PipeChat Digest #4147 - Wednesday, December 10, 2003
 
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Advice on Allen
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
RE: CONSOLE REBUILDING
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: Subject: Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com>
console layouts on the web?
  by "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu>
Re: console layouts on the web?
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Console Rebuilding
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
RE: Church: full-time or part time?
  by "Justin Terrell" <btone@yahoo.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 05:22:32 -0600   Based on no scientific testing of any kind, my general thought is that the terraced console would be less ergonomic than the English style. The top row of terraced drawknobs, in particular, would require leaning forward and stretching to draw. The English would be all on one plane as far as distance from the organist is concerned - simply a matter of higher veritical reach - but not higher plus farther away. It appears to me that the terraced console would add another level of back strain to an instrument that already has too many.   Margo Dillard     David Scribner wrote: > At 10:03 PM -0500 12/7/03, Shelley Culver wrote: > >> Um...dumb question, but what's the difference? >> >> Shelley > > > Shelley > > Rather than try to explain it I can direct you to two photos on our > company's web site that will show the difference. > > Terraced console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/st.htm > > English style console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/churchof.htm > > As you can see the terraced console is of a much lower profile. > > Hope this explains it for you. > > David > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Advice on Allen From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:24:58 -0600   Hello, Tom and Rick, et al: > I know that the T-12-A was still in production... > This organ was also known as the Allen Rondo... I have one of these organs on consignment. Self contained speakers. If interested, it works, ...and is cheap. F. Richard Burt ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 07:42:39 -0600   Yes, and No. There are ways of modifying either style console to make it more ergonomic. See our terraced design for Kent School, following Hook and Hastings, and various other consoles we have done, including Trinity = Ep. New Orleans, with curved English style jambs. www.redmanpipeorgans.com Roy Redman   Margo Dillard wrote:   > Based on no scientific testing of any kind, my general thought is that > the terraced console would be less ergonomic than the English style. > The top row of terraced drawknobs, in particular, would require leaning > forward and stretching to draw. The English would be all on one plane > as far as distance from the organist is concerned - simply a matter of > higher veritical reach - but not higher plus farther away. It appears > to me that the terraced console would add another level of back strain > to an instrument that already has too many. > > Margo Dillard > > David Scribner wrote: > > At 10:03 PM -0500 12/7/03, Shelley Culver wrote: > > > >> Um...dumb question, but what's the difference? > >> > >> Shelley > > > > > > Shelley > > > > Rather than try to explain it I can direct you to two photos on our > > company's web site that will show the difference. > > > > Terraced console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/st.htm > > > > English style console - http://www.nicholsandsimpson.com/churchof.htm > > > > As you can see the terraced console is of a much lower profile. > > > > Hope this explains it for you. > > > > David > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: RE: CONSOLE REBUILDING From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:47:06 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   As always I can give only a rather theorethical opinion: This is a case of historicism vs. practical considerations, and, against = my image as "history nut" :) I incline to the latter; more that your project seems to boil down to a console moving and no parts that are essential to the organ's historical substance (Casework, chests, *pipes!*, *Original tonal finish and disposition!*) will be = touched.   Comfort of the organist, reliable function of the console and reliable communication for liturgical purposes are most important in this case because it can become a matter of further life or dead of the whole instrument. As for the console inwards: every time I read that a historic TPN or EP console is refurbished with solid state elements the european fashioned historician in me groans but the American Orgler in me cheers. The = American Orgler usually is the winner! I have to fight my way thru all these darned solenoids and contact rails for the only reason that my country isn't = ready for High Tech yet.   Compromises can and must be made more often than all of us historicians/restorers would like to admit. But we should keep in mind = that conscious, justified and well made alterations can become a valuable part = of the instrument's history too, even increase its value. Move the console to a better place but don't make it "movable"- fix it = again if possible. If the inwards are in good shape and seem to remain in = reliable functioning condition for several years more, leave them alone. If not, or if the console on a movable platform is an absolute must, refurbish... but try to alter the original layout, drawknobs, shell and panels the least as possible and see that the necessary alterations (even the non visible to the layman) are clean, well-looking craftmanswork.   *Hire an OB or tech who is conscious about the historical value of the instrument* for this job. If possible (Costs and time as always, I know) = get several opinions and projects and have them examined by the OHS.   Yours Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.      
(back) Subject: RE: Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:29:16 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve     Larry Wheelock writes:   > This is a plea -- whenever you can -- in rehearsal or service -- get = your butt off that bench and really conduct the choir. It can make a real difference. Your choir needs to see your whole body, not just some disembodied hands flailing at them. Try it -- they will respond, i = guarantee it!.   Absolutely right- except when it becomes necessary to accompany the choir = at the organ *and* conduct it. Happened to me (and I was told that the Old Masters conducted sitting at the organ or harpsichord). And then, a low profiled console (with a transparent rack) becomes a must...   As for the console I prefer terrace, each terrace with the drawknobs for = the corresponding division. But this layout is only practical up to a certain amount of stops, I admit.   Just a thought Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.        
