PipeChat Digest #4148 - Wednesday, December 10, 2003
 
Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es>
Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by "James R McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com>
Organ recommendation - private reply
  by "John Jarvis" <JLJarvis@comcast.net>
John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
console rebuilding
  by "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net>
New effects on organs, was Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: Consoles:  English or Terrace?
  by <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com>
Re: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
RE: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
Re: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Service-playing course (?)
  by "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: "Peter Rodwell" <iof@ctv.es> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:28:14 +0100   Quoting Sebastian:   > Aside from the (un/anti-) historical implications of this proposal, = the > musicological argument was also taken into consideration. Such a system = would > enable organists to use the instrument quite unidiomatically, in ways it = was > never intended to be used.   While not disagreeing in any way with the rest of Sebastian's posting, I wonder if this is necessarily a Bad Thing? Perhaps we should encourage the exploration of the instrument and the discovery of new uses/techniques (although not by butchering historical instruments to do so).   I am reminded of the sleeve notes from the CD "Spheres" by Keith Jarrett (ECM Records, ECM 1302 827 463-2), recorded in 1976 on the 18th century "Trinity organ" at Ottobeuren Abbey, Germany (Karl Joeseph Riepp).   I quote:   "Many of the unique effects, although never before used, were accomplished by pulling certain stops part way, while others remain completely open or closed. Amazingly, baroque organs have always had this capability."   [Pause while everyone recovers from their amazement]   The results are not to my personal musical tastes but I find it interesting that a contemporary musician has taken the trouble to explore the organ and discover new ways of playing it.   I would also recommend "Organum" by Peter Michael Hamel (Kuckuck CD 074) as another - less extreme - example of what a contemporary musician can do with a pipe organ, in this case that of the Academy of Music in Munich.   Just my 2 euros' worth.   Peter.  
(back) Subject: Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:31:57 EST   In a message dated 12/10/2003 4:29:06 AM Central Standard Time, iof@ctv.es =   writes: "Many of the unique effects, although never before used, were accomplished by pulling certain stops part way, while others remain completely open or closed. Amazingly, baroque organs have always had this capability." LOL-thats a technique that i tried using to make a celeste sound on the martin ott tracker at my undergrad university. it doesn't work very well! greg               Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:46:04 -0600   This is the technique we used on the small Flentrop at my undergrad school to get a celeste sound and it worked beautifully. Two 8s with one pulled only about 2/3 out - like buttah...   Margo   Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/10/2003 4:29:06 AM Central Standard Time, > iof@ctv.es writes: > > "Many of the unique effects, although never before used, were > accomplished by pulling certain stops part way, while others > remain completely open or closed. Amazingly, baroque organs > have always had this capability." > > LOL-thats a technique that i tried using to make a celeste sound on the > martin ott tracker at my undergrad university. it doesn't work very = well! > greg > > > > > > > > Gregory Ceurvorst > M.M. Organ Performance Student > Northwestern University > Director of Music and Organist > St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL > 847.332.2788 home > 708.243.2549 mobile > gfc234@aol.com <http://gfc234@aol.com/>      
(back) Subject: Re: Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: "James R McFarland" <mcfarland6@juno.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:07:24 -0500       Dear List:   With no intent to get wrapped up in what could be another thread developing here . . . .   About 20 years ago, we restored a one manual and pedal Tannenberg Organ. It was built in 1787 for Tannenberg's own church, Lititz Moravian. The restoration was rather extensive as about half of the instrument was burned in storage -the other half was stored elsewhere.   One charred rib of the bellows remained. By studying other Tannenberg organs, Moravian documents and archives, and the Sorge treatise on organ building that Tannenberg used, we were able to replicate the bellows.   Installed in the attic above the organ, the bellows sit side by side as two multi-rise, cuneiform feeders. There is no reservoir. It is the pumper's job to be sure that one of these bellows is "falling" at all times. This is accomplished from the gallery floor, standing beside the organ, pulling ropes that go up through the ceiling and lift each feeder.   We discovered the most gorgeous tremolo I'll ever hear on this wind system. With both bellows falling, one need only use two fingers, slightly pulling and releasing one of the ropes. Since the organist, at the detached reversed keydesk, can easily see the pumper, we have an example of an 18th century tremolo - adjustable from the console!       Jim         On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:46:04 -0600 Margo Dillard <dillardm@airmail.net> writes: > This is the technique we used on the small Flentrop at my undergrad > school to get a celeste sound and it worked beautifully. Two 8s > with > one pulled only about 2/3 out - like buttah... > > Margo > > Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/10/2003 4:29:06 AM Central Standard Time, > > iof@ctv.es writes: > > > > "Many of the unique effects, although never before used, were > > accomplished by pulling certain stops part way, while others > > remain completely open or closed. Amazingly, baroque organs > > have always had this capability." > > > > LOL-thats a technique that i tried using to make a celeste sound > on the > > martin ott tracker at my undergrad university. it doesn't work > very well! > > greg             The journey of a thousand miles sometimes ends very, very badly.  
