PipeChat Digest #3622 - Wednesday, April 23, 2003
 
Organ Specifications - Education please
  by "David Carter" <davidorganist2002@yahoo.com>
RE: Organ Specifications - Education please
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: Organ Specifications - Education please
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
Re: Organ Specifications - Education please
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Digital organs -  and why they don't sound real
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
new chest
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: communing organists and offertory voluntaries
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
West Point, NY: Organ Recital Sunday, April 27 (X-post)
  by <patmai@juno.com>
Re: Digital organs -  and why they don't sound real
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Digital organs -  and why they don't sound real
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Rodgers Organ Users Group Invitation
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
 

(back) Subject: Organ Specifications - Education please From: "David Carter" <davidorganist2002@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 13:14:46 -0700 (PDT)   Dear Pipechatters! It is time once again to further the organ education of this humble = mostly-hymn-playing organist in Sacramento CA. I am interested in knowing what the initials 'TC' mean = in organ specifications. See partial example organ specification below. Replies can be private if = you wish, or post to the list if of general interest.   Thanks! David Carter Sacramento CA   Specification 1975 Fritzsche Organ First Presbyterian Church of Bloomsburg (in Bloomsburg PA) (Full spec available at = http://savagehi.iserver.net/fpcb/music/organ/current_spec.html)   SWELL 8' Geigen Diap. 8' Gedact * 8' Viola 8' Voix (TC) 8' Aeoline 4' Principal 4' Flute 2 2/3' Nasat 2' Blockflote III Plein Jeu 8' Trompette 4' Schalmei Tremelo   * duplexed as 16' Bourdon, TC       __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Organ Specifications - Education please From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:39:42 -0400   David Carter asks:   > I am interested in knowing what the initials 'TC' mean in organ specifications.   It means that the pipes begin at Tenor C, i.e. they lack the bottom = octave.   This is occasionally done with 16' manual stops, celeste ranks, or mutations. It is usually just a money- and space-saving expedient. However, in the case of a flute celeste, one can also argue that a flute's lack of harmonic development minimizes the out-of-tune celeste effect. Therefore there is something of a dilemma especially with the 8' octave, that a noticeable undulation is possible only if a pipe is put far enough out of tune to be offensive.    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Specifications - Education please From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:47:18 -0500   David,   It means that the lowest note starts at Tenor C instead of at the very bottom of the keyboard. There are no pipes on the bottom 12 keys.   Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Specifications - Education please From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:11:37 -0400   On 4/22/03 4:14 PM, "David Carter" <davidorganist2002@yahoo.com> wrote:   > I am interested in knowing what the initials 'TC' mean in organ > specifications. > See partial example organ specification below. Replies can be private if = you > wish, or post to the > list if of general interest.   I'm replying not because I know the answer but to let you know that there are others (or at least this guy) who share(s) your ignorance. My understanding is that TC on a pedal spec means that that stop is not complete: The bottom octave is not there. That is, it extends upward = from "tenor C"--TC. On many stops, it's apparently not important. Like a rank that would not necessarily be EXEPCTED to go down to low "C".   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Digital organs - and why they don't sound real From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:24:32 -0400   At 10:15 PM 4/21/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On a violin chat list someone brought up the idea of directional tone = color >(anyone like me who is unfamiliar with this term can look here for a = brief >discussion: >http://www.acoustics.org/press/133rd/2pea4.html ) >I am wondering if this has anything to do with why digital organs do not >sound the same? >Amy Hi Amy,   It has long been known in the E-Org world, that the way speakers propogate =   sound, will make them fundamentally different from pipe organs, no matter how precise the tone generation is. This makes it that a pipe organ has a =   different feel to it, I mean the air is tensioned differently. Good speakers, lots of audio channels, etc. go a long way, but a speaker is still a speaker. It is interesting in the web-site you refer to, that = they attack the problems with the high frequency more so than the low frequency. This does make sense. I find in general, the high pitched stops, and mixtures, as well as reeds, suffer most in electronic organs, = as they tend to radiate tone very directionally, with lots of high harmonic content, that is filtered, either at the generators (anti-aliasing filters), or in op-amps, mixer boards, amplifiers, or speakers. Beyond that a lot of E-0rgs have composites for mixtures instead of separate = ranks.   When it comes right down to it, most electronic organs can be = significantly improved, form the run of the mill models offered today.   Will they be improved? Yes, but at this point not likely very much, as most purchasers, are more interested in counting keyboards, stops, than in =   artistic purity, if electronic organs can be said to strive for that.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: new chest From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:02:12 -0500   HI List, I have a 6 rank electro-mechanical chest ordered and it has = been laid out as of today ready to go to the woodshop for drilling. Howell = Pipe Organs of Sterling, Il. is doing the work. Gary      
