PipeChat Digest #3921 - Sunday, August 31, 2003
 
Re: Messiaen, Jon Gillock & Naji Hakim
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Messiaen, Jon Gillock & Naji Hakim
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: liszt ad nos
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Demessieux
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Messiaen
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Preservation/Destruction of Organs
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
RE: mess and liz and mendel
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: Leather deterioration in NYC
  by "James R McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
Messiaen, et al.
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed?
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re:  Demessieux
  by <BlueeyedBear@aol.com>
Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Demessieux
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed?
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Messiaen on Messiaen
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Langlais and added 6ths (was Atl. City party horns)
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
Re: mess and liz and mendel
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Calvary Baptist Allen Demo Disc
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Naji Hakim
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Calvary Baptist Allen Demo Disc
  by "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed?
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Inconsistency in Bench/Pedal board
  by <Oboe32@aol.com>
Emergency 911 location calls - contact Legislators!!!
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen, Jon Gillock & Naji Hakim From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:30:00 -0400   Dear List,   I somehow thought that Jennifer Bate was another chosen one. Anyone on = the other side know about that? I know she did a Messiaen series at = Royal Festival Hall, which does not seem like quite the atmosphere, but = I am told it was marvelous nonetheless.   Cheers,   Malcolm     ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ProOrgo53@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Messiaen, Jon Gillock & Naji Hakim     In a message dated 8/30/2003 12:18:31 PM Central Daylight Time, = walterg@nauticom.net writes:     >However, Jon Gillock, a Phillip Truckenbrod Artist, is the only = living human being that is approved by Messiean's living family to be = able to interpret his music in the proper manner. I remember once = participating in a master class with him on Mendelssohn..... > Anyway, he does teach at Juilliard, though he lives in France. = Years ago, >when he lived in the US, my teacher, Stephen Williams, studied with = him. > >Sincerely, >Christopher J. Howerter, SPC     Some would beg to differ re: Jon Gillock's reputed status as "the only = living human being that is approved by Messiaen's living family to be = able to interpret his music in the proper manner." No offense to Dr. = Jon Gillock. He is a wonderful musician IMO; I was privileged to witness = him perform in New York City during the 1989 AGO Regional Convention.=20   Nevertheless, it was Olivier Messiaen, himself, who designated Naji = Hakim as his successor at l'=E9glise de la Trinit=E9, Paris, just prior = to his death. =20   Naji Hakim, for those who may not know, was born in Beirut in 1955. = After completing his Law degree (satisfying his father), Nakim studied = organ with Jean Langlais, and at the Conservatoire National Sup=E9rieur = de Musique de Paris, in the classes of Roger Boutry, Jean-Claude Henry, = Marcel Bitsch, Rolande Falcinelli, Jacques Cast=E9r=E8de and Serge Nigg, = where he obtained first prizes in harmony, counterpoint, fugue, organ, = improvisation, analysis and orchestration.=20   He also received first prizes at the International Organ Competitions = at Haarlem, Beauvais, Lyon, Nuremberg, St. Albans, Strasbourg and = Rennes, the composition prize of the "Amis de l'Orgue" for his Symphonie = en Trois Mouvements (Paris, 1984), and the first prize in the = International Competition for Organ Composition, in memory of Anton = Heiller for The Embrace of Fire (Collegedale, Tennessee, 1986).=20   In 1991, he received the Prix de Composition Musicale Andr=E9 Caplet = from the Acad=E9mie des Beaux-Arts. His many published compositions = include instrumental, symphonic and vocal works. From 1985 until 1993, = Nakim was principal organist of the Basilique du Sacr=E9-Coeur, Paris.   Cordially, Dale G. Rider  
