PipeChat Digest #4161 - Thursday, December 18, 2003
 
Re: Is Anglican chant becoming a dead art?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Is Anglican chant becoming a dead art?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Another Daniel song
  by "Jeff Knibbe" <knibbeje@yahoo.com>
Re: Is Anglican chant becoming a dead art?
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG)
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk>
SCHU(L)KE
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE: SCHU(L)KE
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com>
Re: Anglican Chant
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: Blundering in ....
  by <MFoxy9795@aol.com>
Re: Blundering in ....
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Is Anglican chant becoming a dead art? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:55:24 -0500   On 12/17/03 1:45 PM, "bruce.shaw@shaw.ca" <bruce.shaw@shaw.ca> wrote:   > there is no service which has the Psalms as part of the liturgy.   Bruce, you are surely (mostly) right about the history on this.   Story: I attended Luther Theological Seminary in St. Paul. In probably 1957 we had a guest preacher at Matins (our daily morning prayer service). At that time, Martins and Vespers was heavily Anglican chant in our = circles.   Guest preacher was the Rt. Rev. James Pike, of Grace Church, San = Francisco. He began by expressing his condolences for the evident fact that we were saddled by the same curse as his own cathedral: Anglican chant.   BUT: What does the current Anglican mass have between the first two readings? We have a fair-sized chunk of psalmody. It can be sung to Gregorian, or Ambrosian, or Gelineau, or whatever. Could not Anglican = chant be used there, and thus be preserved for the bulk of the parish's familiarity?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Is Anglican chant becoming a dead art? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:00:38 -0500   On 12/17/03 2:03 PM, "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> = wrote:   > I've always thought it was supposed to be between the Old Testament and = Gospel > readings.   Beau: In most rites today, I think, following the First (O.T., usually) Reading, before the Second (typically Epistle) Reading--which is then followed by the (Alleluia) Verse, which introduces the Gospel.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Another Daniel song From: "Jeff Knibbe" <knibbeje@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:09:20 -0800 (PST)   Regards: I guess one would call me a lurker. I enjoyed DQ Bellamy's post about the songs and history behind the Biblical prophet Daniel. I couldn't help but wonder if other posters have heard of the children's song containing one verse set to the tune of "Jesus, Keep Me Near the Cross" that has become a favorite of all preschool aged children in my church community:   Daniel was a man of prayer, Daily prayed he three times, Till one day they had him cast, In a den of lions, Even then, In the den, Fears could not alarm him, God just shut the lions mouths, So they could not harm him.   It tells the story beautifully and the kids learn the words so quickly. the kids learn to sing the word 'shut' accented and a bit shorter than the other notes to emphasize it.   I also found that playing in Eflat major or E major suits the younger folks voice range better than the usual hymnal key of F or G major.   Wishing Holiday Blessings, Jeff Knibbe, M.D.   __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Is Anglican chant becoming a dead art? From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:11:14 -0600   woops!! I meant the Old Testament and the Epistle Reading! Sorry about that. Thanks for the correction!     Blessings, Beau      
(back) Subject: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG) From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:16:29 -0800   First, a very short canned history:   Most of the Anglicans in the Colonies were Royalists, and fled back to England at the Revolution. So the Anglican church in America had to be re-established from scratch after the Revolution. The first General Convention wasn't held until 1786 ... the Prayer Book had to be revised, as prayers for the Royal Family were still required by canon law.   Colonial Anglicanism at its BEST was some of the WORST of "The Indifferent Years" (1662-1825) ... only metrical Psalms were sung, without accompaniment; the congregation SAT through the entire service; Holy Communion was observed on "sacrament Sundays" about four times a = year.   The Colonies were nominally under the Bishop of London, and the Church of England refused to send out a Bishop or consecrate a Bishop for America ... the first American Bishop, Samuel Seabury, was consecrated by the Scottish Episcopal Church ... consecration by the Church of England required an oath of fealty to the British Crown, something an American Bishop obviously wouldn't DO. In the meantime, generations grew up and died without ever receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation; no priests or deacons were ordained ... what few there were had to come from England or British Canada.   