(back) Subject: Organ recommendation - private reply From: "John Jarvis" <JLJarvis@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:27:12 -0800   I don't mean to stir up the Digital Organ vs. Pipe Organ conversation = again. Nor do I want to start up the my toaster is better than your toaster = talk. However, I would appreciate any comments in a private reply about the = type of practice organ that you have in your home and what you would = recommend. I have dreamed of an AGO organ in my home for several years and finally = find myself in a place to purchase one. I don't want to make a mistake as = the last organ was a costly mistake. Thanks in advance for your replies to JLJarvis@comcast.net   Happy Holidays!   JJ      
(back) Subject: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:32:09 -0600   John Scott from St. Paul's Cathedral, London has been appointed to fill Gerre Hancock's position at St. Thomas, NYC.   http://www.saintthomaschurch.org/ScottAnnounce.html   David  
(back) Subject: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:30:04 -0500     >Larry Wheelock writes: > >> This is a plea -- whenever you can -- in rehearsal or service -- get your butt off that bench and really conduct the choir. It can make a real difference.   This is quite true. The best directors I've sung for have taught much of our music unaccompanied. Amateur, non-reading choristers learned to be secure in singing the right notes, rather than simply matching with the piano. Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow...   Bruce and the Baskerbeagles http://baskerbeagles.com a great way to shop http://www.smartmall.biz?717886 HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and = http://pets.care2.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:07:51 -0500   Amazingly, the comments below come from the man who had promised to bring three Beagles, trained in the art of Bel Canto to an extent even greater than that which comes naturally to them, to the OHS Convention last = summer, where they were to thrill us all with their rendition of the Mendelssohn "Lift Thine Eyes." Perhaps next summer in Buffalo, the Beagles might be = able to finally do this for us. For goodness sakes, Bruce, just teach them away from the piano!   Haruffaroo (Why can't my dogs say that?) and all that stuff,   Malcolm - who owns a dog who is part wolf. Now, there's a singer! We just had a full moon.     ----- Original Message ----- From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Consoles: English or Terrace?     > > >Larry Wheelock writes: > > > >> This is a plea -- whenever you can -- in rehearsal or > service -- get your butt off that bench and really conduct > the choir. It can make a real difference. > > This is quite true. The best directors I've sung for have > taught much of our music unaccompanied. Amateur, non-reading > choristers learned to be secure in singing the right notes, > rather than simply matching with the piano. > Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow... > > Bruce and the Baskerbeagles http://baskerbeagles.com      
(back) Subject: console rebuilding From: "terry hicks" <Terrick@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:36:10 -0600 (CST)   I know of a builder who was rejuvenating an untouched Skinner that was a modest 3-manual, and he was debating whether to replace the console guts. I don't know what he ended up doing, but one thought he had was to take out the mechanism and save it if people wanted to study it in the future. There apparently was a desire to have memory levels, etc., which could not be done with the original stuff.    
(back) Subject: New effects on organs, was Pneumatic and Electropneumatic Keydesks From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:41:48 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   > "Many of the unique effects, although never before used, were > accomplished by pulling certain stops part way, while others > remain completely open or closed. Amazingly, baroque organs > have always had this capability."   I used this trick on our Kleuker. It's only possible on organs with slider chests and mechanical stop action (no slider motors). The effects are = really unique. The pipes in the rank start to sound unequal because they work on = a reduced wind supply and the wind stream is deviated due to the fact that = the hole of a half closed slider is a) oval, not round, b) it's one-sided.   The organ of St Sebald in Nurnberg, DE (built by Willi Peter, Cologne 1973-1976; III/72 + choir organ) is provided with a special valve which makes possible for the organist to alter the wind pressure and create special effects...   And there still are people who say that an old dog cannot do new tricks. = LOL   Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.          
