PipeChat Digest #3912 - Thursday, August 28, 2003
 
Re: organist needing updating (a bit off the topic)
  by <OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com>
Re: Train whistles
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re: organist needing updating (a bit off the topic)
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: organ posture
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Conundrum
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
RE: organist needing updating
  by "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com>
Re: Conundrum
  by "Bill Morton" <wjmwjm@mail.asisna.com>
Rigidity of Pedal Technique Rules
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: organist needing updating
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Conundrum
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: organist needing updating
  by "cc" <belcanto@brainerd.net>
RE: organist needing updating
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Conundrum
  by "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com>
Re: Pedal technique
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: organist needing updating
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
speaking of reger...
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: speaking of reger...
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE:
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE:
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Conundrum
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating (a bit off the topic) From: <OrgelspielerKMD@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:29:36 EDT   In a message dated 8/28/03 8:06:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:   I found this particular entry rather interesting. In fact, my first = teacher told me to only use toes in Baroque music in order to "simulate" the = original playing, of say, Bach. Some of the particular instances where I was to = use this technique, I found it did not allow my desired interpretation of the = piece, which is flowing and rhythmic. I am speaking of the D Major P&F of Bach = (BWV 532). The pedaling I was told to use in the D Major pedal scale was R(D) R(E) L(F#) R(G) L(A) R(B) L(C#) L(D), keep in mind these are all toes (R = =3D right toe, L =3D left toe and letter in parentheses represent the notes on the = pedal board). It always came out sounding "choppy" and I believe when doing = this, it is hard to keep it accurate every single time. I then went onto another teacher and he told me that it's "toes music" andthat I should sneak a = heel (or three) in when necessary. The D Major pedal scale this time was L R L R L = R L R (notes respectively). At the end of the Fugue just before the end of the pedal solo. The [G A B A G B A G] D C# D C# D C# D. (the section in = brackets is the part I will speak about). I used to pedal this, as per my first = teacher, L(G) R(A) L(B) R(A) L(G) R(B) R(A) L(G). I was told by many that just = like the beginning of the Prelude, it would be impossible to keep it accurate = all the time. So it was later revised to, by my second teacher, L(G) R(A) = L(B) R(A) L(G) R(B) [R](A) L(G) ([R] =3D right heel). So I ended up sneaking in a = heel (for all of you toes only purists out there...bite your tongues). I know = I have gotten way off the oringial topic...as I tend to do. I will answer = the question that was originally asked. Concerning Ms. Thomas' beliefs, that = was an old school sort of a thing...as I am led to believe. Then, as my second teacher said, they got smarter. You are much better off with what Harry = Gabb taught you. In fact, as per competitions, technique really isn't the issue. = Most times competitors are screened from the judges. In fact, the European = pedal technique is far different from the American pedal technique. The major difference being with the American pedal technique, one plays on the = inside of their feet and the European way is the exact opposite. Though each way works. = Take Hector Olivera, he uses the European technique and doesn't miss a single = note playing the Flight of the Bumblebee for pedals alone at tempi unknown to human beings. So, I would just go with your best instincts and what your = teacher, Harry Gabbs, taught you. Hope this was helpful.   