There was no tradition of collegiate or cathedral choral foundations, or the regular singing of daily Morning and Evening Prayer ... when Trinity Church, Wall Street in New York City introduced the first surpliced choir of men and boys in the chancel, there were "anti-popery" riots.   The Oxford Movement reached America in the 1850s ... that's when most of the great anglo-catholic shrine churches were founded: St. Mary the Virgin, NYC; The Advent, Boston; St. Clement's, Philadelphia, etc. The Oxford Movement brought with it the choral service, sung by surpliced choirs of men and boys, and indeed most of those churches did (and do) have Evensong regularly. But the focus WAS on the sung Communion Service, called "High Mass" or "Solemn Mass."   For some reason, Anglican Chant was regarded with some distaste as "low-church" or "protty" ("protestant") ... anglo-catholic churches who sang Morning and Evening Prayer used plainsong for the Psalms almost exclusively, embellished on occasion with fauxbourdons from booklets such as Francis Burgess "Tenor Tonale."   For THEIR part, the low churches were having NONE of singing the Psalms, to Anglican Chant or anything ELSE ... the motto was "NO POPERY *HERE*!" (grin). I never quite understood why it was OK to sing the CANTICLES at Morning Prayer to Anglican Chant (they're mostly Psalms), but not the Psalms of the Day.   Various Prayer Books provided in the rubrics for the singing of Psalms at the usual places in the Eucharist ... entrance, between the readings, offertory, communion ... the first Prayer Book of 1549 even provided a table of Introit Psalms ... and as early as 1928 the Prayer Book marked a "starred" Psalm and Old Testament Lesson in the Sunday Lectionary which related to the Epistle and Gospel, for those churches who wanted to add an Old Testament Lesson and a Psalm to the Eucharist. However, I NEVER recall this being done until the liturgical reforms of the 1960s.   The anglo-catholic churches sang the "Propers" (short snippets of Psalms) -- Introit, Gradual, Alleluia, Offertory, and Communion -- but they sang them either to the proper florid Gregorian melodies in English (or sometimes Latin), or to plainsong psalm-tones.   Anglican Chant never really had a chance (grin).   My last post was a new church, with a minimum of historical prejudices. I freely mixed Anglican Chant, plainsong psalm-tones, and fauxbourdons. We sang at LEAST one CONGREGATIONAL Psalm at EVERY Mass ... men and women antiphonally, choir and congregation antiphonally, or (occasionally) everybody all together.   I WOULD make this point: I wrote EVERYTHING out in NOTES, verse by verse .... the melody line with words underlaid for the people, and the full harmonies for the choir. I included the notes AND the pointing; after a couple of years, the people could sing from just the pointing. I still found it saved rehearsal time to write out the harmonies verse by verse for the choir ... that also allowed me to put in dynamics, accents, etc., rather than having to dictate them for the choir to write into their Psalters.   I simply REFUSE to spend rehearsal time wrestling with pointing ... I can read it; most American choristers CAN'T, anymore; I haven't found a Psalter yet that I AGREE with (grin); and if you're in a situation where you have extra singer come in and help out on big days, they haven't a CLUE what to do with pointing. Writing it out goes VERY fast with Sibelius, and I can extract the congregational part with a couple of button-pushes.   I adopted a very primitive system of pointing ... the marks mean the same thing in both Anglican and plainsong psalmody ... so the congregation only had to learn one system: basically an underline on the syllable where one leaves the reciting note, a slash for a pause, and a syllable in italics when there's a flex in plainsong psalmody.   I discovered that if I CONSISTENTLY used speech-rhythm (a la King's College) in Anglican chant, it wasn't necessary to bother with all those additional marks that indicate which syllables go to which notes ... the choir had the written-out harmonies anyway ... the congregation would instinctively "do the right thing" if the stressed syllables were correctly distributed in the mediation and the cadence. Having the choir to lead was all they basically needed. Most of the time I'd have the choir sing the congregation's verses WITH THEM, but in UNISON; then the choir would sing alternate verses ALONE, in HARMONY.   We had weekly Evensong WITHOUT a choir, in addition to the psalmody at Sunday Mass. The congregation SEEMED to prefer the plainsong psalmody at Evensong, which was done with one or two chanters alternating with the whole congregation.   