PipeChat Digest #3198 - Monday, October 28, 2002
 
harfo32@hotmail.com
  by "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com>
Re: 5 manual organ
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
re: 5 manual organs
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: 5 manual organs - where less is more
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
John Lowe
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
'Good' organ music (was 5 manual ogan)
  by "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk>
Re: 5 manual organ
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: harfo32@hotmail.com From: "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 06:56:05 -0500   Hi, John!   > 1)The organ in my house is a two manual Viscount.   Do you have any trouble finding a technician to service it when it = requires service?   > 3) (and a bit off topric) With regard to living in Greece, Ralph Downes said > more or less the same thing to me 15 years ago. "Well, you won't find = many > organs there!" I wanted a break and didn't plan on staying for more than = 6 > months or so, but if you have seen the film "Shirley Valentine" you = might > understand the attractions! A good climate - we had lunch in the garden > today in the high 70's   If it's in the high 70s during the last week of October, what's it like in July and August? I can only imagine. I do hope you have air = conditioning. I wilt whenever the heat rises above about 75=B0.   > and I have been sunbathing on the beach this week, > the relaxed approach to life,the high quality of services, the general > feeling of safety. (A Greek American friend of mine with two young children > and parents in New York was asked by her mother if she planned to return to > the USA when there were a few problems in Kosovo and Serbia. "No! she said! > My children are far safer here. They can play in the streets from dawn = to > dusk and are unlikely to be shot at by a madman!) Where in England - or the > USA for that matter - can you get a decent 120 sq m. 8 room house for = $200 a > month? A first rate meal out for $15 a head including good wine? (see my > articles - Hotels and Restaurants in Pieria, Aithrio superb food and = wine! > *****) The world's first theatre organ may have been constructed just = down > the road from my house in Dion (The Hydraulus). This possibly predates = the > instrument in Alexandria, for it was from Dion that Alexander the Great set > out on his voyage of conquest, taking with him the cultural achievements of > Ancient Greece- music, theatre, literature and science. The Gods of Olympus > watch over us here - arguably the forerunners of christianity, for their > hierarchical establishment is not dissimilar to that of the Christian Church > which succeeded them. 12 Gods - ruled over by Zeus - 12 Apostles under = the > Guidance of Christ, son of Jehovah. Temples built to the God of the sun > (Ilios) on mountain tops changed allegiance to Elijah (Profitis Ilias), and > many pre Christian ceremonies were modified to take into account the = "New" > religion. "Where'ere you tread is Sacred, Hallowed Ground" said that = great > Philhellene Lord Byron in the Pilgrimage of Childe Harold. You cannot = walk > more than two yards without being in contact with "History". St Paul visited > the area, Alexander the Great was born nearby and trained arguably the most > successful army ever here, so this part of the world is redolent with > History. And the food and company are good. Apart from my own organ, = which > is excellent for practising on, I frequently play at the Evangelical Church, > and annual visits to England take on an added dimension on the grounds = of > "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Sorry if I have wandered off = topic a > bit, but this is a very rich and beautiful part of the world with much = to > offer.   Your accounting is fascinating and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. = Thanks for sharing.   My take on this issue(s) involved is slightly different, though. If I = read you correctly, you are much taken by what you call "the relaxed approach = to life." I'm afraid that that would pale into utter boredom, for me, after just a few weeks. Several years back, my wife and I were able to spend a full week on the Hawai'ian Island of Kaui (one of the smaller, more out-of-the-way islands) compliments of a friend who owns some property there. The first day was paradise. The second day was only slightly less so. By then, we'd driven all around the island and seen it all. By the = end of the week, I was climbing the walls! There was nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, of any musical (or other cultural, for that matter) interest on = the island, not even a decent FM radio station. I happened to stumble on a miniscule Episcopal (Anglican) church which had a 30+ year old electronic organ of the theater variety, for heaven's sake!   