PipeChat Digest #3623 - Wednesday, April 23, 2003
 
off topic - related to recent marriage thread
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Digital organs -  and why they don't sound real
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the  Chicago are
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: Digital organs -  and why they don't sound real
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
RE: Digital organs -  and why they don't sound real.
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: communing organists and offertory voluntaries
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the  Chicago are
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the  Chicago
  by <Swedish5702@aol.com>
Re: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near  the  Chicag
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: communing organists and offertory voluntaries
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE:  Re: pipe organ and praise band/pipes & the public
  by "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com>
Re: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near  the Chicago
  by <Swedish5702@aol.com>
RE: communing organists and offertory voluntaries
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
RE: West Point, NY: Organ Recital Sunday, April 27 (X-post)
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: communing organists and offertory voluntaries
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
ArcherGibson:  whoozat?
  by "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
 

(back) Subject: off topic - related to recent marriage thread From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:42:59 -0500     --------------040604040402020906030001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   After the recent conversations regarding the pros and cons of marriage - I thought the group might enjoy this clip from today's Bonehead of the Day newsletter (especially you, Glenda)     ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ This is today's installment of the Bonehead-Of-The-Day award by Jerry Lerman. We have 30,261 subscribers! ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~     I read this classified ad quite a long time ago in a newspaper called the Photo Shopper in Panama City Florida. I don't remember the date. It was many years ago. It said, "Wedding bands for sale, many diamonds. $500 or will trade for hand gun."   I think someone really wanted out of their marriage one way or the other. Hee Hee.             --------------040604040402020906030001 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" = content=3D"text/html;charset=3DISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> After the recent conversations regarding the pros and cons of marriage - I thought the group might enjoy this clip from today's Bonehead of the Day newsletter (especially you, Glenda)<br> <br> <br> <pre>^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ This is today's installment of the Bonehead-Of-The-Day award by Jerry Lerman. We have 30,261 subscribers! ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ <http: 0,00.html?search=3D"filter#"><http: 0660720197921.xml=3D""><http: //www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=3D"F7FEBE00-C9B4-41BF-A293-0" dc6de9a9cb1=3D"">   I read this classified ad quite a long time ago in a newspaper called the Photo Shopper in Panama City Florida. I don't remember the date. It was many years ago. It said, "Wedding bands for sale, many diamonds. $500 or will trade for hand gun."   I think someone really wanted out of their marriage one way or the other. Hee Hee.         <http:><http:><href =3D" http://www.paypal.com "> </href></http:></http:></http:></http:></http:></pre> </body> </html>   --------------040604040402020906030001--    
(back) Subject: Re: Digital organs - and why they don't sound real From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:13:22 -0400   At 11:09 PM 4/22/2003 -0400, you wrote: >On 4/22/03 6:24 PM, "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> wrote: > > > Will they be improved? Yes, but at this point not likely very much, = as > > most purchasers, are more interested in counting keyboards, stops, = than in > > artistic purity, if electronic organs can be said to strive for that. > > >Are you saying the Emperor has no underwear? > >That's what I thought. > >Alan (averting his eyes) Alan,   I know you wouldn't want anything but a real pipe organ, maybe nothing = less than a really good tracker, but the whole marketplace makes decisions for = a variety of reasons.   There are those on this list who turn their noses up when discussing = little Moellers, or little Wicks organs, as not being good examples of musical instruments. Yet they were affordable, as pipe organs go. And, something =   is better than nothing. Artistic merit and purity was not really the = basis for these instruments either.   As for electronic organs, the low end ( lower price range), has basically become a commodity, where the lowest price is the order of the day. And commodities are sold on the basis of marketability, not whether they are well built, or even perform up to specification.   