PipeChat Digest #3852 - Monday, August 4, 2003
 
Re: Where did the ORGANISTS go?
  by "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3847 - 08/03/03
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
RE: Where did the ORGANISTS go?
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: Where did the ORGANISTS go?
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Contemporary 'dis'-service
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
Re: Contemporary 'dis'-service
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: Where did the ORGANISTS go?
  by "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com>
Re: Biltmore Skinner
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
RE: Contemporary 'dis'-service
  by "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com>
Re: Hymns - Editing, Updating, Cannibalizing or ...
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
RE: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?)
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
RE: Hymns - Editing, Updating, Cannibalizing or ...
  by "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com>
Re: where did the organ go
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Traditional Hymns
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Biltmore Skinner
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Clavanova
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Biltmore House - Lock Haven, PA Skinner..
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Where did the ORGANISTS go? From: "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:54:33 -0500   Bob,   I know fully what you mean about getting out of the cage. The truth is, I've been out of the cage for a while. I have a great love for GOOD contemporary music. If I'm not listening to a men and boys choir CD, I'm probably listening to Michael W. Smith. However, as a classical musician, I can recognize good and bad music, regardless of style, and when it comes to the contemporary music, most of it is poorly written with no creativity. Most of that music is written to bring out the emotion in church-goers, to get them to put their hands in the air, sway left and right, and bow to their knees. I think one of the things required of a serious believer in God is the ability to believe regardless of what music is going on, as long as the word is true. I think that if you took music out of both the contemp service and the traditional service, there would be more people left worshipping in the traditional service.       Tyler W. Robertson Organist, Handbell Choir Director,First United Methodist Church, Temple, TX Organist, Baylor University Concert Choir Organist, Accompanist, Baylor University Women's Chorus             From: <rkinner@fuse.net> Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Where did the ORGANISTS go? Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:24:53 -0400   I rarely comment on non-technical matters, but this issue has been close at hand to me for some time now. While nominally a member of a fairly traditional Disciples of Christ chruch - with toaster + pipes organ - I have visited quite a number of churches over the past couple of years to enrich and broaden my own worship experiences. A few thoughts:   With all due respect, is it any surprise that PipeChat - whose members are, by definition, organ enthusiasts - would tend to promote the value of organs and traditional worship? It's like asking a group of smokers how they feel about anti-smoking laws. Any survey taken here would obviously be heavily biased.   Challenge: How many of you have ever looked outside your shell? Our regional pastor has pointed out repeatedly that few church members ever venture outside their own church. I would challenge all of you (who don't already) to visit another church one Sunday each month - with an OPEN mind. I have never been to a service from which I got no spiritual food of some sort. Before accusing others of trying to rattle the traditional cage, ask yourself - maybe I'M the one who's keeping the cage locked. A living faith is always open to growth; only a dead "faith" has its eyes closed and refuses to see new possibilities.   I've seen lots of young people in traditional services (of their own free will) and lots of gray hair - including mine - in contemporary services. I do not accept that age is such an important factor as has been suggested on this list. The meaningfulness of the service to the individual is what matters. But the individual must be open to exploring, and possibly restating, his faith. I am sure my faith would not have grown nearly so much or so strong if I sat in the same service year after year. We all need a jolt once in a while.   OK - the topic of this posting - where did the organists go? Our church has replaced "organists" twice in the past two years and both times wound up hiring pianists who promised they would learn pedal technique. With due respect to the pianists out there, spotting a pianist giving her best at an organ is as easy as spotting a cornstalk growing in a soybean field (Ohio image). Organ technique varies from piano technique in many ways beyond shoving pedals down. Sadly, Miami University closed its organ program in the mid 80's and the U. of Cincinnati CCM's program is a vestige of what is used to be. If there was more demand for organists, there would be more organists. No demand, no supply.   Positive notes (a double organ pun?): 1) Are you familiar with Robert Weber's "Ancient Modern Worship"? 2) I was glad to read the suggestion that an organ - a real one - could be effectively used as part of a praise band.   Ok - end of sermon. Bring on the rotten tomatoes.   Bob   Where your treasures lie, there will your heart be also. Matthew 6:21   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3847 - 08/03/03 From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:23:23 -0400   Sorry - Lang's "Tuba Tune"   >Subject: Re: What piece are we walking about here? >From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:36:30 EDT > >In a message dated 8/3/2003 8:41:39 AM Central Daylight Time, >walterg@nauticom.net writes: > >> >> >From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> >> > >> >This is a wonderful piece, but I wonder each time I play it through and >> >through and through... >> > >> >Why didn't Lang write and ENDING for this piece? It always sounds as >> >though the "needle was lifted." http://www.nauticom.net  
(back) Subject: RE: Where did the ORGANISTS go? From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:21:18 -0400   > I think that if you took music out of both the contemp service and the traditional service, there would be more people left worshipping in the traditional service.   In the lecture that I distributed last week, Miriam Duncan quoted Alexander Pope:   "Some to the church repair, not for doctrine but the music there."   If this is true, then wouldn't it also be true that bad music, badly chosen, or badly performed would keep people away from church? I am convinced that it does (even though someone missing church might not state it as a reason or even be conscious of the fact) and sometimes remind choirs of their important influence in either attracting people to church or repelling them from it.    
