PipeChat Digest #3891 - Wednesday, August 20, 2003
 
Re: Karg Elert
  by "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com>
Rieger-Kloss in Roselle, Ill.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Pipe organ repair and maintanence
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Stuart Forster - Methuen -  8-13-03
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: old  tunings
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
Re: old  tunings
  by "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au>
(no subject)
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: old  tunings
  by "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk>
Re: old  tunings
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
RE: Music I never heard before
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: Karg Elert
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
my music download list (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Karg Elert
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Quotations
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Quotations
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: Kilgen organ
  by <BEK4450@aol.com>
Re: Pipe organ repair and maintanence
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Organs at high pitch
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organ Work in Virginia
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
RE: Moravian Home Church Organ and our Rieger-Kloss
  by <Icedad@aol.com>
RE: Karg Elert
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Karg Elert
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Organs at high pitch
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: old  tunings
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Karg Elert From: "Robert Lind" <lindr@core.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:49:17 -0500   On quickly checking Karg-Elert's organ works in John Henderson's = Directory, I didn't find 14 preludes. He did write 17 interludes for a = mammoth anthology of 590 interludes in The Practical Organist (Peters), = and 14 of these were evidently reissued separately. That's the only "14" = I could find in a quick look. But, of course, there could be a = collection of his pieces that is called "Fourteen Preludes ..." that is = virtually unknown at this point.   While we're on this subject, I'd like to ask the list what Karg-Elert = works are truly worth playing for church and, more importantly for me, = recital. I play and continue to learn a lot of organ music but tend to = give up on high-profile, overly-prolific, hyper-chromatic, = way-too-difficult composers such as K-E and Reger. What are K-E's = sonatas like? How about the works that have fugues in them? I see that = there is an unpublished Symphony in E from 1927.   I'm interested in things that are not difficult with a capital D, whose = harmonic rhythm doesn't veer in a new direction every 32nd note, and = that don't require a huge symphonic instrument on which one is pushing = pistons and changing manuals every measure or so. I'm slightly = overstating the case here, :-) but those familiar with this kind of = literature will know what I mean.   Thanks, Bob Lind =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul=20 Subject: Karg Elert     Hi, =20 I heard recently a lovely few pieces of music by Karg Elert. = Apparently the music was from 14 preludes (???) for organ. I know this = isn't a lot of information, but can anyone suggest what these pieces = might be? Does that ring a bell with anyone? The music was beautiful. =20 Paul.    
(back) Subject: Rieger-Kloss in Roselle, Ill. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:33:39 -0400   Who was asking about it yesterday?   I've just got a ton of information on it, and would be happy to send it as attachments.   I'll be out until mid-afternoon.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organ repair and maintanence From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:56:34 -0400   On 8/17/03 5:42 PM, "rkinner@fuse.net" <rkinner@fuse.net> wrote:   > I believe Boody & Taylor is located somewhere in Va., aren't they? = Builders > of fine tracker action instruments.   Staunton. If you look them up, use "Taylor & Boody."   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Stuart Forster - Methuen - 8-13-03 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:07:24 -0400   On 8/18/03 2:30 AM, "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> wrote:   > It was a worthy addition to a long line of presentations of great Organ = music > in this very special place. Long may it prosper!   Malcolm: Thanks a whole bunch. Really enjoyed that review.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:14:00 +0800   Well, Bud, I think it would be almost certain that an organ from Handel's England would have been high pitch - well above A=3D440. High British pitch was the standard here in this country when I first started in music. I can't remember what the actual frequency at A was - maybe as high as 452. If I was not so lazy I would research that but, ...yawn...I feel like a lie down!!! I know that the old reed organs (American organs we called them) were very low in pitch, and that some European countries used a low pitch also (A=3D415??) Cheers, Bob.   ---- Original Message ---- From: quilisma@socal.rr.com To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: old tunings Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:50:11 -0700   >Um, I think it was a mixed bag, Bob ... > >As I recall, old ITALIAN organs were low .... A=3D435 or LOWER ... > >Was that "Handel organ" that Biggs recorded the Concerti on low or >high? >I remember Mander's had to re-pitch it temporarily so it could be >used >with modern orchestral instruments. > >    
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:18:48 +0800   Not only organs, Jon. I play an oboe, and if the conductor attempts to tune any higher than A=3D440 I am in real trouble. A clarinet can have a special short tuning barrel but not an oboe. The player would have to fiddle with the reed to pitch higher and if that is overdone the relationship between the notes can change so that one register or another will play out of tune. Strings have it easy!! Bob. ---- Original Message ---- F > >Some years ago the Chicago Symphony decided to pitch at 444hz. There >was a Lyon & Healy organ in Orchestra Hall that was repitched accordingly, cutting down many of the pipes down to accomplish this. When they went back to 440hz the organ could not be practically repitched. There were other numerous problems with the instrument and it was replaced by a Moller. Symphony Hall now has a Casavant. Repitching can have disasterous results if there is an pipe organ involved. >Jon > > >"    
(back) Subject: From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:24:32 -0500   "I guess organ-builders did whatever they pleased; various international   conferences fixed ORCHESTRAL pitch, first at A=3D435, and then at A=3D440; =   now some orchestras tune even HIGHER for the brilliance ... I wonder if they have organs in their halls? (chuckle)."   With some of the deadly dull dirges that symphonies play so droningly, they could pitch at A=3D550, and it would still have the audience snoring!!! ;>) Of course, every dog in town might start howling!   Dennis Steckley        
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: "Bruce Miles" <bruce@gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:22:07 +0100   Our 1859 Francis Booth organ (my website - St. John's page) is spot on = A=3D 440. (and it stays in tune - not for months but for years at a time). = There is no evidence that it has ever been re-pitched. Is it possible that it = was built to A=3D440 - we think it may have been a demo or exhibition organ = since there is no record of it having been sold until 19 years after it was = built.   Bruce Miles   website - http://www.gbmuk.fsnet.co.uk/index.html   ----- Original Message ----- From: "jch" <opus1100@catoe.org> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 2:02 AM Subject: Re: old tunings     > At 05:50 PM 8/19/03 -0700, you wrote: > >I guess organ-builders did whatever they pleased; various international > >conferences fixed ORCHESTRAL pitch, first at A=3D435, and then at = A=3D440; now > >some orchestras tune even HIGHER for the brilliance ... I wonder if = they > >have organs in their halls? (chuckle). > > > >Cheers, > > > >Bud > > > Some years ago the Chicago Symphony decided to pitch at 444hz. There was = a > Lyon & Healy organ in Orchestra Hall that was repitched accordingly, > cutting down many of the pipes down to accomplish this. When they went > back to 440hz the organ could not be practically repitched. There were > other numerous problems with the instrument and it was replaced by a > Moller. Symphony Hall now has a Casavant. Repitching can have = disasterous > results if there is an pipe organ involved. > > Jon > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >    
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:50:50 -0500   OK, but do you know that even if orchestras tune at a 440, they frequently end up playing quite a bit higher. The Fisk people wisely checked this with the Dallas Symphony, and found that they typically end up about 443.5, I believe it was. The organ was then tuned at that pitch, but an a 440 pitchpipe was placed inside the organ with a tuning pushbutton, which is pushed to give the orchestra a pitch. The organ then sounds much better in tune with the orchestra. Very clever!! Roy Redman   bobelms wrote:   > Not only organs, Jon. I play an oboe, and if the conductor attempts > to tune any higher than A=3D440 I am in real trouble. A clarinet can > have a special short tuning barrel but not an oboe. The player would > have to fiddle with the reed to pitch higher and if that is overdone > the relationship between the notes can change so that one register or > another will play out of tune. > Strings have it easy!! > Bob. > ---- Original Message ---- > F > > > >Some years ago the Chicago Symphony decided to pitch at 444hz. There > >was a Lyon & Healy organ in Orchestra Hall that was repitched > accordingly, cutting down many of the pipes down to accomplish this. > When they went back to 440hz the organ could not be practically > repitched. There were other numerous problems with the instrument and > it was replaced by a Moller. Symphony Hall now has a Casavant. > Repitching can have disasterous results if there is an pipe organ > involved. > >Jon > > > > > >" > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: RE: Music I never heard before From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:02:08 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Wow, what a program- thanks for sharing this terrific experience with us!   > On this disc, he plays two Saetas (Sonatas?) no's 2 > and 4, by Eduardo Garcia Torres (1872-1939), which are > really rather good; hovering between late romantic and > modernity. Torres was, apparently, the organist of > Seville Cathedral, and the music is very, very > interesting.   Indeed Torres' organ works are very interesting to hear and play. Regretfully I do not have but a little organ collection with 'easier works for the church organist' from him. The saetas are not in the collection...   Late romantic to modern spanish composers included many spanish folk tunes (or at least folk tune elements) in their works. This could be the case with the two organ works on the disc. Saetas are folcloric religious andalusian songs chanted without accompaniment during the Good Friday processions in this region of Spain. Interesting to note is that in my parish (which was the church of the afterwar spanish immigrants community) some women still sing saetas on high festivities.   Cheers Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.              