That is why electronic organs, even though technically they may have improved, sound wise it is not that noticeable. With digital organs, if you need an extra stop, it is not that hard to find a way to do it, even = if you have to compromise to do it. To lower the price, you can always find = a cheaper amplifier, speaker etc, but on the spec. sheet it is going to look =   the same.   All one has to do, is look at say audio, or cameras, or VCRs etc, and you will know what I am trying to say. My stereo equipment, which for the = most part dates back to the early 80s, sounds better than 90% of the sound equipment sold today, and yet I didn't pay all that much for it. Today's audio equipment, may come with a remote, lots more features, more watts, more channels etc, but a lot of it has a hard time playing a tune. So = much for progress.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the Chicago area From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:16:22 -0500   Sunday May 18th at 3PM CATOE presents JELANI EDDINGTON in concert at the Sanfilippo Victorian Palace on the 5/80 Junchen-Wurlitzer theatre pipe organ. Plum Tree Farm, Barrington Hills, doors open at 2:30 PM show starts at 3 PM. Tickets are =   available by advance sale only. $40 each for concert and following reception in the Carousel Building. In addition to the concert is an opportunity to view the fabulous Sanfilippo collection. Order tickets from CATOE BOX OFFICE, 173 Rosedale Ave., Aurora, Il 60506-4530. Call (847) 470-0743 or =   email: info@catoe.org for information.   In addition to the concert there will be ample opportunity to view the fabulous Sanfilippo collection of over a hundred mechanical musical devices, nickelodeons, violin players in addition to other antique = devices. The Sanfilippo music room features chandeliers and other appointments from =   the movie palaces of yesterday. In the Carousel building there is a full size french Carousel and more large band organs and a train.Hope to see = you there. A map with directions to Plum Tree Farm will be included with = tickets.   regards,   Jon   [Who is still working on his mini-Mighty Wurlitzer]    
(back) Subject: Re: Digital organs - and why they don't sound real From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:23:03 -0400   At 08:25 PM 4/22/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I have often said that the comparison between digital instruments and >pipe organs isn't really a fair one, for the following reason: > >IF digital instruments were built with note-for-note, stop-by-stop >adjustments for voicing, tuning, transient sounds, etc., and IF they >were voiced note-for-note, stop-by-stop IN THE CHURCH, and IF they were >built with one speaker PER note for EACH stop (!), so as to give the >spatial effect of a pipe organ, and IF those speakers were placed in a >reflective case of the proper size in the same DISPOSITION as a pipe >organ (8's in front, mixtures and reeds in back), and IF there was a >separate tone generator FOR each note of each stop with NO borrowing or >extending beyond what might be done on a good pipe organ (no filters to >make more than one stop from one set of generators, for instance), THEN >you *might* have a fair comparison ... BUT ... I imagine the price would >be virtually the same AS a pipe organ, so the whole exercise is moot. If >it's going to cost as much, and take up as much space, then why not HAVE >a pipe organ? > >It would be FAIRER to compare off-the-shelf digital instruments with >Moller Artistes, etc. (chuckle). > >Cheers, > >Bud Bud,   You are right. To really properly replicate a pipe organ, the price of an =   electronic organ ends up being much higher than typical price being charged. It may not be as much as what a top notch tracker builder commands, but could be at least 50% of what a typical elctro-pneumatic organ fetches. At that rate, there would be few customers for electronic organs.   Beyond the price problem when doing things correctly in electronic organs, =   you still have the fact of technical obsolesence. The latest and greatest =   in 20 years time, is no longer the latest and greatest, and may not even = be able to be fixed, in case something goes bump in the night.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: RE: Digital organs - and why they don't sound real. From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:05:30 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Colin wrote:   (SNIP) > IF I use my own very high-end recording gear and > record close-in, then replay it through a state of the > art speaker system in church, a listener would be hard > pushed to know that it wasn't the instrument being > played live. > > All this would come from a digital tape or disc. (SNIP)   The day I finished the restoration job on the Walcker Organ at our Priest Seminary by coincidence the Clergy of Caracas had its monthly meeting in = the chapel. When the meeting was over, I played THE Toccata & Fugue in D minor for them without previous advertising. The clergymen were first astounded, then enjoyed. One of them told me: = "Gee, this organ sounds marvelous- like a record!!"   Just anecdotic. Cheers Andres. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.      