(back) Subject: Re: Where did the ORGANISTS go? From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:53:38 EDT   In a message dated 8/4/2003 12:27:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, rkinner@fuse.net writes:   > Sadly, Miami University closed its organ program in the mid 80's and the U. > of Cincinnati CCM's program is a vestige of what is used to be. If there > was more demand for organists, there would be more organists. No demand, no > supply. >   UC closed because the Department head chased away people with only flat pedal boards and lousy little trackers when the NEW CCM went up.   Strader money was/still there for scholarships et al.   The rest of the organists in the world went somewhere where they are PAID enough as churches want it cheap.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Contemporary 'dis'-service From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:55:18 -0500   Justin, I agree that it's probably a fad....just a longer lasting one. Still, there are those who worship from that kind of music, so I don't have the heart to deny them. Like you, I prefer the traditional music. (I'm 36)   Jeff    
(back) Subject: Re: Contemporary 'dis'-service From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:57:21 -0500   Ron, I couldn't agree more!! You and I are a lot alike. Unfortunately, on our CCM Sundays, there is no traditional service, although we're firing up a Saturday service that may be starting to gain some attendance. (It wasn't working at 11:15am Sundays) That provides an alternative to those who dislike CCM totally and want to still worship that weekend. The only bummer is that we have only around 20 people so far, and that doesn't lend use of the organ. Pastor feels it's too much (I know, softer registration, but he's the boss). So we use the piano.   Regards, jeff    
(back) Subject: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:14:38 -0700   Having graduated from Cincinnati's College-Conservatory of Music in 1971, I have to correct that information.   A list of the organs and their appointments:   Main concert hall - 3m Harrison and Harrison, AGO console Small recital hall - 3m Balcom & Vaughn, AGO console Teaching studio - 3m Casavant, AGO console, since replaced with a 2m Juget tracker, which may INDEED have a flat pedal-board Dance theatre - 2m Casavant tracker, AGO console   Practice organs   Holtkamp Martini, AGO console Felgemaker/Schlicker tracker, AGO console McManis, AGO console Steiner, AGO console Steiner tracker, non-standard pedalboard, but it was just OFF, not flat (grin) Walcker tracker, AGO console, I THINK - a "trade" for the two-manual Aeolian-Skinner out of the old Conservatory of Music concert hall, when space couldn't be found to install it anywhere in the new complex Moller unit organ (1), AGO console Moller unit organ (2), AGO console Baldwin (1), AGO console Baldwim (2), AGO console   Cincinnati's organs were the result in part of the merger of the College of Music and the Conservatory of Music ... the concert halls, teaching studio, and dance theatre organs were new (and later the Juget); the practice organs (except for the Holtkamp, which I THINK was bought new; and one of the Mollers, which was bought used from Oberlin) were what they were YEARS before Wayne Fisher retired and Roberta Gary became head of the organ department. I played the Steiner electric action organ in Parvin Titus' studio in the old Conservatory of Music building.   Get your facts straight, Dale, before you bad-mouth a marvelous organist and master teacher like Roberta Gary.   A knowledge of flat pedal-boards and tracker organs is essential to any professional organist, particularly one who aspires to concertize abroad, where (except for England) ALL the pedal-boards ARE straight AND flat.   Bud Clark, Class of 1971 Huntington Beach CA   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/4/2003 12:27:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rkinner@fuse.net writes: > >> Sadly, Miami University closed its organ program in the mid 80's and >> the U. of Cincinnati CCM's program is a vestige of what is used to >> be. If there was more demand for organists, there would be more >> organists. No demand, no supply. > > > > UC closed because the Department head chased away people with only flat > pedal boards and lousy little trackers when the NEW CCM went up. > > Strader money was/still there for scholarships et al. > > The rest of the organists in the world went somewhere where they are > PAID enough as churches want it cheap. > > dale in Florida        
