PipeChat Digest #4182 - Tuesday, December 30, 2003
 
bulletins in RC churches...
  by "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu>
Bulletin Bloopers
  by "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com>
Re: bulletin typos (and RC churches)
  by <DERREINETOR@aol.com>
RCs and Anglicans
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: bulletin typos
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: bulletin typos
  by "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net>
Re: notation software
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: bulletins in RC churches...  LOOONG
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Bits and Pieces...
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net>
CROSS POST - brief - Rodgers Organ Voice Module
  by "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net>
Re: bulletins in RC churches...
  by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net>
Re: Bulletin Bloopers
  by <reedstop@charter.net>
Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans)
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: typos
  by "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans)
  by <quilisma@cox.net>
Re: bulletin typos
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
Re: trains (was HAPPY CHRISTMAS!) (NO organ content)
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: bulletins in RC churches... From: "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:43:34 -0500 (EST)   On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Alan Freed wrote:   > > In the protestant church, great pains are taken to put in the titles > > of all organ pieces. Does anyone have any comments on my observation? > > Sure. In the form of a rhetorical question: "What's music WORTH around > here?" (And what's the worth of the person "doing" it, and of his/her > musical scholarship, taste, training?)   So, uh...because preludes and postludes (or choir anthems, for that matter) aren't in the bulletins of most RC churches, that means said churches don't value music or their musicians? Quite the leap, don't you think?   By and large, RC bulletins serve to disseminate information to parishioners. They are generally distributed after Mass (rather than before), so that folks in the pews aren't tempted to start reading them during the homily! (honestly!)   Because the form of the liturgy, with a few exceptions, is the same from week to week, there is no need for an "order of worship." Catholic folks know it, and visitors can find it in any hymnal worth its salt. Occasionally, when the liturgy is going to be unusually complex and/or a great number of visitors are expected (such as Christmas, the liturgies of the Paschal Triduum, Easter, etc.), many parishes will put together a "worship aid" (or whatever you want to call it) which is essentially the same as most Protestant "bulletins." But most RC parishes simply have no need for something like this on a weekly basis.   I always select congregational, organ, and choral music that is in unity with the readings of the day, and sometimes the time of year (liturgical or seasonal). Occasionally, if a piece of music is particularly relevant, and I don't think the average parishioner will "get" the connection, I put a little blurb in the bulletin. I'd venture to say, however, that folks knowing the title of a work is of much less importance than them being emotionally affected by it. Do most folks really care what the name of a piece is? If they do, they can always come upstairs and ask afterward, or call or email me (information which is contained in our handy bulletins).   Perhaps the reason service music is generally printed in Protestant bulletins is because the organists/music directors want to see their great accomplishments in print?   Of course I didn't mean that...but such a generalization is just as appropriate (well, inappropriate, actually) as Mr. Freed's comments about music and musicians not being valued by churches that don't list it/them in their bulletins.   Happy New Year to all...   -greg homza DM student in Organ and Church Music Indiana University Bloomington (home to some darned fine musical scholarship, taste, and training...)    
(back) Subject: Bulletin Bloopers From: "Charlie Lester" <crlester@137.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:17:14 -0800   Well, I have to bust my own self on this one.   Each week, I enter the music listings in a Word file on the church's computer -- the pastor (who types the bulletin!) knows to just go that file and cut and paste the listings, done this way specifically to avoid typos.   Wrong.   Two weeks ago, I was in a big dither because I had to get three weeks' worth of music listings ready since the choir would not be rehearsing on Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve. So I filled in all the blanks but could not remember the name of the composer for one of the anthems, so I typed in a "placeholder" name intending to come back and put the correct name in before I left.   Well, in the process of zipping around the church, doing a hundred other things before I left, I forgot to finish typing my bulletin notes.   So, this Sunday, when I opened the worship folder, here is what I saw for the Choir Anthem:   MUSIC MINISTRY . . . . . . . Faith Victory Choir "The Birthday of a King" by Diddley Squat   I asked the pastor about it --- ?? --- didn't he think that was an odd name for a composer?! He he decided to leave it that way just to see if anyone was paying attention!      