(back) Subject: Re: Karg Elert From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:08:11 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   Poor Karg-Elert, who had the dubious distinction of filling the gap left by Reger at Leipzig, and at a very difficult time with the ever changing musical language of the day.   First though, a technical note. There is indeed a "fourteen" Chorale Improvisations Op.65...so there!   I have mixed feelings about Karg-Elert, who remains popular in the UK and the USA....EVERYONE plays "Nun Danket" after all.   I also adore some of his reflective chorale based preludes, but the bigger works....oh dear!   I once purchased, to my regret, a BIG work based on BACH, and after rambling through it, cast it aside and never picked it up again. (Anyone want to buy it? Let's have a group auction!)   I suppose he is the German version of Herbert Howells, "Which modulation should we use next?" The only difference being that Karg Elert was probably in control of where he was going, whereas Herbert Howells was almost certainly not!   I once said (I have dined out on this one!) that "Herbert Howells is the polite anglican response to the atheistic harmonic ramblings of Frederik Delius".   I guess Karg Elert is the detailed and academic German response to the same.   But lest I be too hard on the poor man, he did leave us one utterly magical organ work, the every lovely "Harmonies du Soir".   I have the distinction of once falling asleep during a performance of his "Lake Constance" epic, and the organist has never forgiven me.   Lastly, any criticism of Max Reger (second only to God and Bach) is tantamount to impertinence....hyperactive indeed! Everyone knows that he was only manic-depressive and utterly barking mad!   Actually, the rewards of a great deal of Reger's music are enormous if one cares to put in the effort, but I would concede that even the simplest of the big works such as Op.59 "Hallelujah! Gott zu loben" is really quite an undertaking. Once we get to the big BACH Fantasy, we are in terrifying musical white-water, but what a fantastic organ work it is for the few who don't drown on the way. The last time I looked at it, my drowning point had reached page 23! I am leaving the rest of it until I retire and have TIME.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK                       > > While we're on this subject, I'd like to ask the > list what Karg-Elert works are truly worth playing > for church and, more importantly for me, recital.   > I play and continue to learn a lot of organ music but > tend to give up on high-profile, overly-prolific, > hyper-chromatic, way-too-difficult composers such as > K-E and Reger   > I'm interested in things that are not difficult with > a capital D, whose harmonic rhythm doesn't veer in a > new direction every 32nd note, and that don't > require a huge symphonic instrument on which one is > pushing pistons and changing manuals every measure > or so.   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: my music download list (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:37:43 -0700   I finally got around to clearing some of the non-working addresses. I just sent out "Unto Thee, O Lord" for SATB; if you think you SHOULD be on the list, and DIDN'T get it, please let me know.   As I mentioned, this is a good time to join if you WANT to get on, because I'm starting over again with Advent.   For those who don't have a CLUE what I'm talking about (grin), I send out liturgical choral pieces and SAB anthems, mostly. They're free; I ask for donations every once in awhile; they're STRICTLY voluntary. I'm not a non-profit organization; I just live the REALITY (chuckle).   Please e-mail me PRIVATELY and specify PDFs or Sibelius files. I'm still using Sibelius 1.4, as not everybody has upgraded.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Karg Elert From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:56:54 EDT   Colin, I tend to agree with you about Karg-Elert--although there are quite a few pieces I play with great enthusiasm. As for Herbert Howells, I have to = admit that I am very partial to some of his choral music, especially his Magnificat settings. I also understand that Karg-Elert was an almost embarassingly = inept organist himself, though he persisted in playing concerts and making = recordings. I have heard a few of the recordings he made of his own works, and they tend = to be extremely inaccurate. As for Reger, my brain is far more fond of him = than my ear, although I agree that he is a major master.   Two interesting anecdotes: I believe it was Howells who said something = like "I am British by birth, Irish by extraction, Canadian by immigration and = Scotch by infusion". I believe it was Max Reger who responded thusly to a harsh review by = Viennese critic E. Hanslick: "Sir, I am sitting in the smallest room in my house = with your review before me. Soon, it will be behind me".   BH      