(back) Subject: RE: Where did the ORGANISTS go? From: "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:14:26 -0500   <<<If this is true, then wouldn't it also be true that bad music, badly chosen, or badly performed would keep people away from church? I am convinced that it does (even though someone missing church might not state it as a reason or even be conscious of the fact) and sometimes remind choirs of their important influence in either attracting people to church or repelling them from it.>>>   Absolutely. With the three different music directors we've had in the past two years as well as the current state of the organ, there is an obvious drop in attendance which could easily be explained by the instability of the music dept.         Tyler W. Robertson Organist, Handbell Choir Director,First United Methodist Church, Temple, TX Organist, Baylor University Concert Choir Organist, Accompanist, Baylor University Women's Chorus         From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: RE: Where did the ORGANISTS go? Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:21:18 -0400   > I think that if you took music out of both the contemp service and the traditional service, there would be more people left worshipping in the traditional service.   In the lecture that I distributed last week, Miriam Duncan quoted Alexander Pope:   "Some to the church repair, not for doctrine but the music there."     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963    
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore Skinner From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:18:00 -0500   John farmer told me there was no evidence of an organ ever being behind the facade. I n fact, there was no room for an organ left there in the final construction, and the chambers had to be improvised when he installed the organ. BTW, the facade is beautiful tin, in a quality seldom seen in American organbuilding of the period! Roy Redman   Alan Freed wrote:   > On 8/3/03 8:36 PM, "RMB10@aol.com" <RMB10@aol.com> wrote: > > > Here is the stoplist of the Biltmore House E.M. Skinner > organ opus 248 1916 > Originally installed in the residence of Cornelius Rea > Agnew, Armonk, NY; rebuilt and installed in the Biltmore > House by John Farmer 1999 > > > But then, Monty, are you saying that there was NOT an organ at > Biltmore prior to 1999? I=92m thinking there must have been. But now > gone? So what happened to THAT one (if I=92m assuming correctly)? > > Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Contemporary 'dis'-service From: "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:25:16 -0500   Dear John, Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches (there may be others in the Eastern Traditions, but I know of these two for sure) have always held to the supremacy of the male voice for chant and choral work. That is your tradition, and it would be a terrible shame to change that now.   For those in the Western Rites and Traditions, the organ has become part of our tradition. From depictions of St. Cecilia holding a positiv in her hands to first Church organs in Europe in the 13th century to the wonderful Protestant development of the organ as a tool for worship to the great composers of the 20th Century like Dupre, Durufle, Messiaen, Paul Manz, etc. Not to mention the really great ones: Bach, Pachelbel, Handel, etc.   For those of us who follow the Christian tradition, our worship started as a meal in a restaurant nearly 2000 years ago. I guess we could say that nothing is necessary to worship except "where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name..."   For Western Christians, to lose the organ as a traditional source of worship would be as grave as your church replacing the Cantor and Choir with a CD and a jazz band.   For me, the real question is: are we teaching the children to reach outside of themselves to discover another world of tradition and beauty, or are we attempting to placate their desire to be different from the adults? What happens when they grow up? Will they look back with respect or contempt?   Patrick -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of John Foss Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:53 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Contemporary 'dis'-service   Dear Chatters, So - do we need organs in church? Our churches here in Greece are pretty full Sunday by Sunday for services that are basically the same as they have been for some 800 years. The gregorian chants are sung by a cantor or choir - sometimes amplified, though this is not an improvement. Not an organ in sight. The churches are beautifully decorated inside -and some of the original Byzantine ones exquisitely so. Provision is made for young people in the Church clubs and activities - theatre groups, catechism (attended by virtually all children) games rooms of the old fashioned sort - table tennis, etc., but popular none the less. No dumbing down or pandering to the lowest common denominator. You have to be there to appreciate the depth of feeling - not an instant high but a deep rooted belief. The clergy wear splendid robes and look very much the part - not much