PipeChat Digest #3848 - Monday, August 4, 2003
 
Re: Biltmore organ
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Hey, ain't that called JAZZ?
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Biltmore Skinner
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec.
  by "mack02445" <mack02445@mindspring.com>
Re: Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec.
  by <Swedish5702@aol.com>
Re: Where did the organ go?
  by "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com>
Re: Marva Dawn
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Music for a wedding
  by "Don Sizemore" <dls@metalab.unc.edu>
Re: Biltmore House - Lock Haven, PA Skinner..
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: Biltmore House - Lock Haven, PA Skinner..
  by <Swedish5702@aol.com>
Contemporary 'dis'-service
  by "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com>
Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?)
  by "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com>
Re: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
where did the organ go
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
Re: Subject: Darwinian organists or fossilised organists?
  by "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore organ From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 18:40:25 -0500   The organ was installed by John Farmer. Only the facade is original to the house. Unfortunately, I do not have his email address, and do not know if he has a website. You could try searching, or get in touch with the Organ Historical Society for more information. John showed some of us through while the organ was demonstrated for an OHS convention some years ago. Very nice installation! Roy Redman   Tyler Robertson wrote:   > I've recently visited the Biltmore esate in North Carolina and was wondering > if anybody knew what the stoplist was on the organ in the dining hall. They > wouldn't let me up there in the balcony! I've looked around but can't find > anything specific. Thanks! > > Tyler W. Robertson > Organist, Handbell Choir Director,First United Methodist Church, Temple, TX > Organist, Baylor University Concert Choir > Organist, Accompanist, Baylor University Women's Chorus > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Hey, ain't that called JAZZ? From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:55:00 EDT   AFTER it was invented. Before that time, Fats Waller played jazz on the = RCA Camden Estey church pipe organ, and did so perfectly. He called it the = "God Box!"   Musically, Stan Krider   In a message dated 08/03/2003 7:41:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gfc234@aol.com writes:   <snip> B3-Thats the JAZZ organ. period.      
(back) Subject: Biltmore Skinner From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:36:26 EDT   Here is the stoplist of the Biltmore House E.M. Skinner organ opus 248 1916 Originally installed in the residence of Cornelius Rea Agnew, Armonk, NY; rebuilt and installed in the Biltmore House by John Farmer 1999 information from OHS Handbook 2001 North Carolina   Great (enclosed 7 1/2 in. w.p) 8 First Diapason 8 Concert Flute 8 Salicional 8 Voix Celestes 8 Sptiz Floete 8 Flute Celest (tc) 4 Octave 4 Flute 8 Cornopean 8 French Horn 8 Fugel Horn 8 Clarinet 8 Vox Humana Celesta Celesta Sub Tremolo   Swell (Duplexed from GT) 8 First Diapason 8 Concert Flute 8 Salicional 8 Voix Celestes 8 Spitz Floete 8 Flute Celeste 4 Octave 4 Flute 8 Cornopean 8 French Horn 8 Clarinet 8 Vox Humana Chimes Tremolo   Pedal (unenclosed, 7 1/2 in. w.p.) 16 Diapason 16 Bourdon 16 Lieblich Gedeckt 8 Gedeckt (ext. Bourdon) 8 Still Gedeckt (ext. Lieblich)   Couplers Gt/Ped, Sw/Ped, Sw/Ped 4, Sw/Gt, Sw 16, Sw 4, Sw/Gt 16, Sw/Gt 4   Pistons Sw 1-2-3-4 Gt 1-2-3-4 Ped 1-2-3 Set    
(back) Subject: Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec. From: "mack02445" <mack02445@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:06:43 -0400   The following is copied out of the OHS Handbook for the 2001 Convention, This is Skinner Opus 248, 1916. Restored and reconfiguration with two tonal additions., 1999   GREAT [Enclosed] 8' First Diapason 61 8' Concert Flute 61 8' Salicional 61 8' Voix Celestes 61 8' Spitz Floete 61 Flute Celeste [t.c] 49 4' Octave 61 4' Flute 61 8' Cornopean 61 8' French Horn 61 8' Flügel Horn 61 8' Clarinet 61 8' Vox Humana 61 Celesta 61 Bars Celesta Sup Tremolo   SWELL   Thje Swell is the same as the Great except for chimes, all from the Great.   PEDAL Unenclosed 16' Diapason 32 Mostly the Case pipes (Hutchings) 16' Bourdon 32 16' Leiblich Gedeckt 32 8' Gedeckt 12 ext. Bourdon 8' Still Gedeckt 12 ext. Leiblich Gedeckt   Couplers Drawknobs in Nameboard Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal Swell to Pedal 4' Swell to Great Swell 16' Swell 4' Swell to Great 16' Swell to Great 4'   COMBINATION ACTION adjustable and visibly moving the stopknobs Swell1-2-3-4 Great 1-2-3-4 Pedal 1-2-3 Combination Set        