(back) Subject: Re: bulletin typos (and RC churches) From: <DERREINETOR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:28:19 EST   Fran,   At my most recent (and positively LAST at least for the foreseeable = future) RC job, my predecessor had initiated a "worship guide" (i.e., a = "bulletin") which listed not only the music, but the words of each week's anthem as = well. It also indicated where in the hymnal hymns and mass settings could be found. = I expanded this worship guide to include enough information and music that = it almost made those ghastly "missalettes" obsolete for that parish. It was = very popular with most of the congregation and the Pastor, but barely tolerated = by the other clergy and most of the "old-timers". One crusty old nun accused me = of "trying to rip the missalettes out of the hands of parishioners". I = suggested she go buy a modern St. Joseph's Missal and save some trees.In a more = polite way, of course. Well, slightly more polite. After all, I reasoned, wasn't = it the introduction of the missalettes that "ripped the St. Joseph Missal" = out of their hands in the first place?   Even so, the clergy of this parish was very deeply distrustful of its professional musicians' vocations and ever-fearful of being "upstaged" by = good, tasteful music--especially that informed by pre-conciliar Roman, Anglican = and Lutheran traditions (the latter two inform the hymnal "Worship" heavily). = Perhaps that's because the better the music, the harder they'd have to work on = their preaching and their own liturgical skills. This is, I believe, a major = reason many RC parishes downplay music by not publishing bulletins. Another = reason is that RC Masses are practically the same everywhere, and the congregations = know things by rote. It's all about making your Sunday obligation--why muck it = up knowing that the prelude is a partita on a hymn to be sung during Mass, or = the postlude a fantasy on a chant? Both are poor excuses, in my opinion. For = me, it was enough to send me running (not walking) to Canterbury--where my vocation is not questioned because I do a good job and think that the = people have a right to KNOW what they're hearing and singing--and WHY.   Bill H. (ducking for cover;)    
(back) Subject: RCs and Anglicans From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:48:01 -0800   Bill, don't look to Canterbury for shelter (sigh) ... at one point this summer, virtually every major cathedral organ post in the US was vacant; several major parish churches canned their musicians with no notice. The vast majority of AGO job actions listed in TAO are against Episcopal churches.   I suspect there should be MORE against RC churches, but RC musicians simply don't bother ... they just move on.   I look back at the previous generation of Anglican organists who often held posts for fifty years or more ... most of them were QUITE ferocious (chuckle) ... I guess priests just didn't want to tangle with them.   Of COURSE a priest with a bachelor's or a master's of divinity is going to feel threatened by an DMA-FAGO-FRCO etc., sadly.   Even in my most favorite RC job, I was given ENDLESS grief for playing a required degree recital on the chapel organ of the Episcopal Cathedral .... but I wasn't going to play an all-Bach recital on our roaring '20s Austin, lovely though it was for service-playing and romantic music.   I'm retired now ... would I advise a young musician to go into church = music?   ABSOLUTELY NOT!   Cheers,   Bud              
(back) Subject: Re: bulletin typos From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:49:00 -0500       On 30 Dec 2003 at 8:59, Randolph Runyon wrote:   > But I have found a good solution: > I email her my text (which now includes about 300 words per Sunday of > notes on the music) in a Word document, so that she doesn't have to > retype it. Any typos will now be entirely my fault.   A perfect solution, Randy. I always encouraged e-mail communication when = I could. Saves on second and third-generation retypings.   --Shirley        
(back) Subject: Re: bulletin typos From: "Shirley" <pnst.shirley@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:48:59 -0500       On 30 Dec 2003 at 13:43, Alan Freed wrote:   > Dougie and Mary got married one week. No problem. But then next week > it was John and Cynthia. So the bulletin came out with one line of > the Apostles' Creed, "born of the Virgin Cynthia."   Been there, done that. I'd just discovered the "Find/Replace" function in = MS Publisher. I pulled up a funeral bulletin I'd done for a Mary, found all = Mary's and replaced them with Bernice, whose funeral bulletin I was preparing. I = checked all the changes... except the Apostles' Creed. And there, Jesus was born of = the Virgin Bernice.   I wanted to crawl into a hole, but the family found it quite funny. I've = never been able to live that one down.   Human, us church secretaries are, but not always incompetent.   --Shirley        
