PipeChat Digest #4144 - Monday, December 8, 2003
 
Time delay
  by "Richard M Washington" <richard@sulgrave.clara.net>
Re: Church: full-time or part time?
  by "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>
Re: Drawbars
  by "Bill Morton" <wjmwjm@mail.asisna.com>
IRC
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Church: full-time or part time?
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <organist@clover.net>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <organist@clover.net>
Re: Church: full-time or part time?
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Time delay From: "Richard M Washington" <richard@sulgrave.clara.net> Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:06:25 -0000   Thank you to those who responded to my question, and apologies for = taking so long to get back. Unfortunately, the organ in question stopped = working - wind not getting to the pipes, it seems - and with it being = the time of year for last-minute maintenance to be made to organs, it = may not be until after Christmas before a technician can repair it. No = matter!   Anyway, thank you for the encouragement. I suspect that using a = microphone and headphones would present practical considerations, as = well as somewhat defeating the point of getting to hear me make live = 'pipe' organ music. I therefore guess I will just have to get used to = the delay the hard way.   In answer to Andr=E9s' request for further information, the = specification of the organ at present is as follows.   Pedal Open Diapason 16 Bourdon 16 Violoncello 8 Trombone 16   Great Double Open Diapason 16 - (Stopped bass) Large Open Diapason 8 Small Open Diapason 8 Stopped Diapason 8 Octave 4 Flute 4 Twelfth 2 2/3 Super Octave 2 Mixture IV Trumpet 8   Swell - enclosed Bourdon 16 Open Diapason 8 Salicional 8 - (Stopped bass?) Concert Flute 8 Vox Angelica 8 - TC Principal 4 Fifteenth 2 Mixture III Contra Oboe 16 - TC Cornopean 8 Clarion 4 Tremulant   Choir Gamba 8 - Stopped bass Dulciana 8 Gedact 8 Flute 4 Quint 2 2/3 Flageolet 2 Clarinet 8   Swell to Great Swell to Choir Swell to Pedal Swell Octave* Swell Unison off* Swell Suboctave* Choir to Great* Choir to Pedal Great to Pedal   The instrument is by Gray & Davison, and was built in 1875, with more or = less the same specification as above, save for the couplers marked with = *. Some minor alterations were made, tonally, presumably in 1953 when = the Tracker action was replaced with a remote electric console with = electro-pneumatic action. All stops use the same wind pressure.   You can see the building, Christ Church, Macclesfield, and the organ in = pictures on the following website. The organ is shaped more like a = truncated triangle in plan than the picture suggests, ie it is wider at = the back than the front.   http://home.clara.net/craigthornber/cheshire/htmlfiles/macclesfieldcc.htm= l   If you want to see the specifications of as many British organs as = possible, then have you been to the NPOR (National Pipe Organ Register) = on-line database? It attempts to list the specification of every pipe = organ in the country. It will give you a feel for typical stop lists, if = nothing else, but entries are not always 100% accurate, nor indeed proof = that the organ (or the building) still exists. Many entries date from = surveys made 50 years ago. The database suffered some kind of hardware = fault recently, and since then I have not been able to search it at home = (although this may relate to the installation of a new browser), but I = can access it properly at work. Anyway, if you don't already know of it, = it may serve as a 'point of departure' for you.   http://lehuray2.csi.cam.ac.uk/npor.html   I hope that information is of some interest to you.     Best regards,       Richard Washington.  
