken to them. Perhaps they = hadn't noticed? :o)   I will try to complete the postlude this week!   Andy Caskie Whitehaven United Reformed Church Cumbria UK  
(back) Subject: Not Quite on topic but still valuable reading From: "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 14:13:52 -0500   Those of us interested in Bach's cantatas will thus be interested in an article by Tanya Kevorkian, "The Reception of the Cantata During Leipzig Church Services, 1700 - 1750" in _Early Music_, Feb. 2002. A scholar in history more than in music and a history department faculty member at Millersville U. in suburban Lancastter PA, Dr. Kervorkian draws on a wide range of primary and secondary sources in discussing, in effect, how = Bach's congregations attended to his music -- or at time failed to attend to it!! -- and how he may not have had it much better than some of us do!   Her article includes diagrams of Thomaskirche und Nikolaikirche, plus a Leipzig street plan of 1725 which is a bit hard to read. There is brief comment about the Neukirche ("New Church"), for which Bach had perhaps = more oversight than personal involvement, but most of the discussion pertains = to the two large churches.   INTERESTING!! And it helps to provide moments of gratitude for the positive aspects of our own positions.   Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: RE: Last Sunday before Advent FOR SURE From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:51:39 -0600   Funny, I don't remember the minister adding, "Plow the tilths" after "Plight the troths". Try saying that in tandem three times fast.   ODed on leftovers,   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com            
(back) Subject: Re: Aeolian-Skinner King of Instruments (was Greetings) From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 12:18:35 -0800     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> > Well, in that case I think it's Holy Trinity on the northwest corner of 65th? and Central Park West, now captained by one Richard Erickson. And I can't find MY A/A-S Opus List at all (I think I've given it away), nor my Great Organs of New York CD set, which describes the west-end installation at Holy Trinity.   No, Sand Lawn himself cleared it up in a post. The opus list calls it "Evangelical Lutheran Church of the Holy Trinity" -- so I didn't find it under "Lutheran" or "Holy", and since it is a rebuild of a 1929 Skinner I couldn't find it when I looked for early 1960s instruments. And in any = case the opus list notes that it was replaced by a 3/65 Robert Turner in 1976.   Incidentally, the young John Weaver plays a fine Ad nos on this volume -- = no real surprise there -- and the 46 rk. A-S is quite effective in it.   Michael Fox    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:54:16 EST     --part1_4b.271f1a46.2b192df8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/29/02 2:11:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com writes:     > There are too many churches looking for > organists to put up with crap like that. >   True.... but sadly, many of them are behaving the same way!   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 check out <A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A>       --part1_4b.271f1a46.2b192df8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/29/02 2:11:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com = writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">There are too many = churches looking for <BR>organists to put up with crap like that. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>True.... but sadly, many of them are behaving the same way! <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;check out &nbsp;&nbsp;<A = HREF=3D"http://www.visionsuccess.com/BC2053">Vision Success </A> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_4b.271f1a46.2b192df8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Karg-Elert From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:30:08 EST     --part1_2b.3220259b.2b193660_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Maybe the boy had drumsticks on his mind!!!! lolololool. Gfc   --part1_2b.3220259b.2b193660_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Maybe the boy had = drumsticks on his mind!!!! <BR>lolololool. <BR>Gfc</FONT></HTML>   --part1_2b.3220259b.2b193660_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Soundproof Your Church! From: "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:33:33 -0800 (PST)   Througout the past four decades, I have seen numerous churches that had engaged an acoustical "expert". I have yet to see one which would not have been better off had they just used a little common sense.   Look at the past -- places like the Mormon Tabernacle and the medieval cathedrals of Europe. These places had to be built right to start with. If the acoustics were dead, they were sunk. Their sound "engineer" couldn't run down to the Radio Shack and get a super- duper PA system to compensate for the damage that could have been avoided had someone used a little common sense.   We would all be better off if we could take all these electronic gadgets, and also the guitars and drums and dump them in the river. We have available all this modern technology, and STILL we seem to be going backwards.   D. Keith Morgan   __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Soundproof Your Church! From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 16:57:31 -0500   At 01:33 PM 11/29/02 -0800, D. Keith Morgan wrote: >Throughout the past four decades, I have seen numerous >churches that had engaged an acoustical "expert". I >have yet to see one which would not have been better >off had they just used a little common sense.   Bob Conway adds, Keith is absolutely right, - not only in churches, how about the Royal Festival Hall in London, or the Roy Thompson Hall in Toronto, to name but = a couple that I have been in. In both cases they had "Acoustic Engineers" involved from the very beginnings, and look what happened, both these = halls have been "done over" acoustically, and are still being looked at, even = yet!   One only has to go to the magnificent cathedrals, opera houses and concert =   halls in Europe, built in the 18th and 19th centuries, and before, to = hear the acoustic difference, maybe we should go by their example, rather than "fixing it up" after the hall is built!   But then we would put a whole profession out of work, - not to mention their Professors who "taught" them!   Happy Holiday!   Bob Conway    
(back) Subject: Re: Karg-Elert From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 23:26:50 EST   In a message dated 11/29/02 12:58:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, jhumbert@ptd.net writes:   << It went fairly well, until one of the teenagers in the church decided = to try his hand at the "worship team" drum set >>   What a good reason for locking up the drums when they aren't being used. Perhaps this should be suggested to the regular drummer, hinting that this =   would keep the drums in better shape.   Richard (who would probably run away in horror if there was any hint of an =   idea that a drum set were going to be an integral part of the liturgical music)