(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen, Jon Gillock & Naji Hakim From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:35:39 -0400   However, just to thicken the texture of all this, I feel certain that I = had heard at one point that Messiaen was forbidden to play his own music = at La Trinite, at least at Mass, so shocking was it found to be. So this = might mean that Naji would never get to play it there, so perhaps he was = NOT annointed after all, and who really cares?   Helping Charlie and Rodney in their curmudgeonly role, not that they = need any!   Saturday Cheers,   Malcolm   -- Original Message -----=20 From: ProOrgo53@aol.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 3:40 PM Subject: Re: Messiaen, Jon Gillock & Naji Hakim     In a message dated 8/30/2003 2:34:42 PM Central Daylight Time, = jlspeller@mindspring.com writes:       Didn't Jennifer Bate get some sort of imprimatur from Messiaen too?   I think the truth of the matter may have been that Messiaen = designated=20 several people as the only person able to interpret his music = properly. <g>   John Speller       Come on, folks! Let's not PAINT the Maestro as senile, bungling or = idiotic! After all, he did not have to be carried away from La Trinite = ranting, screaming or yelling. When he left he left with dignity and = respect. If he, indeed, patted the head of even a dozen (that magical, = biblical number) who had the opportunity to play for him, it is Hakim = who got the job and, to me, that says plenty.   Dale Rider (again)  
(back) Subject: Re: liszt ad nos From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:37:11 -0400   On 8/30/03 5:10 PM, "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> wrote:   > I'll hold out for the live performance by Marie-Madeleine Durufle at St. > Thomas, New York, October 16, 1966.   As differentiated from "the other kind of" performance.   I know I'm being a snotty snit, but isn't there (or can't there be) better terminology for that?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Demessieux From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:47:09 -0400   Dear Old Blue Eyes and List,   That description of wrenching the Organ off the wall is about the best I have heard. I heard her once, at Woolsey Hall. That was in the less than good old days, when Aubrey Thompson-Allen (Nick's father) needed to sit inside the Organ in case anything went wrong. I will not forget the = intense excitement of her performance of Piece Heroique - as it built and built, people sort of levitated - many of us gradually rose to the standing position, hardly realizing what was happening. What an experience!   Now, as that horrible lady says, "Go and do the right thing" - tomorrow!   Malcolm   ----- Original Message ----- From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: liszt ad nos     > i haven't heard the recordings mentioned, but my favorite is that of > demessieux. talk about a searing performance! sounds like she was wrenching the > organ off the wall!!! > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:03:40 -0400   "Hans Ola Ericsson? I can't say I heard of him."   He's Swedish, living and teaching in Bremen, Germany. He and Naki Hakim were both after the same job in Paris -- Hakim got it. He's a very nice!     He also thought I was way too tall to only be 18 ;)   Shell      
(back) Subject: Preservation/Destruction of Organs From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:08:16 -0400   Tuba declaims: "Organs are destroyed and replaced because that's > what people want, not because it was necessary."   This is rather like the advert Nelson Barden runs in the OHS Handbook for every convention: "Fashion wears out more Organs than playing ever will."   I also recall the Dean of the Cathedral in Portland, ME, beginning his sermon at a wonderful Evensong we had at our convention there in 1992: It was something like: "It is to the fact that this has been a somewhat impoverished area for many years that you owe the opportunity to see and hear all these wonderful old Organs."   Cheers,   Malcolm   ----- Original Message ----- From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Leather deterioration in NYC     > There are pipe organs from the same era (1920s) in NYC that operated on > their original leather for 70 or more years before being releathered. > GOOD leather lasts 50-70 years, even in this city. Leather costs = less > than junking an organ and buying a replacement that lasts half as long. > I just saw an early electropneumatic organ from the 1890s on its original > leather, here in the city. Organs are destroyed and replaced because that's > what people want, not because it was necessary. > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: RE: mess and liz and mendel From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:10:07 -0500   Dale and others, I try to keep an open mind and positive attitude, but Hakim, Messiaen, and Langlais, as well as some others still living, I can only take in small doses. Maybe it's their immensity and grandeur, but then, it's early in the day to start drinking.   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of ProOrgo53@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 2:45 PM   How positiv and great; may it swell, indeed. It shall have to, for me as well; Hakim's music seems to require quatro-focals!!!!   d      
