PipeChat Digest #3908 - Wednesday, August 27, 2003
 
Fw: Value of a 1982 Solid State system?
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: train whistles
  by "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net>
Re: train whistles
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
IRC
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: 16ft Bourdon
  by "Steve Gilson" <sgilson@sympatico.ca>
Re: train whistles
  by "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com>
Re: train whistles
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: 16' bourdon
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: train whistles
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Sydney Town Hall specs--64' in Pedal
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: train whistles
  by "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net>
New Walt Disney Concert Hall Organ Installation
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: Atlantic City - party horns
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re:Sydney's Trombone and Dupre
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: New Walt Disney Concert Hall Organ Installation
  by "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Sedio's Homage =E0 Widor
  by "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net>
Re: London Double Contra Bass Untersatz
  by <Rscottcopeland@aol.com>
Re: Atlantic City 128' Resultant
  by <Rscottcopeland@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Fw: Value of a 1982 Solid State system? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:42:37 -0500   I have no idea what value such a system would have, but I would point out that SSL will update such a system for a new organ for a very moderate charge, so probably it is a pretty marketable commodity. I also know of = no SSL or Peterson systems that have failed in thirty years or more of use (although the odd card does occasionally fail.) The lifetime of such systems has still to be determined.   John Speller   The exact ----- Original Message ----- From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 11:05 PM Subject: Value of a 1982 Solid State system?     > Do you have any idea as to the value of a 1982 Solid State Logic combination > action and driver board system.    
(back) Subject: Re: train whistles From: "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:45:16 -0500   It's sometimes difficult for me to pick out the notes of the chords = created by the horns--or count the notes even. I think that's because = most of them produce such a pure tone--with very little upper harmonics = (the "clues" we use to identify tones). Sorta like bourdons or tibias = sans tremulant.   Hmmm... now that I think of it, I've heard some English trumpets that = come very close to train horns.   Most the train horns I've heard have 3 or 4 notes, and are either a = major 6th or a minor chord. I envision a battle in the train yard = between the ones with the happy-go-lucky 6th chords and the ones with = the oh-so-scary, here I come, minor chords. Or maybe that was just in a = cartoon back when I was growing up.   I love it... my spell checker says that bourdons should be bourbons. It = may have a point.            
(back) Subject: Re: train whistles From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:45:25 -0500   Hello, Alicia, et al: You asked: > Can someone explain why train and organ enthusiasm are > often found together? ;) Heaving, snorting, groaning, panting, snarling, grunting, breathing heavily, ...you name it. They exude a sense of great power under control of one person. F. Richard Burt ..  
(back) Subject: IRC From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:44:55 -0700   I'm on, soon as I find some supper.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: 16ft Bourdon From: "Steve Gilson" <sgilson@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:45:06 -0400   Someone said something about 16 footers sounding more "fundamental". If I remember my theory right, when you stop a pipe, it drops the octave, but = you lose some of the partials...as most bourdons are stopped, they will sound more "fundamental" wouldn't they?...Just my two (Canadian) cents worth (I guess that's about 1.6 cents US, and Colin will have to tell us how many pence and/or Euros that would be!)   As an aside, the only two 16 ft pedal stops I have at church are the same rank. It's a "lovely" idea that C. Franklin Legge had: use one rank of pipes, but with two magnets and pallets for each note and a channel that carried the wind over the pipe when you use the Gedekt. Impossible to tune as there is more wind Pressure on the Bourdon (a little sharp) and less on the Gedekt (a little flat) Drives me nuts! He also positioned the pipes so that the mouths of face each other (CCC opposite CCC# and so on). If you open the gate up to get more volume, the wind from the playing pipe goes into the silent pipe opposite and creates this lovely "whump-whmup" = vibrato effect. Not one of his brighter ideas...but what can you do. It's been = there since 1933 and you can't exactly reposition pedal pipes in an organ = chamber the size of a large closet...   Cheers to all...   Steve Gilson Organist and Choirmaster St. Andrew's Presbyterian St. Lambert, Quebec    
