PipeChat Digest #4178 - Sunday, December 28, 2003
 
Re: copyright laws
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
electronic choirbooks and music stands
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: X POSTED - Musicom vs. Walker
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages
  by "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com>
Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages
  by "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com>
Re: copyright laws
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
what about Sowerby?
  by "atal" <atal@sympatico.ca>
Re: copyright laws
  by "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net>
Wanamaker on Peter Jennings
  by "John Jarvis" <JLJarvis@comcast.net>
Re: Wanamaker on Peter Jennings
  by <Swedish5702@aol.com>
Re: Wanamaker on Peter Jennings
  by <OrganNYC@aol.com>
Typo
  by <brentmj@charter.net>
Re: X POSTED - Musicom vs. Walker
  by "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net>
Re:      Felix Hell. 2003 in retrospect.
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: Felix Hell. 2003 retrospect
  by "leora holcomb" <leh637@yahoo.com>
Re: copyright laws
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: copyright laws From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:39:03 -0800   Alicia, you have to be careful about making blanket assumptions in those cases.   Everything before 1925 or thereabouts IS in the public domain ... UNLESS the owner of the copyright has RENEWED the copyright. Further, depending on when they renewed it, it may fall unto the old shorter period, or the newer longer period.   As far as hymns, the words MAY in the public domain, but not all. Many late 19th century and early 20th century poets left their copyrights to estate trusts that are still in existence and active.   In addition, MANY texts of well-known hymns are "alt." (altered) with the permission of the trust that holds the copyright; those "alt." versions are often the property of the publisher of the hymnal in = question.   As to hymn TUNES, the MELODIES of most hymns composed up to the late 19th century are PROBABLY in the public domain, but it's likely the HARMONIZATIONS are not. You will find that particularly with Gregorian hymn-tunes ... the melodies, of course, are in the public domain ... most are a thousand years old ... but the ACCOMPANIMENTS are the property of the publisher of the hymnal.   Reharmonizing the accompaniments to melodies in the public domain is one way around THAT particular roadblock (chuckle).   N.B. - do NOT reproduce the Solesmes rhythmic signs in ANY Gregorian melodies. They guard the copyright to THOSE *most* jealously, and do not allow their reproduction, even by other Benedictine houses. Write them out as note values, or make up your own, but DON'T use Solesmes ... they get downright NASTY about it (grin).   In my own Gregorian transcriptions, I have substituted common bowing and articulation marks that ARE found in Sibelius ... they're close ENOUGH to be understandable. If Solesmes doesn't like THAT, let 'em take it up with Sibelius. Sheesh! They even tried to copyright the horizontal dash (chuckle).   Cheers,   Bud       Alicia Zeilenga wrote:   > Jon, > > Just about everything before 1925 is common domain. A lot of times with =   > hymns the words and the tune are common domain but the typeset is not. > At my churches we have typed up the hymn and given that to the > congregation when we didn't have it in the hymnal to avoid problems. > > The following link may help. http://www.cpdl.org/modules.php? > = op=3Dmodload&name=3DSections&file=3Dindex&req=3Dviewarticle&artid=3D1&page= =3D1#SEC7 > > I think that it is actually illegal to use an OCP Music Issue unless the =   > church currently subscribes. Does anyone know? > > Alicia > > >>How long are things covered by copyright? I am just wondering for >>things >>like hymns and stuff. >> >>Jon Kroepel >> >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: electronic choirbooks and music stands From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:46:53 -0800   Singers CAN write in the choirbooks with light-pens. But in general it's easier for the director to do it once for everybody and save it.   As to legibility, it's a toss-up, I think. I'm partially sighted, so I run Sibelius at 150% most of the time, or even 200% if I'm writing 16th and 32nd notes. You can do the same with the choirbooks and stands ... both have either a touch function or a foot-pedal to control scrolling and page turns, so that isn't a problem. You just don't see a whole page at once. It's also possible to show just the vocal bass part and the accompaniment, for instance.   