(back) Subject: RE: communing organists and offertory voluntaries From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:52:20 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Randolph Runyon asked:   > To make this more relevant to our chat list, do you organists generally > commune? If so, when? Before or after?   In my catholic parish: No. My parish would need a Cessna for that <g> because the choir is very high and far away from the chancel. And = Communion after the Mass was barred because too many foolish and lazy people who = came too late asked for a Communion without having concelebrated the Mass, and this is no valid.   In the German Lutheran Community: When I sing in or conduct the Choir we have chance to commune- agreement with the Pastor. When I have to play (substituting my colleague): If it's in the Chapel the pastor comes to the organ, I commune as last one. In the church = I join the last group (the choir there is not so high, church: 400 seats). Once we had an interesting variant: Since it is forbodden to throw away surplus wine and bread, the Pastor invited me to commune after the = worship.   (And yes, I am one of these heretics who comune in *both* catholic and lutheran churches- we have a very active ecumenic movement here. And the german lutherans use real wine).   > How is the offering voluntary regarded in your > church? As (a) an opportunity to present some meaningful and beautiful > music, whether by the organist, a soloist, or the choir, or as (b) = filler to > cover the time it takes the ushers to take up the money, and = consequently > should be no longer than strictly necessary for that most important = task?   In the German Lutheran Church: It was (a) 20 years ago, then (b)12 years = ago and right now the offering is done after the worship at the church door since a Pastor said "money affairs have to be separated from God's affairs".   In catholic church the "offering" has another meaning- it's the offering = of bread and wine before it's consecrated. Sometimes I sing, sometimes I play an interlude (for that certain organ music pieces from catholic composers are called "offertoire"). Anyway it's a "filler": I have to finish when = the Offering Ritual at the main Altar is over. This way I started to improvise the offering voluntaries instead playing literature. Just to complete: The acolythes start to collect the money in more or less discreet manner when the Offering begins, and continue during the Mass = until they're through- my parish church is a big one (1000+ seats).   Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.      
(back) Subject: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the Chicago area From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:40:12 -0500   Sunday May 18th at 3PM CATOE presents JELANI EDDINGTON in concert at the Sanfilippo Victorian Palace on the 5/80 Junchen-Wurlitzer theatre pipe organ.   I probably should have mentioned that the purpose of the event is to help raise funds for the project to return the Wurlitzer to the Oriental = Theatre in Chicago. We are currently working on phase one to ready the console for =   display in the theatre lobby while the rest of the project is underway.   Jon    
(back) Subject: Re: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the Chicago area From: <Swedish5702@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:48:00 EDT     --part1_2f.386f497b.2bd80fb0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I remember the Oriental Theatre well. A young Walt Strony played that = jazzy sounding Wurlitzer for the 1977 ATOS National Convention. Somewhere in my tape collection I have the results of his great playing. That fabulous decorated console...the sounds...the atmosphere and the knowing that George Wright would be performing at the nearby Chicago = Theatre made that convention so very special. Returning that special Wurlitzer to the Oriental Theatre would be the = icing on the cake. Why was the organ removed in the first place? Cheers, Craig J.   --part1_2f.386f497b.2bd80fb0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000080" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial Cyr" LANG=3D3D"0"><B> I remember the = Oriental The=3D atre well. A young Walt Strony played that jazzy sounding Wurlitzer for = the=3D20=3D 1977 ATOS National Convention. Somewhere in my tape collection I have the = re=3D sults of his great playing.<BR> That fabulous decorated console...the sounds...the atmosphere and the = knowi=3D ng that George Wright would be performing at the nearby Chicago Theatre = made=3D that convention so very special.<BR> Returning that special Wurlitzer to the Oriental Theatre would be the = icing=3D on the cake.<BR> Why was the organ removed in the first place?<BR> Cheers,<BR> Craig J.</B></FONT></HTML>   --part1_2f.386f497b.2bd80fb0_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the Chicago area From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:03:07 -0500   At 11:48 AM 4/23/03 -0400, you wrote: >I remember the Oriental Theatre well. > >Why was the organ removed in the first place? >Cheers, >Craig J.   