(back) Subject: Re: Quotations From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:32:04 -0400   At 12:56 PM 8/20/03 -0400, it was written:   >Two interesting anecdotes: I believe it was Howells who said something >like "I am British by birth, Irish by extraction, Canadian by immigration =   >and Scotch by infusion". >I believe it was Max Reger who responded thusly to a harsh review by >Viennese critic E. Hanslick: "Sir, I am sitting in the smallest room in = my >house with your review before me. Soon, it will be behind me".   I think that your first anecdote doesn't really have any reference to Herbert Howells, but was said either by or of Healey Willan.   " Healey Willan, composer, teacher, organist and choirmaster, was born at Balham, London, England on 12 October 1880. He was educated at St. Saviour's Choir School, Eastbourne. In 1913 he moved to Canada to become head of theory at the Toronto Conservatory and organist at St. Paul's church. The following year he was appointed lecturer at the University of Toronto. In 1919 he was appointed music director of the Hart House = Theatre, a post he held until 1925. In 1921 he became precentor of St. Mary Magdalene church where he established the high-church music tradition through the use of plainsong and Renaissance music. He stayed at St. Mary Magdalene until his death in Toronto on 16 February 1968. His other posts included: Vice-Principal of the Conservatory, 1920-1936; professor at the University of Toronto, 1936-1950; University organist, 1932-1964".   However, I also think that you are correct with your second reference = being attributed to Max Reger.   Close, but no cigar!   Bob Conway          
(back) Subject: Re: Quotations From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:05:36 EDT   Correct, it was Willan--that's what email can do: blur distinctions! Thanks, BH    
(back) Subject: Re: Kilgen organ From: <BEK4450@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:39:17 EDT   John Speller and Jeff White, Thanks for the information about the Kilgen Organ company!!   Barbara Krueger Hartland Historical Society 4450 Fenton Rd. Hartland, MI 48353 248-887-1283 bek4450@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organ repair and maintanence From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:38:22 EDT   In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:57:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:     > On 8/17/03 5:42 PM, "rkinner@fuse.net" <rkinner@fuse.net> wrote: > > > I believe Boody & Taylor is located somewhere in Va., aren't they? > Builders > > of fine tracker action instruments. > > Staunton. If you look them up, use "Taylor & Boody." > > Alan > >   As I posted before. T&B is NOT (repeat not)in the busienss of tuning/maintenance of any organs they did not build. They have done 2 = rebuild projects since I have lived here in Staunton (17 1/2 years).   Rick in Staunton VA    
(back) Subject: Organs at high pitch From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:42:46 EDT   The conjecturally reconstructed 1743-1746 Zacharias Hildebrandt in the =   Evangelische Stadtkirche St. Wenzel in Naumburg is pitched at A=3D464 at = 15 degrees Celsius, tempered in Neidhardt I (1724). There is an Erben in NYC pitched at A=3D450, although the organ was seriously altered in the early 1970s. Despite the extreme changes to the = wind system and console, the organ is speaking rather beautifully, even with decades = of no maintenance and the recent abandonment of restoration plans due to four changes of Pastor.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ Work in Virginia From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:21:36 -0500   Hello, Eorg-Lers, et al: I know a very consciencious fellow who does organ work. He may be one of the best kept secrets in Virginia. <grins> Daniel K. Smith 1991 Eastside Highway Crimora, VA 24431 Telephone (residence) 540-943-5083 Crimora is in Blue Ridge Mountains, just north of the Klann Organ Supply works.   Dan can do just about anything you want done, but chooses his projects carefully. Why not give him a call? Appreciatively, F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs ..  