Now, there's absolutely no doubt that Greece would be a lot more multi-leveled than that, but I seriously question if I could continue to find it as endlessly challenging, after 15 years, as I do the Eastern Seaboard of the USA, with its 100 million souls and many large cities. = But, that's just me. I'm delighted for you that you've found your niche. I'm not sure how well I'd survive a steady diet of England's climate, but if = it were financially possible, I'd sure like to give it a try! <g>   Since you already know Ernest Hart well, you won't be requiring any = further service from me as you go forward with your organ-building project. I = wish you well in bringing it to fruition, regardless of which avenue you ultimately decide to pursue.   All good wishes,   Dave    
(back) Subject: Re: 5 manual organ From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 07:02:23 EST     --part1_e5.1ffe8fd5.2aed2fcf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 10/26/2002 1:25:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu writes:   > Perhaps I'm missing something, but I've tended to agree with what I > heard as a college student, that what you can't do on a four-manual = organ > is > not worth trying. The fifth manual on the five-manual consoles I've = played > was more a nuisance than an asset. >   My organ teacher proclaimed "most good organ music can be played on a 2 manual, and ALL good organ music can be played on a 3 manual." While I = would agree, what about accompaniments, and trashy music? I can get by on 2 = manuals of our 5, but I find I use all of them most of the time. The harp is in = the solo, and the chimes are in the Echo--those two stops alone warrant the = use of those manuals! The Positiv and Choir live on man I, Great on II, Swell = on III, Solo (w/ Fr Hn, Eng Hn, Tuba, etc.) on IV, Antiphonal (Pr chorus and = En Chamade) and Echo (Flt and Stg Celeste, Vox) on V. I'm all in favor of completing what ever size organ you can have FIRST, = but once that is done, by all means, have some fun--"good" organ music isn't = the only organ music!     Steven Skinner Minister of Music First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA   --part1_e5.1ffe8fd5.2aed2fcf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 10/26/2002 1:25:19 PM Eastern = Standard Time, kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Perhaps I'm = missing something, but I've tended to agree with what I<BR> heard as a college student, that what you can't do on a four-manual organ = is<BR> not worth trying.&nbsp; The fifth manual on the five-manual consoles I've = played<BR> was more a nuisance than an asset.<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> My organ teacher proclaimed "most good organ music can be played on a 2 = manual, and ALL good organ music can be played on a 3 manual."&nbsp; While = I would agree, what about accompaniments, and trashy music? I can get by = on 2 manuals of our 5, but I find I use all of them most of the = time.&nbsp; The harp is in the solo, and the chimes are in the Echo--those = two stops alone warrant the use of those manuals! The Positiv and Choir = live on man I, Great on II, Swell on III, Solo (w/ Fr Hn, Eng Hn, Tuba, = etc.) on IV, Antiphonal (Pr chorus and En Chamade) and Echo (Flt and Stg = Celeste, Vox) on V.<BR> I'm all in favor of completing what ever size organ you can have FIRST, = but once that is done, by all means, have some fun--"good" organ music = isn't the only organ music!<BR> <BR> <BR> Steven Skinner<BR> Minister of Music<BR> First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant<BR> Erie, PA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e5.1ffe8fd5.2aed2fcf_boundary--  
(back) Subject: re: 5 manual organs From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 07:06:16 EST     --part1_2d.25a73bd3.2aed30b8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear List- I think that there are legitimate times for 5 manual consoles and then = there are times that a 5 manual console is just for show. When I was the organist at Calvary Church, Charlotte, NC, I used the 4th = and 5th manuals frequently, as the 4th manual was the home to the Solo and Positive divisions, and the 5th manual was the home of the Bombarde = division. For church, I usually had the organ set up that on my general pistons, I = had a Chamade (or two!) set up on the 5th manual for soloing out melodies, or playing a descant, and often had the two ancillary divisions (floating divisions) set up on manual 4 so I could have antiphonal principal choruses for special = effects. For other music, I used the solo division quite frequently, and never = coupled it down to another manual because I didn't have any problem reaching that manual. As a matter of fact, for me, the 5th manual was easy to play. I don't know if it's because of my height (6'2") or because the organ is comfortable to play, or a combination of the two. That organ, like the Crysal Cathedral organ, Riverside Church, 1st Congo. L.A., and a handful = of other truly large organs benefit from having some of the extra divisions = on a home manual, plus, when there are 5 floating divisions, it's nice to not = run out of manuals when they are assigned somewhere. I used to play trumpet tunes using the chamade on the right side of the church with the accompaniment from the ancillary on the left, and for the echo passages, = do it vice versa, with the full organ in the middle sections. In cases like that, it's necessary because 4 manuals are tied up with trumpets and accompaniments, and I'd couple everything to the choir for the full organ sections.   I have played organs that had complete 3 manual organs in the front of the =   church and small 2 manual antiphonal organs. The five manual console = would be set up man. I Choir, man II Gt, man III Swell, man IV Antiphonal Gt., = man V. antiphonal Swell. I wasn't convinced that it was really necessary to = have each manual division with it's own manual. I think 4 manuals would have sufficed, because the Antiphonal Great was limited, I always felt that it should have been played off of the Great manual and let the Antiphonal = Swell be man. IV. Controls could be provided to couple Antiphonal Gt. to other manuals and have a Antiphonal Gt. Unison Off on man. II.   That's just my thoughts....   Monty Bennett PS. When the Calvary Moller was being designed, there were talks to even make it a 6 manual organ, but it was decided that Dan Miller would = probably be the only organist who could reach it because he's tall.   --part1_2d.25a73bd3.2aed30b8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">Dear List-<BR> I think that there are legitimate times for 5 manual consoles and then = there are times that a 5 manual console is just for show.<BR> When I was the organist at Calvary Church, Charlotte, NC, I used the 4th = and 5th manuals frequently, as the 4th manual was the home to the Solo and = Positive divisions, and the 5th manual was the home of the Bombarde = division.&nbsp; For church, I usually had the organ set up that on my = general pistons, I had a Chamade (or two!) set up on the 5th manual for = soloing out melodies, or playing a descant, and often had the two = ancillary divisions (floating divisions) set up on<BR> manual 4 so I could have antiphonal principal choruses for special = effects.<BR> For other music, I used the solo division quite frequently, and never = coupled it down to another manual because I didn't have any problem = reaching that manual.&nbsp; As a matter of fact, for me, the 5th manual = was easy to play. I don't know if it's because of my height (6'2") or = because the organ is comfortable to play, or a combination of the two.&nbsp; That organ, like the Crysal Cathedral organ, = Riverside Church, 1st Congo. L.A., and a handful of other truly large = organs benefit from having some of the extra divisions on a home manual, = plus, when there are 5 floating divisions, it's nice to not run out of = manuals when they are assigned somewhere.&nbsp; I used to play trumpet = tunes using the chamade on the right side of the church with the = accompaniment from the ancillary on the left, and for the echo passages, = do it vice versa, with the full organ in the middle sections.&nbsp; In = cases like that, it's necessary because 4 manuals are tied up with = trumpets and accompaniments, and I'd <BR> I have played organs that had complete 3 manual organs in the front of the = church and small 2 manual antiphonal organs.&nbsp; The five manual console = would be set up man. I Choir, man II Gt, man III Swell, man IV Antiphonal = Gt., man V. antiphonal Swell.&nbsp; I wasn't convinced that it was really = necessary to have each manual division with it's own manual.&nbsp; I think = 4 manuals would have sufficed, because the Antiphonal Great was limited, I = always felt that it should have been played off of the Great manual and = let the Antiphonal Swell be man. IV.&nbsp; Controls could be provided to = couple Antiphonal Gt. to other manuals and have a Antiphonal Gt. Unison = Off on man. II.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> That's just my thoughts....<BR> <BR> Monty Bennett<BR> PS.