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 18:14:25 -0700   OK, it has most of the voices I remember, except for the unit Chimney=20 Flute ... are there two swell boxes?   Cheers,   Bud   mack02445 wrote: > The following is copied out of the OHS Handbook for the 2001=20 > Convention, This is Skinner Opus 248, 1916. > Restored and reconfiguration with two tonal additions., 1999 >=20 > GREAT [Enclosed] > 8' First Diapason 61 > 8' Concert Flute 61 > 8' Salicional 61 > 8' Voix Celestes 61 > 8' Spitz Floete 61 > Flute Celeste [t.c] 49 > 4' Octave 61 > 4' Flute 61 > 8' Cornopean 61 > 8' French Horn 61 > 8' Fl=FCgel Horn 61 > 8' Clarinet 61 > 8' Vox Humana 61 > Celesta 61 Bars > Celesta Sup > Tremolo >=20 > SWELL >=20 > Thje Swell is the same as the Great except for chimes, all from the Gr= eat. >=20 > PEDAL Unenclosed > 16' Diapason 32 Mostly the Case pipes (Hutchings) > 16' Bourdon 32 > 16' Leiblich Gedeckt 32 > 8' Gedeckt 12 ext. Bourdon > 8' Still Gedeckt 12 ext. Leiblich Gedeckt >=20 > Couplers Drawknobs in Nameboard > Great to Pedal > Swell to Pedal > Swell to Pedal 4' > Swell to Great > Swell 16' > Swell 4' > Swell to Great 16' > Swell to Great 4' >=20 > COMBINATION ACTION adjustable and visibly moving the stopknobs > Swell1-2-3-4 > Great 1-2-3-4 > Pedal 1-2-3 > Combination Set >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >=20 >=20 >=20        
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec. From: <Swedish5702@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:51:28 EDT   Hello All: What year was this Skinner built? Also, was it built in the Boston shop = or in the Westfield shop? Reason for asking, my home church St. Luke Reformed in Lock Haven, Pa. = has the same stoplist. Thank you. Best, Craig Johnson Lock Haven, Pa.    
(back) Subject: Re: Where did the organ go? From: "V. David Barton" <vdbarton@erols.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:59:18 -0400   This thread reminds me of something that happened early in this = summer.=3D20 Once a year we let the youth conduct both Sunday morning services. This = =3D year they didn't even THINK of using the organ for any part of the =3D either services. On a normal Sunday it would be entirely the opposite. = =3D Not only that, they were allowed to sing whatever they wanted, unlike =3D our full time choir director who regularly gets her hymn choices =3D overruled because of lack of familiarity with the congregation. They =3D chose an opening "chorus" that was written in 2002, and more than =3D obviously NOT written for a choir to try to sing, much less a piano or =3D organ to play. The chancel choir DID sing, to try to help the =3D congregation through it, however, even they thought it was boring and =3D UN-exiting.=3D20 As far as responsive readings and congregational call to worship, they =3D DID do them. Except they DIDN'T use the Apostles Creed, nor any other =3D elegant reading provided in the United Methodist Hymnal. They wrote =3D something that was "cool" and "fresh." As far as the responsive reading = =3D went, I was SURPRISED about that.=3D20 They didn't want to do the choral call to prayer, or the choral =3D response.=3D20     So, then, Josh, are you saying that in the UMC it is the young people of = =3D the laity, themselves, who are pressing for these liturgical reforms? =3D If so, that's quite different from what I perceive to be happening =3D within ECUSA (my church). There, it seems to be the clergy who are the = =3D driving force. It is the clergy who are working so hard to toss a =3D millennium of liturgical and musical tradition out and replace it with =3D -- what? third-rate cabaret music? They (the clergy) are ramming it =3D down the throats of the laity, most of whom don't want any part of it. = =3D They keep pushing the "new," decrying the traditional as "old hat." All = =3D this is done in the name of "rejuveniating and renewing" the church. =3D Funny thing, though; our church's membership has fallen by half during =3D my adult lifetime (about 40 years). The maths simply don't work.   