PipeChat Digest #3854 - Tuesday, August 5, 2003
 
RE: Youth and leading the services
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: flat pedalboards
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: floundering Cincinnati
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blainericketts@comcast.net>
Re: flat pedalboards
  by "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net>
RE: Advice, please
  by "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?)
  by "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
RE: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music
  by "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Youth and leading the services From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 00:04:19 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Reminds me: Three years ago I attended an ecumenical liturgy workshop. We were catholics, lutherans and presbyterians. Most attendees were between 15 and 22 years old who complained about the "routinary worship liturgy". The final task of the workshop was: Try to break the old routine designing a new worship liturgy. What came out after a long, long brainstorming session was following:   *Introitus (because we have to begin in some way with somewhat, no?) *Forgiving Ritual (because we have to put our internal life into order before we worship- logo, not?) *Bible lectures and godspell (because our whole belief is based on the Holy Word we cannot leave them out) *Leaded Discussion of the lectures *Consecration and Communion Ritual (since this is the most important part we agreed that a sort of preparation was due and included the Lord's Prayer there) *Thanksgiving prayer and closing hymn (because we cannot leave the church in a prosaic manner...) If we tried to leave out or interchange one or more of the rituals the whole became a senseless mishmash; and adding more to the list didn't satisfy or justify itself.   This liturgy was all but 'Something new under the sun' and we all were astounded (and some youths even shocked) with this result. The workshop leader wasn't.   Since the guitar didn't stay in tune (after a close examination it turned out to have gotten a crack) we had to play on the old piano which wasn't in best shape either... the little chapel had no organ. Anyway we had a good time and learned that changing ancient rituals in satisfactory and sensemaking manner is all but easy- to say it mildly.   Cheers Andres ================================ First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Sand Lawn To: PipeChat Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:20 PM Subject: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?)     The youth at my church planned their own service once... it was held on a Sunday evening.... was basically a copy of a camp service they had recently attended. When they were offered the chance to do another service the next month, they declined, but asked to be allowed to read the lessons during a regular Sunday morning worship. One said, the church service they planned did not feel right! That made my day!   On another note, a large church in South Louisiana recently cancelled the Praise Service with all the Contemporary Music. The reason was actually that those attending the Contemporary service were not contributing to the church at all...... the offerings were less than 20% of that collected at the traditional service.   Just a couple of thougts.   Sand      
(back) Subject: Re: flat pedalboards From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:42:06 -0700   Sorry, I was over-generalizing ... I was speaking of the historic organs, or meant to.   Cheers,   Bud   Del Case wrote: > > >>"A knowledge of flat pedal-boards and tracker organs is essential to any >>professional organist, particularly one who aspires to concertize >>abroad, where (except for England) ALL the pedal-boards ARE straight AND >>flat." >> >> > > > By no means is the above true. I have played many organs in Switzerland > Austria, France and Germany that had some type of radiating and concave > pedalboard. > > The German standard pedalboard, which I prefer, is both radiating and > concave, though with differences from the AGO. Primarily, they are not > as radiating. However, when you first see one, it may appear straight > simply because it is less radiating than the AGO pedals. > > Del W. Case > Pacific Union College > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >        
(back) Subject: Re: floundering Cincinnati From: "Blaine Ricketts" <blainericketts@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:49:45 -0700   It seems like the Organists and Colleges have become a little too specialized in the music they play. There was a time when organists played in Theatres, Bars, Radio-TV and were good accompanists on piano. Some still do and they are not the ones looking for work. The San Francisco Conservatory of Music and Eastman taught organists to play both Theatre & Church organs. BR   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > But neither she nor any other head of an organ department has any > control over what's going on in the CHURCHES, and the general lack of > interest in the organ as a career. > > Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: flat pedalboards From: "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:20:26 -0500   The German standard pedalboard is referred to as the BDO and is easier to play then our own AGO type. Regular street shoes work fine with a BDO.   Gary     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:30 PM Subject: Re: flat pedalboards     > > > > > > > "A knowledge of flat pedal-boards and tracker organs is essential to any > > professional organist, particularly one who aspires to concertize > > abroad, where (except for England) ALL the pedal-boards ARE straight AND > > flat." > > > > > > By no means is the above true. I have played many organs in Switzerland > Austria, France and Germany that had some type of radiating and concave > pedalboard. > > The German standard pedalboard, which I prefer, is both radiating and > concave, though with differences from the AGO. Primarily, they are not > as radiating. However, when you first see one, it may appear straight > simply because it is less radiating than the AGO pedals. > > Del W. Case > Pacific Union College > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Advice, please From: "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 01:23:18 -0400   Alicia,   I would try to taslk him into getting an accoustic piano instead.   