The theatre was slated for demolition and for some reason the prospective buyer pulled out fortunately. The organ had been donated to CATOE when the =   building was scheduled to be torn down and has been in storage ever since...with some detiorationn and theft in the intervening years...Now = the theatre has been restored and is interested in having the organ re-installed. Present project is for total restoration of the organ including replacement of pilfered items and return to the theatre. One of the most dangerous things that can happen to an organ is to be stored somewhere,,, it becomes easily pilfered unless very secure storage is provided and is prone to deterioration as no storage facility is ever as good as a standing organ in a chamber...many organ have been lost in storage to vandalism, deterioration etc, and some cases totally been destroyed when the storage facility had a fire as was the case with the Chicago Stadium Barton.   jch      
(back) Subject: Re: communing organists and offertory voluntaries From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:37:15 -0400   On 4/23/03 10:52 AM, "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> wrote:   > we have a very active ecumenic movement here. And the > german lutherans use real wine).   Well, Andres, as we Lutherans sometimes say, "If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for US."   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Re: pipe organ and praise band/pipes & the public From: "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:41:03 -0700 (PDT)   The taste of the general congregation members is not as bad as some of the modern "ministers" and praze band leaders think.   Eventually, I think that future choir directors and organists will be comprised of people who actually know something about music, and these praze bands will be returned to the beer parlors where they belong.   D. Keith Morgan       __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: For those who remember the "Mighty Wurlitzer" & are near the Chicago area From: <Swedish5702@aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:44:44 EDT     --part1_9.fa3bbf8.2bd81cfc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hello JCH: Thank You for the in-depth answer on the Oriental. I also heard that wonderful Chicago Stadium Barton that was sadly destroyed by fire. The 1977 convention was a truly fantastic event. So many great pipe = organs. To me, the Chicago area IS the TO place to be! Best, Craig J.   --part1_9.fa3bbf8.2bd81cfc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000080" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial Cyr" LANG=3D3D"0"><B>Hello JCH:<BR> Thank You for the in-depth answer on the Oriental. I also heard that = wonder=3D ful Chicago Stadium Barton that was sadly destroyed by fire. <BR> The 1977 convention was a truly fantastic event. So many great pipe = organs.=3D <BR> To me, the Chicago area IS the TO place to be!<BR> Best,<BR> Craig J.</B></FONT></HTML>   --part1_9.fa3bbf8.2bd81cfc_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: communing organists and offertory voluntaries From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:51:49 -0400   Andres Gunther writes:   > In the German Lutheran Church: It was (a) 20 years ago, then (b)12 years ago and right now the offering is done after the worship at the church door since a Pastor said "money affairs have to be separated from God's affairs".   I am surprised that a German Lutheran clergyman would espouse such a Manichaean idea today. When I attended a retreat way back in 1966 at the Ecumenical Institute in Chicago, a quasi-monastic group steeped in neo-orthodoxy (which is a German Lutheran-dominated school of thought, = isn't it?), they explained that it was important at every Eucharist for everyone to make a monetary contribution, even if only a symbolic penny, to participate in the offertory of bread and wine, the human offering of earthly gifts that would become the divine offering of heavenly gifts. = I've thought ever since that this is the soundest approach theologically.   This participation is often ceremonially underlined today with an = offertory procession that includes the bread and wine along with the alms carried = from the back of the church up to the altar. I'm not opposed to this, although it is a little fussy and inconvenient if done every week. Isn't it better idea in theory than in practice? It means that the celebrant can't even begin his part of the offertory until the people have completed theirs. = And how do we handle this musically? Break up our singing or playing into = three little sections (before / during / after the procession) or just let this vaunted procession happen without any specific musical acknowledgement? Neither way is very satisfactory as regular practice.   And in some churches, each communicant is expected to move a host from one dish to another when entering the church-- at least in these parlous = times, a superfluity of yuckiness if there ever was one-- and I think I'm *less* squeamish than the average person.   But I have nothing against the theology that this all this is meant to demonstrate. Again, it seems strange that the theological sophistication = of German Lutheranism would harbor someone desiring to run in the opposite direction.              