(back) Subject: Re: notation software From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:52:49 -0600   A few of my friends have older versions of Finale because it used to be so easy to copy, but they cannot figure out how to use it. As to Sibelius, I just wish SOMEONE in the labs here knew how to use it! I had so much trouble that if I get anything higher than a B in theory this semester it will be because the professor threw the assignment that had to be notated with a computer out!   Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"       > > > Charlie Lester wrote: > > > > > I'm a bit embarrassed to say that, as computer literate (indeed, > > computer-dependent) as I am in just about every other area of my > life, I > > have never mastered any of the computer music engraving programs. > > They're just too darn hard to use! > > > > A friend gave me a copy of one of the most popular programs, called > > Finale -- I installed it, sat with the three-volume set of user > manuals > > that, together, are thicker than the L.A. phone book, and just could > not > > make heads nor tails of the confounded program. After several hours > of > > head scratching and some very fine profanity, I said "Phooey on > this!" > > Put the books on the shelf and there they still sit. > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: bulletins in RC churches... LOOONG From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:21:23 -0500   On 12/30/03 3:43 PM, "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu> wrote:   > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Alan Freed wrote (first quoting another poster): >=20 >>> In the protestant church, great pains are taken to put in the titles >>> of all organ pieces. Does anyone have any comments on my observation? >>=20 >> Sure. In the form of a rhetorical question: "What's music WORTH around >> here?" (And what's the worth of the person "doing" it, and of his/her >> musical scholarship, taste, training?) >=20 > So, uh...because preludes and postludes (or choir anthems, for that > matter) aren't in the bulletins of most RC churches, that means said > churches don't value music or their musicians?   Yes, that's the opinion I'm venturing.   > Quite the leap, don't you think? >=20 No, not really. It maybe IS, but I don't THINK so.   > By and large, RC bulletins serve to disseminate information to parishione= rs. > They are generally distributed after Mass (rather than before), so that f= olks > in the pews aren't tempted to start reading them during the homily! > (honestly!) >=20 You're right, of course; it's a different publication, with a different purpose. =20   > Because the form of the liturgy, with a few exceptions, is the same from = week > to week, there is no need for an "order of worship." Catholic folks know= it, > and visitors can find it in any hymnal worth its salt.   I hear you. We too use the mass of the Western Catholic Church every Sunday, so I'm accustomed to what you're saying. But instead of a cantor (or whoever) braying out the name and page-umber of each hymn (a brutal intrusion into the mass, in my esthetic), our folks just follow the bulleti= n and SING. (Most churches have "hymn-boards," which is even easier, if you prefer.) Same with psalms, canticles, antiphons, whatever. Very opinionated crack: Fifty years ago, the RCs did masses that were profoundl= y REVERENT, and ours (Lutheran, in my case) were "OK," but we had a lot to learn. Most of us have learned a lot of that (and a lot of it from Rome, too, thanks!), while, simultaneously, Rome has LOST a huge part of the beauty, dignity, and reverence of the mass. Fifty years ago, Romans at mas= s had no NEED for a "bulletin" (in our sense)--because the people did little more than stand/sit/kneel/count beads; I think it would be great if they sa= w the advantage they might have if now they "involved" the assembly (even more) in what's going on--musically, devotionally, ceremonially, scripturally, ritually, intellectually (in no particular order).   > Occasionally, when the liturgy is going to be unusually complex and/or a = great > number of visitors are expected (such as Christmas, the liturgies of the > Paschal Triduum, Easter, etc.), many parishes will put together a "worshi= p > aid" (or whatever you want to call it) which is essentially the same as m= ost > Protestant "bulletins." But most RC parishes simply have no need for > something like this on a weekly basis.   No =B3NEED,=B2 I agree. But if it helps (a lot?) during the Paschal Triduum, wouldn't it help (some?) on an ordinary Sunday in Ordinary Time? (That=B9s my best two-bagger hit of this post.) >=20 > I always select congregational, organ, and choral music that is in unity = with > the readings of the day, and sometimes the time of year (liturgical or > seasonal). Occasionally, if a piece of music is particularly relevant, an= d I > don't think the average parishioner will "get" the connection, I put a li= ttle > blurb in the bulletin.   Good! If you did that four times as much, perhaps only 8% of the folks would benefit from it, or even notice it. But perhaps, over a generation o= r so, that 8% would grow to much more! And in a congregation that really VALUES its music and musicians, isn=B9t the chance of that even greater?   > I'd venture to say, however, that folks knowing the title of a work is of= much > less importance than them being emotionally affected by it.   Totally agreed. Well, almost totally, anyway.   > Do most folks really care what the name of a piece is?   No. (But some do.) Might you =B3pitch=B2 your message to the bottom 10% or th= e top 10%? (Perhaps to the 75th percentile?)   > If they do, they can always come upstairs and ask afterward, or call or e= mail > me (information which is contained in our handy bulletins).   