PipeChat Digest #3266 - Saturday, November 30, 2002
 
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com>
BACH CANTATAS
  by "Don Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com>
Re: Karg-Elert, now drums
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Rudeness, Taste, and "Godliness"
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Rudeness, Taste, and "Godliness"
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "John Jarvis" <jjarvis@attbi.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Re: Who controls the volume?   ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 04:19:16 -0800 (PST)   Dear Josh:   I certainly hope that you play better than you spell.   When I refer to contemporary music, I am referring to these hootenanny services where these characters strum on out-of-tune guitars and inflict this crap on everyone, and to HELL with good taste. These people can't even TUNE these instruments correctly, much less PLAY them. Most of the people with whom I've talked (perhaps 90%) deplore these guitar twanging, drum beating jam sessions where this is the norm and fine music is ignored.   In your e-mail, you said that "If it weren't for contemporary music, I'm afraid that many, many of the teenagers now days, wouldn't be saved. How could their (sic) be ANYTHING bad about that?"   If that's what it takes to be "saved", you can include me out. If heaven is going to be populated with people like that, who wants to go? Not me.   D. Keith Morgan   --- Pologaptommy@aol.com wrote: > My main statement from my posting was simply to > state, that I don't think > contemporary music in churches is a result of their > congregations being > uneducated, or ignorant, nor any other negative > reason. > It reaches some people, it makes a lot of people > happy to hear it. I had > friends in High School, and I have friends now, who > have degrees in vocal > performance or are vocal performance majors, who > have degrees in piano > performance or are piano performance majors, and > even organists and organ > performance majors who purposely seek out church's > that offer contemporary > music. Contemporary music is hear to stay. If it > weren't for contemporary > music, I'm afraid that many, many of the teenagers > now days, wouldn't be > saved. How could their be ANYTHING bad about that? > There are SO many churches, mine included > unfortunately, who look down on > other church's for having contemporary music > included in their services. > While the same God is being worshipped, just in a > different way. > Josh >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: BACH CANTATAS From: "Don Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 08:20:53 -0500       Karl Moyer mentioned inattentive congregations when Bach's cantatas were first performed in church. I am wondering if any list members have more recent experience performing these cantatas in the context of a church service. The Feast of the Purification falls on a Sunday [Feb 2/03], and =   I was thinking of Bach's solo cantata # 82, "Ich Habe Genug". One might call this Bach's version of the Nunc Dimittis, which would have been appreciated by an anglican congregation. Unfortunately, our community's professional baritone, who otherwise would have been interested, recently announced his decision to be a professional tenor!   There is an effective organ transcription of the beautiful aria "Slumber on, O weary spirit" by Claude Means in the Gray Co's St Cecilia series.   Don    
(back) Subject: Re: Karg-Elert, now drums From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 10:43:20 EST   ContraReed@aol.com wrote:   > Richard (who would probably run away in horror if there > was any hint of an > idea that a drum set were going to be an integral part of > the liturgical > music)   Some of the most fun I've had as a church organist was playing hymns for = an AME Zion church. The pastor is a phenomenal gospel pianist, we had a talented kid on drums, and I played continuum on organ, allowing the = pastor to really let loose without losing the congregation. There'd be times = that we'd repeat a hymn, because the music was moving everyone and we didn't = want to stop.   And note I said "for" the church, not "in" - when I am playing for a = church service, I am worshipping God. I'm with Josh on this one.   Victoria Hedberg-Ceruti  
(back) Subject: Rudeness, Taste, and "Godliness" From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:11:20 EST   Dear Josh: I am sure that everybody at The Church of the Praise Band is = righteous, and nobody questions their motives or the sincerety of their praise. It = is often such congregations who fervently insist that they have a greater = grasp of righteousness than all others. In my experience, the most deeply = spiritual adherents to any faith have always been the most mild-mannered, and = sequester their spiritual jouneys internally. The questions raised on pipechat were more about abject rudeness, and = the lack of any ability to judge what was going on, and inappropriate actions = in light of the situation. It wasn't about somebody picking up their toys and =   running away because they "didn't get their way." They were a victim of thoughtlessness and self-involved rudeness at the hands of people who just =   don't "get it," shielded by a cloak of religion, I have