Best Wishes, Christopher J. Howerter, SPC     > Subject: organist needing updating > From: "david WOODS" <david@galbraith-woods.freeserve.co.uk> > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:16:38 +0100 > > I'm looking for some advice. > > I am a music teacher (UK) and I have just taken on for the first time = four > pupils for organ. > > I see that the 'Graded Anthology' compiled by Anne Marsden Thomas = figures > very prominently on the Associated Board syllabus for several exams. > > Ms Thomas does not give fingerings or footings, but she does give = extensive > performance notes which refer back to her introductory volume "A = Practical > Guide to Playing the Organ". > > When looked myself I was stunned to read instructions which are more or = less > the opposite of what I was taught years ago (my last teacher was Harry = Gabb > of St Paul's Cathedral). So my question to my colleagues is: is this the = new > Orthodoxy or is Ms Thomas just a one-off? > > If her ideas represent the present-day consensus of teaching and = playing, > then I need to know. My pupils will have to face future examiners or > adjudicators. Here are some of her instructions on pedalling: > > > > 1.. Keep your knees together at all times, tying them with a scarf if = you > find it hard to remember. > 2.. 'Find' notes by having memorised the angle of your (lower) legs = that > makes a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8ve [keeping your knees together] > 3.. Expect to use only toes in music before 1800. > 4.. Only use heels when legato playing makes impossible demands on your =   > toes. > > > Since I haven't read a "how to do it" book for many years I don't know > whether these instructions have become today's generally-accepted = wisdom. Can > somebody who's up-to-date please tell me ? > > Regards > > David Woods (UK)        
(back) Subject: Re: Train whistles From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:30:43 -0400   Colin wrote: <<In the UK, train whistles were a bit "baroque"....sort of small and high pitched with tracker action.>>   Colin, In the USA AmTrak has pretty much replaced the air-horns with electric = ones on their trains. They are much, MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH louder, but because they move no air cannot be heard as great a distance as a somewhat softer air-powered horn. They're also ugly to hear.   Progress sucks!   Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 GET PAID to shop: http://ct.par32.com/?id=3D473FAAG381F58      
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating (a bit off the topic) From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:56:13 EDT   I used the Bach D major for auditions at Yale, Northwestern, and Notre = Dame, as well as in two concerts. Each time, I simply used alternating toes (l-r-l-r etc..) all the way up the scale, and didn't make a mistake once. = It allows precise articulation that is unavailable when using heels in that = situation. You just grab the key cheeks and go go go! As far as the fugue subject is =   concerned, I also alternated toes, and brought the left foot over the = right. It gives a mistake free articulation-no unevenness etc...   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: organ posture From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:57:59 -0400   Paul Valtos wrote: <<I was told to keep my knees together when I took lessons at Moravian. I used rubber bands for a short time and then the thought occured to me that they could stick those ideas where the sun does not shine.>>   I recall Dr. Robert Jones' admonition when I studied with him at the University of Houston (TX). And I quote:   Keep you ankles together... keep your knees together... oh, just keep whatever you have TWO of together.   (this was always followed by a wry grin!)     Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Help Some Animals Free: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421 GET PAID to shop: http://ct.par32.com/?id=3D473FAAG381F58      
(back) Subject: Conundrum From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:17:41 -0400   My hubby plays theatre organ. I prefer church music. We currently have a = Conn 651 in our living room. Serves him well, but not me.   What digital organs are out there these days that would satisfy us both? = (And no, I can't *fit* a pipe organ in my house!)   TIA.   --Shirley    
