PipeChat Digest #3265 - Saturday, November 30, 2002
 
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Pologaptommy@aol.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Pologaptommy@aol.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Pologaptommy@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 01:22:00 EST     --part1_15.35e78e0.2b19b308_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I just thought I would put my two cents in. I agree and disagree with a lot of what has been said regarding this = subject. I for one, will admit that growing up in the Assembly of God Church, along =   with Southern Baptist, I had to go to whatever church my parents chose for =   their family to go. Naturally as a young organist/pianist, I took = whatever experience I could get, from playing a Hammond spinet in a small Baptist church seating 100, to playing a Concert Grand with the "orchestra/band" = in a church that seated 2,800. During this time, I was subbing for organists = in different local Methodist, and Lutheran churches, so I was grateful to get = a break from the "contemporary" setting. My most current position, as organist of FUMC, in Graham, the entire = program staff is really very serious about the music at FUMC. We have a 32 = channel sound board, capable of delivering 5,000 watts of power. But it doesn't. =   And it never will. I think they use about 5 of those channels, and that = is only for the televised service. In the past, the Music directors have not =   used mics, the pastor has minimal amplification, and any choir solos are miked for television, but not amplified. Of course, having a pipe organ I =   have full control over the organs sound. The piano is not miked, and = people complain about it being to loud at times. Meanwhile, my parents still attend an Assembly of God church, with NOTHING =   but a praise band, all who play completely by chords, and by ear. Even = the pianist just picks away at chords. They also have fancy lighting that changes during the music to "enhance the mood." This is ALL controlled by =   the sound technicians. My church, on the other hand hires Music Directors =   who have at least a masters, our pianist has several degrees in music and piano, and in my case I was hired on the basis that I WOULD get my degree, =   and of course, am currently working on that. But, my parents have visited = my church a number of times, and they absolutely HATE it. I don't know why, = but they would rather have their church, and their praise band, with their = fancy lighting and their under-qualified musicians. There are other people I = know, who came from a praise band background, who really don't like our = services. So I guess what I am trying to say, is that they LIKE the praise = band, and their sound technicians, and everything else. Its how they worship. = Its how they express their praise to God. Its what ministers to their = particular hearts, and its what keeps them going back each Sunday, so that the = minister can speak to their hearts also, and so their Sunday school teachers can = plant a seed inside them that will make them want go out, and share the word of = God with others. If its the MUSIC that brings them to church, then KUDOS to those volunteer musicians and sound technicians. They are at church, the = are learning how to live a righteous life, and they are being fed spiritually = by their pastor. I have been to my parents church services. All the people = in the band, and on the praise team, and in the sound booth have such a = burden inside them for outreach and ministry, its real, and the people really do have a great compassion for harvesting souls for Christ. They have been given tools to use and they use them to the full extent, wasting nothing, like we do on extra ranks of pipes which we rarely use. After reading some of the posts, I am shocked once more about the = attitudes of organists, and other people in positions of ministry. To think that = some people would get up and walk out because they don't get their way is quite =   upsetting. Also someone said earlier that if the sound techs turned down their music have they would have stopped and had a one-on-one = confrontation with the Director of Music. Is THAT what church has come to? Disrupting = a worship service, a WORSHIP service where the WORSHIP is supposed to be focused on God, and throwing a FIT because the sound techs turned you = down! I will not say that I have not confronted the sound techs before, but I waited till after the service. HOW can we, as ministers, be examples as Christians with these kinds of attitudes!? Worship. Giving the glory to God. Being selfless and using your talents for the glorification of God. Letting the Holy Spirit reign in = the worship service. Approaching worship services with an attitude of = absolute humility and humbleness. Letting yourself enjoy the worship service. = Being sensitive to the needs and the emotions of others in the congregation. In =   the whole realm of it all, those things are all that matter. Josh   --part1_15.35e78e0.2b19b308_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I just thought I would put my two cents in.<BR> I agree and disagree with a lot of what has been said regarding this = subject.<BR> I for one, will admit that growing up in the Assembly of God Church, along = with Southern Baptist, I had to go to whatever church my parents chose for = their family to go.&nbsp; Naturally as a young organist/pianist, I took = whatever experience I could get, from playing a Hammond spinet in a small = Baptist church seating 100, to playing a Concert Grand with the = "orchestra/band" in a church that seated 2,800.&nbsp; During this time, I = was subbing for organists in different local Methodist, and Lutheran = churches, so I was grateful to get a break from the "contemporary" = setting.<BR> My most current position, as organist of FUMC, in Graham, the entire = program staff is really very serious about the music at FUMC.&nbsp; We = have a 32 channel sound board, capable of delivering 5,000 watts of = power.