absolutely no training or ability regarding the judgement of "Praise Bands." I have never encountered a situation in which I had to = judge one regarding artistry or efficacy. But if a house of worship, praise, and =   glory has gotten to that point, they have sent the message that they stand = by their tastes. Remember that American society continues to be increasingly criticised =   for its cultural downslide, exacerbated by the national championing of "mom-and-pop," "down-home," "accessible," and "non-'snobby'" values (an ironic term) that will obviously invade all areas of our life and culture. =   If somebody does not wish to be educated, out of fear, they will = continue to resist education until their dying breath. Then only the very, very = best of liturgical musicians will have truly satisfying careers and positions, both culturally and financially. The remainder will scramble for the = scraps that we have created from a once-great culture. What are organists and = music directors doing to really change this? Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Rudeness, Taste, and "Godliness" From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 13:57:56 -0500   On 11/30/02 12:11 PM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote:   > Dear Josh: > I am sure that everybody at The Church of the Praise Band is = righteous, > and nobody questions their motives or the sincerety of their praise. It = is > often such congregations who fervently insist that they have a greater = grasp > of righteousness than all others. In my experience, the most deeply = spiritual > adherents to any faith have always been the most mild-mannered, and = sequester > their spiritual jouneys internally.   Seb, it's hard to believe that you are able to write such an extremely insightful piece. You really know your stuff.   > <snip> > I have absolutely no training or ability regarding the = judgement of > "Praise Bands."   > <snip> "non-'snobby'" values (an ironic term)   Now, that's rich!   Josh: I know Seb Gluck. I don't want to embarrass him by telling you publicly how brilliant he is. But let's you just ASSUME that to be the case. He's written you a marvelous mini-essay that I hope you'll re-read several times.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:07:46 EST     --part1_176.12281f77.2b1a6682_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 11/30/2002 6:20:17 AM Central Standard Time, aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com writes:     > I had > > friends in High School, and I have friends now, who > > have degrees in vocal > > performance or are vocal performance majors, who > > have degrees in piano > > performance or are piano performance majors, and > > even organists and organ > > performance majors who purposely seek out church's > > that offer contemporary > >.   probably so they wouldn't have to play 3 or 4 services!   The music committees at most churches are dumb as rocks. They are always made up of women who took piano or voice lessons 30-40 years ago, whose husbands donate lots of money to the church. They were probably smoking = pot and listening to Tom Petty records 30 years ago. The pastor leads them = and says everything is "wonderful". I assure you that a music committee run = by a group of people with music degrees, or musicians that play jazz or "classical" music 3-5 hours a day would certainly not put up with contemporary bullshit. You know, guitars, basses, drums, and voices could =   offer a whole lot-if they were used skillfully and if the contemporary "literature" had more musical merit. Just look at gospel churches, their =   choirs are WONDERFUL, so are the songs they sing and play. The musicians that play are usually higly accomplished and make a living playing jazz or =   soul music on their instrument outside of church. They also know how to = take a crappy song and reharmonize it and give it some soul! So, the problem = is not all contemporary music, it is contemporary music at predominantly = white , wealthy, suburban churches where most parishoners or music committees wouldn't know a groove if it hit them in the face due to white pop = culture. Until there is some social and musical awareness in our churches, we will have to put up with mediocrity in the form of bland 3 chord praise songs. = In fact, I am going to have to tolerate it tomorrow! Please don't take my comments the wrong way-but they come from growing up with parents that are =   professional musicians and seeing first hand many times what I discussed above. Ultimately, our musical problems are cultural and sociological. Gregory   --part1_176.12281f77.2b1a6682_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 11/30/2002 6:20:17 AM Central Standard Time, aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com = writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I had <BR>&gt; friends in High School, and I have friends now, who <BR>&gt; have degrees in vocal <BR>&gt; performance or are vocal performance majors, who <BR>&gt; have degrees in piano <BR>&gt; performance or are piano performance majors, and <BR>&gt; even organists and organ <BR>&gt; performance majors who purposely seek out church's <BR>&gt; that offer contemporary <BR>&gt; music</BLOCKQUOTE>. <BR> <BR>probably so they wouldn't have to play 3 or 4 services! <BR> <BR>The music committees at most