It's coming, one way or the other ... forests and paper are not infinitely renewable resources, unless governments get a LOT more serious about conservation. Hopefully desktop music engraving will drive the cost of printed music down somewhat, but I haven't seen it happen yet.   Cheers,   Bud   Alicia Zeilenga wrote:   > Oh, no! What about my poor eyes that find it MUCH easier to read a > printed page? And where is the fun in being a choir director if one > cannot tell one's choir to WRITE that in the book?!?!?!? > Alicia Zeilenga > > > >>I"M excited about the notebook-size computerized choir folders. If >>they're networked, the conductor can make instant changes and >>corrections. Music can be inserted and deleted electronically, no muss, >>no fuss; there's no great rattling of paper as every singer turns the >>page in a quiet moment of a piece, etc. >> >>Ravenna is introducing computerized music stands this summer ... be >>interesting to see how that works out. >> >>Cheers, >> >>Bud >> >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: X POSTED - Musicom vs. Walker From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:51:34 EST   Walker wins by sound!   The rest is not relevant just as you would choose a PIPE builder.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 16:00:15 -0500   On 12/27/03 3:17 PM, "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com> wrote:   > The Kyrie or "Lord Have Mercy" can be sung in Latin or English depending > upon the likes of the priest and seasons,etc. Most of the time it is = said.   I've never heard the Kyrie done in Latin. Greek, yes. No? > > What we can't do is sing a psalm-based four part hymn at this point. = They have > to be antiphon, verse type. (Oh, I sound so professional.) Always in = English. > Unless you are from a different part of the world.   You mean like Brooklyn? Hymns, chants, and psalms (etc., etc.) are sung = in about two dozen languages in Lutheran congregations in New York City. = (List on request.) In Roman congregations I suspect it may be even more! = (Though we use a few that they may not: Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish, Icelandic, etc.)   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages From: "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:21:06 -0600   I am never told old to learn and have so much to learn. Tina Hemphill And I should know better about the kylie. And the other parts of the world to me..I was thinking Texas, where my children are. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages     > On 12/27/03 3:17 PM, "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com> wrote: > > > The Kyrie or "Lord Have Mercy" can be sung in Latin or English = depending > > upon the likes of the priest and seasons,etc. Most of the time it is said. > > I've never heard the Kyrie done in Latin. Greek, yes. No? > > > > What we can't do is sing a psalm-based four part hymn at this point. They have > > to be antiphon, verse type. (Oh, I sound so professional.) Always in English. > > Unless you are from a different part of the world. > > You mean like Brooklyn? Hymns, chants, and psalms (etc., etc.) are sung in > about two dozen languages in Lutheran congregations in New York City. (List > on request.) In Roman congregations I suspect it may be even more! (Though > we use a few that they may not: Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Danish, > Icelandic, etc.) > > Alan www.stlukesnyc.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: sorta off-topic: RC liturgical rules and usages From: "chemphill" <chemphill@wi.rr.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:24:39 -0600   Replying to myself here. Tina, ever heard of SPELL-CHECK?! -----  
(back) Subject: Re: copyright laws From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 15:59:53 -0600   I'll remember that. (Not that I could ever convince my current choir or congregation to sing anything Gregorian after the last pastor overdid it. Maybe the Victimae Paschale Laudes -or however it is spelled- for Easter...)   > N.B. - do NOT reproduce the Solesmes rhythmic signs in ANY Gregorian > melodies. They guard the copyright to THOSE *most* jealously, and do > not > allow their reproduction, even by other Benedictine houses. Write them > out as note values, or make up your own, but DON'T use Solesmes ... > they > get downright NASTY about it (grin).      