(back) Subject: RE: Moravian Home Church Organ and our Rieger-Kloss From: <Icedad@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:42:24 EDT   Hello Friends,   This past weekend my wife and I took our daughter to Salem = College in Winston-Salem, N.C. where she is a student. We attended the Moravian = Church Service at the Moravian Home Church. The music was outstanding. A Mens = Chorus of 50 was absolute choral perfection. There first organ was a Tannenburg from 1772. This was replaced by a 1913 Kimball. The present organ, a 1955 Aeolian-Skinner, 3 manual, about 63 ranks or was heavenly. The organist = was extremely good. I had the chance to spend about 45 minutes on the organ = following the service. WOW!! An organist' dream. The principal 8' and chorus was so balanced and just beautiful. All the stops were a joy to the ear.The = entire organ is very well maintained. Dr. John Mitchener is the Professor of organ for = Salem College. We had Rieger-Kloss custom build and add 10 pipe ranks and a = Trumpet en Chamade to our church organ here in Florida. Our Principal 8' and the chorus has a fabulous sound. The Flute Harmonique and the other flutes have a sweet, beautiful sound. Rieger-Kloss is one of the best kept secrets around. Rieger-Kloss just = completed a 4 manual, 47 rank organ in St. John the Evangelist in Rochester, = Minnesota. The original 16 rank Wicks was incorporated as an antiphonal division. One = of our winter residents brought me a newspaper clipping and a CD of the installation. It is an awesome sounding instrument.   Cheers,   Daniel    
(back) Subject: RE: Karg Elert From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:04:52 -0500   As I have said before, Bob and others, I really like Karg-Elert's "Jesu, meine Freud" (sp?). I'm tired and have trouble spelling in foreign languages when in this condition. I also don't have the op. and no. ready, because I tote my copy around in the car in my bag of organ music in case I ever stop somewhere where there's an organ I want to play. However, it is certainly recital-friendly.   It seems to me that Richard Elliott played a nice Karg-Elert piece on his MoTab Tabernacle CD. I'd have to listen to it again to tell you what it is and if I really liked it. I used to like Nun Danket, but it's gotten a little old hat, and I'm beginning to like only stuff I can't play myself. Am having trouble getting to practice lately.   Cheers,   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: Karg Elert From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:51:53 -0400   On 8/20/03 7:04 PM, "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> wrote:   > I really like Karg-Elert's "Jesu, meine Freud" (sp?). I'm tired and = have > trouble spelling in foreign languages when in this condition.   Well, certainly close enough to recognize. "Freude," I think. But, more important, German is not a foreign language. Any more than English is. Both are foreign to the Malagasy of Madagascar, but they are not, intrinsically "foreign." Dig?   Alan (yeah, it's foreign to me too; but that's my problem, not a problem = of the German language)    
(back) Subject: Re: Organs at high pitch From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:14:27 -0400   On 8/20/03 4:42 PM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote:   > There is an Erben in NYC pitched at A=3D450, although the organ was = seriously > altered in the early 1970s. Despite the extreme changes to the wind = system and > console, the organ is speaking rather beautifully, even with decades of = no > maintenance and the recent abandonment of restoration plans due to four > changes of Pastor.   If (and only if) it's polite to ask: Would that be at Old St. Patrick's = in SOHO? Or has my memory totally wandered off to North Dakota yet again?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: old tunings From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:15:26 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobelms" <bobelms@westnet.com.au> To: <quilisma@socal.rr.com>; <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:14 AM Subject: Re: old tunings     > Well, Bud, I think it would be almost certain that an organ from > Handel's England would have been high pitch - well above A=3D440. High > British pitch was the standard here in this country when I first > started in music. I can't remember what the actual frequency at A was > - maybe as high as 452. If I was not so lazy I would research that > but, ...yawn...I feel like a lie down!!! > I know that the old reed organs (American organs we called them) were > very low in pitch, and that some European countries used a low pitch > also (A=3D415??)   Around 450 was pretty normal in the latter half of the nineteenth century. I remember the 1894 Hill organ at Holy Trinity, Taunton, England being = tuned around there. An 1890's Moller that our firm recently restored was also pitched at about 450. Between about 1900 and 1930 a pitch of A=3D435 was = more normal, and since then A=3D440 has been pretty universal.   John Speller