PipeChat Digest #3180 - Wednesday, October 16, 2002
 
Re: silence is golden
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: New Mander Organ
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Diapason Article - Small
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Deslotting Geigens
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: silence is golden From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:26:47 -0400   Dear John et al, I believe that he is a priest at St. Vincent Ferrer in NYC. He has or had a half hour program on EWTN in which he did some pretty good preaching and threw in quite a few Anglican references. He also is quite = knowledgeable in the music and plays to demonstrate his ideas. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: Re: silence is golden     > It is interesting you should mention the Rev. George William Rutler, = since > my wife used to be one of his congregation at Good Shepherd, Rosemont. She > is now an Episcopal Priest, something of which he would doubtless > disapprove. The one occasion I met him, I thought that Archbishop = William > Laud must have had resurrected and come back to life; he was certainly a > striking and interesting character. I believe he is now one of the = clergy > at St. Anne's Roman Catholic Church in New York City. > > John Speller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> > To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 4:45 PM > Subject: RE: silence is golden > > > > > Other "useful aids" include regular, quiet notes played on "chiff" only, > > resembling water dripping, and ambulance noises, > > > and barking dog noises from the synthesizer . > > > > At the Church of the Good Shepherd, Rosemont, a dashing former rector > named > > Fr. Rutler (who later poped) > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: New Mander Organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:52:28 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 9:41 PM Subject: Re: New Mander Organ     > Do you know if it is still in service and unaltered ?   In answer to your questions, yes, and (alas) no.   John.    
(back) Subject: Diapason Article - Small From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:08:43 EDT     --part1_18f.1005a62d.2ade323b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   I am fascinated by an article in the October issue of The Diapason entitled, "Organ Design and the Kraft Music Hall"(pp. 18-21). The = described the efforts of Schoenstein & Co. in building small symphonic organs. I've =   got several questions, but most of them might only be answered by hearing examples of these organs. Since I live about one hour from the = Spartanburg, S.C. organ and about 3 hours from the Greensboro, N.C. organ, this = shouldn't pose a great problem unless I cannot obtain permission to play the organs.   I will quote two short sections and ask my questions:   1. "...The name Salicional may be a bit misleading to those who consider = it a member of the string family. We use that name (and the name Dulciana) to indicate stops of the echo diapason class, which is characterized by pure diapason tone of moderate to low power..."   Yes, I always tho't these were string stops. Are they or are they not?   What is the "echo diapason" class? I tho't stops got stringy when their scales were reduced a great deal..... or is it the slots that make it stringy? IOW, how do you determine - during the making - whether or not a =   small scaled pipe is going to be a string or a small principal?   2. "...The chorus of the Great is completed with a Mixture. Although it = is often very useful, particularly in a small scheme to specify an = independent 12th and 15th instead of a Mixture, the unique tone color provided by a compound stop is essential to the symphonic ensemble."   How so? In this particular organ the Great contains an 8' Open Diapason = and a smaller scaled 4' Principal. Then comes the 2' Mixture III. I guess I don't understand the last phrase of the quote. Unless...... the Mixture = III contains breaks and changes throughout its compass thereby providing a = unique coloring that would not be present with the fixed combination that would = be had by drawing the three separate 12th, 15th, and whatever.   Again, these questions are probably best answered by demonstration instead = of by words. It would be great if Schoenstein had a CD of these small organs =   that demonstrated these issues.   Thanks, Keith   --part1_18f.1005a62d.2ade323b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am fascinated by an article in the = October issue of The Diapason entitled, "Organ Design and the Kraft Music = Hall"(pp. 18-21).&nbsp; The described the efforts of Schoenstein &amp; Co. = in building small symphonic organs.&nbsp; I've got several questions, but = most of them might only be answered by hearing examples of these = organs.&nbsp; Since I live about one hour from the Spartanburg, S.C. organ = and about 3 hours from the Greensboro, N.C. organ, this shouldn't pose a = great problem unless I cannot obtain permission to play the organs.<BR> <BR> I will quote two short sections and ask my questions:<BR> <BR> 1. "...The name Salicional may be a bit misleading to those who consider = it a member of the string family.&nbsp; We use that name (and the name = Dulciana) to indicate stops of the echo diapason class, which is = characterized by pure diapason tone of moderate to low power..."<BR> <BR> Yes, I always tho't these were string stops.&nbsp; Are they or are they = not?&nbsp; <BR> <BR> What is the "echo diapason" class? I tho't stops got stringy when their = scales were reduced a great deal..... or is it the slots that make it = stringy?&nbsp; IOW, how do you determine - during the making - whether or = not a small scaled pipe is going to be a string or a small principal?<BR> <BR> 2.&nbsp; "...The chorus of the Great is completed with a Mixture.&nbsp; = Although it is often very useful, particularly in a small scheme to = specify an independent 12th and 15th instead of a Mixture, the unique tone color provided by a compound stop is essential to the symphonic = ensemble."