Andrew   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Alicia Zeilenga Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:02 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Advice, please     Hello, The pastor at a parish in which I have been substituting has mentioned the possibility of getting a CLAVINOVA so that the church could have a "piano" and an "organ". As both an organist and a pianist I realize that a CLAVINOVA would at best be better than nothing. I know that I have to speak to him about this, but does anyone have any advice? I feel my inexperience and lack of age very acutely. Alicia "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: RE: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?) From: "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 01:29:11 -0400   Paul,   It sounds like that pastors days may be numbered..lol. When she comes back I think that she will be greeted rudely and may not last long.   Andrew   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Emmons, Paul Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:37 AM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ Go?)     Ron Severin writes:   >Churches going from a traditional service to a contemporary one to gain members, or satisfy the youth, will be sadly mistaken. Out of the mouths of babes, after doing one of these, said it didn't feel right. Now there is God talking through our youth.   I have my friend's permission to relate to you the following, promising not to name names.   A week ago was his last Sunday. His increasingly radically modernist rectorina had harrassed him nearly to death for the past year, making absolutely ridiculous criticisms and demands, musical and otherwise, such as that he shouldn't adjust the music on the music rack during the service (the console is directly behind the pulpit and she claims that any movement behind her is distracting to the congregation). When she wrote a rather scathing "job performance review" on him in May, after four or five years at that church during which time he built a splendid program, he decided that it was time to leave. The last straw was when she decided that there should be a very festive service on the patronal festival at the end of June, and she demanded of him that he produce a full choir for this service, even though like 95% of the choirs in the country they are on vacation from the beginning of June. This was also her last Sunday before taking a continuing education/vacation in England.   My friend decided that he *would* show her he could do it by producing a full choir at the end of June as she demanded. He saw her off, and the next day he wrote his letter of resignation, with one month's notice. This has horrified many people in the parish, including wardens and vestry, who tried to get him to change his mind, but his decision is final. He will be starting at another church a few miles away. The outrage and dissatisfaction have been brewing in her absence.   During the summer the hymns are chosen from requests by parishioners, but she has a particular aversion to "Onward Christian soldiers", and has forbidden it to be selected no matter how many people request it, and no matter whether she is there or not. At the end of his last service, just before the final hymn, my friend walked down to the front of the nave and announced that he would like to change the final hymn from what was printed in the bulletin. He explained that he had been constrained not to choose this hymn despite many requests, but for his final hymn with them he was going to "honor your request." Then he gave the number for Onward, Christian Soldiers, played it, and they "sang the roof off." Then they adjourned to a lavish farewell party thrown for him in the church basement.   Several families have already followed him to his new parish-- notably those with choristers. I suspect there will be more. Now, my friend is musically an ultra-traditionalist. He is already (at the church to which he is moving) directing not just one but two men and boys' choirs-- one for Sunday mornings, and another more independent of the parish organization, but using the church's facilities, for evensongs there and at other churches. It is a strenuous program with many special services to cover. He expects the latter group to have thirty boys this fall.   His experience is living proof and demonstration of what Ron says above. Introduce them to good music in this way and the youth will become among its most fervent advocates.                 > -----Original Message----- > From: RonSeverin@aol.com [SMTP:RonSeverin@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:19 AM > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: Re: Youth and leading the services (was Where Did the Organ > Go?) > > Hi Scott: > > I haven't been saving the results, but I will foreward a prediction. > Churches going from a traditional service to a contemporary one > to gain members, or satisfy the youth, will be sadly mistaken. Out > of the mouths of babes, after doing one of these, said it didn't feel > right. Now there is God talking through our youth. They are not > skulls full of mush, but some of our older more influential, members > and clergy are. They are the ones looking for novelty. If they seek > novelty, they are not mature Christians, but seed scattered on > rocky ground or on the path to be trampled under foot. These > haven't one wit of an idea of why they attend church services > except to be entertained. This shallowness gives it all away as to > motive. There's no great furvor there, but lukewarm. No real life to it > at all. No conviction what so ever. Jesus predicted this, and said > "Let the Dead bury Their Dead." "if they are only lukewarm I will > spew them out of my mouth" refering to warm water instead of > cool refreshing water. He further said I'd prefer they be hot or cold, > not lukewarm. Powerful words not to be forgotten or missed. > > Ron Severin "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: RE: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music From: "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 01:38:08 -0400   Bud,   Did you study with Roberta Gary or Wayne Fischer?   