(back) Subject: Re: train whistles From: "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 20:30:28 -0500   Per my husband who has been in railroads for his whole life. Trust me, we have the books to prove it. Tina Hemphill   "Diesel locomotives do not use whistles, they use horns. Horns have diaphragms.   Nathan Airchime is the most popular and common type of locomotive air horn in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. The website = http://moyer.ws/horns/nathan/ provides a complete history of these horns, and the website http://trainiax.0catch.com/meguidenathan.htm will tell you which model of horn plays which chord. I think you'll be surprised by the variety. = These are not inexpensive horns, and they do require maintenance to remain in tune, which is why they sometimes sound like wounded cows.   Other North American manufacturers of air horns were Leslie, Wabco (Westinghouse Air Brake) and Prime, all of which are reported to be out of the market. Quite a few rail enthusiasts are horn collectors, and they have their own organization.   An additional bit of information...the most common airhorn purchased in = the US today is the Nathan K5LA/R24, which plays a Bmaj6 chord. K5 is the = style, L means low profile, A is a modification, and R24 means bells 2 and 4 are reversed."     Mark W. Hemphill Editor-in-chief Trains Magazine Waukesha, Wisc    
(back) Subject: Re: train whistles From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 21:15:32 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: Re: train whistles     > Per my husband who has been in railroads for his whole life. Trust me, = we > have the books to prove it. Tina Hemphill > > "Diesel locomotives do not use whistles, they use horns. Horns have > diaphragms   I believe some diesel locomotives use whistles worked by compressed air. Some, however, use horns. Horns like locomotive whistles were invented by an organbuilder. They are a development of the diaphone, invented by another organbuilder, Robert Hope-Jones.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: 16' bourdon From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:51:52 -0500   It is important to remember a scientific phenomenon known as "resonance." There is a lot to be said on a small organ for a fairly large-scale = Bourdon rather lightly winded. With soft combinations this produces a nice soft Bourdon sound. With a lot of stuff coupled from the manuals, however, the pipe starts to resonate in sympathy with what is coupled to it, and grows considerably in power, becoming something akin to a fairly large-scale Bourdon that is more heavily winded. Now this doesn't happen instantly, = and the effect can best be described as similar to the sort of "bowing" effect you get with a stringed instrument. This does, however, make the = instrument seem very expressive. The organ I grew up with in England, an 1862 organ = by Thomas J. Robson of London ("Organ Builder By Appointment to Her = Majesty"), has a particularly fine example of one of these, and I have always rather enjoyed them.   John Speller, St. Louis, Missouri.    
(back) Subject: Re: train whistles From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 20:37:19 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:12 PM Subject: Re: train whistles     > At 05:03 PM 8/26/2003 -0500, Alicia wrote: > >Can someone explain why train and organ enthusiasm are often found > >together? ;) > > > Why, it must be the whistles, silly.....!   As a matter of interest, historically speaking it was an organbuilder who made the first locomotive whistle. In the earliest days, like stage coaches, engine drivers used posthorns, which they blew themselves. In = 1834 there was an accident on the Leicester & Swannington Railway in England, when a train hauled by a locomotive called "Samson" hit a cart loaded with more than two thousand eggs that was being unloaded at a local inn and was parked across a level crossing. This produced what may have been the world's largest omelette. Anyway, the engine driver had tried to warn the driver of the cart with his posthorn, but it simply didn't make enough noise. After the accident he suggested to Mr. Stephenson (of Stephenson's "Rocket" fame, who had also built "Samson") that the pressure of the steam might be used to make a much louder whistle. Stephenson went round to his local organbuilder in Manchester and had a prototype locomotive whistle made. And the rest is history ...   John speller    