Rather than voting with their feet, it would be much better if people =3D stayed on board and, instead, voted with their checkbooks -- *by keeping = =3D them firmly closed!* If contributions fell of to the point that the =3D rector's salary could no longer be met, he (or she) might get the idea =3D that the people were pissed off! Nothing else seems to be getting =3D through.=3D20   It seems like some things they have been taught to do, and they will =3D always do them, but some things have gotten so very relaxed that the =3D actual meaning of the event gets left out. I didn't know what to think = =3D after the service was over. Mind you, they only get the opportunity to = =3D conduct a service once a year. Should we be supportive of the way they = =3D do it? Should we let them think that what is "cool" and "in" at other =3D churches right now, should be something that is "okay" at our church for = =3D right now? I mean, I WANT to be supportive. Nothing makes me happier =3D than to see youth that ARE interested in church, and who are very active = =3D in church! Every Sunday we have a choice of many acolytes to help us =3D conduct our services. Each year we have so much participation from the = =3D younger people in handbells, handchimes, and many other youth and =3D children's choirs.=3D20   Things are great with my church right now, the music is beautiful and =3D uplifting, and we have more than enough participation in the music =3D department. But as the organist in me looks forward in time, I am =3D afraid of what church will be like when these same youth are adults in =3D this particular United Methodist Church, and ARE the pastors, and =3D program staff, and music directors, and musicians. =3D20   My previous organ professor Dr. Ronald Hough, turned down his church =3D when they asked him to accompany the band on the elegant and large =3D Aeolian Skinner for their "contemporary" service. He has made me aware = =3D than their main services are not what they used to be, and the =3D "contemporary" service is doing great. What happens when ALL the =3D services at that church are contemporary? Does the organist finally =3D accept that things change and reduce the stature of the grand Aeolian =3D Skinner by playing with a "praise and worship team," or let the =3D magnificent instrument sit there unplayed?=3D20   I often wonder: will we have to live with the change, and accept this =3D new-coming era in worship? Will it come and eventually spread to every = =3D church when the new generation takes over? What do we, as organists, DO = =3D about it, if it comes to our church? Will the "King of instruments" =3D soon be dethroned?=3D20   I certainly won't live to see this drama played out to its fullest =3D extent, and you may not, either. But, I expect history will eventually = =3D record that by the Year of Grace 2003, the battle had already been lost = =3D and traditional forms of worship (together with the organ) had already =3D lost their relevance, having become a dinosaur which had simply not yet = =3D lain down to accept its own extinction.   Interesting posting. Keep them coming.   Dave          
(back) Subject: Re: Marva Dawn From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:06:10 EDT   Marva Dawn is a wonder in this age of if i do not hear it on MTV or the = radio it cannot be in my church.   Alan, she is great and a Lutheran--had a column in the magazine for a year = or two.   give us a book report!   dale in florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Music for a wedding From: "Don Sizemore" <dls@metalab.unc.edu> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:08:02 -0400 (EDT)     i don't think i've seen anyone mention the david johnson trumpet tunes - my personal favorite collection.   donald www.ibiblio.org formerly known as SunSITE 919.962.5646 and stoof.    
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore House - Lock Haven, PA Skinner.. From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:11:06 -0500   The Skinner presently at Biltmore was built in 1916 in the Boston plant. = =3D The Lock Haven organ (opus 445) was built in 1923 at the Westport plant = =3D after Skinner bought that facility.   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Swedish5702@aol.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: Biltmore House E.M. Skinner Spec.     Hello All: What year was this Skinner built? Also, was it built in the Boston =3D shop or in the Westfield shop? Reason for asking, my home church St. Luke Reformed in Lock Haven, Pa. = =3D has the same stoplist. Thank you. Best, Craig Johnson Lock Haven, Pa.  