(back) Subject: Re: Consoles: English or Terrace? From: <hydrant@baskerbeagles.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:25:00 -0500   The Baskerbeagles send their most sincere regrets for missing the OHS convention last summer, but they were dutifully engaged in seminars at the annual Beagle Convocation in Beagledor, Canada (formerly Labrador!!--it was a tough battle, but worth it!!). Miles did win out had the Mendelssohn altered to "Lift Thine Legs". Molly's protests were over-ruled.   We enjoyed the full moon last couple of days and have enjoyed acapella renderings from our Muttastery gallery.   By the way, the new Muttastery organ/howling machine in the Chapel of All Hounds has traditional semi-English stop layout.   Beagles try to stay away from the piano because of the dreaded "piano monster" (aka K*tt*n on the Keys) snrk snrk   >Haruffaroo (Why can't my dogs say that?) and all that stuff, >   You need to expose them to Mystery Science Theatre 2000. Haruffaroo bahawow is from the infamous Godzilla episode!! That's the Japanese translation. Scritchies and Haruffaroo-bahawow...   Bruce and the Baskerbeagles http://baskerbeagles.com a great way to shop http://www.smartmall.biz?717886 HELP FEED ANIMALS FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and = http://pets.care2.com  
(back) Subject: Re: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:07:32 EST   Mr. Scott is certainly a fine musician, so I don't mean to discredit him = in anyway, but...   the Good Ole Boy Club has struck again.   NB    
(back) Subject: RE: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:46:14 -0500   > the Good Ole Boy Club has struck again.   I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.   But whatever you do mean, I wouldn't object if it is the case. Saint = Thomas has not only the finest church choir in the United States, but = our only remaining ecclesiastical residential choir school. Despite = everyone's best efforts, its long-term survival remains less than = assured. This is not the situation with which to gamble with wild = cards.          
(back) Subject: Re: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:00:37 -0500   And, further to Paul Emmons' remarks, to meet John Scott, as many of us = have done, is to know that this is NOT the "Good Ole Boy Club" in = action. John grew up and was a chorister in Wakefield, West Yorkshire. I = spent many summers there, know the marvellous and ancient cathedral, and = also know the choirmaster and some of the choir people. I set up a = 12-concert tour of the U.S. Northeast for them some years ago, and not = only did the singers thrill everyone musically, but they also charmed = everyone to death with their wonderful down-to-earth Yorkshire ways. I = made them a deal, that I would organize concerts for them at their = asking fee, and I have now forgotten what that was, but something like = $3,000, in return for which they would pay me a fee of $00.00 but sing a = Saturday evening concert and the Sunday Eucharist in my church. They = stayed with members of the parish. None of us will likely ever forget = that weekend. As you will see in the pictures to which I will direct = you, after the concert, some of the accompanying parents manned a little = table on which to sell various souvenirs of Wakefield. One of those was = a beautiful soft cover book containing a large number of anthems by = Jonathan Bielby, the choirmaster, a book produced by the choir in honor = of his 25th anniversary at the cathedral. We sing quite a few of them. = It contains beautiful pen & ink drawings of features of the cathedral, = drawn by John Thorpe, City Architect, and my good friend. I stayed with = him and his family over many summers. This is where John Scott grew up, = and there really is no Old Boy about it. These people are wonderful = people who have no pretensions to anything, even though they well could. = John Scott is just like that. As you will know from recordings, he is a = superb Organist, and you may know also that he is a terrific choir = trainer. In both Organ recitals and in the work of the choir, he is = imaginative in his choice of repertoire. What has been going on at St. = Paul's during his tenure is nothing short of miraculous. [Here is the = URL for our church website, where, by clicking on Scrap Book, you can = see a few pictures from the Wakefield visit in 1995.] = http://home.earthlink.net/~trinity06903 =20   Now, very important: When I first went to Canada in 1966, to take a = cathedral post for the first time (London, Ontario), one of my great = sources of encouragement and help was the late Norman Hurrle, = Organist/Choirmaster at St. James' Cathedral, Toronto. I drove the 120 = miles each way to Toronto once a week, faithfully, to attend his = rehearsals, and learned an enormous amount from him. We went to dinner = one night after rehearsal, and I could tell he had something important = to say. It was this: "Malcolm, keep up the good work. Maintain your = Organ-playing, slave over the training of the choir, constantly be on = the lookout for new directions in which to take them, and as the program = gets better and better, set aside at least a quarter portion of your = work to do whatever it takes to protect what you and your choir together = have created . . . because, the better it gets, the more people there = will be who want to tear it down, for no other reason than its = excellence. This seems sometimes to be the way of the world. Always be = vigilant."