(back) Subject: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:05:54 EST   One factor that may push an organbuilder or organ conservator toward = the cleaning and releathering of an extant action is that they know that the materials and techniques used for such conservation will be as valid and = available in the future as they were when the organ was first designed and built. = Many adhere to the adage that "as long as The Almighty keeps making sheep, = horses, and trees, I can restore this musical instrument." Others see modern electronic combination systems, relays, and = artificial sound generators as progressive, disposable, replaceable items, like clock-radios and VCRs; if the firm goes out of business, or discontinues = making the parts, there will be newer, better alternatives. A great debate arose recently regarding the restoration of an = important historical instrument, and among the points of contention was the proposal = for a new electronic combination system of incredibly vast capacity. Aside from the (un/anti-) historical implications of this proposal, = the musicological argument was also taken into consideration. Such a system = would enable organists to use the instrument quite unidiomatically, in ways it = was never intended to be used. It is no different than adding octave couplers = (from everywhere to everywhere) on a superbly finished Hook, Johnson, or Trost = organ that was scaled, voiced, and finished with no intention of ever having = such a device applied to the meticulous balance of the organ's tonal forces. When bidding on any organ project, I make sure that the client understands that the lifespan of the pipe organ will exceed that of its = non-traditional components.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City   ..  
(back) Subject: RE: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:07:40 -0600   And its purchasers.   Seb wrote:   When bidding on any organ project, I make sure that the client=20 understands that the lifespan of the pipe organ will exceed that of its non-traditional=20 components.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City      
(back) Subject: Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: "Bill Raty" <billious@billraty.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:44:13 -0800 (PST)   Sebastian makes understandable and common sense points.   As counterpoint I present the following viewpoint--   I understand the use of traditional materials & practices, however there is the substantial cost of labor to consider.   I personally would rather a builder/conservertor to spend more of that attention and resource on the pipework where the effect can really be heard and less on maintaining console mechanisms for the experience and inspection of future generations.   While the point that a new   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D    
(back) Subject: console layouts on the web? From: "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:14:06 -0500 (EST)   Greetings, all.   Does anyone know of any console layout graphics on the web (or have a graphic file they'd be willing to share?) You know, a graphic representation of the position of each drawknob/tilting tablet/etc.?   I need to create one for a III/P instrument, and am not sure where to begin, so I thought I'd check in with y'all for ideas.   Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.   Many thanks, -greg homza bloomington, IN      
(back) Subject: Re: console layouts on the web? From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:57:54 EST   Dear Greg:   Not enough information for starters. Is this and English, French or American set up with drawknobs, two rows straight up, or a terraced design? Are there going to be a great many stops, or is this a compact design.   As a personal preference, I like the music rack as low as possible and I'm tall. I'd like the music rack sitting on top of Manual III. Tabs and rockers are the easiest to put on and take off in a hurry. Drawknobs much more elegant in a terraced design. I like couplers in a convenient location, but not above the top manual and below the music rack. Unison and octave and sub octave couplers could be pistons on the various manuals on the far right. You may not agree for some reason, but it rids the console of space consumming clutter and puts all the couplers for the various manuals all on the same side. Press on press off lighted. On top of that I like multiple memories for General and manual pistons, and might as well go all the way with plus and minus pistons. If rockers, I like them wide and meaty so you can read the stop names quickly. I like the idea of lightred pistons so you know for sure where you are in a sequence. I like an O piston to return to an original hand set up on each division. I like name board cancels, Hit Great it cancels, hit Swell it cancels. Did I leave anything out? Please feel free to add them in. Oh yes, a lighted stage cresc and lighted stage swells. Programable Sfz.'s and Cresc.'s. That should give you a general idea.   Ron Severin    
(back) Subject: Console Rebuilding From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:15:07 -0500       ---- Original message ---- >Subject: Console Rebuilding >From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>   Beau, My recommendation is to look at the situation very creatively and see what can be done with choir location, console location, etc., without making any architectural changes.   As Seb mentioned, a good organ builder can refurbish the console to modernize it so that it is moveable/useable and can still receive the blessings of OHS. It would, of course, be optimal to save the console in original configuration but that is, unfortunately, not always possible. We must do what we can to keep the organ in use.   Another possibility would be to find a used console that could be refurbished and placed in a more optimalposition while saving the original console (if it is, indeed, a "collector's item.") for later restoration or preservation.   However, making large-scale changes in the architecture of the building is very VERY risky and seldom successful unless a great deal of money is expended. It is very important to remember that attendance (choir size, etc) is cyclical. You may have a large choir now, but some time in the future, there will again be a small choir. Be creative and try not to be bound by tradition when you're needing to depart from it! Good luck. Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow...   Bruce and the Baskerbeagles http://baskerbeagles.com a great way to shop http://www.smartmall.biz?717886 HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and = http://pets.care2.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Church: full-time or part time? From: "Justin Terrell" <btone@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:59:11 -0800 (PST)   In my experience as a current part-time minister of music (not playing organ). It is a hassle to have two separate positions. If I could be full-time and do the responsibilities of the organist and minister of music as one, then I feel the music program would be much better. I would not have to worry about the organist learning the parts for choral anthems, or getting me their music to be turned in for the program (prelude, postlude). In rehearsal I would be able to use time more efficiently, not having to wait for my accompanist to find the place in their music. I would be able to devote as much time as I needed into the music program at the church and helping it to grow. Right now I am stuck in a rut because I can only spend a few ours a week on the music program outside of the service and rehearsal with the choir. So I would have to say stick with the full-time organist/choirmaster.     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/