(back) Subject: what about Sowerby? From: "atal" <atal@sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:42:43 -0500   All the talk of copyright laws has certainly been enlightening, but I'm afraid poor old Leo got lost in the shuffle. I'd be interested in hearing = if anyone has played Sowerby's Suite (1935) - the issue which prompted all = the copyright postings - and any comments they'd like to share about this = work. Thanks, Andreas Thiel    
(back) Subject: Re: copyright laws From: "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:18:39 -0500   I'm having a similar problem although it has nothing to do with church music ... so feel free not to read on! But I'm posting just in case someone might have some suggestions for me, I think I've tried everything.   My father, Louis Kievman, was a violist who did a transcription for viola and piano in 1945 of a Kabalevsky piece for violin and piano ("Improvisation to Night of St. Petersburg, Op. 21, No. 1, 1934) which was =   published by Leeds. Leeds of course is out of business. I checked with Universal, one of the successor publishers, but they don't have the rights. (All they could tell me is that don't have them, no suggestion = was made as to where I might check next.)   This is important because a violist has requested permission to record my Dad's work but we can't find out who has the real rights. At least not = yet.   The Library of Congress shows nothing for a copyright under my father's name. They have some instruction books he wrote, but not this = transcription.   A professor at the Boston Conservatory suggested that perhaps the rights have reverted to Sikorski -- they apparently have the rights to the original Kabalevsky piece. Sikorski has not responded to two emails and while I might hear from them in a few days, I'm assuming NOT.   Frank Music suggested I check with BMI and ASCAP, but they also have not responded to email inquiries ... although I only wrote to them within the past week so I'm happy to give them more time.   But finding out who has the rights to a work like this when the publisher no longer exists can be problematic! The family is very happy to have Brett record this piece ... but will the holder of the rights (if there is =   one) be quite so happy if permission isn't obtained??   Mura      
(back) Subject: Wanamaker on Peter Jennings From: "John Jarvis" <JLJarvis@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:57:14 -0800   I've looked all over the abcnews.com website and have not located the = piece on the Wanamaker organ that was mentioned in an earlier post. Does anyone have a better link to it than was posted previously?   Happy New Year!   JJ      
(back) Subject: Re: Wanamaker on Peter Jennings From: <Swedish5702@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:09:44 EST   Christmas Eve on the ABC Nightly News they ran a story on the Wanamaker = Organ which was a wonderful piece on the Grand Organ.    
(back) Subject: Re: Wanamaker on Peter Jennings From: <OrganNYC@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:22:51 EST   Here is the link:   http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/videofiles/Video/031224pipeorgan_video.ra= m   Steve Lawson - NYC       In a message dated 12/27/2003 8:58:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 JLJarvis@comcast.net writes:   > I=E2=80=99ve looked all over the abcnews.com website and have not located=20= the piece=20 > on the Wanamaker organ that was mentioned in an earlier post. Does anyone= =20 > have a better link to it than was posted previously? >=20 > Happy New Year! >=20 > JJ >=20 >=20 >=20      
(back) Subject: Typo From: <brentmj@charter.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:02:59 -0500   I have to pass along a fun typo:   http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/7578618.htm   Brent Johnson ORGANLive - Music of the organ on demand http://www.organlive.com    
(back) Subject: Re: X POSTED - Musicom vs. Walker From: "F Richard Burt" <effarbee@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:25:59 -0600   Hello, Jeff: As one who has built and may build again in the future with Musicom technologies, the first difference is based on one simple fact: Walker builds organs; Musicom builds organ parts and systems. If you wish to question walker versus a particular builder who uses Musicom, then that is a different question. Please visit my website at www.dorianorgans.com You will find a general description of the most recent project using Musicom technologies, where we doubled the size of a two-manual 1982 Schantz with Musicom digital voices and a complete organ control system.   I know of others, some of whom are participants in PipeChat and Eorg-L. You might inquire generally for those working with the Musicom technologies to write you offline. Appreciatively, F. Richard Burt Dorian Organs ..  
