PipeChat Digest #3911 - Thursday, August 28, 2003
 
Re: PipeChat Digest #3909 - 08/28/03
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: The Big One
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Re: 16' bourdon
  by "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net>
Re: the problems shirts
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: organist needing updating
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
RE: 16ft Bourdon
  by "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net>
Re: organist needing updating
  by <FastToccata@aol.com>
Re: organist needing updating
  by "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com>
RE:
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
RE: flute A Biberon?
  by "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net>
Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: The Big One/Birdola
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: organist needing updating
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: organist needing updating
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: organist needing updating
  by "Kealypaul" <kealypaul@yahoo.com>
Re: The Big One/Birdola
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: organist needing updating
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: The Big One/Birdola
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3909 - 08/28/03
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3909 - 08/28/03 From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:03:44 +0100 (BST)   I have added some photos of the Volos - Milies narrow gauge steam railway to the Photo section of Organists Off topic. Colin Mitchell has also added 3 photos which he took on his recent Dutch trip of the organ in Monickendam. You can see them at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ We have owned for many years a house in Lyme Regis in Dorset, and when I was about 10 years old, provided I arrived very early in the morning, the engine driver used to let me operate the splendid tank engine which pulled the carriages and wagons back and forth between Axminster and Lyme Regis. It has been closed for many years now, but I have also included a photo of the Viaduct at Uplyme. You might be amused by an article which was originally published in Greek News, which includes information about the above mentioned Volos - Milies railway. THE IRON ROADS OF GREECE Despite the advent of the Inter City expresses I still believe that you do not travel by train in Greece if time matters. I once asked the ticket sales lady in Katerini at what time the 9.15 p.m. usually arrived : her reply : there is no usually on Greek railways. Rumour has it that there are still trains lost in the system which set out for their destination some years ago and have not yet arrived. Yet it is this timelessness which is the charm. Where else could you hear the bleat of a goat outside your carriage window answering the hoot of a local goods train, then see the same goat, with it's mate, both in large bags and obviously not the happiest of passengers, sitting on the floor of the single coach diesel car ? Despite the farmer's claims to having bought a ticket for his goats, the guard came along with a flourish of "Exo! Exo!" and the hapless farmer found himself, complete with goats, back on the platform. It was this same train - a vintage carriage well past its "sell by" date - which would not start on an uphill gradient, and had to be allowed to roll backwards so that it could get a running start at Makrigialos. It is still in occasional service when the more recent rolling stock, which has already seen lengthy service on the Italian railways, is out of order. One of the great pleasures of travelling by train is the opportunity of meeting interesting people and improving my less than fluent Greek. I usually travel First Class, because the seats are more comfortable. And it is not expensive! I have discussed Agricultural Finance with an agricultural economist in banking, Educational Psychology with the professor of this subject from the University of Saloniki and model railways with an insurance clerk. The main problem is that they are keen to practice their English, while I wish to exercise my Greek. For the true train fanatic - and I admit to being one - there are some interesting by-ways of the system. Volos is unique in being the terminus of three different gauges of railway. Firstly, there is the delightful cross country 1 meter gauge line to Kalambaka / Meteora, then there is an 88 cm line which winds its way some 1,000 feet up Pelion to the lovely old village of Milies during a journey of 27 kms. Part of this line has been restored and steam trains puff along the last 18 kms. from Lehonia to Milies every Saturday and Sunday, leaving at 11 a.m. and returning after a leisurely lunch. There are spectacular views over the bay, and an excellent restaurant in the old station house in Milies at the end of your journey. They restored the disused station there last year to accommodate the revived train service, but I preferred it as it was, derelict, mysterious and inviting. Another line to which I make an annual pilgrimage is the narrow gauge rack and pinion railway from Diakopto to Kalavryta on the northern Peloponnese circuit. The climb, through a dramatic gorge to the home of the revolution, takes about an hour and is well worth going out of your way for. My only regret is that it is not steam operated. The original engines are still around and could surely be restored. And then there is the disused line from Agrinio through Messalonghi to Kria Vrisi - a hamlet of six houses. But that's another story for another time ..... John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Scrimbleshanks in territorial dispute Playing the piano in public   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: The Big One From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:29:05 -0400   I guess he doesn't know Atlantic City has a Woodpecker stop either, = although I think it's in another language...   Hey, I'm an apprentice, what do you expect from me! (C:   = -Nate      
(back) Subject: Re: 16' bourdon From: "Bigaquarium" <Bigaquarium@netzero.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:32:24 -0400     > This is all very interesting, but I wonder if most of the 'resonance > effect' occurs in the listeners brain. One's hearing can and does = 'infer' a > fundamental from its components when there is no fundamental present. = When > some fundamental is present the effect must be to reinforce it.   That's very interesting, sometimes if I hear an organ that is either registered differently or is faint compared to singing or such things, my mind sometimes subconciously "fills in the blanks" like that.   = -Nate   "The apprentice"      