Yes. But you're satisfied with that? I'd vote for YOU OFFERING (even pushing?) the information, rather than just being available by e=3Dmail to deliver it. Our bulletin lists all the music, with full titles, BWV numbers, etc. Very often bilingually. Each hymn is identified by text and by tune-name--and they SEE that that's where that Prelude came from. Anthems, antiphons, and motets have text in English and original. Some people couldn't care LESS. But some find it of great interest. A Toccata is not JUST an emotional or esthetic experience, but perhaps an intellectua= l one as well. And thus (at least potentially) a devotional or spiritual one as well. =20 >=20 > Perhaps the reason service music is generally printed in Protestant bulle= tins > is because the organists/music directors want to see their great > accomplishments in print? >=20 > Of course I didn't mean that...   Oh, that's all right. I'm sure that in some cases you're right. In our case, I can't GET our Cantor (in the Lutheran sense) to ALLOW me to put A.A.G.O. after his name, though he owns it.   > but such a generalization is just as appropriate (well, inappropriate, > actually) as Mr. Freed's comments about music and musicians not being val= ued > by churches that don't list it/them in their bulletins.   That=B9s =B3Alan,=B2 to you. I'm not a church musician (or any other kind). (Decades ago I did work as an organist a bit, and as a choirmaster more.) I'm now only a "groupie." I regard our musicians very HIGHLY. They have a lot to offer the assembly. I'm for putting some of it in writing, before, during, AND after mass.   Oh, and as for your school. A fine place indeed. I know (now) only one graduate (D.Mus., I think) from your organ department. And he's a very fin= e credit to the school. (Though he insists on =B3Dr.=B2 before his name=8Bbut he EARNED it, so that=B9s OK.)   Good jawing with/at you, Greg. I hope we'll talk more!   Alan Freed www.stlukesnyc.org (Take a look at us.)            
(back) Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces... From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@adelphia.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:20:42 -0800   Sorry....   Gotta weigh in here.... I've used Finale on BOTH a Mac and a Windows platform, I find it MORE difficult to use on the MAC (not because it's counter-intuituve, but because I'm used to the Windows conventions)   I only say this because I get tired of Windows-bashing by the Mac folks... I'm well aware of the pros and cons of Mac vs Win... I've heard the tired arguments too many times, and have cursed with the other Win users when my PC freezes up (something that has decreased DRAMATICALLY with the advent of Win 2k and XP). I prefer being able to build my own = machines at a lower cost instead of being held hostage to the Mac Monopoly... to = me, it's worth the occasional Blue Screen of Death.   If you already USE a Mac, of course it will be eaiser.   FURTHERmore, I've been a Finale user since version 2.? and Bud _IS_ correct... the learning curve was simply HELLACIOUS. I can use it very proficiently thanks to 10 years of experience AND the fact that by V. 2002b it is MUCH easier to use (and I understand the curve has softened even more with V 2004)   Now, this _IS_ an organ list after all.... so I'll quit my rant now, but = say that I _CAN_ turn out organ scores pretty quickly now (and Choral scores as well!)   Happy New Year, Everyone   Jonathan   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:21 AM Subject: Re: Bits and Pieces...     > You might want to try Sibelius - much more intuitive and almost as > powerful as Finale. Both of these are incomparably easier to use if > you're on a Macintosh rather than a Windows box by the way, so if > you're having problems mastering computer programs, that's a place to > start! > > Happy New Year, > Russ Greene    
(back) Subject: CROSS POST - brief - Rodgers Organ Voice Module From: "noel jones" <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:31:44 -0500   For those interested some sample mp3 audio files of a few of the 76 organ stops from this new module have been posted at:   www.frogmusic.com   1. Use the link to MUSIC STORE 2. Choose CD's - Rodgers Organ and Frog Music Press   Thank you!   noel jones, aago    
(back) Subject: Re: bulletins in RC churches... From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:37:45 -0500   <<<<<<<Perhaps the reason service music is generally printed in Protestant bulletins is because the organists/music directors want to see their great accomplishments in print?>>>>   That was uncalled for, and obviously you don't even know what you're talking about. If that's what you're learning at Indiana University, you're getting a very poor education.   Diane S. Presbyterian/Baptist   --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Information Boulevard's Virus = Scanning]    
(back) Subject: Re: Bulletin Bloopers From: <reedstop@charter.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:37:29 -0500   > So I filled in all the blanks but could not remember the > name of the composer for one of the anthems, so I typed in a > "placeholder" name intending to come back and put the > correct name in before I left.   Charlie, I did this too, but I used a "?". So, the anthem for the 11pm = Christmas Eve service was:   ANTHEM "For Unto Us" Handel / ?   We used an arrangement, and the arranger's last name (I now remember) is = "Pugh". SIGH   Jeff      