<BR> <BR> How so?&nbsp; In this particular organ the Great contains an 8' Open = Diapason and a smaller scaled 4' Principal.&nbsp; Then comes the 2' = Mixture III.&nbsp; I guess I don't understand the last phrase of the = quote.&nbsp; Unless...... the Mixture III contains breaks and changes = throughout its compass thereby providing a unique coloring that would not = be present with the fixed combination that would be had by drawing the = three separate 12th, 15th, and whatever.<BR> <BR> Again, these questions are probably best answered by demonstration instead = of by words.&nbsp; It would be great if Schoenstein had a CD of these = small organs that demonstrated these issues.<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_18f.1005a62d.2ade323b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Deslotting Geigens From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:27:54 EDT     --part1_19e.a504e84.2ade36ba_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   This question may be premature since I do not yet have my organ set up and =   playing. Nevertheless, I'll post it.   My organ has an 8' Geigen Diapason as its unison diapason for the Great. There is a 4' Octave as well. I did not get an adequate enough "listen" = to these to really determine how they sounded. I was told by someone experienced in these matters that they were not really scaled well = relative to each other. The octave played an octave lower actually sounded more = like it should be the 8' Open.   A recommendation was made to deslot the geigen. I've heard mixed reviews = on this. I guess my comfusion stems from my lack of understanding of what = part the "slot" plays structurally. The speaking length of an open pipe determines the pitch. Tuning collars are often used to make fine = adjustments in the speaking length in order to tune the pipes. I understand that a = cap doubles the speaking length and lowers the pitch an octave. I assume that = a stopped pipe that is to have a stopper instead of a cap must be made a = little longer than a capped pipe in order to accomodate the thickness of the stopper.   I'm not certain where the slots fit in. These pipes are tuned either by sliding a tuning collar that fits proximal to the slots and covers up more = or less of the slot(s) as needed to effect tuning or by twisting up or down = the tongue of pipe metal from the pipe (that makes the slot) much like opening = a sardine can.   Is some portion of the slot included in the speaking length of the pipe? = I would think that it would need to be in order to have such an effect on = the timbre of the pipe.   My reason for going thru the above thinking process is that I had tho't = about cutting the pipe off below the slots and using a tuning collar to return = the pipe to its speaking length. I was told that cutting off the slots would remove much of the stringiness of the geigen.   What I didn't understand was how this would affect the "scale" of the = pipe. I was told that some shifting of pipes might be necessary to get the = scaling correct. If the slotted pipe is of a certain scale > you cut off the = slotted portion just proximal to what would be the appropriate speaking length for =   that same pitch > place a tuning collar to fine tune the pitch > how have = you changed the scale?   IOW, can you make a geigen into a plain 8' open diapason?   Thanks, Keith   --part1_19e.a504e84.2ade36ba_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> This question may be premature since I do not yet have my organ set up and = playing.&nbsp; Nevertheless, I'll post it.<BR> <BR> My organ has an 8' Geigen Diapason as its unison diapason for the = Great.&nbsp; There is a 4' Octave as well.&nbsp; I did not get an adequate = enough "listen" to these to really determine how they sounded.&nbsp; I was = told by someone experienced in these matters that they were not really = scaled well relative to each other.&nbsp; The octave played an octave = lower actually sounded more like it should be the 8' Open.<BR> <BR> A recommendation was made to deslot the geigen.&nbsp; I've heard mixed = reviews on this.&nbsp; I guess my comfusion stems from my lack of = understanding of what part the "slot" plays structurally.&nbsp; The = speaking length of an open pipe determines the pitch.&nbsp; Tuning collars = are often used to make fine adjustments in the speaking length in order to = tune the pipes.&nbsp; I understand that a cap doubles the speaking length = and lowers the pitch an octave.&nbsp; I assume that a stopped pipe that is = to have a stopper instead of a cap must be made a little longer than a = capped pipe in order to accomodate the thickness of the stopper.<BR> <BR> I'm not certain where the slots fit in.&nbsp; These pipes are tuned either = by sliding a tuning collar that fits proximal to the slots and covers up more or less of = the slot(s) as needed to effect tuning or by twisting up or down the = tongue of pipe metal from the pipe (that makes the slot) much like opening = a sardine can.<BR> <BR> Is some portion of the slot included in the speaking length of the = pipe?&nbsp; I would think that it would need to be in order to have such = an effect on the timbre of the pipe.<BR> <BR> My reason for going thru the above thinking process is that I had tho't = about cutting the pipe off below the slots and using a tuning collar to = return the pipe to its speaking length.&nbsp; I was told that cutting off = the slots would remove much of the stringiness of the geigen.<BR> <BR> What I didn't understand was how this would affect the "scale" of the = pipe.&nbsp; I was told that some shifting of pipes might be necessary to = get the scaling correct.&nbsp; If the slotted pipe is of a certain scale = &gt; you cut off the slotted portion just proximal to what would be the = appropriate speaking length for that same pitch &gt; place a tuning collar = to fine tune the pitch &gt; how have you changed the scale?<BR> <BR> IOW, can you make a geigen into a plain 8' open diapason?<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_19e.a504e84.2ade36ba_boundary--