Or, on those occasions when the choir WAS present for Solemn Evensong:   men of the choir and congregation choir alone (SATB fauxbourdon) women of the choir and congregation choir alone (SATB fauxbourdon)   That was QUITE a sound when the church was full, as it often was during Lent.   It takes two things to establish psalm-chanting: perseverance, and the unswerving support of the Rector.   For three years, wherever two or three were gathered together, we practiced chanting (chuckle). I went to Altar Guild meetings; I went to St. Mary's Guild meetings; I went to St. Andrew's Brotherhood meetings; I went to ushers' meetings. We had rehearsals BEFORE Mass; we had rehearsals AFTER Mass; we had rehearsals BEFORE Evensong; we had rehearsals AFTER Evensong.   It got to be a running joke:   "Uh oh! Here comes Bud! We gotta practice psalm-singing!"   But it worked. After about three years, they could sing just about anything I put in front of them with notes, and not just psalms.   Another point: I'm rather fond of CONGREGATIONAL psalm-singing, whether to Anglican chant or plainsong.   Some liturgists argue that psalm-singing should be a CHORAL endeavour, and indeed those King's College recordings are lovely, BUT ... a collegiate or cathedral choir has a different FUNCTION than a parish choir ... collegiate and cathedral choirs are SUPPOSED to sing the Office ON BEHALF OF the (usually absent) College and Faculty or Cathedral Chapter, both by statute and by stipend ... that's why they're CALLED "vicars choral" ... they're the PAID SUBSTITUTES for the lay-about faculty and Chapter (chuckle), who in earlier times couldn't be bothered with singing Office in those dreadfully drafty old chapels and abbeys (grin).   PARISH worship, on the other hand, should be PARTICIPATORY worship, at least to a certain degree.   Our chanting at St. Matthew's wasn't polished, but everybody did the same thing at approximately the same time, and with the excellent acoustics (another prerequisite for ANY kind of good chanting) and ... um ... sensitive accompaniments (grin ... well, I've only been DOING this for FIFTY years), we managed to pull it off in grand style most of the time.   The sound of 100 + people chanting a psalm in a good room is not soon to be forgotten.   I think it had been at least four years since choir or congregation actually broke down and had to stop and start again in the chanting of a psalm ... not bad for amateurs/volunteers.   If anyone wants help on how to prepare congregational or choral materials for singing the Psalms, I have a lot in the computer, and it's not a lot of work to set others as needed.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: "John Foss" <harfo32@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:18:30 +0000 (GMT)   Beau Surratt wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions for teaching a Non-Anglican choir to sing Anglican Chant?   Dear Beau et al., May I respectfully suggest you start with the words and see where the stress lies in the verses? Don't overdo it - subtlety is the keynote. Perhaps you could play some to them - there is a set available recorded by various Anglican Cathedral Choirs http://www.gothicrecords.com/anglicanchant.html Try and get them to appreciate the meaning of each verse. Alternatively you might try plainchant - possibly a more natural way of expressing the words. But this, I am sure, is open to discussion. John Foss   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D www.johnfoss.gr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orgofftop/ Topics of the week : Opera Censorship and the right to silence   ________________________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save =A380 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer = ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. = http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D21064/*http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk  
(back) Subject: SCHU(L)KE From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:11:34 EST   Are we talking about Karl Schuke of Potsdam and Berlin? He was born in = 1906, so I do not know if he has joined The Choirs Invisible, or is still = amongst us, in retirement.   The Prussian-American organbuilder Wilhelm Schuelke died in 1914, and frankly, seems to have produced very little work since his passing. He is = notorious for not answering emails.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: RE: SCHU(L)KE From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:12:01 -0600   Nah, just a couple of innocent spelling mistakes. We're talkin' of Schukes -- Berlin and Potsdam -- somehow related but not the same firm.   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of TubaMagna@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:12 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: SCHU(L)KE   Are we talking about Karl Schuke of Potsdam and Berlin? He was born in 1906,=20 so I do not know if he has joined The Choirs Invisible, or is still amongst=20 us, in retirement.   