(back) Subject: Re: communing organists and offertory voluntaries From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 19:25:43 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 10:29 AM Subject: RE: communing organists and offertory voluntaries     Perhaps Colin or another of our British friends can > tell us what point in the service the eighteenth-century "Voluntaries" = by > Stanley et al. were intended for.   I happen to have written a couple of articles on this very subject, one in "The Tracker" and a rather more elaborate one in "The Journal of the = British Institute of Organ Studies," vol. 20 for 1996. To cut a long story = short, though some churches had preludes before the service, most churches had a First Voluntary after the Psalms and before the First Lesson at Morning Prayer and a Second Voluntary at the end of the service. The final or Second voluntary was generally an Introduction and Fugue, and you will = find a number of voluntaries by Stanley and others that answer this = description. As some wag has said, a Fugue is a piece where the parts come in and the people go out. The First Voluntary was in the form of an Introduction followed by one or more movements, generally for solo stops such as = Trumpet, Cornet or Flute. You will again be able to pick out which ones fit this category from Stanley's survibving voluntaries.   It is important to realize, however, that voluntaries (including fugues) were normally improvised. Only occasionally did they get written down. Sometimes this was to instruct the composer's students or other "beginners at the organ" who were not yet good at improvising. On other occasions it was for a special concert, as for example at the dedication of a new = organ. You need to bear this in mind with regard to Stanley's voluntaries. This = is still the case in France today, where very elaborate voluntaries including fugues are routinely improvised by the leading organists. Gabriel Faur=E9 = was a church organist for over sixty years and never wrote a single one of his organ voluntaries down, which is a great loss since they are said to have been better than those of Franck, Saint-Saens and Guilmant.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: West Point, NY: Organ Recital Sunday, April 27 (X-post) From: <patmai@juno.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:45:04 -0400   Dear Pipe Chatters,   If anyone is in the neighborhood of West Point, New York, Sunday, April 27, I highly recommend attending Meredith Elaine Baker's organ recital at the Cadet Chapel at 3 PM. Also recommend early arrival for security check and (rather limited) parking.   Her program includes a Voluntary by John Stanley, Bach's Prelude in B Minor, BWV 544, Cesar Franck's Chorale No. 3 in A minor as well as his Pastorale, Paul Hindemith's Sonate III and concludes with the "Pasticcio" of Jean Langlais.   Miss Baker, who has an M.A.. as well as the F. A.G. O., has served as Organist and Director of Music at Most Holy Trinity Chapel, West Point, since 1991; she is also the conductor of the Long Island Choral Society.   The next concert in the Sunday series at the Cadet Chapel will feature yours truly in her Farewell Organ Recital May 18 at 3 PM.   Hope to see some of you who are not already giving concerts that afternoon or who have not promised to support another colleague!   Pat Maimone Post Chapel West Point, NY Oct 1975 - June 2003 yp6867@exmail.usma.army.mil patmai@juno.com   ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital organs - and why they don't sound real From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:09:48 -0400   On 4/22/03 6:24 PM, "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> wrote:   > Will they be improved? Yes, but at this point not likely very much, as > most purchasers, are more interested in counting keyboards, stops, than = in > artistic purity, if electronic organs can be said to strive for that. > Are you saying the Emperor has no underwear?   That's what I thought.   Alan (averting his eyes)      
(back) Subject: Re: Digital organs - and why they don't sound real From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:25:02 -0700   I have often said that the comparison between digital instruments and pipe organs isn't really a fair one, for the following reason:   IF digital instruments were built with note-for-note, stop-by-stop adjustments for voicing, tuning, transient sounds, etc., and IF they were voiced note-for-note, stop-by-stop IN THE CHURCH, and IF they were built with one speaker PER note for EACH stop (!), so as to give the spatial effect of a pipe organ, and IF those speakers were placed in a reflective case of the proper size in the same DISPOSITION as a pipe organ (8's in front, mixtures and reeds in back), and IF there was a separate tone generator FOR each note of each stop with NO borrowing or extending beyond what might be done on a good pipe organ (no filters to make more than one stop from one set of generators, for instance), THEN you *might* have a fair comparison ... BUT ... I imagine the price would be virtually the same AS a pipe organ, so the whole exercise is moot. If it's going to cost as much, and take up as much space, then why not HAVE a pipe organ?   It would be FAIRER to compare off-the-shelf digital instruments with Moller Artistes, etc. (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote: > > On 4/22/03 6:24 PM, "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> wrote: > > > Will they be improved? Yes, but at this point not likely very much, = as > > most purchasers, are more interested in counting keyboards, stops, = than in > > artistic purity, if electronic organs can be said to strive for that. > > > Are you saying the Emperor has no underwear? > > That's what I thought. > > Alan (averting his eyes) > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Rodgers Organ Users Group Invitation From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 23:34:06 -0400   In a brief lull in conversation here, I would like to take a moment and = invite any interested to the Rodgers Organ Users Group, an independent group that concentrates on the = musical aspect of the Rodgers Organ...with some side excursions...   Back to CHAT...thanks!   noel jones, aago moderator, rodgers organ users group at: www.frogmusic.com