humility in the liturgy. These are the leaders of their flock. Outside they sit in the cafe in their black robes and long white beards with everyone else, drinking ouzo and smoking a cigarette. The children kiss their ring, the congregation treat them as equals. So, back to my original question, do we need organs in church? Is not tradition and belief good enough? John Foss www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns - Editing, Updating, Cannibalizing or ... From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:26:36 EDT   Hi Paul:   The idea of angels prostrate comes from an ancient Christian practice of prostration before the Blessed Sacrament upon entering the place of worship. Now we genuflect on one knee if the scarament is not exposed and on two knees if it is. It had nothing to do with Viagra and was a practice long ago. Communion in the hand was outlawed in the year 650 as a measure to guard against sacriligious misuse at the time. Since VAT II it has become common but not legal. The ban has never been officially lifted. It's an abuse of the Sacred. If you really look and study pre Vat. II altars they look like tombs. In the early church they were with the bodies of martyrs and Saints within. To maintain this tradition relics were implanted into a stone upon which the priest's chalace would stand for the Mass. Now you have a simple table, a supper, instead of a mystical sacrifice.   Sounds like a downgrading to me.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: RE: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?) From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:33:47 -0500   Paul, God does work in mysterious ways, and I think He makes lemonade from lemons quite often. I'm sure your friend will be much happier...I know I would be.   Thanks for sharing this story! Jeff    
(back) Subject: RE: Hymns - Editing, Updating, Cannibalizing or ... From: "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:45:01 -0500   Actually, the Pre VCII altars (and, officially, they still are) were meant = to be altars of sacrifice connecting us with the Jerusalem Temple and the = sacrifices of Abraham & Melchizadek, not tombs of martyrs. Even in the catacombs, = altars were erected to say Mass. Hence, "This is the Lamb of God." who was = sacrificed like the ancient scapegoat and the lamb of the Passover.   The Church has many levels of law, and I've never heard of the rule/law = you mention in 650. Where is it? What was its intention? It may have been a = local guideline that became a "tradition" (with a small "t" as opposed to = "Tradition" that has the force of law).   You are right about the altar stone, though. That is why the priest = kisses the altar at the start of Mass. But there is hope - since youth always want = to distinguish themselves from their elders, many have taken to more = traditional ways to spite their parents!   Patrick   -----Original Message-----     Hi Paul:   The idea of angels prostrate comes from an ancient Christian practice of prostration before the Blessed Sacrament upon entering the place of worship. Now we genuflect on one knee if the scarament is not exposed and on two knees if it is. It had nothing to do with Viagra and was a practice long ago. Communion in the hand was outlawed in the year 650 as a measure to guard against sacriligious misuse at the time. Since VAT II it has become common but not legal. The ban has never been officially lifted. It's an abuse of the Sacred. If you really look and study pre Vat. II altars they look like tombs. In the early church they were with the bodies of martyrs and Saints within. To maintain this tradition relics were implanted into a stone upon which the priest's chalace would stand for the Mass. Now you have a simple table, a supper, instead of a mystical sacrifice.   Sounds like a downgrading to me.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Re: where did the organ go From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:06:05 -0400   On 8/3/03 10:46 PM, "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> wrote:   > Alan or others... > I do an eclectic mix of music because I believe in it, plus it follows > the theology of Vatican II.   I am particularly attracted to what you've written. On another church music list it was I who introduced (a couple years back) the adjective "eclectic" for our music, and for what I think is the (or at least "an") ideal in church music today. Total acceptance of the term is not here yet, but a lot of people have said they far prefer it over "blended" (which they usually use, but which means little to me).   > (And I'm not a "cradle Catholic".)   Some years ago I asked whether that means "a catholic from the cradle," or "still an infant in my catholicism." But now I've forgotten which it is. Can you clarify in a couple words?   > Also, I wanted to demonstrate an organ's versatility to parishioners who > thought the organ only belongs to the pre-Vatican II days. The parish has > about about 3000 households, is basically caucasian, and in a upscale suburb > of Chicago. > > My predecessor had taught in the parish school, and eventually ended up > directing the music used in weekend worship. She did some good things, but > obviously had limited knowledge of the history of church music and the > possibilities. My being hired happened with the current pastor, who admitted > he was worried about my "high church" (read trained) background. However, his > favorite music is the Baroque period!! He also believes the parish should not > be divided by the various liturgical/musical camps so often found in Roman > parishes. Unfortunately, many Protestant communities are falling into the same > trap.   I'm hearing you good, and you're certainly RIGHT. Only legitimate grounds for fragmenting a parish (or a diocese) is LANGUAGE. > > Regarding Marva Dawn, I would begin with "Reaching Out Without Dumbing Down", > then go to "A Royal Waste of Time". That will give you an idea of her > approach. She is also a gifted and captivating speaker...if you ever have a > chance to hear her, you'll weep with joy as I did.   I'm going to read those two first, in that order. And appreciate the recommendation. > > And Alan, I visited your church's website. Very impressive. It reminds me of > my days as an "evangelical catholic", as one of my Lutheran pastors would > describe himself :)   Thank you! The phrase "evangelical catholic" gained a good bit of currency (among Lutherans, anyway) about 25-30 years ago. It IS the best two-word summary of what Lutherans are. Nowadays a WHOLE LOT of parish websites make a point of using the phrase in their introductory paragraph. It's gotten to be code language for "We're gospel-oriented, theologically conservative, and musically/liturgically high."   I can remember in about 1958 or 1959, with a Lutheran merger in the offing, some [including myself] campaigned for The Evangelical Catholic Church as the name for the merged body. I might not cheer for it today, because we are not THE evangelical catholic church. I'd like to think that the phrase fits the Roman Church as well.   You keep writing.   Alan     >    
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Hymns From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:11:06 -0500   I mostly agree with what David wrote, except for when he wrote     > The language of old hymns was not the common vernacular of the times, it was > written as beautiful, polished prose.   He got it exactly right when he wrote   > People on the street did not speak that way, any more than they do today. I > think of it as poetry   I submit that one can take a certain consolation that if one looks at secular poetry on the whole then and now, and compares it with the poems written for use as hymns then and now, one will find that the segment that is todays hymns compares much more favorably with the poetry of former times than that which is todays secular poetry compares with the efforts of similar eras.   ns    
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore Skinner From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:13:44 -0400   On 8/4/03 10:51 AM, "RonSeverin@aol.com" <RonSeverin@aol.com> wrote:   > There was never a previous organ in the Biltmore. The facade was > to contain one but never built. It was merely an ornament until > the rebuilt E.M. Skinner arrived in 1999 or 8.   Thanks, Ron. I think I=3DB9ve got my head straightened out on this at = last. (Atypical story, though.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Clavanova From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:15:11 -0500   We have a Clavinova, but I have mixed feelings about it.   Its "piano settings" in general have a better bass than a spinet piano.......i.e., they are not a bad "imitation" of a grand piano.   And some of the orchestral voices are fairly realistic--flutes, strings, esp.   But the "organ" voices are absolutely awful--thick, muddy, and yukky. Where they got those sounds, I don't know. Most of 'em sound like a 1955 Baldwin in a bad acoustic.   I would avoid it absolutely if people think it will give them an organ.   Dennis Steckley & A Six-Pack of Cats    
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore House - Lock Haven, PA Skinner.. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:18:15 -0400   On 8/4/03 11:05 AM, "quilisma@socal.rr.com" <quilisma@socal.rr.com> wrote:   > No, someone inquired about opus 445, located in their CHURCH in Locke > Haven, because it has the identical stoplist. Opus 248 is the only organ > that has ever been installed at Biltmore.   Thanks, Bud. I'm surprised, though. Of ALL the private homes of (say) the 20s and 30s that ought to have had an organ, I'd surely think that THAT one would have had one.   Alan