churches are dumb as rocks. &nbsp;They = are always made up of women who took piano or voice lessons 30-40 years = ago, whose husbands donate lots of money to the church. &nbsp;They were = probably smoking pot and listening to Tom Petty records 30 years ago. = &nbsp;The pastor leads them and says everything is "wonderful". &nbsp;I = assure you that a music committee run by a group of people with music = degrees, or musicians that play jazz or "classical" music 3-5 hours a day = would certainly not put up with contemporary bullshit. &nbsp;You know, = guitars, basses, drums, and voices could offer a whole lot-if they were = used skillfully and if the contemporary "literature" &nbsp;had more = musical merit. &nbsp;Just look at gospel churches, their choirs are = WONDERFUL, so are the songs they sing and play. &nbsp;The musicians that play are usually higly = accomplished and make a living playing jazz or soul music on their = instrument outside of church. &nbsp;They also know how t <BR>Gregory</FONT></HTML>   --part1_176.12281f77.2b1a6682_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:26:56 EST     --part1_17f.12bc7900.2b1a6b00_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Tim, Well put! It is a job that we do. We must be treated with respect. We = must be well-paid. After all the long hours organists spend in solitude at the =   bench weekly, we are justifiably upset when unqualified people "undermine" =   our authority. If all churches were looking for musicians that play to worship the Lord, and not as a job, I am guessing that most congregations would not ever have the chance to hear a great piece of organ literature, = or even a hymn played properly. Off to practice, Gregory   --part1_17f.12bc7900.2b1a6b00_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Tim, <BR>Well put! &nbsp;It is a job that we do. &nbsp;We must be treated with = respect. &nbsp;We must be well-paid. &nbsp;After all the long hours = organists spend in solitude at the bench weekly, we are justifiably upset = when unqualified people "undermine" our authority. &nbsp;If all churches = were looking for musicians that play to worship the Lord, and not as a = job, I am guessing that most congregations would not ever have the chance = to hear a great piece of organ literature, or even a hymn played properly. <BR>Off to practice, <BR>Gregory</FONT></HTML>   --part1_17f.12bc7900.2b1a6b00_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:31:28 -0600   I would agree with many statements that have been said on this topic. I put in quite a bit of time, and to have an "incompetent" person undermine everything that I've worked so hard on, would be very angering.   BUT---I'm guessing that most of your churches exist to Praise the Lord. Salaries, respect, etc. are important, but they must not overshadow the main purpose---to Praise the Lord. Musicians are PART OF this ministry. Whether they like it or not.   I would much rather have an organist who might not be able to play all of the "fancy stuff", but is a committed Christian, and can still handle singing of hymns/liturgies --- as opposed to an organist who can "do it all" but has no concern for the purpose of worship.   I know most organists around my area. I "know" many different congregations as well, big and small. MOST of them have people that really care about the true mission of the church---telling the message of Christ. I would think that it would be hard to lead a ministry that you don't really believe in. How can you minister to others when you don't care about what you're doing?   There are many committed individuals out there that DO care about the MINISTRY of music. They're the ones that are great to be around---they know not only the musical aspect, but they also understand the spiritual aspect as well. They have a passion for doing the Lord's work.   If that's not what being an organist is about, what is it? I can't see how there are so many Christian musicians out there that couldn't care less. Time to say my own "ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!"   Paul (putting on his flame suit as we speak!)           Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > > .....If all churches were > looking for musicians that play to worship the Lord, and not as a job, > I am guessing that most congregations would not ever have the chance > to hear a great piece of organ literature, or even a hymn played > properly. > Off to practice, > Gregory  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:14:15 +1300   >As such, being at the console in church is simply my job, for which I am under contract and well paid. I am not a member of the congregation who = is present for the purpose of Worship, Many organists are employed outside their religious path, and look on their jobs as just that: a job. = Religion has little to do with it.   I find this attitude extraordinary. I could not possibly be employed by a church whose philosophy I did not agree with. Leading people in worship, whether you are paid or not, is more than just a a job: it is to take part in, and support, what goes on and what it means. Otherwise, you are merely = a professional hypocrite.   Sorry for the strong language, but if being a church musician is "just a job", it's time you got out, quick.   