(back) Subject: Re: Sydney Town Hall specs--64' in Pedal From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:55:30 -0500   Does the cat-flap double as a Tremblant Doux in the windline? Question: Incidentally, how many people know who invented the cat flap? Hint: It works by gravity. Answer: Sir Isaac Newton.   John Speller   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Sydney Town Hall specs--64' in Pedal     > Yes, but if your cats go in and out as often as mine, it is surely vibrating at a higher pitch than originally intended. > > Ha! > > -WG > > > > "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote" > > > > Hello, > > > > Not quite true David. > > > > I started to make one but ran out of money and space. > > > > The bottom CCCCCCCCCCCCCCC reed is now a cat-flap in > > my front door. > > > > ;-) > > > > Regards, > > Colin Mitchel UK > > > > --- David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> wrote: > > > > > There are two FULL-Length 64's stops in the world > > > that go all the way > > > down to 64' C - The Contra Trombone in Sydney and > > > the > > > Diaphone/Dulzian in Atlantic City. All of the rest > > > of the 64' stops > > > either are either incomplete in the bottom or are > > > Resultants. @pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >    
(back) Subject: Re: train whistles From: "Bill" <bill.hauser@cox.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:36:13 -0500   It's sometimes difficult for me to pick out the notes of the chords = created by the horns--or count the notes even. I think that's because = most of them produce such a pure tone--with very little upper harmonics = (the "clues" we use to identify tones). Sorta like bourdons or tibias = sans tremulant.   Hmmm... now that I think of it, I've heard some English trumpets that = come very close to train horns.   Most the train horns I've heard have 3 or 4 notes, and are either a = major 6th or a minor chord. I envision a battle in the train yard = between the ones with the happy-go-lucky 6th chords and the ones with = the oh-so-scary, here I come, minor chords. Or maybe that was just in a = cartoon back when I was growing up.   I love it... my spell checker says that bourdons should be bourbons. It = may have a point.                    
(back) Subject: New Walt Disney Concert Hall Organ Installation From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:52:39 EDT   Photos of the installation process (begun May, 2003) of the new Glatter-Gotz/Manuel Rosales tracker instrument for Los Angeles' Walt = Disney Concert Hall are available, virus-free, by clicking on the links, below. (If you've = not seen the "proposed" case of this instrument previously, I think you'll be quite =   surprised!)   The installation photos include the building, inside and out; the terraced =   orchestral stage; the multi-color, acoustical fabric chairs; views from = the bottoms to the tops of several of the largest flues and (the more "sleek") = wooden reed resonators and some of the earthquake stabilizing rods connecting = back sides of facade pipework.   ENJOY!   7 Early Design Model Photos ---- <A = HREF=3D"http://www.gg-organs.com/eng/projects/disney_images_frame.htm">Disn= ey Images</A>   22 Installation photos (work in progress) ---- <A = HREF=3D"http://www.gg-organs.com/eng/projects/disney_images_frame4.htm">Dis= ney Images - Installation</A>   It has been fun to follow this project from its first announcement(s) to = the present. One hopes to see and hear this new organ in about a year (or so) = when installation and tonal finishing are complete.   Dale G. Rider Independence, Missouri    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City - party horns From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 00:02:03 -0400   Well, mes amis, life played one of its little tricks on me tonight. Night = before last, I began reading Ann Labounsky's biography of Langlais for the = first time, and tonight, about 2 hours after writing my brazenly confident = response about 6th chords, I read this on page 163. Quoting Jean = Langlais, circa 1956, after his second American concert tour, during which = he had been told by a Belgian woman that many Americans had lost their = minds, and naively believed her:   "America has yet to learn the benefits of silence. They honk their car = horns, the trains blast their horns midtown, with a powerful sixth chord. = ... It is impossible to hear the sounds of bells or a clock soaring over = the city. ... Return to the most basic lifestyle, Messieurs Americans, = and especially a more poetic one, and perhaps there will be fewer of you = in padded cells."   Well, I still like 6th chords, and I'm proud to be completely nuts. = Voilla!   Shrug, -WG   I had written:   The experience of music is a subjective thing, eh? I've always felt that = 6th chords were EXTRA satisfying! Apparently Langlais did, too, seeing = how he ended up on them so often.   -WG     > Mark Towne wrote:   > The 6th chord will get your attention at crossings et. al. because it = is > not harmonically satisfying. > > Mark S. Towne (railroad enthusiast) > Las Vegas, Nevada > (9 months away from the arrival of our 53-rank von Beckerath at UNLV) > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > Bill > > "...a whole row of high pressure > horns acting like a latter-day carillon." > > I don't know about that, but it got me to thinking about train = whistles > (horns). > I'm wondering why they're mostly tuned to play a 6th chord > (I-III-V-VI)---at least in the States. > I suppose we may never know.    
