PipeChat Digest #3110 - Thursday, September 5, 2002
 
Re: Franck Chorale in A Minor part 2
  by <AFberlin3@aol.com>
Re: Redundant organs in UK
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: Redundant organs in UK
  by <OrganMD@aol.com>
RE: Franck Choral in A Minor
  by "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net>
Organist position available
  by "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca>
Re: Redundant organs in UK
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Franck Chorale in A Minor part 2 From: <AFberlin3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 17:30:14 EDT     --part1_158.138b9ef5.2aa7d566_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable     In a message dated 9/4/2002 3:56:45 PM W. Europe Daylight Time,=3D20 jonathan@jonathanbhall.com writes:     > Still, it is nice to observe that for the devout Catholic of the late > 19th century, everything happens in threes! The three-fold-ness > (Dreifaltigkeit) of the Chorales could be significant on that level. I > just don't find a case for this imagery in the music. >=3D20 > As far as "rushing wind" in the 16th notes, whatever mental images help > you bring out the music are inherently valid! There is no problem here > at all--just no way I can find to make an objective case for the > imagery. =3D20 >=3D20 > (Lord, you should hear the words I set to the 'Three Dances' to get the > rhythms right!!) >=3D20 > Any other thoughts on this?? >=3D20   I have a thought on this, JB-- It doesn't strike me as overtly Trinitarian, but then again, he wrote = three=3D20 chorales, Trois Pi=3DE9ces, and then six other major works for organ. = That co=3D mes=3D20 to a total of 12. Each set totaling a multiple of three. Who knows? It = migh=3D t=3D20 have been his own private way of writing Deo gracias. I will say = this,=3D20 though: the 3 chorales make a marvelous, profound half of a program = when=3D20 played together as a set. And considering the endings of the three = (E=3D20 major=3D3Dloud, B minor=3D3Dsoft, A minor=3D3Dloud), there is a quasi = grand sonata=3D or=3D20 3-movement symphony feeling when all are played together. The = passacaglia=3D20 form of the B minor fits like the slow movement of the Beethoven 7th=3D20 Symphony.   For anyone else who might be interested, I want to share a personal = insight=3D20 that I had into Franck's music: Chopin stayed in Franck's apartment for = a=3D20 while-I read this in one of Chopin's letters. When I read this about 8 = year=3D s=3D20 ago, I couldn't help wonder what influence one composer had over the = other.=3D20=3D =3D20 The outer sections of the Prelude, Fugue and Variation remind me of = Chopin's=3D =3D20 style in some of his nocturnes. The same with the cantilena style of = the=3D20 Fantasy in C. The opening C# minor section of Franck's Symphonic = Variations=3D =3D20 for Piano and Orchestra is very heavily influenced by Chopin. =3D20 I always sense a sadness in Franck's music, even in the glorious moments = a=3D20 melancholy cuts through. Maybe it was because Franck was in an = unhappy=3D20 marriage. There is a touching sentimentality to Franck's music, and I try = to=3D =3D20 bring that across.=3D20   Franck's own style of playing was typical of his day. He played with = liberal=3D =3D20 rubati, perhaps in the way Chopin played-in the cantilene style of = writing,=3D20 the right hand was very free while the left hand was strict. Keep in = mind=3D20 that he also played the Six Pi=3DE9ces privately for Franz Liszt in the = organ=3D20 loft at Saint-Clotilde. Who knows what Liszt might have said that could = als=3D o=3D20 have influenced Franck's own performance style? Even as established = a=3D20 composer and performer as Franck was, surely he may have taken advantage = of=3D20 the moment and asked the world's greatest keyboardist for some technical = and=3D =3D20 interpretive advice. At any rate, I'm sure Franck would have been = completel=3D y=3D20 open to any musical ideas that Liszt might have freely offered.   All of this influences my own performances of Franck's music, whether I = am=3D20 playing the organ or piano works (the latter are also really gorgeous) = or=3D20 conducting the D minor Symphony. In fact, I'm much more influenced by = these=3D =3D20 factors than I am by imitating any organ that the composer may or may = have=3D20 not known (I'm not always in agreement with this school of thought = when=3D20 performing music from the mid-19th century on). Keep in mind also = that=3D20 Franck also much preferred the larger 4 manual CC organ at the Trocadero = wit=3D h=3D20 its TWO expressive divisions-which he used to great effect.   And Jon, something extra I know you will appreciate in light of the = above:=3D20 Franck's and Chopin's initials (CF-FC)!   All best, Alexander Frey     --part1_158.138b9ef5.2aa7d566_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> In a message dated 9/4/2002 3:56:45 PM W. Europe Daylight Time, = jonathan@jon=3D athanbhall.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Still, it is nice to observe = th=3D at for the devout Catholic of the late<BR> 19th century, everything happens in threes!&nbsp; The three-fold-ness<BR> (Dreifaltigkeit) of the Chorales could be significant on that level.&nbsp; = I=3D <BR> just don't find a case for this imagery in the music.<BR> <BR> As far as "rushing wind" in the 16th notes, whatever mental images = help<BR> you bring out the music are inherently valid!&nbsp; There is no problem = here=3D <BR> at all--just no way I can find to make an objective case for the<BR> imagery.