&nbsp; But it doesn't.&nbsp; And it never will.&nbsp; I think they = use about 5 of those channels, and that is only for the televised = service.&nbsp; In the past, the Music directors have not used mics, the = pastor has minimal amplification, and any choir solos are miked for = television, but not amplified.&nbsp; Of course, having a pipe organ I have = full control over the organs sound.&nbsp; The piano is not miked, and = people complain about it being to loud at times.<BR> Meanwhile, my parents still attend an Assembly of God church, with NOTHING = but a praise band, all who play completely by chords, and by ear.&nbsp; = Even the pianist just picks away at chords.&nbsp; They also have fancy = lighting that changes during the music to "enhance the mood."&nbsp; This = is ALL controlled by the sound technicians.&nbsp; My church, on the other = hand hires Music Directors who have at least a masters, our pianist has = several degrees in music and piano, and in my case I was hired on the = basis that I WOULD get my degree, and of course, am currently working on = that.&nbsp; But, my parents have visited my church a number of times, and = they absolutely HATE it.&nbsp; I don't know why, but they would rather = have their church, and their praise band, with their fancy lighting and = their under-qualified musicians.&nbsp; There are other people I know, who = came from a praise band background, who really don't like our = services.<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So I guess what I am trying to say, is that they = LIKE the praise band, and their sound technicians, and everything = else.&nbsp; Its how they worship.&nbsp; Its how they express their praise = to God.&nbsp; Its what ministers to their particular hearts, and its what = keeps them going back each Sunday, so that the minister can speak to their = hearts also, and so their Sunday school teachers can plant a seed inside = them that will make them want go out, and share the word of God with = others.&nbsp; If its the MUSIC that brings them to church, then KUDOS to = those volunteer musicians and sound technicians. They are at church, the = are learning how to live a righteous life, and they are being fed = spiritually by their pastor.&nbsp; I have been to my parents church = services.&nbsp; All the people in the band, and on the praise team, and in the sound = booth have such a burden inside them for outreach and ministry, its real, = and the people really do have a great compassion for har After reading some of the posts, I am shocked once more about the = attitudes of organists, and other people in positions of ministry.&nbsp; = To think that some people would get up and walk out because they don't get = their way is quite upsetting.&nbsp; Also someone said earlier that if the = sound techs turned down their music have they would have stopped and had a = one-on-one confrontation with the Director of Music.&nbsp; Is THAT what = church has come to?&nbsp; Disrupting a worship service, a WORSHIP service = where the WORSHIP is supposed to be focused on God, and throwing a FIT = because the sound techs turned you down!&nbsp; I will not say that I have = not confronted the sound techs before, but I waited till after the = service.&nbsp; HOW can we, as ministers, be examples as Christians with = these kinds of attitudes!?<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Worship.&nbsp; Giving the glory to God.&nbsp; = Being selfless and using your talents for the glorification of God.&nbsp; = Letting the Holy Spirit reign in the worship service.&nbsp; Approaching = worship services with an attitude of absolute humility and = humbleness.&nbsp; Letting yourself enjoy the worship service.&nbsp; Being = sensitive to the needs and the emotions of others in the = congregation.&nbsp; In the whole realm of it all, those things are all = that matter.<BR> Josh</FONT></HTML>   --part1_15.35e78e0.2b19b308_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:09:30 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0011_01C29815.845085C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Josh,   I think you may have missed the point. It is never acceptable for a =3D Music Director to publicly humiliate anyone. I probably would have =3D walked (after the fact) under those circumstances.   I wasn't trained to be a humble Christian Music Minister. I was trained = =3D to be a professional Organist. As such, being at the console in church = =3D is simply my job, for which I am under contract and well paid. I am not = =3D a member of the congregation who is present for the purpose of Worship, = =3D I am an employee of the congregation. Don't get me wrong, I do indeed =3D understand your point. One must always present one's self with dignity = =3D and decorum. However, it is my practice to attend Worship Services at =3D my own Parrish on my own time...and off the bench.   Many organists are employed outside their religious path, and look on =3D their jobs as just that: a job. Religion has little to do with it.   Respectfully,   Tim       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 ------=3D_NextPart_000_0011_01C29815.845085C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Josh,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I think you may have missed the =3D point.&nbsp; It=3D20 is&nbsp;never acceptable for a Music Director to publicly humiliate=3D20 anyone.&nbsp; I probably would have walked (after the fact) under = those=3D20 circumstances.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I wasn't trained to be a humble =3D Christian Music=3D20 Minister.&nbsp; I&nbsp;was trained to be a professional Organist.&nbsp; = =3D As such,=3D20 being at the console in church is simply my job, for which I am under =3D contract=3D20 and well paid.&nbsp; I am&nbsp;not a&nbsp;member of the congregation who = =3D is=3D20 present for the purpose of Worship, I am an employee of the =3D congregation.&nbsp;=3D20 Don't get me wrong, I do indeed understand your point.&nbsp; One must =3D always=3D20 present one's self with dignity and decorum.