In case you're wondering, I am not a fulltime church musician and never = have been. Now I've retired from being a Vicar, I'm playing for about three services a month and do not get even one cent towards even expenses of music, shoes and petrol. I'd not have it any other way. I believe I do the job very competently, all the same.   If someone offered me a paid organ job in a place I didn't agree with, I'd turn it down flat.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:23:19 +1300   There is no need to be vicious about where you stand. For my part, I don't like a lot of "contemporary" worship sounds either, but instead of making = a fuss about it, I go to a service that is more my style.   For some people, music is not a great talent or gift, yet they still feel they want to offer the little that they do have, to God. Someone once told = a story about two people: one had a sack of money to give, and the other two tiny coins. Who was praised?   We do not need to be contemptuous musical snobs. If someone asks me if I love the "modern" praise bands etc., I can quite truthfully reply, "I'm = not the kind of person to contribute in that area, I just don't have the = skills and outlook needed." That's being polite, not criticising others by = calling their contribution crap. If someone then asks me where my contribution = might be, I can then say something like, "Well, try me out on really old music. Have you ever heard of de Grigny and Pachelbel?"   I'm sure the Almighty puts up with a lot of crap, from snobs as well as incompetents.   Ross   >I certainly hope that you play better than you spell. > >When I refer to contemporary music, I am referring to >these hootenanny services where these characters strum >on out-of-tune guitars and inflict this crap on >everyone, and to HELL with good taste. These people >can't even TUNE these instruments correctly, much less >PLAY them. Most of the people with whom I've talked >(perhaps 90%) deplore these guitar twanging, drum >beating jam sessions where this is the norm and fine >music is ignored. > >In your e-mail, you said that "If it weren't for >contemporary music, I'm afraid that many, many of the >teenagers now days, wouldn't be saved. How could >their (sic) be ANYTHING bad about that?" > >If that's what it takes to be "saved", you can include >me out. If heaven is going to be populated with >people like that, who wants to go? Not me. > >D. Keith Morgan > >--- Pologaptommy@aol.com wrote: >> My main statement from my posting was simply to >> state, that I don't think >> contemporary music in churches is a result of their >> congregations being >> uneducated, or ignorant, nor any other negative >> reason. >> It reaches some people, it makes a lot of people >> happy to hear it. I had >> friends in High School, and I have friends now, who >> have degrees in vocal >> performance or are vocal performance majors, who >> have degrees in piano >> performance or are piano performance majors, and >> even organists and organ >> performance majors who purposely seek out church's >> that offer contemporary >> music. Contemporary music is hear to stay. If it >> weren't for contemporary >> music, I'm afraid that many, many of the teenagers >> now days, wouldn't be >> saved. How could their be ANYTHING bad about that? >> There are SO many churches, mine included >> unfortunately, who look down on >> other church's for having contemporary music >> included in their services. >> While the same God is being worshipped, just in a >> different way. >> Josh >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:19:43 EST     --part1_a6.305bfd73.2b1a856f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Being a learned and accomplished organist is about playing sublime works = of music that inspire others to reflect and live a Christ like life. Being = an organist should not involve dealing with b.s. from an amateur sound man or =   unqualified others. What would happen if the sound man thought the = pastor's sermon was too loud at its climax and decided to turn him down? He would probably find himself in deep trouble. The same should apply for the organist-who gives the musical sermon.   --part1_a6.305bfd73.2b1a856f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Being a learned and = accomplished organist is about playing sublime works of music that inspire = others to reflect and live a Christ like life. &nbsp;Being an organist = should not involve dealing with b.s. from an amateur sound man or = unqualified others. &nbsp;What would happen if the sound man thought the = pastor's sermon was too loud at its climax and decided to turn him down? = &nbsp;He would probably find himself in deep trouble. &nbsp;The same = should apply for the organist-who gives the musical sermon. = &nbsp;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_a6.305bfd73.2b1a856f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:03:29 -0500   On 11/30/02 3:31 PM, "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> wrote:   > I would much rather have an organist who might not be able to play all > of the "fancy stuff", but is a committed Christian, and can still handle > singing of hymns/liturgies --- as opposed to an organist who can "do it > all" but has no concern for the purpose of worship.   