The Prussian-American organbuilder Wilhelm Schuelke died in 1914, and=20 frankly, seems to have produced very little work since his passing. He is notorious=20 for not answering emails.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG) From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:10:42 -0600   Bud wrote, in part:   > Colonial Anglicanism at its BEST was some of the WORST of "The > Indifferent Years" (1662-1825) ... only metrical Psalms were sung, > without accompaniment;   and I can say with some authority that this is not universally accurate, just having acquired a copy of the facsimile of Jacob Eckhardts Choirbook of 1809. Eckerdt was choirmaster at a parish in Richmond VA, and Charleston, SC, and assembled a book containing a number of other settings of the Psalms and canticles, including a number (OK, a small number, about a couple dozen) chants, some of which are the typical 4 + 6 Anglican Chant version (including a double chant) and some of which have slightly different forms.   I don't mean to suggest that this was universal, but at least in some places, it was not quite as, er unappealing as Bud suggests, either.   ns    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG) From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:08:42 -0800   OK, but look at your dates, Noel ... the Eckhardts Choirbook of 1809 comes at the END of the "Indifferent Years".   The Assizes Sermons which launched the Oxford Movement were preached in June of 1825, I believe ... and there were stirrings of liturgical and musical reform before that.   If you go dig through "Music for the Nation", which is even LATER, you'll find lots of "fun" stuff, but precious little that's up to the level of Boyce's Cathedral Music, for instance.   I'm certainly willing to be corrected, but as far as I know, Trinity Wall Street was the first thing RESEMBLING a British choral foundation in this country, and the present church was consecrated on Ascension Day, 1846 ... I don't have the complete history of Trinity at hand, but Edward Hodges was Organist from 1846 until 1859, and he is generally credited with establishing choral services on the "cathedral model" in the Anglican Church in this country.   I have no doubt that some of the old Royal Foundation parishes in the South could indeed mount respectable programs, but my point (if indeed I have one) is that they don't seem to have had any lasting effect upon the formation of Anglican church music in the New World, whereas Trinity managed to impose the British cathedral model almost single-handedly (at least in the city churches of the North).   The Brattle Organ dates from 1708, but as we all know, it wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms (chuckle). Thomas Appleton was active as an organ-builder by 1812 ... I don't recall offhand what was going on in American organ-building from 1708 till 1812, but I'd imagine organs in Anglican churches (the ones that had them, anyway) were small and built along contemporary British lines.   It wasn't until the tempestuous collaboration of Erben and Hodges at Trinity in 1846 that we have an organ of some size in an American Anglican Church, if I'm not mistaken. Given that, isn't it likely that most earlier choral establishments were more along the lines of the old west gallery choirs?   Cheers,   Bud   Noel Stoutenburg wrote:   > Bud wrote, in part: > >> Colonial Anglicanism at its BEST was some of the WORST of "The >> Indifferent Years" (1662-1825) ... only metrical Psalms were sung, >> without accompaniment; > > > and I can say with some authority that this is not universally accurate, =   > just having acquired a copy of the facsimile of Jacob Eckhardts > Choirbook of 1809. Eckerdt was choirmaster at a parish in Richmond VA, > and Charleston, SC, and assembled a book containing a number of other > settings of the Psalms and canticles, including a number (OK, a small > number, about a couple dozen) chants, some of which are the typical 4 + > 6 Anglican Chant version (including a double chant) and some of which > have slightly different forms. > I don't mean to suggest that this was universal, but at least in some > places, it was not quite as, er unappealing as Bud suggests, either. > > ns > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:05:50 -0600   > Beau Surratt wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions for teaching a > Non-Anglican choir to sing Anglican Chant?   Our choir, although Anglican, had very little experience of singing = Anglican chant until about five years ago. The one or two of us who did were able = to lead the others. I think there is no substitute for demonstrating how to = do it. If you know how to do it youself, demonstrate how to do it to them by singing each verse through yourself and then getting them to do it.   John Speller, St. Mark's, St. louis.      
