PipeChat Digest #3890 - Wednesday, August 20, 2003
 
RE: old sharp tunings
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: old  tunings
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: old  tunings
  by "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Kilgen organ
  by <BEK4450@aol.com>
RE: Kilgen organ
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net>
Re: Kilgen organ
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Bavokerk tuning
  by "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net>
Karg Elert
  by "Paul" <pianoman1@ntlworld.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: old sharp tunings From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:24:41 +0800   On the subject of high pitched instruments was this so uncommon? I remember back pre WW2 something about the high Concert pitch which had been the British standard where A was quite a bit above 440Hz. It is a long time ago but I think it could have been A=3D452. When A=3D440 became the standard here in this country I remember an orchestra which I conducted at the time had a good deal of trouble with the A440 piano playing with the older instruments pitched at the old Concert pitch. The Eb saxophone player and the Bb Clarinet player hung a thick bootlace down their instruments to drop the pitch so that they could tune to the modern instruments. I remember reading something about pipe organs being retuned to the new standard and the discussion at the time of the change to the tone of the instruments through this retuning. Bob Elms.   Original Message ---- F >I had the same experience the first time I listened to Biggs' Bach >at Zwolle ... I forget now, but that organ is either a half-step or a >whole step high from A=3D440 ... I think closer to a half-step ... if I >remember correctly it put the Eb Prelude and Fugue into E. >    
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:50:11 -0700   Um, I think it was a mixed bag, Bob ...   As I recall, old ITALIAN organs were low .... A=3D435 or LOWER ...   Was that "Handel organ" that Biggs recorded the Concerti on low or high? I remember Mander's had to re-pitch it temporarily so it could be used with modern orchestral instruments.   I had always assumed that pitch in general had risen gradually over the centuries, but John Speller kindly corrected me on that as regards ORGANS; and I should have know better to begin with, because South German organs had a "Pommer" stop, sometimes in the back of the reversed console itself, for a continuo stop at the lower (?) orchestral pitch.   My disinformation was based on late 19th century organs in and around Cincinnati, and experience with old E.M. SKinners and Austins pitched at A=3D435.   I guess organ-builders did whatever they pleased; various international conferences fixed ORCHESTRAL pitch, first at A=3D435, and then at A=3D440; =   now some orchestras tune even HIGHER for the brilliance ... I wonder if they have organs in their halls? (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud   bobelms wrote: > On the subject of high pitched instruments was this so uncommon? > I remember back pre WW2 something about the high Concert pitch which > had been the British standard where A was quite a bit above 440Hz. > It is a long time ago but I think it could have been A=3D452. When > A=3D440 became the standard here in this country I remember an > orchestra which I conducted at the time had a good deal of trouble > with the A440 piano playing with the older instruments pitched at the > old Concert pitch. The Eb saxophone player and the Bb Clarinet player > hung a thick bootlace down their instruments to drop the pitch so > that they could tune to the modern instruments. I remember reading > something about pipe organs being retuned to the new standard and the > discussion at the time of the change to the tone of the instruments > through this retuning. > Bob Elms. > > Original Message ---- > F > >>I had the same experience the first time I listened to Biggs' Bach >>at Zwolle ... I forget now, but that organ is either a half-step or > > a > >>whole step high from A=3D440 ... I think closer to a half-step ... if > > I > >>remember correctly it put the Eb Prelude and Fugue into E. >> > > >        
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:02:47 -0500   At 05:50 PM 8/19/03 -0700, you wrote: >I guess organ-builders did whatever they pleased; various international >conferences fixed ORCHESTRAL pitch, first at A=3D435, and then at = A=3D440; now >some orchestras tune even HIGHER for the brilliance ... I wonder if they >have organs in their halls? (chuckle). > >Cheers, > >Bud     Some years ago the Chicago Symphony decided to pitch at 444hz. There was a =   Lyon & Healy organ in Orchestra Hall that was repitched accordingly, cutting down many of the pipes down to accomplish this. When they went back to 440hz the organ could not be practically repitched. There were other numerous problems with the instrument and it was replaced by a Moller. Symphony Hall now has a Casavant. Repitching can have disasterous results if there is an pipe organ involved.   Jon      
(back) Subject: Kilgen organ From: <BEK4450@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:38:36 EDT   In the Music Hall in Hartland, MI is a Kilgen organ first installed about 1932. We are updating our history book and would like to know if there = are any records of the Kilgen company? I understand the firm was last in St. = Louis and went out of business after WWII. A similar organ may be at the home of = Henry Ford in Dearborn, Fairlane Manor.   Barbara Krueger Hartland Area Historical Society 4450 Fenton Rd. Hartland, MI 48353 248-887-1283 bek4450@aol.com    
(back) Subject: RE: Kilgen organ From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:00:13 -0500   Barbara,   Kilgen Organs are being handled by St. Louis Pipe Organ company. You may want to contact them to see if they have any information.   Jeff White Holy Trinity,St. Louis -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of BEK4450@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:39 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Kilgen organ     In the Music Hall in Hartland, MI is a Kilgen organ first installed = about 1932. We are updating our history book and would like to know if there = are any records of the Kilgen company? I understand the firm was last in St. Louis and went out of business after WWII. A similar organ may be at the home of Henry Ford in Dearborn, Fairlane Manor.   Barbara Krueger Hartland Area Historical Society 4450 Fenton Rd. Hartland, MI 48353 248-887-1283 bek4450@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Kilgen organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:20:00 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: <BEK4450@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:38 PM Subject: Kilgen organ     > In the Music Hall in Hartland, MI is a Kilgen organ first installed = about > 1932. We are updating our history book and would like to know if there are any > records of the Kilgen company? I understand the firm was last in St. Louis and > went out of business after WWII. A similar organ may be at the home of Henry > Ford in Dearborn, Fairlane Manor.   The firm went bankrupt in 1959. The records of the former Kilgen company are in the possession of the St. Louis Pipe Organ Company, proprietor Alan Nagel, whose father was the last foreman of the old Kilgen firm. Their address is 6128 Madison Avenue, St. Louis, MO 63134 Tel. 314-521-0085.   John Speller   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Bavokerk tuning From: "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:39:25 -0500   A minor third sharp would be A=3D523.       I thought I had the turntable on the wrong speed, but later discovered = that this organ is almost a minor third sharp to A=3D440.      
(back) Subject: Karg Elert From: "Paul" <pianoman1@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:02:09 +0100   Hi,   I heard recently a lovely few pieces of music by Karg Elert. Apparently = the music was from 14 preludes (???) for organ. I know this isn't a lot = of information, but can anyone suggest what these pieces might be? Does = that ring a bell with anyone? The music was beautiful.   Paul.