(back) Subject: Re:Sydney's Trombone and Dupre From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:33:30 +0100 (BST)   Come on Sebastian! There are not that many organs (2?) where you have got a 64' reed, and it's a big work. I'd bet you would use it if there was a legitimate opportunity! Maybe Dupre was just a bit jealous? Actually, as this is a work with orchestra, it does not sound out of place. I once played the Bach "Giant" fugue at Guildford Cathedral using the 32' reed. I asked a friend of mine how it sounded. "Dreadful", he said, so I took his advice and dropped it for the recital. Interestingly enough Michael Dudman was a pupil of Norman Johnson, who, in his turn had studied with Marchal. Mark Quarmby and I also share this distinction. Norman, though now in his eighties, is still to the best of my knowledge and belief alive and in good health. He was Sydney University Organist for some time, and designed the organ in the Chapel of Sydney University. He has a small 2 manual tracker action organ by Sharp in his house. I have never seen it - I have never been to Australia - but he describes it in glowing terms as the perfect practice instrument with a sound which you never tire of. Why not get the CD, though, to be honest, the microphone placing is not very good and the sound somewhat muddy. But it's still worth having, and the Organ Extravaganza record is crystal clear.   Sebastian M Gluck (Tubamagna) said: "It seems a bit odd that Mr. Hill's 64' Trombone should be featured in the Dupre recording. I read that Dupre had actually heard the beast, and felt that it contributed little to the organ musically. He felt that it's value was as an organbuilding curiosity."     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Scrimbleshanks in territorial dispute Playing the piano in public   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: New Walt Disney Concert Hall Organ Installation From: "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:43:25 -0700   On 8/26/03 8:52 PM, ProOrgo53@aol.com said something about:   > The installation photos include the building, inside and out; the = terraced > orchestral stage; the multi-color, acoustical fabric chairs; views from = the > bottoms to the tops of several of the largest flues and (the more = "sleek") > wooden reed resonators   Wow. Unbelievable! I was just hoping I wouldn't see a bunch of mouse = ears...      
(back) Subject: Sedio's Homage =E0 Widor From: "Robert Nickel" <rnickel@charter.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:54:02 -0500   Some have asked for the Mark Sedio piece that is in homage =E0 Widor. The title of the book is Organ Tapestries, Volume 1, by Mark Sedio. It is published by Concordia Publishing House. The actual title of the piece is "Toccata on 'Christ, Whose Glory Fills the Skies.'" (It is based on the hymntune RATISBON.)   Bob Nickel Sturgeon Bay Moravian Church      
(back) Subject: Re: London Double Contra Bass Untersatz From: <Rscottcopeland@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 04:13:09 EDT   In a message dated 25/08/2003 19:12:09 GMT Daylight Time, cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk writes:   > This is getting silly! 4Hz per second? > > > :) > > Colin Mitchell UK   Cheaper to buy a helicopter!!!     Richard Scott-Copeland    
(back) Subject: Re: Atlantic City 128' Resultant From: <Rscottcopeland@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 04:21:42 EDT   In a message dated 26/08/2003 00:03:42 GMT Daylight Time, aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com writes:   > How often would you use such nonsense? Having a 42 2/3' stop would be = about > as useful as having a Trompette-en-Chamade Celeste.   Agreed - we've had a few of these this hot summer!!     Richard Scott-Copeland