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore House - Lock Haven, PA Skinner.. From: <Swedish5702@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:13:49 EDT   Thank You! Best, Craig    
(back) Subject: Contemporary 'dis'-service From: "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:16:26 -0500   <<<Are you saying that in the UMC it is the young people of the laity, themselves, who are pressing for these liturgical reforms?>>>   I play in a UMC and we have recently (January) started a contemporary service. Before that point, everything seemed to be fine, we had two traditional services which had a good following, and the contemporary music was left with the youth dept. across the street during part of Sunday school time. The youth department was huge at that time. Since the youth got their dose of contemporary music during that time, they would all be present at the latter traditional service, and we had a nice blend of all ages in the congregation. Since we started the contemporary service, the youth have virtually disappeared from our sanctuary. They all now go to the contemp service. As a college student, it was nice to have people my age to share the worship with me, but since their departure, playing there just feels emptier. Church attendance as a whole has also seemed to drop off. The contemporary service which started at about 150 strong is now around 60 a week after 7 months.   I heard that the reason we started the new service was to appease many members in the congregation who threatened to leave if it wasn't offered. Now, it doesn't even appear that those people even come to that service anymore, but just drop their kids off in the morning. I suppose I should get to the point of this post rather than just ramble on about an all too well known situation. As far as I could tell from my church the youth were happy with the way they had to worship. I don't think they were the ones pushing for the contemporary service. I do know however, that some of the people really pushing for this service, or those who are now going, were around to see the first airplanes fly. Interesting huh? I, in my 21 years of age am pushing for music of the past, and others in their 60-80 years of age want music two generations ahead of them. Maybe in a few years when everything gets so tangeled and out of proportion the world will explode and Jesus will come again :)         Tyler W. Robertson Organist, Handbell Choir Director,First United Methodist Church, Temple, TX Organist, Baylor University Concert Choir Organist, Accompanist, Baylor University Women's Chorus   _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail    
(back) Subject: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?) From: "Sand Lawn" <glawn@jam.rr.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:20:21 -0500   The youth at my church planned their own service once... it was held on = =3D a Sunday evening.... was basically a copy of a camp service they had =3D recently attended. When they were offered the chance to do another =3D service the next month, they declined, but asked to be allowed to read =3D the lessons during a regular Sunday morning worship. One said, the =3D church service they planned did not feel right! That made my day! =3D20   On another note, a large church in South Louisiana recently cancelled =3D the Praise Service with all the Contemporary Music. The reason was =3D actually that those attending the Contemporary service were not =3D contributing to the church at all...... the offerings were less than 20% = =3D of that collected at the traditional service. =3D20   Just a couple of thougts.   Sand      
(back) Subject: Re: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:22:00 EDT   Has anyone been compiling these "where did the organ go?" and other emails dealing with the subject of contemporary music at worship services? I would be most interested in a compilation of such!   Thanks   Scott F. Foppiano Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.    
(back) Subject: where did the organ go From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:46:00 -0500 (CDT)   Alan or others... I do an eclectic mix of music because I believe in it, plus it follows the theology of Vatican II. (And I'm not a "cradle Catholic".) Also, I wanted to demonstrate an organ's versatility to parishioners who thought the organ only belongs to the pre-Vatican II days. The parish has about about 3000 households, is basically caucasian, and in a upscale suburb of Chicago.   My predecessor had taught in the parish school, and eventually ended up directing the music used in weekend worship. She did some good things, but obviously had limited knowledge of the history of church music and the possibilities. My being hired happened with the current pastor, who admitted he was worried about my "high church" (read trained) background. However, his favorite music is the Baroque period!! He also believes the parish should not be divided by the various liturgical/musical camps so often found in Roman parishes. Unfortunately, many Protestant communities are falling into the same trap.   Regarding Marva Dawn, I would begin with "Reaching Out Without Dumbing Down", then go to "A Royal Waste of Time". That will give you an idea of her approach. She is also a gifted and captivating speaker...if you ever have a chance to hear her, you'll weep with joy as I did.   And Alan, I visited your church's website. Very impressive. It reminds me of my days as an "evangelical catholic", as one of my Lutheran pastors would describe himself :)    
(back) Subject: Re: Subject: Darwinian organists or fossilised organists? From: "Dr. Amy Fleming" <docamy@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:37:48 -0500   I love almost all music. I listened to Scott Joplin this afternoon. The problem with the CCM crowd and those churches (like my mom's) where they dance and wave their hands with emotions, is, when that emotional high cannot be sustained they think they have fallen away from the Lord. It is difficult to get through the valleys of life if you think that God has deserted you because you don't "feel" His presence. They think it was not = a good service if they did not get swept away with emotion (and vice versa). The people that I have talked to who go to contemproary services think = hymns are boring. I wonder if they just sing the words without pondering on = their meaning. Most of the hymns we sing have wonderful verses (or they probably wouldn't have gotten in) that are very comforting and helpful for = meditation on the Word. I have thought about this subject a lot as I have family on both sides of the debate. Thanks for listening. Amy