(back) Subject: Re: Anglican Chant From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:27:46 -0800   I think it depends on your circumstances ... given a commuter parish with a very heavy schedule of services and a volunteer choir, I found it more profitable time-wise to write out EXACTLY what I wanted, hand it out, run through it once, and then DO it in service.   If, on the other hand, you're about establishing a real choral foundation that sings at least Evensong on a weekly or daily basis, then yes, you ARE probably going to have to teach your choir to read pointing, and settle on a Psalter, which is no mean feat.   I couldn't ABIDE most of them BEFORE the new American Prayer Book came out; I can't imagine that the new Psalter text coupled with the style of pointing used for the canticles in the new Hymnal could produce anything above the level of a "detestible enormity" (chuckle).   The recitation of the Psalter divides into poetic "feet" of two beats or three beats ... uncover THAT, MARK it, and teach your choir to recognize the gentle stresses that act as "springboards" to carry the energy of the recitation from downbeat to downbeat, and it only remains to put the harmonies to the words. If I'm teaching the psalter THAT way, I generally begin with reciting the words without note, but with the slight stresses; then I have the choir chant the words in unison on a monotone; THEN I have then sing the Anglican chant until they have it memorized, WITHOUT words, and finally we put the whole thing together.   But, as I said, it's a WHOLE lot easier just to WRITE IT OUT (chuckle).   If I'm not mistaken, the tradition is carried forward in the UK just as John describes it ... in most places, it falls to the Head Boy to be the repository of the tradition; he then teaches it to the rest of the trebles; the men, of course, being mostly Old Boys, already have it in their heads.   Cheers,   Bud   John L. Speller wrote:   >>Beau Surratt wrote: >>Does anyone have any suggestions for teaching a >>Non-Anglican choir to sing Anglican Chant? > > > Our choir, although Anglican, had very little experience of singing = Anglican > chant until about five years ago. The one or two of us who did were = able to > lead the others. I think there is no substitute for demonstrating how = to do > it. If you know how to do it youself, demonstrate how to do it to them = by > singing each verse through yourself and then getting them to do it. > > John Speller, > St. Mark's, St. louis. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Blundering in .... From: <MFoxy9795@aol.com> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:46:08 -0500   There used to be signs up all over the sides of buildings in England = saying TAKE COURAGE with a silhouette of a rooster. Most foreigners did = not know it was referring to a beer!   Merry Foxworth   =B4=A8=A8)) -:=A6:- =B8.=B7=B4 .=B7=B4=A8=A8)) ((=B8=B8.=B7=B4 ..=B7=B4 -:=A6:-   An excerpt from Robert Giddings "Musical Quotes and Anecdotes", published in Longman Pocket Companions: "There let the pealing organ blow, To the full-voiced choir below, In service high, and anthems clear, As may with sweetness, through mine ear, Dissolve me into ecstasies, And bring all Heav'n before mine eyes". John Milton - Il Penseroso (1632).   Open Door Realty Boston, MA 02131 617 469-4888 x207 877 865-1703 toll free http://www.opendoorrlty.com/   In a message dated 12/17/2003 9:55:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, = pstorandt@okcu.edu writes:   > In the light of the Courage name, I am always rather amused > at a > temperance hymn in Ira D. Sankey's hymnal "Sacred Songs & Solos", which > begins "Take courage, temperance workers! Ye shall not > suffer loss."  
(back) Subject: Re: Blundering in .... From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:10:24 -0500   On 12/17/03 9:46 PM, "MFoxy9795@aol.com" <MFoxy9795@aol.com> wrote:   > There used to be signs up all over the sides of buildings in England = saying > TAKE COURAGE with a silhouette of a rooster. Most foreigners did not = know it > was referring to a beer! > Now THAT'S very funny, in view of the apparent origin of the line!   Alan (not really much of a beer drinker!)    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC (sorta) -- Anglican Chant, Eucharistic Psalmody, etc. (LONG) From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:51:05 -0600   quilisma@cox.net wrote:   > OK, but look at your dates, Noel ... the Eckhardts Choirbook of 1809 > comes at the END of the "Indifferent Years".   Yes, well, they were a synthesis of what he had used at the parishes he served in Richmond and Charleston over the previous 20 to thirty years. All should know, though, that it is not so much my intent to challenge the overall veracity of your summary, as to provide a bit of breadth.   > If you go dig through "Music for the Nation", which is even LATER, > you'll find lots of "fun" stuff, but precious little that's up to the > level of Boyce's Cathedral Music, for instance.   True enough; however, I would suggest that if you compare what was happening in the "village" churches in Britain at the time Boyce was compiling his "Cathedral music" at St. Paul's London, on the one hand, with what was happening at St. Pauls, one would find a vast difference, as well. I suspect that music in village churches in the UK during the period immediately preceding the Oxford movement was probably quite similar to music in similarly situated parishes in the U.S.   AS far as Eckherd; he was a Hessian, and came to the U.S. as a musician with the mercenaries during the Revolutionary war. It is interesting that like his older contemporary, Pachelbel's son, who also came to the Colonies, Eckhard would up in Charleston, SC.   It's worth noting, too, that the oldest music conservatory in the U.S. (Peabody, Baltimore) is only a bit more than 150 years old, and that Lowell Mason, the prominent Boston musician, was the first musician from the U.S. to gain much acceptance as a musician in Europe.   ns.