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell. 2003 in retrospect. From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:30:34 -0500   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Felix Hell" <hell-felix@t-online.de> To: <PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: Felix Hell. 2003 in retrospect.     > Dear list members and friends, > > I'm still excited to spend the Christmas holidays at home with my family > and even my dad is finally getting rid of the stress created by the past > few months.   <enormous snip>   <"Basically > Bach" is a musical weekend at the Eastside of Manhattan, celebrating the > greatest of the great with organ recitals, oratories, masses, motets, > orchestra works, and, as a conclusion a festive worship, in a way and > intensity, you have to experience in order to be able to talk about it. > I don't know, why it was never a real emphasis in all kind of reports or > reviews either in TAO, the DIASPASON, or this list. That's too bad. >   <Gigantic snip> > > If you think October is over, you will be surprised. The calendar shows > on October 23 a recital at Methuen Memorial Music Hall. But the week > began on Monday, October 20, with setting pistons, practicing, learning, > studying and recording for four long days. The project: first stage of a > - still ongoing project - to record the complete works of Felix > Mendelssohn. This week it was all about recording Mendelssohn's six > sonatas and his three preludes and fugues, and ending with an all > Mendelssohn recital. And I was quite moved to see that my former teacher > Dr. John Weaver had agreed to come over to Methuen and share his time > with me on Mendelssohn. He and I spent a total of seven hours (!) > working on the Six Sonatas, and the time just flew by way too quickly. > Thank you, Dr. Weaver! < Anyway, the whole project was a challenge. And I did not feel too secure > about presenting a recital with works by Mendelssohn only. I did not see > any review, neither on this list nor elsewhere, >   <Yet another snip>   > Our sincere Christmas wishes you all probably received from me and my = dad. > > These now are our wishes for a HAPPY NEW YEAR > > Felix Hell >   Dear List and Friends,   I feel I want to say that Felix's long posting of his concert year in = review is a remarkable document for our time. Serious Question: Is there anyone reading these lists who knows anyone who regularly plays between 60 and 70 full public recitals in a year? This year, Felix puts the count at 66! = These are all over the country, as well as international, including the = Norwegian tour he outlines so well. Last year, the number was about the same, and included a major tour of Australia.   I know there are little barbs aimed at me, two of them to be precise. = About basically Bach, he says: "I don't know why it was never a real emphasis in all kind of reports or reviews either in TAO, the DIASPASON, or this = list." About his rather remarkable feat of recording for several days, ending = with a full length, all Felix (Mendelssohn, that is) recital, he says: "And I = did not feel too secure about presenting a recital with works by Mendelssohn only. I did not see = any review, neither on this list nor elsewhere." Well, let me tell you and anyone else interested where I am with that. For the following recitals personally attended, I have very detailed notes, taken on my Palm PDA. Number 1 is my first obligation, both to the OHS, the players, and also = The Diapason, and that is to write about the last day of the most recent convention, in Central Pennsylvania. I have written about all the other = days on both lists, and if anyone did not receive those reviews for any reason, = I will gladly send them along. That's Number One priority, and together = those reviews will give you a flavor of what an OHS convention is like, and help you decide to come to Buffalo next July. www.organsociety.org 2) This year's Basically Bach Festival at St. Peter's Lutheran Church in Manhattan (Klais Organ) - there were four concerts: Felix Hell, Iaian = Quinn, Paul Jacobs and Walter Hilse - a rich and full day. 3) Andrew Henderson at St. Ignatius Loyola, NY 4) Felix Hell at Methuen, as already mentioned = 5) Kent Tritle at St. Ignatius Loyola, NY 6) Mark Anderson at St. John's Lutheran Church, Allentown, PA - one of the last E. M. Skinner Organs, rebuilt by Reuter. 