=20   No "Good Ole Boy Club" has been responsible for John Scott's = appointment. It is sheer excellence that has done it, along with the = ability of the rector and others at St. Thomas' to recognize it for what = it is.=20   Gerre has done it for many years with tremendous distinction. I look = forward to the future with John Scott at the helm.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Innkawgneeto@cs.com=20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: Re: John Scott is appointed Gerre Hancock's successor     Mr. Scott is certainly a fine musician, so I don't mean to discredit = him in anyway, but...   the Good Ole Boy Club has struck again.   NB  
(back) Subject: Service-playing course (?) From: "Emmons, Paul" <PEMMONS@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:17:19 -0500   A debate is ongoing in tabletalk.salon.com (for anyone interested, = specifically in the "White House" division and the long thread "W's = Theocracy") over the case of a young Assemblyman of God (or whatever = they call their members aside from "holy rollers") who has been awarded = a scholarship for graduate study by the State of Washington. When he = tried to use it at Northwest College to prepare for the ministry, the = state took it away from him, claiming that it constituted a subsidy of = organized religion that the state constitution prohibited. So the smart = little cookie decided to go to Harvard Law School instead, probably = saying to himself "then I'll show them!..." Next stop, I suppose, will = be Ashcroft's desk. I supposed that a devout fundie is liable to be = more threatening to freethinkers as a lawyer than if they'd just let him = become a clergyman.=20   Nevertheless, the atheists in this discussion, of course, approve and = applaud. I'm not fond of his tradition myself, but am taking the = position that no clear and equitable line can be drawn for such a = purpose between acceptable and unacceptable courses of study. It would = be relatively easy to say "you can't use this scholarship to go to = seminary," but this would discriminate against denominations whose = seminaries tend to be separate institutions. And anyway, Northwest = College itself is not a seminary. =20   At one point someone said that she doesn't want her tax dollars going to = train ministers either ordained or unordained. I pointed out that this = distinction would prohibit devout Christians from being supported in = studying to prepare for *any* occupation at all, because we can see any = vocation as a ministry. I asked if study at a secretarial school would = become out of bounds to any candidate just because she had announced = that she was dreaming of becoming a *church* secretary. People laughed = and said of course not.   As you here can well guess, but probably unforeseen by my opponents, I = had deliberately introduced this "absurd" example prior to bringing up = our own ambiguous status and wondering how our aspiring successors = whould fare under this strange law. I explained that almost every organ = student wishes and expects to play in church. Furthermore, in theory-- = or in our dreams-- we can make important decisions on the job that = require theological and specialized liturgical knowledge, and we are = definitely into "religious indoctrination". On the other hand, in = practice we often have no more dignity or scope for initiative in the = organization than a secretary. We just push organ keys instead of = typewriter keys. So is our preparation acceptable like secretarial = school, or unacceptable like seminary? =20   The response to this was that if someone wants to study ORGAN, fine, = study ORGAN and be our guest, but just don't expect to be subsidized for = studying "how to be an organist in a [insert religion here] church." = Can'tcha tell the difference? I replied with a sigh that I'd probably = lose the scholarship because I had taken a two-term class called = "Service playing"-- which for all I can remember might have been = *required* of organ majors at Lawrence, an officially (however = nominally) Methodist university, even though it was actually taught by a = Roman Catholic. Beats me how a legal eagle can distinguish this from = studying homiletics at an officially (and probably enthusiastically) = Assembly of God university. Before rolling themselves up into a ball, = the atheists advised that one would probably need to seek alternate = funding for that single course.   I might not be quite done with them yet, however, depending on the = results of a little survey I'd like to conduct here. If you studied = organ in a public college or university, did you specifically learn = service playing there? If so, how? Was it in the course of private = lessons, or in a specific course? If an organ major at a public = colleges studies service playing, then their waters would be further = muddied, wouldn't they? It wouldn't be a very comfortable position to = expect a state scholarship committee categorically to refuse a student = certain courses taught in the state's own institutions.   How we learn to play services should be an interesting, and probably oft = amusing, matter to talk about anyway.