&nbsp; When the Calvary Moller was being designed, there were talks to = even make it a 6 manual organ, but it was decided that Dan Miller would = probably be the only organist who could reach it because he's = tall.</FONT></HTML>   --part1_2d.25a73bd3.2aed30b8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: 5 manual organs - where less is more From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:12:14 -0000   This is an attitude with which I concur (speaking as another fifth-manual-deprived player)   Harry (musicman)   -----Original Message----- From: Karl Moyer <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 26 October 2002 18:19 Subject: Re: 5 manual organ     > Perhaps I'm missing something, but I've tended to agree with what I >heard as a college student, that what you can't do on a four-manual organ is >not worth trying. The fifth manual on the five-manual consoles I've = played >was more a nuisance than an asset. > > Karl E. Moyer > Lancaster PA > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: John Lowe From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 08:33:17 -0600   A little snippet of information from England which might otherwise escape notice may be of some interest to Americans. The latest issue of the "BIOS Reporter" 26:4:17 notes that Thomas Green, organist in Hertford, England, recorded a payment to "Mr. Lowe organ builder" for putting a new Stopped Diapason into his house organ in 1787. This may be John Lowe, who emigrated to the United States in 1795 and was subsequently an organbuilder in Philadelphia. John Lowe, it may be recalled, had one of his organs -- built for St. Paul's Chapel, New York -- captured by the British in the War of 1812, and though the organ was subsequently recovered, the stress of it all is thought to have contributed to Mr. Lowe's early demise.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: 'Good' organ music (was 5 manual ogan) From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:30:04 -0000     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 12:02 PM   have some fun--"good" organ music isn't the > only organ music!   I could'nt agree more. Lefebure-Wely's organ music may not be 'good', but it's great fun.   His March in F major, which I have just come across, is lots of fun - an accelerando over the last 12 bars or so just puts the finishing touch on = it.   Yippee !!   Cheers,   Bruce Miles    
(back) Subject: Re: 5 manual organ From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:35:24 EST     --part1_140.15a751d.2aee0a7c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Steven, how fortunate you are to have that organ at your disposal. I = agree, you use what you have to the best of it's, and yours, ability. Our = services call for all types of music, even some not considered "good" organ music. =   But I play whatever it is in the service as worshipful as possible. So = many of the new churches are not even considering an organ, let alone an electronic. Our service this evening was on "Church Planting." One of = the comments was that the "Praise and Worship" band, with piano, minus organ, = was "reaching" people. This denomination is "planting" new smaller churches = to reach the younger people, up to about 40, and feeling that more churches = with smaller memberships is better than the "mega" churches of the 80's. I suppose I should be thankful they still use the organ in this church, even = if it is an Allen, and not a Pipe Organ. Our pastor is only 30, so who knows =   what the future holds in the way of music when the present music director retires. Lee   --part1_140.15a751d.2aee0a7c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Steven, how fortunate = you are to have that organ at your disposal. &nbsp;I agree, you use what = you have to the best of it's, and yours, ability. &nbsp;Our services call = for all types of music, even some not considered "good" organ music. = &nbsp;But I play whatever it is in the service as worshipful as possible. = &nbsp;So many of the new churches are not even considering an organ, let = alone an electronic. &nbsp;Our service this evening was on "Church = Planting." &nbsp;One of the comments was that the "Praise and Worship" = band, with piano, minus organ, was "reaching" people. &nbsp;This = denomination is "planting" new smaller churches to reach the younger = people, up to about 40, and feeling that more churches with smaller = memberships is better than the "mega" churches of the 80's. &nbsp;I = suppose I should be thankful they still use the organ in this church, even = if it is an Allen, and not a Pipe Organ. &nbsp;Our pastor is only 30, so = who knows wh   --part1_140.15a751d.2aee0a7c_boundary--