I remember reading a little essay in our Sunday School newspaper, in, probably c. 1945, that said almost exactly what you're saying. I agreed, = I think; but, over the next decade (much of it in the music department of a Christian college, with a 44-rank Casavant well handled) I changed my = mind. (Now they have probably the best known Fritts--Pacific Lutheran = University, Tacoma; Paul's father was my organ teacher.) > > <snip> How can you minister to others when you > don't care about what you're doing?   How indeed? I've now come to the position that YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE. Over the past 40 years or so we've had at Saint Luke's five organists who were ALL fine musicians, and were all, in addition, devout Christian persons. Our current organist is not only that, but a very learned = (though quite young) liturgical theologian. He can work in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, German, at least a couple Romance languages--and, of course, English. Working knowledge of Scandinavian tongues as well. Now, when it comes to composing liturgical materials for Lutheran churches, how much more could you ask? Well, OK, yes: He's a very devout Christian as well; not = because of his learning, but because of the Holy Spirit.   I agree with Ross, Gregory, and--well, yes, Paul, too. > > (putting on his flame suit as we speak!) > "Put on the full armor of God."   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:44:40 -0500   On 11/30/02 5:03 PM, "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> wrote:   > I've now come to the position that YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE. > Over the past 40 years or so we've had at Saint Luke's five organists = who > were ALL fine musicians, and were all, in addition, devout Christian > persons. Our current organist is not only that, but a very learned = (though > quite young) liturgical theologian.   Replying to myself: I should have added:   Our circumstance is not unique, or even strange, in this respect (well, maybe in some OTHER respects). Surely the three top Lutheran parish music programs (choral and instrumental) in New York City are those at Saint Peter's, Holy Trinity, and Saint Luke's. Every one of them has an = organist who can "create" a Sunday afternoon Hymn Festival of immensely scholarly (not just musical, but theological) content and devotional richness. To = go to such an event is like taking a semester of Church Music at a seminary (not as an academic pursuit, but as a devotional act). It's rich and uncompromising stuff!   By contrast, imagine if you can the (large) number of non-Christian congregations in New York City whose top-level music ministers are (at = least nominally) CHRISTIANS. Well, there are faiths that have the money to hire = a professional choir (I've heard them, and they are fantastic!) of 30 = voices, and at least one or two first-rate organist(s)--but for whom their profession in music has NOTHING to do with the Faith being proclaimed.   Do you watch Christmas Eve midnight mass from Saint Patrick's? I'm going = to assume that all or most of the musicians who contribute so much to that = mass are (at least nominally) Christian persons. But I'm also going to be = aware that this is BIT of an assumption.   Alan        
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "John Jarvis" <jjarvis@attbi.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 16:31:24 -0800   I normally just lurk in the shadows of the group and learn a lot from the discussion. However, today I feel the need to speak up as I heartily agree with Josh's comments concerning contemporary music and allowing people to worship God in their own way.   I am saddened to think that anyone would sit on an organ bench Sunday after Sunday and only view it as a "Job". We are ministers to the people in the congregation. The prelude that is played sets the tone for the worship that will follow, the tempo, stops drawn and etc directly control the mood of the congregation as they sing (or not). Lives are changed during worship services and we must take our craft and part in the service very seriously even if it appears that others don't.   If playing for a service is merely a job or even a "performance" I would challenge you to reconsider your place on the bench. Let's remember the high calling that we have to be ministers to the people in our congregations and count it an extreme privilege to be able to lead people in worship to our Lord!   O.K., I'll get off the soap box and go back into my shadows! John    
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 19:39:38 EST     --part1_14e.180dba8a.2b1ab44a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   John, I agree with you. You need to get on your soap box more often = instead of lurking. Lee   --part1_14e.180dba8a.2b1ab44a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">John, I agree with you.&nbsp; You need to get on = your soap box more often instead of lurking.&nbsp; Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_14e.180dba8a.2b1ab44a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Who controls the volume? ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!! From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 20:01:12 -0500   On 11/30/02 7:31 PM, "John Jarvis" <jjarvis@attbi.com> wrote:   > I'll get off the soap box and go back into my shadows!   John, I think we should hear from you a bit more often.   Alan Freed Saint Luke's Church, Manhattan