(back) Subject: RE: West Point, NY: Organ Recital Sunday, April 27 (X-post) From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:06:20 -0400   > If anyone is in the neighborhood of West Point, New York, Sunday, April 27, I highly recommend attending Meredith Elaine Baker's organ recital at the Cadet Chapel at 3 PM. Also recommend early arrival for security check and (rather limited) parking.   > The next concert in the Sunday series at the Cadet Chapel will feature yours truly in her Farewell Organ Recital May 18 at 3 PM.     Dear Pat:   These sound very attractive, but it would be impossible for anyone to = attend who plays on Sunday morning and lives at a considerable distance. This is not a good time for much of the potential audience.   I live in the Philadelphia area, and it is all I can do to get to evensong or some other event in New York City by 4:00.   Although I have lived here almost twenty years and have wanted to hear = West Point Chapel organ, I have yet to do so (although I have been in the building once). I put it down to ignorance, but now I wonder if the impediment is more logistical.   Are the recitals always at 3:00 on Sundays, or are they sometimes later?   Paul    
(back) Subject: Re: communing organists and offertory voluntaries From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:47:41 -0400   On 4/23/03 12:51 PM, "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> wrote:   > Andres Gunther writes: > >> In the German Lutheran Church: It was (a) 20 years ago, then (b)12 = years >> ago and right now the offering is done after the worship at the church = door >> since a Pastor said "money affairs have to be separated from God's >> affairs". > > I am surprised that a German Lutheran clergyman would espouse such a > Manichaean idea today.   Paul: To no one's astonishment, you are 100 percent correct. I'm not = only surprised but significantly dismayed.   > When I attended a retreat way back in 1966 at the Ecumenical Institute > in Chicago, a quasi-monastic group steeped in neo-orthodoxy (which is a > German Lutheran-dominated school of thought, isn't it?),   I think that would be a reasonable statement.   > they explained that it was important at every Eucharist for everyone > to make a monetary contribution, even if only a symbolic penny, to > participate in the offertory of bread and wine, the human offering of > earthly gifts that would become the divine offering of heavenly gifts. = I've > thought ever since that this is the soundest approach theologically.   Agreed. You wouldn't want to make a "Law" out of it, but they are a valid part of the process of "offering." > > This participation is often ceremonially underlined today with an = offertory > procession that includes the bread and wine along with the alms carried = from > the back of the church up to the altar. I'm not opposed to this, = although > it is a little fussy and inconvenient if done every week. Isn't it = better > idea in theory than in practice?   Can't really agree. We do it every week (for the past three years, prior = to which the elements were simply brought from the credence). Seems like a solid symbolic act to me. For me, "fussy" is more a matter not of WHAT is done, but HOW it is done.   > It means that the celebrant can't even begin his part of the offertory = until > the people have completed theirs.   In our rite, celebrant has little or nothing to do with offertory; the DEACON prepares the table before the offerings arrive, and has only to put and pour once they DO arrive. And the people haven't "completed theirs" until that putting and pouring has happened (which is why they're standing for the procession of the gifts [as the choir is singing, generally]). = Then and only then the money-gifts are removed from mensa to credence, = celebrant steps up to the altar, gets his pitch for the Preface, and proceeds therewith.   > And how do we handle this musically? Break up our singing or playing = into > three little sections (before / during / after the procession) or just = let > this vaunted procession happen without any specific musical = acknowledgement? > Neither way is very satisfactory as regular practice.   Start "before," and continue until finished--by which time, ideally, the gifts are on their way to the altar, or have already arrived. (Or even = have been totally prepared and the censing has begun--or may even be finished.) > > And in some churches, each communicant is expected to move a host from = one > dish to another when entering the church-- at least in these parlous = times, > a superfluity of yuckiness if there ever was one-- and I think I'm = *less* > squeamish than the average person.   I'm with you there; presumably it's only to get a "close count" of hosts = for the communion. Who cares? Let the deacon guess. Leftovers go into the aumbry anyway. (Or are consumed.) > > But I have nothing against the theology that this all this is meant to > demonstrate. Again, it seems strange that the theological = sophistication of > German Lutheranism would harbor someone desiring to run in the opposite > direction. > Again: Totally agreed. Where did HE learn theology?   Alan      
(back) Subject: ArcherGibson: whoozat? From: "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:53:18 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --MS_Mac_OE_3133961598_11406535_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit   Help! Relatively standard references at hand do not include comment = about Archer Gibson, whose organ setting of the "Liebstod" from Tristan und = Isolde (NY: G. Schirmer, 1902) I am about to play in another 12 days. Any info would be appreciated.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA   --MS_Mac_OE_3133961598_11406535_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>ArcherGibson: &nbsp;whoozat? </TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> Help! &nbsp;&nbsp;Relatively standard references at hand do not include = com=3D ment about Archer Gibson, whose organ setting of the &quot;Liebstod&quot; = fr=3D om <I>Tristan und Isolde</I> (NY: G. Schirmer, 1902) I am about to play in = a=3D nother 12 days. &nbsp;Any info would be appreciated. <BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Karl E. Moyer<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lancaster PA </BODY> </HTML>     --MS_Mac_OE_3133961598_11406535_MIME_Part--