(back) Subject: RE: organist needing updating From: "ameagher@stny.rr.com" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:39:45 -0400     I was taught to keep knees together too, but the toes only thing is totall= y wrong=2E Some people have a complex with only toes before 1800 but it is = a false pretense=2E It says nowhere in writing that Bach used only toes and=   there is evidence of heels being used to play chords in the pedals before Bach(see "The Organ: A Historical Approach" by Sandra Soderland for these=   examples)=2E What age are your students? If they are adults I would reccommend the Gleason method=2E If they are children the Wayne Leupold method works well for the young=2E   Andrew Meagher=20 Original Message: ----------------- From: david WOODS david@galbraith-woods=2Efreeserve=2Eco=2Euk Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:16:38 +0100 To: pipechat@pipechat=2Eorg Subject: organist needing updating     I'm looking for some advice=2E=20   I am a music teacher (UK) and I have just taken on for the first time four=   pupils for organ=2E=20   I see that the 'Graded Anthology' compiled by Anne Marsden Thomas figures very prominently on the Associated Board syllabus for several exams=2E   Ms Thomas does not give fingerings or footings, but she does give extensiv= e performance notes which refer back to her introductory volume "A Practical=   Guide to Playing the Organ"=2E   When looked myself I was stunned to read instructions which are more or less the opposite of what I was taught years ago (my last teacher was Harr= y Gabb of St Paul's Cathedral)=2E So my question to my colleagues is: is thi= s the new Orthodoxy or is Ms Thomas just a one-off?=20   If her ideas represent the present-day consensus of teaching and playing, then I need to know=2E My pupils will have to face future examiners or adjudicators=2E Here are some of her instructions on pedalling:=20   =20   1=2E=2E Keep your knees together at all times, tying them with a scarf i= f you find it hard to remember=2E 2=2E=2E 'Find' notes by having memorised the angle of your (lower) legs = that makes a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8ve [keeping your knees together] 3=2E=2E Expect to use only toes in music before 1800=2E 4=2E=2E Only use heels when legato playing makes impossible demands on y= our toes=2E =20   Since I haven't read a "how to do it" book for many years I don't know whether these instructions have become today's generally-accepted wisdom=2E=   Can somebody who's up-to-date please tell me ?   Regards   David Woods (UK)     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free=2E Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www=2Egrisoft=2Ecom)=2E Version: 6=2E0=2E509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 12/08/03     -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E      
(back) Subject: Re: Conundrum From: "Bill Morton" <wjmwjm@mail.asisna.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:55:17 -0700   At 02:17 PM 8/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: >My hubby plays theatre organ. I prefer church music. We currently have = a >Conn 651 in our living room. Serves him well, but not me. > >What digital organs are out there these days that would satisfy us >both? (And no, I can't *fit* a pipe organ in my house!)     Shirley - Allen 317 or Rodgers 360. Both have dual registration; = classical (for you) and theatre (for him). However, both are very expen$ive!    
(back) Subject: Rigidity of Pedal Technique Rules From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:19:31 EDT   Dear Chatters: The century-old idea of "put your knees together, press General 4, and =   play" rarely works for everybody in every situation. As with all = precision activities, there is a "home stance," whether it is preparing for a = 3-metre dive, playing tennis, addressing home plate before a pitch, or taking a = lineman's stance before a football play. But individual physiology and kinesiology = make for a myriad of variations. While there has been some attempt to standardize the console in accordance with the natural movement of the hip joints, especially the = concavity and radiation of the pedalboard and the relationship of the pedal keys to the = manual keys, there are camps of vehement resistance in which people applaud the occasional physical distortion and strain needed to play flat (or early = converging and convex) pedalboards. Even if we standardize the key-desk, we cannot standardize humans, either on the inside or the outside. Some people simply CANNOT keep their knees together (very small people =   who MUST spread out just to access the notes, overweight musicians, = athletes with highly developed thighs, organists with joint problems or childhood = ailments such as Polio, musicians with very long legs, etc.), and they MUST develop = a personalized technique that works for them. I think it is more important that they learn to play with the inside = of the foot, with good control, than to insist that they tie their knees = together with their belt. In addition, developing good ankle control, rather than = the "toes only, lift-the-foot-and-plunge" technique, will assist most = organists in accurate and comfortable pedal playing.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:41:47 -0400   i was never taught to keep my knees together.   (no comments from certain members of the list...)  