(back) Subject: Re: the problems shirts From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:42:48 EDT   John:   I believe you are correct. And I suppose it twill be ever thus.   Thanks all for the discussion.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:20:15 -0400   I can confirm #1 - that is pretty standard pedagogy, although once you get = ambitious enough to play music with two pedal parts at opposite ends of = the board, you might have to break the rule.   #2 is also standard practice. The idea is that you shouldn't have to look = at your feet to know where you are and where you are going, and there = isn't always time to feel your way around to the next note.   #3 makes about as much sense as not using thumbs for music written before = ____ (fill in whatever year you believe is right). Don't tell my friends = on the harpsichord and clavichord lists, but I use my thumbs for = everything - sometimes I'm all thumbs. There are scales in Bach's pedal = parts, and I see no reason not to use standard scale pedalling in most = cases. I certainly would not begin the P&F in D with toes only.   #4 is just as silly, in my ever-so-humble opinion. I think when you first = start playing pedals, it feels natural to use toes. Most people have to = force themselves to learn to use heels at all, and many never get very = good at it. This "rule" may be a concession to that unfortunate fact. = The teacher should inspire the student to try harder, not to give up. = Anyone else?   -WG     > "david WOODS" <david@galbraith-woods.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > ... > > 1.. Keep your knees together at all times, tying them with a scarf if = you find it hard to remember. > 2.. 'Find' notes by having memorised the angle of your (lower) legs = that makes a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8ve [keeping your knees = together] > 3.. Expect to use only toes in music before 1800. > 4.. Only use heels when legato playing makes impossible demands on = your toes. > > Since I haven't read a "how to do it" book for many years I don't know = whether these instructions have become today's generally-accepted wisdom. = Can somebody who's up-to-date please tell me ? > > Regards > > David Woods (UK)    
(back) Subject: RE: 16ft Bourdon From: "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:20:31 -0700       {As an aside, the only two 16 ft pedal stops I have at church are the same rank. It's a "lovely" idea that C. Franklin Legge had: use one rank of pipes, but with two magnets and pallets for each note and a channel that carried the wind over the pipe when you use the Gedekt.}     The 9 rank Welte that was in my Masonic Temple in South Pasdena, Calif. = also had that arrangement. The chamber was not high enough, so the pipes for = the 16' Bourdon/Gedeckt were mitered over and around each other like creeping vines.   Mark S. Towne Las Vegas, NV    
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: <FastToccata@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:09:18 EDT   If you look at most of the organ study books such as "The Organists' = Manual" by Roger E. Davis, "Method of Organ Playing" by Harold Gleason, Joyce = Jones' organ study book, etc. all of them incorporate using heels at times when appropriate (including Bach works) -- never just toes. One should try = and keep knees together as best as you can, but it isn't always easy if you have = one foot at one end of the pedal and the other foot at the other end. I have = several organ students and it really isn't hard to teach them to use their heels. = They have done very well with it.    
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:02 -0500   ....The posture recommended by my teacher was sitting straight on the = edge of the bench, knees close together...   Men, please tell me the comfort level of "knees close together" while playing....or for that matter "knees close together" at all..   Mike Franch in Madison, WI   _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus    
(back) Subject: RE: From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:46:23 -0500   It's really an additional John-Paul Buzard name plate.   His stop lists are characterized by a Flute a Biberon on the Great, a floating Major Tuba (horizontal), and a pedal 32' Lieblich Gedect (faux, = of course - with a volume control yielding other stop names)   Don't you play a Laukauff-built tracker of his? If so, you may be missing the latter two stops.   It is, in fact close to a rohrflote or chimney flute. I believe he was attracted to the name because of some association with drunken sailors. Walter Bradford could give you more details as could John-Paul himself.     Michael - in chilly Evanston     > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: flute A Biberon? >From: "Fran Walker" <fwalker@northwestern.edu> >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:00:16 -0500 > >Does anyone know what the stop "Flute A Biberon" is? 8 foot. What kind >of metal/wood, why it would be named that. >Thanks! > >Fran Walker >Organist, North Shore United Methodist Church >Glencoe, IL >      
(back) Subject: RE: flute A Biberon? From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:49:19 -0500   It's really an additional John-Paul Buzard name plate.   His stop lists are characterized by a Flute a Biberon on the Great, a floating Major Tuba (horizontal), and a pedal 32' Lieblich Gedect (faux, = of course - with a volume control yielding other stop names)   Don't you play a Laukauff-built tracker of his? If so, you may be missing the latter two stops.   It is, in fact close to a rohrflote or chimney flute. I believe he was attracted to the name because of some association with drunken sailors. Walter Bradford could give you more details as could John-Paul himself.     Michael - in chilly Evanston     > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Subject: flute A Biberon? >From: "Fran Walker" <fwalker@northwestern.edu> >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:00:16 -0500 > >Does anyone know what the stop "Flute A Biberon" is? 8 foot. What kind >of metal/wood, why it would be named that. >Thanks! > >Fran Walker >Organist, North Shore United Methodist Church >Glencoe, IL >      