(back) Subject: Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans) From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:38:14 -0600   Bud, Some of us actually love it (despite its drawbacks). I wouldn't change my major for anything.   Alicia Zeilenga Sub-Dean AGO@UI "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"   > > I'm retired now ... would I advise a young musician to go into church > music? > > ABSOLUTELY NOT! > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: typos From: "Alicia Zeilenga" <azeilenga@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:41:55 -0600   Did you go to UI? The way you spelled the name of the state suggests something. ;-) Alicia -an Illini- Zeilenga "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis"     -----Original Message----- From: "black" <gblack@ocslink.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:59:05 -0600 Subject: typos   > Coming from Illinios, home of Hinners pipe organ company in Pekin at > one > time, I attended a recital and the name of the organ company, Hinners > was > printed in the program. Due to the Gothic type that Hinners used for > their > name plates, the name was printed. Himmers organ company. If you can't > read > it then go with the flow I guess. Gary > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Young church musicians (was RCs and Anglicans) From: <quilisma@cox.net> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:55:58 -0800   Alicia, I loved it too, for a very long time, despite the awful pay, awful working conditions, awful organs (for the most part), awful clergy (most of them).   What kept me going were the choirs (mine tended to be fanatically loyal) and the appreciative congregations (some).   I had to retire at 59 on account of failing health.   I'm at the end of my life and my career and I have NOTHING to show for it ... absolutely NOTHING.   I will live the balance of my life in abject poverty because I chose to work for the Church "full-time" for most of my adult life.   I have no pension, no long-term health care; until my SSI is approved, I'll be living on welfare ($200/mo), food stamps ($100/mo), and the goodness of friends who are allowing me to live with them.   You'll have to excuse me if I'm just a LITTLE bitter.   But, on balance, I've not been treated any worse than the old school nuns who had to go on welfare or become motel cleaners in their old age. Unfortunately, I'm not ABLE to work, though.   Bud       Alicia Zeilenga wrote:   > Bud, > Some of us actually love it (despite its drawbacks). I wouldn't change > my major for anything. > > Alicia Zeilenga > Sub-Dean AGO@UI > "Santa Caecilia, ora pro nobis" > > >>I'm retired now ... would I advise a young musician to go into church >>music? >> >>ABSOLUTELY NOT! >> >>Cheers, >> >>Bud >> >> >> >> >> >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: bulletin typos From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:54:15 EST   My favorite typo was when I was singing in the choir of the very = hoity-toity Lutheran church in town (where the choir was considered 'the hired help', = and was requested not to linger in coffee hour) happened in a program for a service the night before Thanksgiving. We were scheduled to sing the = anther "I Looked and Behold a White Cloud", but the secretary hit the "S" key = instead of the "W" key......   Richard Spittel Baltimore, MD  
(back) Subject: Re: trains (was HAPPY CHRISTMAS!) (NO organ content) From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:10:00 EST   In a message dated 12/30/03 8:54:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, chemphill@wi.rr.com writes:   << It is a curiosity, the connection between organists and trains. >>   Actually, I think there is a connection between any group of people and trains. I've found out many people have some kind of fascination with = trains, but are not all that fanatical about it (save the train spotters who LIVE to = watch trains go by). It's an interest you may now know others have unless you = spot them at a train museum, hobby shop, or train show. For those into model railroading, since it's all done in the privacy of your house, your best = friends and neighbors may have no inkling of it unless they happen to see it or = hear of it, and then they are intensely curious and want to visit it.   Here in Baltimore, we're lucky to have a large train museum (which is = sadly still under reconstruction after the blizzard last year), as well as a = smaller one in Ellicott City in one of the first train stations.   There is also a tradition here (which I've recently discovered is highly localized) of "Christmas Gardens". At one time, almost every home had = some kind of train layout under the christmas tree, often situated at the front = windows so the neighbors could watch from the outside. For households like mine, = in shich my father was a train freak (as well as a theater organist), this = layout grew to be much to big for the living room, so it was moved to the = basement, but still called a "Christmas Garden". There are still a large handful of = fire companies which have their annual train layouts (or Christmas Garden), and = you can fill several days during the holiday visiting them all. I was = surprised to discover that people from other areas had never heard of this.   Richard Spittel Baltimore, MD