&nbsp; However, it is my =3D practice to=3D20 attend Worship Services at my own Parrish on my own time...and off = the=3D20 bench.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Many organists are employed outside = =3D their religious=3D20 path, and look on their jobs as just that: a job.&nbsp; Religion has =3D little to=3D20 do with it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Respectfully,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tim</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified = =3D Virus=3D20 Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: = =3D 6.0.423 /=3D20 Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: =3D 11/25/2002</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0011_01C29815.845085C0--    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:25:01 EST     --part1_18a.1202119f.2b19cfdd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Tim, thank you for your response....and I understand perfectly what you = said. It now brings up a new question. If you are paid, under contract, and an employee of the congregation, as I =   am, does that mean that your position is not a position of direct = ministry? And as with any ministry isnt certain degree of humbleness required? I = mean, you must also, as an employee be sensitive to the needs of the = congregation, spiritually, and proffessionally. I am afraid, that even if you don't think of your job as a ministry, there = is a probability that most people in a congregation would think it is.   My church is ran like a business, if the choral director publicly = humiliated you, perhaps it would be better to file a complaint within the business office. I had to learn THAT the hard way! :) I too, "had it out with a sound director", after a service, unfortunately, there were people = standing behind me that did not appreciate my actions. After going through that = whole mess, I decided that it is best to "cool off" before confronting anyone = about ANYTHING directly after it happened. But, I understand your point, as with any job, it IS a job, and you must = be a proffessional, but working in a church, is a job that is a little = different from a conventional job. Josh   --part1_18a.1202119f.2b19cfdd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Tim, thank you for your response....and I = understand perfectly what you said.<BR> It now brings up a new question.<BR> If you are paid, under contract, and an employee of the congregation, as I = am, does that mean that your position is not a position of direct = ministry?&nbsp; And as with any ministry isnt certain degree of humbleness = required?&nbsp; I mean, you must also, as an employee be sensitive to the = needs of the congregation, spiritually, and proffessionally.&nbsp; <BR> I am afraid, that even if you don't think of your job as a ministry, there = is a probability that most people in a congregation would think it = is.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> My church is ran like a business, if the choral director publicly = humiliated you, perhaps it would be better to file a complaint within the = business office.&nbsp; I had to learn THAT the hard way!&nbsp; :)&nbsp; I = too, "had it out with a sound director", after a service, unfortunately, = there were people standing behind me that did not appreciate my = actions.&nbsp; After going through that whole mess, I decided that it is = best to "cool off" before confronting anyone about ANYTHING directly after = it happened.<BR> But, I understand your point, as with any job, it IS a job, and you must = be a proffessional, but working in a church, is a job that is a little = different from a conventional job.<BR> Josh</FONT></HTML>   --part1_18a.1202119f.2b19cfdd_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:44:12 EST     --part1_b7.2ab5f37f.2b19d45c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   My main statement from my posting was simply to state, that I don't think contemporary music in churches is a result of their congregations being uneducated, or ignorant, nor any other negative reason. It reaches some people, it makes a lot of people happy to hear it. I had friends in High School, and I have friends now, who have degrees in vocal performance or are vocal performance majors, who have degrees in piano performance or are piano performance majors, and even organists and organ performance majors who purposely seek out church's that offer contemporary =   music. Contemporary music is hear to stay. If it weren't for = contemporary music, I'm afraid that many, many of the teenagers now days, wouldn't be saved. How could their be ANYTHING bad about that? There are SO many churches, mine included unfortunately, who look down on other church's for having contemporary music included in their services. While the same God is being worshipped, just in a different way. Josh   --part1_b7.2ab5f37f.2b19d45c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">My main statement from my posting was simply to = state, that I don't think contemporary music in churches is a result of = their congregations being uneducated, or ignorant, nor any other negative = reason.<BR> It reaches some people, it makes a lot of people happy to hear it.&nbsp; I = had friends in High School, and I have friends now, who have degrees in = vocal performance or are vocal performance majors, who have degrees in = piano performance or are piano performance majors, and even organists and = organ performance majors who purposely seek out church's that offer = contemporary music.&nbsp; Contemporary music is hear to stay.&nbsp; If it = weren't for contemporary music, I'm afraid that many, many of the = teenagers now days, wouldn't be saved.&nbsp; How could their be ANYTHING = bad about that?<BR> There are SO many churches, mine included unfortunately, who look down on = other church's for having contemporary music included in their = services.&nbsp; While the same God is being worshipped, just in a = different way.<BR> Josh<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_b7.2ab5f37f.2b19d45c_boundary--