(back) Subject: Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23 From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:00:35 -0400   On 8/28/03 7:41 AM, "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> wrote:   > OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23 > Bravo and splendido, Malcolm! Read with careful relish.   YOU I can ask: How DOES a Brit pronounce "Marylebone"?   Thank you.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: The Big One/Birdola From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:18:10 -0400   "birdola is a legitimate organ stop, usually two pipes bent into a bowl of oil to imitate a bird's twittering. btw, i noticed the disney organ has one under another name, but it's listed as using a bowl of WATER. wouldn't that have to be refilled constantly??"   I played an almost brand new organ in Bremen, Germany that has a Vogelgesang (birdsong) stop. It's really quite interesting. One end of the pipe sits in distilled water and it makes a gurgling sound. I'm told it's sort of upside down so that it comes from the top rather than the bottom. They keep what looks like a big mason jar over it to avoid the dust from getting into it and drying it out... I don't know about whether or not they have to refill it.   Shelley    
(back) Subject: Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23 From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:23:05 -0400   Thank you, Alan.   What in Britain is pronounced like it looks, I ask you? It's like Mahr-le-bone, accent on the first syllable. One does also hear = Mare-le-bone.   There is a nice Website for the church, where you can find a picture of = the Organ.   http://www.stmarylebone.org.uk/   Cheers,   Malcolm   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23     > On 8/28/03 7:41 AM, "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23 > > > Bravo and splendido, Malcolm! Read with careful relish. > > YOU I can ask: How DOES a Brit pronounce "Marylebone"? > > Thank you. > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:28:19 -0400   Dear Mike, I was told to keep my knees together when I took lessons at Moravian. = I used rubber bands for a short time and then the thought occured to me that they could stick those ideas where the sun does not shine. If it sounds right and I'm capable of playing it, it's ok. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:28 AM Subject: Re: organist needing updating     > ...The posture recommended by my teacher was sitting straight on the = edge > of the bench, knees close together... > > Men, please tell me the comfort level of "knees close together" while > playing....or for that matter "knees close together" at all.. > > Mike Franch > in Madison, WI > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:34:47 -0400   On 8/28/03 11:28 AM, "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> wrote:   > Men, please tell me the comfort level of "knees close together" while > playing....or for that matter "knees close together" at all.. > Fine for castrati, but . . . .   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: "Kealypaul" <kealypaul@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:46:28 -0700 (PDT)   Oh, Alan (Freed), you give a perfect example of the need for occasional common sense and a chuckle on this list. It helps overcome the tedium of theory and physics, without which music would not exist. Now I'll get back to work ...   pk   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: The Big One/Birdola From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:47:19 -0400   On 8/28/03 12:18 PM, "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> wrote:   > I played an almost brand new organ in Bremen, Germany that has a > Vogelgesang (birdsong) stop. It's really quite interesting. One end of > the pipe sits in distilled water and it makes a gurgling sound.   Sounds like the one in Saint Peter's ELCA, Manhattan. Spec and photos at http://www.saintpeters.org/music/index.html   Runs on oil.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:08:02 EDT   In a message dated 8/28/2003 4:15:59 AM Central Daylight Time, david@galbraith-woods.freeserve.co.uk writes: Keep your knees together at all times, tying them with a scarf if you find = it hard to remember. Who on this list could fit a scarf around their legs? lol I think its a bit German to keep your legs together the entire time. = Ouch! However, I completely agree that one should use not use heels on Baroque music. Other books to try are by Nilson, Enright, and Gleason. The = Gleason book contains manual excercises, pedal exercises, and literature which employs techniques learned in the exercises. Good luck with your decision!   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: The Big One/Birdola From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:19:26 EDT   They have a rossignol at Holy Name Catherdral(Flentrop) , Chicago, which = did not work when I was there because it was out of water.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3909 - 08/28/03 From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:25:24 -0400   Dale wrote: <<I asked earlier why on a Somme organs 1 16' is enough but when you have multiple 16' stops you often cannot find just the correct one? Still need an answer if someone has one------>>   I'll probably get boo'd for this but my theory/experience is that more = often than not, when there are multiple 16' stops in a pedal department, they = are mostly extensions of 8' stops, thus they are not really 16' stops and were not properly scaled, voiced and finished for 16' performance.   For instance, the Casavant I play has five 16' stops in the Pedal. The flues are a Subbass 16 which serves well for quiet stops as well as for = full organ. There is also the 16 Quintaden which is duplexed from the Great = and helps out harmonically with the 16 Subbass providing the firmness we lack because there is no 16 Principal in the Pedal. The Rohrflote in the = Swell is extended down to 16' and plays in the Pedal and is approximately the = same dynamic level as the 16 Subbass, but not the same scale. It's pretty = much to quiet for pedal use and would have been better as a manual stop. = The same goes for the 16' Fagot which is duplexed from the Swell to the Pedal. It's inadequate in volume of sound and lacks foundation. The 16' = Posaune is perfectly adequate and would be fine as a lone pedal reed IF we had a = 16' Principal to work with it.   My point being, duplexed or extended 16' stops seldom do the job. By the same token, 16' stops that are extended up to 8 in the pedal seldom = provide a suitable 8' stop. Cheating just does not pay, in the long run.   Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...   Unkie...   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 GET PAID to shop: http://ct.par32.com/?id=3D473FAAG381F58