(back) Subject: Re: Leather deterioration in NYC From: "James R McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:18:17 -0400       Harley Piltingsrude (Past President of the American Leather Chemist's Association and owner of an E.M. Skinner) identifies sulphur dioxide as one of the major factors in leather deterioration, especially in urban areas. There are many stories of Libraries installing gas lighting and then discovering ancient books with leather bindings suddenly deteriorating at rapid rates.   There is also evidence of superior longevity of leather in NYC organs (and organs elsewhere) with blowers installed in towers. (Sulphur Dioxide being heavier than air).   It is Piltingrude's contention that there IS leather available today which can withstand the attack of sulphur dioxide as well as the old leathers - namely that which is tanned with Chromium Oxide. These leathers are available today. The largest supplier of this leather in ALL thicknesses is Columbia Organ Leathers.   Check out his treatise on the subject - available from the OHS..   Jim McFarland     On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:27:45 -0400 Alan Freed <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> writes: > On 8/30/03 4:57 PM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote: > > > There are pipe organs from the same era (1920s) in NYC that > operated on their > > original leather for 70 or more years before being releathered. > GOOD leather > > lasts 50-70 years, even in this city. Leather costs less than > junking an organ > > and buying a replacement that lasts half as long. I just saw an > early > > electropneumatic organ from the 1890s on its original leather, > here in the > > city. Organs are destroyed and replaced because that's what people > want, not > > because it was necessary. > > Bravo! And Deo gratias. > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related > topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > >  
(back) Subject: Messiaen, et al. From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:22:04 -0500   I must add a postscript: Rick, who is not necessarily an organ music lover, has loved every Messiaen piece he has heard played. I've attended those performances plus others, and am still floundering. You've already heard the story of the little old lady and her remarks during "The Celestial Banquet", and that I loved the "Dieu parmi nous" as performed by Erwan le Prado at breakneck speed (probably not a performance blessed by the composer, but the faster, the better).   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed? From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:26:57 EDT     Ha!    
(back) Subject: Re: Demessieux From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:27:38 EDT   speaking of demessieux, does anyone have, or ever heard, her performance = of her own etudes? i heard that musical heritage society issued them in the = 60s, but not since. also heard that her performance of them almost beyond = words (seeing as how they are at the edge of playability anyway). is there = anyone who can attest to this?  
(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:45:53 -0400   On 8/30/03 7:26 PM, "ProOrgo53@aol.com" <ProOrgo53@aol.com> wrote:   > > Ha! > > Was that a good idea?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Demessieux From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:54:55 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: <BlueeyedBear@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>   > speaking of demessieux, does anyone have, or ever heard, her performance of > her own etudes? i heard that musical heritage society issued them in = the 60s, > but not since.   The Musical Heritage Society recordings of Demessieux's complete organ = works were done by Pierre Labric, a Demessieux (and Dupre/Durufle/Cochereau) = pupil who clearly had some chops. Interestingly, although most of the works were recorded at St. Ouen, Rouen, the 6 Etudes were done on a (electric?) Beuchet-Debierre instrument at the cathedral in Angouleme. Action?   MAF    
(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed? From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:15:18 -0400   Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed?Oh, it's probably because I = misspelled annointed - it only wants one n!   Even Homer nods.   Cheers,   Malcolm ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alan Freed=20 To: PipeChat=20 Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed?     On 8/30/03 7:26 PM, "ProOrgo53@aol.com" <ProOrgo53@aol.com> wrote:       Ha!     Was that a good idea?   Alan=20    