(back) Subject: Re: Church: full-time or part time? From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:29:36 -0500   Dale,   Thanks, I'm gathering opinions in order to become better informed=20 myself. I agree with what you're saying.   Chuck   On Dec 7, 2003, at 4:54 PM, Keys4bach@aol.com wrote:   > Hi Chuck, > > Don't even think about taking away what few jobs there are for us=20 > "trained" people.=A0 > > geez,=A0 why don't we have 3 part time ministers and then we don't = have=20 > to pay them living wages nor benes and each can work 2 days. > > nothing personal here Chuck, but those of the MANY of us who train for=20=   > this and long to serve our God with the talents given to us need to=20 > eat too. > > > dale in Florida=    
(back) Subject: Re: Drawbars From: "Bill Morton" <wjmwjm@mail.asisna.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:39:07 -0800   At 02:08 PM 12/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:   >Brown - 16' >Brown - 5 1/3' (NOT 10 2/3') > >White - 8' >White - 4' >Black - 2 2/3' >White - 2' > >Black - 1 3/5' >Black - 1 1/3' >White - 1'   Bud--glad to hear you are home from the hospital, and sorry to hear you = had to go in the first place.   Hadn't realized your expertise encompassed Hammonds, as well! I have an RT3 and enjoy it, although the tonal compass is limited. I like my Conn 652 more.   Bill  
(back) Subject: IRC From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:55:04 -0800   I'm on ...   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Church: full-time or part time? From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:50:37 EST   Having also been both, and recovering from some recent upheaval in my = career, there are blessings and banes of both full and part time work.   I will suffice it to say, the "benefit" of working part-time at a church = as organist/choir director is that you are not solely dependent on said institution for your livelihood. It has been my experience that churches = are not the most pleasant employers (God, of course, is wonderful to work for).   I think this topic, a very good one, is indicative of the "a la carte" mentality in churches today, particularly as it relates to worship = choices. The drawback to having several "part-timers" can be the issue of authority. = Who actually is "in charge"? Who calls the shots? Who determines the direction = of the music program? And, who brings all the various elements of the music = program into a unified whole?   Neil Brown    
(back) Subject: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <organist@clover.net> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 21:27:06 -0800   Hi,   The church where I play will be getting the organ re-done. One of the things to be replaced is the console. It will definitely be a drawknob console. I'm trying to decide whether it should be an English style or Terrace. I guess when it really comes down to it, it's 6 of one, and half a dozen of the other. What are the list opinions? Preferences?   Thanks, Mike        
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:31:12 EST   The terrace style has a lower profile, which can be beneficial for organist/directors.    
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:03:06 -0500   Um...dumb question, but what's the difference?   Shelley   >>> organist@clover.net 12/08/03 12:27 AM >>> Hi,   The church where I play will be getting the organ re-done. One of the things to be replaced is the console. It will definitely be a drawknob console. I'm trying to decide whether it should be an English style or Terrace. I guess when it really comes down to it, it's 6 of one, and half a dozen of the other. What are the list opinions? Preferences?   Thanks, Mike       "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:14:27 -0600   At 10:03 PM -0500 12/7/03, Shelley Culver wrote: >Um...dumb question, but what's the difference? > >Shelley   Shelley   Rather than try to explain it I can direct you to two photos on our company's web site that will show the difference.   Terraced console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/st.htm   English style console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/churchof.htm   As you can see the terraced console is of a much lower profile.   Hope this explains it for you.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Shelley Culver" <culverse@westminster.edu> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:25:00 -0500   Oh, thanks so much! I've seen both, I just never knew what they were called. We have English ones at school and terraced at church.   Shelley   >>> david@blackiris.com 12/07/03 10:14 PM >>> At 10:03 PM -0500 12/7/03, Shelley Culver wrote: >Um...dumb question, but what's the difference? > >Shelley   Shelley   Rather than try to explain it I can direct you to two photos on our company's web site that will show the difference.   Terraced console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/st.htm   English style console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/churchof.htm   As you can see the terraced console is of a much lower profile.   Hope this explains it for you.   David "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:24:17 -0500   David, Shelley, 'et al',   Well, they always say a picture is worth a thousand words, - then two pictures must be worth two thousand words!   And, Shelley, it's not a dumb question!   Bob Conway   At 10:14 PM 12/7/03, you wrote: >At 10:03 PM -0500 12/7/03, Shelley Culver wrote: >>Um...dumb question, but what's the difference? >> >>Shelley > >Shelley > >Rather than try to explain it I can direct you to two photos on our >company's web site that will show the difference. > >Terraced console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/st.htm > >English style console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/churchof.htm > >As you can see the terraced console is of a much lower profile. > >Hope this explains it for you. > >David >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:48:38 -0500   On 12/8/03 12:27 AM, "organist@clover.net" <organist@clover.net> wrote:   > What are the list opinions? Preferences?   Not a big deal, Mike. But fix your clock, so your inquiry comes in before the responses thereto.   OK?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 23:02:33 EST   Mike:   In considering which one, do you need to direct, keep the music rack low for comfort, see the director over the top of the console, go Terrace. If none of the above matter, English.   Ron    