(back) Subject: Re: Conundrum From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:50:43 -0700   An Allen theatre organ with "Classical Second Voices." Been around for awhile; probably can find a used one.   Cheers,   Bud   Shirley wrote: > My hubby plays theatre organ. I prefer church music. We currently have = a Conn 651 in our living room. Serves him well, but not me. > > What digital organs are out there these days that would satisfy us both? = (And no, I can't *fit* a pipe organ in my house!) > > TIA. > > --Shirley > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >        
(back) Subject: Re: organist needing updating From: "cc" <belcanto@brainerd.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:55:42 -0500   BlueeyedBear@aol.com said:   "i was never taught to keep my knees together."     I was just going to ask how it is even possible to do that all the time. Since my legs are so short, if I kept my knees together, I couldn't reach more than an octave apart comfortably with my feet. Surely this can't be taken absolutely literally?   Carla C        
(back) Subject: RE: organist needing updating From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:52:32 -0400   In a message dated 8/28/2003 2:39:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = ameagher@stny.rr.com writes:   > I was taught to keep knees together too, but the toes only thing is = totally > wrong. Some people have a complex with only toes before 1800 but it is = a > false pretense. It says nowhere in writing that Bach used only toes and > there is evidence of heels being used to play chords in the pedals = before > Bach(see "The Organ: A Historical Approach" by Sandra Soderland for = these > examples). What age are your students? If they are adults I would > reccommend the Gleason method. If they are children the > Wayne Leupold > method works well for the young.   it's my understanding that although bach never said "toes only," that we = know bach's approximate height (i personally don't remember) and we have = one of his benches, and judging from this we can ascertain that it was = nearly impossible for him to have used his heels with the frequency that = we do now. however, it seems to me that bach's first historian made a = reference to the organists of bach's time tending to use mostly toes for = their pedaling.  
(back) Subject: Re: Conundrum From: "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:05:22 -0500   >My hubby plays theatre organ.....And no, I can't *fit* a pipe organ in my =   >house!) > >--Shirley   How about purchasing a MIDI capable digital organ with AGO pedalboard. = Then purchase MIDI capable rhythm machines and voices and patch them in.   That's about how close you'll get to a combination church organ and = theatre organ. Easy for you, cumbersome for him.   Also depends on who's making more money, the theater gig or the church = gig. The one with the biggest salary wins. The loser gets to learn a lot about MIDI interfaces.   Just my pennies worth...   Mike Franch in Madison, WI   _________________________________________________________________ Enter for your chance to IM with Bon Jovi, Seal, Bow Wow, or Mary J Blige using MSN Messenger http://entertainment.msn.com/imastar    
(back) Subject: Re: Pedal technique From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:10:56 +0100 (BST)   I went and looked at the pedalling Ralph Downes gave me for the Bach Toccata and Fugue in F - his instructions were always to keep movement to a minimum, and we spent some time on the precise phrasing, fingering and pedalling of this particular work. Certainly he recommended heels as well as toes -the object always being to eliminate unnecessary movement. For example bar 78 (pedal solo - e flat - d - e flat) is clearly marked toe - heel - toe. A good examiner should be looking for a good performance - and technique is an important part of this, but rhythmic precision - which doesn't only mean being on the beat, (though take care you are) should be high on his list along with phrasing, accuracy, registration and style. A common failing is to shorten the last note in a group of four semiquavers. This gives a performance a hurried feel -a lack of control. Good legato - but also staccato when called for - should be another skill in the organist's repertoire. Encourage your students to hear the music in their mind - read through the score as an orchestral conductor should, away from the keyboard. At night before bed is a good time! I don't think examiners should be too rigid - a well prepared, well executed performance at the level being examined should meet their requirements. Examiners usually actually are happier when the candidates do well - as a whole they want them to pass rather than otherwise! If not, they should not be examining. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Scrimbleshanks in territorial dispute Playing the piano in public   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: RE: organist needing updating From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:14:53 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   The subject of "toes only" is about as popular as the digital/pipes debate.   There IS an advantage to be gained from a largely toes-only approach to baroque playing.....the control is more consistent and it is possible to get a more detached touch which can exactly mimic the phrasing of the fingers. However, long-legged organists who can easily drop the heels down to the pedal-board without discomfort, can achieve much the same thing using toes and heels.   For Romantic music, we have not enough legs to play toes-only chords; so the toes only approach is a nonsense. I have yet to hear a toes only version of Middelschulte Perpetuem Mobile or the Dupre G Minor Prelude and Fugue!!   Being rather short in the leg...well both of them actually.....I often struggle. Consequently, I tend to play as much as possible with toes, but drop the heels as necessary. Take, as an example, that glorious pedal passage at the opening of Reger's "Hallelujah! Gott zu loben!"   I can play this toe-heels perfectly, but I'm sure that I do not follow any actual "method" of pedalling....I just use what bits of me fall onto the right notes.   Were I to study a particular "method", I feel sure that it would actually work against me rather than for me. Consequently, I have perhaps a unique pedalling arrangement for every piece I play.   Were I to tie my knees together, I would probably slide off the organ bench, smash my jaw on the Hauptwerk and end up in hospital!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK         --- BlueeyedBear@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/28/2003 2:39:45 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, ameagher@stny.rr.com writes: > > > I was taught to keep knees together too, but the > toes only thing is totally > > wrong   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: speaking of reger... From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:29:54 -0400   In a message dated 8/28/2003 4:14:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk writes:   > Being rather short in the leg...well both of them > actually.....I often struggle. Consequently, I tend to > play as much as possible with toes, but drop the heels > as necessary. Take, as an example, that glorious pedal > passage at the opening of Reger's "Hallelujah! Gott zu > loben!"   not being a reger fan, i don't know which piece this is, so maybe someone = here will...   there's a piece of his that uses double pedal -- left foot is holding a = note low on the pedalboard, right foot holding a note up high. and he = calls for the swell box to CLOSE! of all the nerve... if he were alive = now i'd smack him.  