(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen on Messiaen From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:16:35 EDT   In a message dated 8/30/2003 4:23:03 PM Central Daylight Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes: He didn't like the way HE interpreted his own music (play as I write, not as I play).   I find his recordings to be quite intriguing and informative. Maybe he was an EXTREMELY humble man.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Langlais and added 6ths (was Atl. City party horns) From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:34:40 EDT   Regarding Ligeti's "Volumina":   I enjoy that piece as well, and was only suggesting that if Langlais' harmonies make one cringe, Volumina will really make one's hair stand on = edge.   I'd be interested in which recording you own. I have an old recording by = Gerd Zacher on LP which still sounds very nice on a good sound system. Although = I haven't pulled it out of my very disorganized library to look, I believe Ligeti's "Aventures" and "Nouvelle Aventures" are on the flip side (these = are not organ works, but for chamber ensemble, harpsichord and voice). By the way, = has anyone seen the "Volumina" score? I've seen other Ligeti scores (including =   "Aventures") but not "Volumina". BH    
(back) Subject: Re: mess and liz and mendel From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:55:15 EDT   In a message dated 8/30/2003 12:00:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 gksjd85@direcway.com writes:   > Since I=E2=80=99m no longer playing, I=E2=80=99m hoping that repertoire sw= ells.   sorry you are no longer playing.   i love a lot of stuff much of it that i cannot play. that was my 2 cents on= =20 that particular thread. I reflect my teachers and upbringing to a point in=20 that manner. I dont care too much for Jazz either. <G>   I admire it all and the performers that can and do!!!!!   happy day off all   dale in Florida      
(back) Subject: Re: Calvary Baptist Allen Demo Disc From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:57:34 EDT   I though Elmore played the one at 10 Pres in Philly.     oh well dale    
(back) Subject: Naji Hakim From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:10:48 -0500   Is anyone proofreading their emails before they send them? I don't know how many different ways I've seen M. Hakim's name spelled, but it has been more than 3 :)   Alicia -who often forgets to proofread- Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"      
(back) Subject: Re: Calvary Baptist Allen Demo Disc From: "David Evangelides" <davide@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:30:01 -0600   You're correct. I had forgotten that Robert Elmore was indeed the house organist at 10th Pres in Philly at that time period (1960's). He was brought in to Calvary Baptist, NYC for the Dedication Concert of the Allen.   David E   On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 7:24PM -0700, Keys4bach@aol.com wrote: > I though Elmore played the one at 10 Pres in Philly. > > > oh well > dale   David E   davide@theatreorgans.com 719-867-2729  
(back) Subject: Re: Messiaen - Shocking / Hakim - Annointed? From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:00:11 EDT   In a message dated 8/30/2003 7:16:12 PM Central Daylight Time, manderusa@earthlink.net writes:   > > Oh, it's probably because I misspelled annointed - it only wants one n! >   I, too, stand corrected. You're a true gentleman.   - Dale    
(back) Subject: Inconsistency in Bench/Pedal board From: <Oboe32@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:02:47 EDT   Hey All,   As I have been practicing more and more at more and more = places, I've been noticing more seeming inconsistencies in pedal board spacings, bench height, and other minor details. I know there are AGO standards, but = I sware that some organ builders are just trying to get us to hit the sharp = instead of the natural!? Anyone agree?   -Pete Isherwood  
(back) Subject: Emergency 911 location calls - contact Legislators!!! From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:03:21 EDT   Consumers can still register through Sunday, August 31 for the Do-not-call =   list by dialing 1-888-382-1222 or visiting http://www.donotcall.gov.   Snowden is urging consumers to also contact both their cellular telephone companies and state officials to urge them to provide what is known as = Enhanced 911 service, which allows an operator to pinpoint the location or the = number of a wireless call.   Though wireless customers pay a surcharge for E911 service, some cell = phones and transmission towers cannot transmit the location of the caller, and cash-strapped local and state governments have not spent the money they've collected to = install the new technology, instead using it to close budget gaps.   Hope this is helpful information, Dale Rider