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> (Lord, you should hear the words I set to the 'Three Dances' to get = the<BR> rhythms right!!)<BR> <BR> Any other thoughts on this??<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> I have a thought on this, JB--<BR> It doesn't strike me as overtly Trinitarian, but then again, he wrote = three=3D20=3D chorales, Trois Pi=3DE9ces, and then six other major works for = organ.&nbsp; Th=3D at comes to a total of 12. Each set totaling a multiple of three.&nbsp; = Who=3D20=3D knows? It might have been his own private way of writing Deo = gracias.&nbsp;=3D20=3D I will say this, though: the 3 chorales make a marvelous, profound half of = a=3D program when played together as a set.&nbsp; And considering the endings = of=3D the three (E major=3D3Dloud, B minor=3D3Dsoft, A minor=3D3Dloud), there = is a quas=3D i grand sonata or 3-movement symphony feeling when all are played = together.&=3D nbsp; The passacaglia form of the B minor fits like the slow movement of = the=3D Beethoven 7th Symphony.<BR> <BR> For anyone else who might be interested, I want to share a personal = insight=3D20=3D that I had into Franck's music:&nbsp; Chopin stayed in Franck's apartment = fo=3D r a while-I read this in one of Chopin's letters.&nbsp; When I read this = abo=3D ut 8 years ago, I couldn't help wonder what influence one composer had = over=3D20=3D the other.&nbsp; The outer sections of the Prelude, Fugue and Variation = remi=3D nd me of Chopin's style in some of his nocturnes. The same with the = cantilen=3D a style of the Fantasy in C.&nbsp; The opening C# minor section of = Franck's=3D20=3D Symphonic Variations for Piano and Orchestra is very heavily influenced by = C=3D hopin.&nbsp; <BR> I always sense a sadness in Franck's music, even in the glorious moments a = m=3D elancholy cuts through.&nbsp; Maybe it was because Franck was in an = unhappy=3D20=3D marriage. There is a touching sentimentality to Franck's music, and I try = to=3D bring that across. <BR> <BR> Franck's own style of playing was typical of his day. He played with = liberal=3D <I>rubati, </I>perhaps in the way Chopin played-in the cantilene style of = w=3D riting, the right hand was very free while the left hand was strict.&nbsp; = K=3D eep in mind that he also played the Six Pi=3DE9ces privately for Franz = Liszt i=3D n the organ loft at Saint-Clotilde.&nbsp; Who knows what Liszt might have = sa=3D id that could also have influenced Franck's own performance style?&nbsp; = Eve=3D n as established a composer and performer as Franck was, surely he may = have=3D20=3D taken advantage of the moment and asked the world's greatest keyboardist = for=3D some technical and interpretive advice.&nbsp; At any rate, I'm sure = Franck=3D20=3D would have been completely open to any musical ideas that Liszt might have = f=3D reely offered.<BR> <BR> All of this influences my own performances of Franck's music, whether I am = p=3D laying the organ or piano works (the latter are also really gorgeous) or = con=3D ducting the D minor Symphony.&nbsp; In fact, I'm much more influenced by = the=3D se factors than I am by imitating any organ that the composer may or may hav=3D e not known (I'm not always in agreement with this school of thought when = pe=3D rforming music from the mid-19th century on).&nbsp; Keep in mind also that = F=3D ranck also much preferred the larger 4 manual CC organ at the Trocadero = with=3D its TWO expressive divisions-which he used to great effect.<BR> <BR> And Jon, something extra I know you will appreciate in light of the above: = F=3D ranck's and Chopin's initials (CF-FC)!<BR> <BR> All best,<BR> Alexander Frey<BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D3=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"> </FONT></HTML> --part1_158.138b9ef5.2aa7d566_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Redundant organs in UK From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 16:43:05 -0500   We have restored 2 English organs. One for a church in Houston and one = for a church in Dallas. We have had no problems with wood splitting etc. = Perhaps it is because it is usually humid here, and we do not have a long heating = season. It might be more of a problem in colder climes. BTW we have another small English organ in storage, if anyone is = interested. Roy Redman   "Emmons, Paul" wrote:   > If you are thinking of re-installing British organs in American = churches-- > unfortunately, differing climatic conditions would militate against the > longevity of any instruments so transposed. European builders (the best > ones, anyway), must use different woods for organs that they build for = this > side of the Atlantic-- right, Malcolm? Because of these different > conditions, certain builders such as Marcussen have refused to attempt = this > at all. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Redundant organs in UK From: <OrganMD@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:02:45 EDT     --part1_e4.2cd15a2f.2aa7dd05_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi all........   Here in Salt Lake City, 2 old organs from English churches were attempted, =   both dried up and fell apart. Average humidity here is 20% or less.   Bill Hesterman   --part1_e4.2cd15a2f.2aa7dd05_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3>Hi all........<BR> <BR> Here in Salt Lake City, 2 old organs from English churches were attempted, = both dried up and fell apart.&nbsp; Average humidity here is 20% or = less.