(back) Subject: Re: speaking of reger... From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:52:34 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   Well....we've established that you're a violent person at least!!   Poor Reger was never an organist and he drank a lot in between bouts of depression and melancholy....I guess he suffered.   However, Mr Blueeyedbear raises an interesting point of performance, for in the opening bars of the Sonata on the 94th Psalm, Roger Fisher managed to achieve the impossible swell crescendo with both feet fully occupied in his recording on the Great Cathedral Organ Series of many years ago (HMV)   I wondered about this for years!   I tried every which way I knew, including attempting to hitch the swell pedal with my toe whilst holding a note with my heel!   Perhaps a long stick is the answer?   It is infuriating, because that crescendo is just WONDERFUL!   Anyone know any tricks?   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- BlueeyedBear@aol.com wrote:   > not being a reger fan, i don't know which piece this > is, so maybe someone here will... > > there's a piece of his that uses double pedal -- > left foot is holding a note low on the pedalboard, > right foot holding a note up high. and he calls for > the swell box to CLOSE! of all the nerve... if he > were alive now i'd smack him.     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:53:00 -0500   I don't think the Buzard organ at the church where I grew up has one, and it certainly doesn't have a 32', although it was prepared. :) The Flute a Biberon on the Buzard organ at St. John the Divine in Champaign is REALLY lovely stop.   Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: "Michael David" <michaelandmaggy@earthlink.net> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:46:23 -0500 Subject: RE:   > It's really an additional John-Paul Buzard name plate. > > His stop lists are characterized by a Flute a Biberon on the Great, a > floating Major Tuba (horizontal), and a pedal 32' Lieblich Gedect > (faux, of > course - with a volume control yielding other stop names) > > Don't you play a Laukauff-built tracker of his? If so, you may be > missing > the latter two stops. > > It is, in fact close to a rohrflote or chimney flute. I believe he was > attracted to the name because of some association with drunken sailors. > Walter Bradford could give you more details as could John-Paul himself. > > > Michael - in chilly Evanston      
(back) Subject: Re: OHS 2003 - 4th Full Day - 6/23 From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:57:29 -0700 (PDT)   Hello,   I live next door to the village of Haworth; the home to the Bronte Sisters of literary fame.   It is pronounced "Howath"   Work that one out!!   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Malcolm Wechsler <manderusa@earthlink.net> wrote: > Thank you, Alan. > > What in Britain is pronounced like it looks, I ask > you?   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:06:13 -0500   As is ours on Opus 20.   Peter   The Flute=20 a Biberon on the Buzard organ at St. John the Divine in Champaign is=20 REALLY lovely stop. =20   Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI=20 "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"        
(back) Subject: Re: Conundrum From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:28:29 EDT   An allen with an expander box and adjustable trems will do the trick. At = my previous church I had an MDS 8-it could sound like a theater organ VERY = easily.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com