7) Thomas Murray at Woolsey Hall, Yale University 8) Fred Teardo in Battell Chapel at Yale University. These are recitals I was excited about, and wished I could write about immediately, while they were fresh in my mind, but I want you to know that each review, even a little one, takes an enormous amount of time and sometimes research. Writing = these reviews is NOT my day job! I also have a church in which I delight, and serving there as Organist and Choirmaster takes many more hours than I = will ever be compensated for in cash, but my compensation comes in other ways, which many of you will understand fully. By the way, I purposely left in Felix's little typo, DIASPASON, because it so much resembles what we as students used to call the magazine, when we thought we were very clever - the "Diaspasm." And, by the way, some of the most amazing hours I ever = spent at Oberlin as a student, using time when I should have been practicing, = was in the stacks at the Carnegie Library, reading the Diapason through from = its beginning in 1909. The Organ World has clearly changed!   Anyway, with Christmas now past, pressures on me have eased somewhat, at least at church. I hope finally to get writing, which is something I very much enjoy, partly for its own sake, and partly because it spreads the = word about music being made within our profession. Soon, I hope, you will have cause to complain because I am shoving too many words in your e-mailboxes.   Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com                      
(back) Subject: Re: Felix Hell. 2003 retrospect From: "leora holcomb" <leh637@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:09:49 -0800 (PST)   Felix, we were the ones that were honored to have you play for the = wedding. We are still very happy and have such wonderful memories of your = playing, as well as the marriage ceremony (lol) and Alan's assistance, = etc. We keep up with your schedule and will try to make one close by here = (Denton, TX). We do a lot of traveling, so it may be possible to be at a = concert at a greater distance. I read the review in todays TAO regarding = the recording of the Mendelssohn. We are still in a daze over the = wonderful music at the wedding, and, of course, your presence. (and your = Dad's). Lee and Keith   Felix Hell <hell-felix@t-online.de> wrote:A PIPORG-L/PIPECHAT-wedding was = on the schedule in June at St. Luke=92s Lutheran at Times Square in NYC, and I was deeply moved to be part of that. Lee and Keith had met each other personally the first time at one of my concerts in Oklahoma City. I felt so honored! Off to St. Joseph, Missouri, where the AGO-Region VI convention took place, precisely organized by Bill McMurray and his team.         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square  
(back) Subject: Re: copyright laws From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 04:05:33 EST   In a message dated 12/27/2003 5:19:23 PM Central Standard Time, mura@speakeasy.net writes: I'm having a similar problem although it has nothing to do with church music ... so feel free not to read on! But I'm posting just in case someone might have some suggestions for me, I think I've tried everything.   My father, Louis Kievman, was a violist who did a transcription for viola and piano in 1945 of a Kabalevsky piece for violin and piano ("Improvisation to Night of St. Petersburg, Op. 21, No. 1, 1934) which was =   published by Leeds. Leeds of course is out of business. I checked with Universal, one of the successor publishers, but they don't have the rights. (All they could tell me is that don't have them, no suggestion = was made as to where I might check next.)   This is important because a violist has requested permission to record my Dad's work but we can't find out who has the real rights. At least not = yet.   The Library of Congress shows nothing for a copyright under my father's name. They have some instruction books he wrote, but not this = transcription.   A professor at the Boston Conservatory suggested that perhaps the rights have reverted to Sikorski -- they apparently have the rights to the original Kabalevsky piece. Sikorski has not responded to two emails and while I might hear from them in a few days, I'm assuming NOT.   Frank Music suggested I check with BMI and ASCAP, but they also have not responded to email inquiries ... although I only wrote to them within the past week so I'm happy to give them more time.   But finding out who has the rights to a work like this when the publisher no longer exists can be problematic! The family is very happy to have Brett record this piece ... but will the holder of the rights (if there is =   one) be quite so happy if permission isn't obtained??   Mura I suggest you find a lawyer who handles these situations regularly.             Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Student Northwestern University Director of Music and Organist St. Peter's U.C.C. Frankfort, IL 847.332.2788 home 708.243.2549 mobile gfc234@aol.com