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:05:49 -0600   Innkawgneeto@cs.com wrote:   > The terrace style has a lower profile, which can be beneficial for > organist/directors.     Yes, in terms of being able to see and conduct the choir. No, in terms of being able to see and identify stops. So far as the latter is concerned, the drawknobs should be as near as possible to the center of vision of the organist, and it is easier to see and operate stops arranged on quite tall jambs, rather than on jambs that are in the organist's peripheral vision.   John Speller          
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <organist@clover.net> Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:19:01 -0500   > In considering which one, do you need to direct...     Yes, I also direct the choir. I was thinking more in terms of playing comfort. I like it when the stops are angled toward me. The only trerraced console I've played was a concave one. It was certainly very comfortable. The organ was four manuels, and everything was easy to see and reach. The organ at the church will only have two manuels, and the terraced style I'm thinking of would be straight instead of curved.   Thanks, Mike        
(back) Subject: Re: Church: full-time or part time? From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 23:49:07 -0500   >Subject: Church: full-time or part time? >From: "Charles Peery" <cepeery@earthlink.net>   >Would anyone be willing to share their experience (anecdotal or statistical) about the relative benefits/drawbacks of a church music program based on a full-time position vs. a (or several) part-time position(s)? >   The main benefit to the church of having a full-time Organist- Director is having not only the availability of a music staff person for consultation and planning, but also to give continuity to the overall music program.   Being the Director of Music does not necessarily mean that one person must do everything. The Director of Music is an administrator and it is to his credit if he can involve volunteers to assist in the direction of the music program. The Music Director trains, encourages, and guides volunteers so that all choirs and music groups are getting quality instruction and are involved in the regular worship of the parish.   Much like a minister, the full-time Organist-Director's schedule is, or should be, very flexible, allowing for time outside of "office hours" for rehearsals, planning, and "schmoozing." This is one of the most enjoyable benefits, IMHO, and only once in my career have I had a full- time position that required me to be "in the office" from 9-5 Monday through Friday, with rehearsals and services extra. It was like having two jobs.   I hope that you can maintain this position as a full-time position. It is very difficult to get a full-time position re-established once it has been abandoned.   In addition, being a full time staff member gives you significantly more influence, ne clout, in the workings of the parish.     -----------   I have posted on my webside under "Music for Sunday" a recital that I played on Wednesday, 3 Dec, following our regular supper. In keeping with the "season of giving" I presented the organ as a gift from many people, not only those who gave to pay for it, but also those people who contributed their gifts in the voicing of the instrument, stop by stop. Unfortunately, it was not possible to include by name those people who did other fabrication work. I am very grateful to the folks at Casavant for their kind assistance in putting this program together. Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow...   Unkie Doinky ... aka Bruce and the Baskerbeagles of HowlingAcres = http://baskerbeagles.com HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and = http://pets.care2.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 04:23:05 EST   In a message dated 12/7/2003 10:19:45 PM Central Standard Time, organist@clover.net writes: Yes, I also direct the choir. I was thinking more in terms of playing comfort. I like it when the stops are angled toward me. The only trerraced console I've played was a concave one. It was certainly very comfortable. The organ was four manuels, and everything was easy to see and reach. The organ at the church will only have two manuels, and the terraced style I'm thinking of would be straight instead of curved. I would strongly recommend the French style. Go Cavaille Coll style. The = St Antoine console, or one of the smaller orgues de choeur could be your = model. It facilitates conducting, and makes it easier to preserve sight lines. = Be sure that the music desk is put where the notes are easily readable. = While initially it may be more challenging to pull registrations, you will most certainly become most fluent on this console in a few months. Also, we = have pistons to help us with that! You may want to consider, depending on = whether or not there is room, to have slightly larger, more rugged draw knobs. That is = one of the reasons I prefer trackers. There is nothing like yanking on stops = 3 at a time! What will your toe stud arrangement be? Maybe you could have = pseudo ventils put on. I would also recommend having numerous general toe studs = on both sides of the swell shoes. What will the stop list be?   Greg.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com