<BR> <BR> Bill Hesterman</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e4.2cd15a2f.2aa7dd05_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: Franck Choral in A Minor From: "Stephen Williams" <stepwill@enter.net> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 19:34:04 -0400   Paul Emmons wrote: >Franck and his students were not Bach heads at all. They neither knew = nor >cared much about his organ music. Organ instruction in the Paris >Conservatoire was an aspect of harmony and composition, with the emphasis >heavily upon improvisation. One of the students reminisced (please don't >ask me for the source, it was something I read years ago) about how, in >those days, a couple volumes of Bach's "chorales" lay on a shelf where = the >class met, gathering dust. No one ever opened them.   Not to be argumentative, but to make an observation, I quote from Jon Gillock's program notes from his performance of the complete organ works = of Frank entitled "Kindred Spiritualists" played at The Riverside Church in three performances during March of this year: "Franck was a great admirer of Bach,'enthusiastic as any youth' over the absolute beauty of his compositions. Not only did he use Bach as an archetype of his compositional classes, but he was one of the few organ teachers of the time who taught his students to interpret the works of = Bach. For the inaugural recital of the organ at Sainte-Clotilde, he played = Bach's Prelude and Fugue in E Minor (The Cathedral)."   Interesting, isn't it? I, too, would perhaps not use the phrase "Baroque touch" when referring to any passages of the works of Franck, since this would possibly send one off in the wrong direction as far as scope and overall sense of the character of pieces of this era. But I would also be hesitant in saying that Franck had no use for Bach's music, since no research that I've done has made this clear. There also seem to be correlations and comparisons that can indeed be made in the music of the = two composers without too much of a stretch.   Stephen Williams    
(back) Subject: Organist position available From: "Daniel Hopkins" <danielwh1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:25:24 -0300   ORGANIST - CHOIR/MUSIC DIRECTOR Trinity Anglican Church, Halifax Candidates must have an appreciation for Anglican liturgy and be willing = to develop a church music program for adults and children. The organ is a three-manual Casavant (1929) and is in good repair. Salary is negotiable. Application may be sent to:   Organist - Choir Director Search Committee C/o Dorothy Hallas Trinity Church 5435 Cogswell Street Halifax, NS B3J 1R1 Phone: 423-7077; e-mail: trinity@supercity.ns.ca         --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 8/21/2002    
(back) Subject: Re: Redundant organs in UK From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:03:22 +0100   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C254BB.15CD7880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Exactly; it's not the temperature, it's the moisture content. =3D20 As I look at this morning's reading, it' 68% - on a cool and slightly =3D misty autumn morning. The lowest it's got this season was 42%. People find that sort of change difficult to adapt to; let alone formed = =3D and shaped pieces of wood which are required to assist resonation. =3D20 Harry [a.k.a. musicman] -----Original Message----- From: OrganMD@aol.com <OrganMD@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: 04 September 2002 22:54 Subject: Re: Redundant organs in UK =3D20 =3D20 Hi all........ =3D20 Here in Salt Lake City, 2 old organs from English churches were =3D attempted, both dried up and fell apart. Average humidity here is 20% =3D or less. =3D20 Bill Hesterman=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C254BB.15CD7880 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1 =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =3D HTML//EN"> <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Exactly; it's not the temperature, = =3D it's the=3D20 moisture content.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>As I look at this morning's reading, it' 68% - on a = =3D cool and=3D20 slightly misty autumn morning. The lowest it's got this season was=3D20 42%.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>People find that sort of change difficult to adapt = =3D to; let=3D20 alone formed and shaped pieces of wood which are required to assist=3D20 resonation.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Harry</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>[a.k.a. musicman]</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = =3D 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><B>-----Original =3D Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=3D20 </B><A href=3D3D"mailto:OrganMD@aol.com">OrganMD@aol.com</A> = &lt;<A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:OrganMD@aol.com">OrganMD@aol.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: = =3D </B><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> =3D &lt;<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A>&gt;<BR><B= =3D >Date:=3D20 </B>04 September 2002 22:54<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Redundant organs = =3D in=3D20 UK<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D size=3D3D3>Hi=3D20 all........<BR><BR>Here in Salt Lake City, 2 old organs from English = =3D   churches were attempted, both dried up and fell apart.&nbsp; Average = =3D   humidity here is 20% or less.<BR><BR>Bill Hesterman</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001D_01C254BB.15CD7880--