Andrew     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of quilisma@socal.rr.com Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:15 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music     Having graduated from Cincinnati's College-Conservatory of Music in 1971, I have to correct that information.   A list of the organs and their appointments:   Main concert hall - 3m Harrison and Harrison, AGO console Small recital hall - 3m Balcom & Vaughn, AGO console Teaching studio - 3m Casavant, AGO console, since replaced with a 2m Juget tracker, which may INDEED have a flat pedal-board Dance theatre - 2m Casavant tracker, AGO console   Practice organs   Holtkamp Martini, AGO console Felgemaker/Schlicker tracker, AGO console McManis, AGO console Steiner, AGO console Steiner tracker, non-standard pedalboard, but it was just OFF, not flat (grin) Walcker tracker, AGO console, I THINK - a "trade" for the two-manual Aeolian-Skinner out of the old Conservatory of Music concert hall, when space couldn't be found to install it anywhere in the new complex Moller unit organ (1), AGO console Moller unit organ (2), AGO console Baldwin (1), AGO console Baldwim (2), AGO console   Cincinnati's organs were the result in part of the merger of the College of Music and the Conservatory of Music ... the concert halls, teaching studio, and dance theatre organs were new (and later the Juget); the practice organs (except for the Holtkamp, which I THINK was bought new; and one of the Mollers, which was bought used from Oberlin) were what they were YEARS before Wayne Fisher retired and Roberta Gary became head of the organ department. I played the Steiner electric action organ in Parvin Titus' studio in the old Conservatory of Music building.   Get your facts straight, Dale, before you bad-mouth a marvelous organist and master teacher like Roberta Gary.   A knowledge of flat pedal-boards and tracker organs is essential to any professional organist, particularly one who aspires to concertize abroad, where (except for England) ALL the pedal-boards ARE straight AND flat.   Bud Clark, Class of 1971 Huntington Beach CA   Keys4bach@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/4/2003 12:27:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rkinner@fuse.net writes: > >> Sadly, Miami University closed its organ program in the mid 80's and >> the U. of Cincinnati CCM's program is a vestige of what is used to >> be. If there was more demand for organists, there would be more >> organists. No demand, no supply. > > > > UC closed because the Department head chased away people with only flat > pedal boards and lousy little trackers when the NEW CCM went up. > > Strader money was/still there for scholarships et al. > > The rest of the organists in the world went somewhere where they are > PAID enough as churches want it cheap. > > dale in Florida       "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 23:10:58 -0700   Roberta Gary. Fisher despised me; the feeling was mutual (grin).   Bud   andrew meagher wrote: > Bud, > > Did you study with Roberta Gary or Wayne Fischer? > > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > quilisma@socal.rr.com > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:15 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Cincinnati College-Conservatory of Music > > > Having graduated from Cincinnati's College-Conservatory of Music in > 1971, I have to correct that information. > > A list of the organs and their appointments: > > Main concert hall - 3m Harrison and Harrison, AGO console > Small recital hall - 3m Balcom & Vaughn, AGO console > Teaching studio - 3m Casavant, AGO console, since replaced with a 2m > Juget tracker, which may INDEED have a flat pedal-board > Dance theatre - 2m Casavant tracker, AGO console > > Practice organs > > Holtkamp Martini, AGO console > Felgemaker/Schlicker tracker, AGO console > McManis, AGO console > Steiner, AGO console > Steiner tracker, non-standard pedalboard, but it was just OFF, not flat > (grin) > Walcker tracker, AGO console, I THINK - a "trade" for the two-manual > Aeolian-Skinner out of the old Conservatory of Music concert hall, when > space couldn't be found to install it anywhere in the new complex > Moller unit organ (1), AGO console > Moller unit organ (2), AGO console > Baldwin (1), AGO console > Baldwim (2), AGO console > > Cincinnati's organs were the result in part of the merger of the College > of Music and the Conservatory of Music ... the concert halls, teaching > studio, and dance theatre organs were new (and later the Juget); the > practice organs (except for the Holtkamp, which I THINK was bought new; > and one of the Mollers, which was bought used from Oberlin) were what > they were YEARS before Wayne Fisher retired and Roberta Gary became head > of the organ department. I played the Steiner electric action organ in > Parvin Titus' studio in the old Conservatory of Music building. > > Get your facts straight, Dale, before you bad-mouth a marvelous organist > and master teacher like Roberta Gary. > > A knowledge of flat pedal-boards and tracker organs is essential to any > professional organist, particularly one who aspires to concertize > abroad, where (except for England) ALL the pedal-boards ARE straight AND > flat. > > Bud Clark, Class of 1971 > Huntington Beach CA > > Keys4bach@aol.com wrote: > >>In a message dated 8/4/2003 12:27:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>rkinner@fuse.net writes: >> >> >>>Sadly, Miami University closed its organ program in the mid 80's and >>>the U. of Cincinnati CCM's program is a vestige of what is used to >>>be. If there was more demand for organists, there would be more >>>organists. No demand, no supply. >> >> >> >>UC closed because the Department head chased away people with only flat >>pedal boards and lousy little trackers when the NEW CCM went up. >> >>Strader money was/still there for scholarships et al. >> >>The rest of the organists in the world went somewhere where they are >>PAID enough as churches want it cheap. >> >>dale in Florida > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >