PipeChat Digest #3458 - Friday, February 14, 2003
 
Re: IRC Sessions - Windows XP
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
Re: what kind of chest to use
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen
  by "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net>
Re: Hymn Search and Evensong at Norwich Cathedral
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
liking to sleep at night
  by "Gilson" <sgilson@sympatico.ca>
Re: Jewish organ music
  by <lindr@cch.com>
Re: what kind of chest to use
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
RE: Jewish organ music
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen
  by "TRAVIS EVANS" <tevansmo@prodigy.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: IRC Sessions - Windows XP From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:29:21 -0500   At 08:17 AM 2/14/03 -0500, you wrote: >Hello Listers, > >Can anybody please tell me if IRC is Windows XP compatible? I had it >running successfully on Windows 98, but since buying this new computer >have found that many of my programs don't like XP. > >Cheers > >Paul >EchoGamba@aol.com     Paul and others,   It should be compatible, but there are some software programmes that will not work in Windows XP.   Most of my adaptive software, (screen reading software), has problems with =   XP, and those of us who have to resort to adaptive software are advised to =   stay with Windows 98.   I am still on Windows 98 for that reason, - you might check with mIRC = about it.   Bob Conway            
(back) Subject: Re: what kind of chest to use From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:54:44 -0800   > > Gary Black wrote: > >> HI list, What kind of a chest should be used for a 16' fagotto, >> electro-pneumatic or electro-mechanical and why? Thanks, Gary > >You can use either type, but I think you'll find that the pipes will >speak with better behavior on electro-Pneumatic action. Much of it >simply depends upon the physical size of the valve and what the magnets >are capable of delivering. Peterson SuperValves can do the job, but the >wind tends to go up the Toe Hole on an angle due to the pivot design of >the valve. The wind enters the Toe Hole straighter with an E.P. pouch >design because it drops straight, rather than on an angle. > >One "trick" is to Offset the pipes to help obviate that effect, although >reeds certainly don't like being treated that way. > >You should be able to pick up a decent EP Offset chest for your basses >pretty reasonably. > >Faithfully, > >G.A.   We used a Wuritzer 8' string offset chest (EP of course) for the bottom 8' octave of our post horn which we added to the Bardavon Wurlitzer. Works great!   John V  
(back) Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen From: "Stan Yoder" <vze2myh5@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:09:04 -0500       Quentsmith@aol.com wrote: > > To the questioner: How does it compare to an Allen? The Rodgers is far > superior to the Allen organ in replay of the sampled sounds, in the > reproduction of pipe organ phenonomana and the integration with actual = pipes.   [snip]   I would recommend to those that have a dealership of Rodgers or > Allen nearby, to go there and listen as the technology for both = companies > has jumped tremendously in the last two or three years. You will be > surprised, I am sure about how the new digital organs sound. Not every = church > or home can afford or have the room for a pipe organ, though one is = ideal, > the next best is a digitally sampled pipe sound. Quentin Smith > In the interest of full disclosure: Are you employed by Rodgers? Do you = own stock in this cimpany?   Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Search and Evensong at Norwich Cathedral From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:09:29 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_053C_01C2D408.C7D81810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hi Steve,   I think I pushed send one time too many, and you will have received a =3D blank.   There was a great discussion about Coe Fen after I mentioned it being =3D sung at the OHS Convention, I think two summers ago. Anyway, a check of = =3D the PipOrg-L Archives should reveal all. It is possible that it was on =3D Pipechat. Everything you want to know about this tune is there.   Good luck.   Malcolm ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: OrganNYC@aol.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 4:06 AM Subject: Hymn Search and Evensong at Norwich Cathedral     Today I listened to BBC's Choral Evensong which featured the choir and = =3D organ of Norwich Cathedral. It's always a pleasure to hear the various = =3D cathedral and collegiate choirs of England present this wonderful =3D service, and to hear the organ scholars at their best. The BBC-3 Choral = =3D Evensong URL is BBC - Radio3 Classical Music - Choral Evensong for =3D those of you unfamiliar with it.   The final hymn sung at this service is a new one to me: "How shall I = =3D sing that majesty" sung to the tune Coe Fen (by Ken Naylor). =3D20   I did a lot of searching for this tune on the internet, but only came = =3D up with the original tune, plus a lot of CDs which feature the Coe Fen =3D tune. It would appear that this tune is a favorite new setting which is = =3D being sung all over the UK. The hymn is from a book called "Praise and = =3D Thanksgiving" published by Gresham Books; a search on their website was = =3D not helpful. =3D20   Does anyone have a copy of this hymn which they could send to me? I =3D would be very appreciative.   Please reply privately.   Steve Lawson - NYC ------=3D_NextPart_000_053C_01C2D408.C7D81810 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hi Steve,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>I think I pushed send one time too = =3D many, and you=3D20 will have received a blank.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>There was a great discussion about = Coe =3D Fen=3D20 after&nbsp;I mentioned it being&nbsp;sung at the OHS Convention, I think = =3D two=3D20 summers ago. Anyway, a check of the PipOrg-L Archives should reveal all. = =3D It is=3D20 possible that it was on Pipechat. Everything you want to know about this = =3D tune is=3D20 there.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Good luck.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Malcolm</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DOrganNYC@aol.com =3D href=3D3D"mailto:OrganNYC@aol.com">OrganNYC@aol.com</A>=3D20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 14, 2003 = =3D 4:06=3D20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Hymn Search and =3D Evensong at=3D20 Norwich Cathedral</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">Today I listened to BBC's Choral Evensong which =3D featured=3D20 the choir and organ of Norwich Cathedral.&nbsp; It's always a pleasure = =3D to hear=3D20 the various cathedral and collegiate choirs of England present this =3D wonderful=3D20 service, and to hear the organ scholars at their best.&nbsp; The BBC-3 = =3D Choral=3D20 Evensong URL is&nbsp; <A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/choral.shtml">BBC - =3D Radio3=3D20 Classical Music - Choral Evensong</A> for those of you unfamiliar with = =3D   it.<BR><BR>The final hymn sung at this service is a new one to =3D me:&nbsp; "How=3D20 shall I sing that majesty" sung to the tune Coe Fen (by Ken =3D Naylor).&nbsp;=3D20 <BR><BR>I did a lot of searching for this tune on the internet, but =3D only came=3D20 up with the original tune, plus a lot of CDs which feature the Coe Fen = =3D   tune.&nbsp; It would appear that this tune is a favorite new setting =3D which is=3D20 being sung all over the UK.&nbsp; The hymn is from a book called =3D "Praise and=3D20 Thanksgiving" published by Gresham Books; a search on their website =3D was not=3D20 helpful.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Does anyone have a copy of this hymn which they = =3D could=3D20 send to me?&nbsp; I would be very appreciative.<BR><BR>Please reply=3D20 privately.<BR><BR>Steve Lawson - NYC</FONT> =3D </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_053C_01C2D408.C7D81810--      
(back) Subject: liking to sleep at night From: "Gilson" <sgilson@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:20:52 -0500   Hi all,   Having just read the post about poor salesmanship (politically correct should be salespersonship? :-) ), I think part of the solution lies in better education for the organist and/or powers-that-be in our churches. I am an organist and also a bit of an organ "techie-buff". There's nothing I love more than crawling around in the chambers when our service company is at the church. In fact, the builder we use makes a point of calling me = when they are there, even just to tune, so I can "make my rounds". We discuss what's been done, have a look at the problems together, and I always play the instrument before they leave to make sure I'm satisfied with the work. = I would never have major work done without a second opinion, but I've = learned enough over the years to know if what my organ builder is saying is true = or not. Now I don't claim to be an organ technician, but I can tune a bad = reed on a Sunday morning, and I know the difference between bad leather and a = bad chest.   If you are an organist who doesn't know anything more than what the = console looks like, either take the time to learn a little, or call on someone who does know. I don't claim to be a professional consultant either, but an organist friend of mine (who has never even set foot in the chamber) often calls me just to "look over" an estimate he has received. If its "out of = my league", I suggest a second opinion. If it's something simpler and = obvious, I feel qualified to advise.   It amazes me that people who wouldn't buy a used car without having = checked by a mechanic and test driving it will pay thousands of dollars to repair = an instrument without a second thought.   Just my two cents...   Steve Gilson Organist and Choirmaster St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church St. Lambert, QC    
(back) Subject: Re: Jewish organ music From: <lindr@cch.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:29:47 -0600             Also look into the Israel Music Institute. Website: http://aquanet.co.il/vip/imi   At the time I wrote to Paul Landau there and asked about which of the 9 works written after 1960 would be the most listener-friendly, he recommended those by Ben-Haim, Braun, and Gelbrun. Theodore Presser is the American agent for this music.   Has anyone mentioned the organ works of Ernest Bloch? It reminds me of one Temple job I had. The cantor was dissatisfied with my prelude, and I said it was by Ernest Bloch. He replied: "Bloch ... he should have been a goy!" He didn't want me playing any more of THAT composer's music.   Some months back I bought the two Preludes and Fugues of Elsa Barraine (b. 1910). Hebrew chant can be found in at least one of them, and I wonder if she is/was Jewish.   Bob Lind      
(back) Subject: Re: what kind of chest to use From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:57:25 -0600   Most of the type of actions we use is all electric, up to toe holes of 1". Larger than that we build pneumatic unit valves. How the pipe is affected by the valve is determined not only by its size, but the relationship of the valve size to the toe board hole and the hole in the toe of the pipe. Also sufficient space between the valve itself and the toe of the pipe must be allowed, otherwise you'll have a great deal of turbulence in the foot of the pipe. Another determining factor is the drop of the valve itself.   Good luck if you're "building" for yourself. You may want to build a few test valves and compare results. Listen critically to not only speed of speech, but the shut off of the valve. You don't want things "burping" on you. <G>     Jon Bertschinger  
(back) Subject: RE: Jewish organ music From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:48:31 -0500   Colin asks:   >is there any real organ music by purely Jewish organists/composers?   Randy Runyon replies:   >Well, there's Ernest Bloch (Switzerland, 1880-1959),   Bloch was not just Swiss, but a fervent, patriotic naturalized American. When he first set foot on American soil, it is said that he broke into tears.   There is also Darius Milhaud, who wrote some organ music (a set of preludes?) that is worth a look.   The American publisher Transcontinental has a line of organ music by = Jewish composers for synagogue use, mostly individual compositions printed in = sheet music form. When I was using this stuff in the mid 1970s, I thought that many of the composers had interesting musical ideas but didn't understand the organ very well. However, all I had to play it on was a loathsome superannuated electronic, so nothing felt or sounded right. Castelnuovo-Tedesco was among the composers represented.   Although Jehan Alain definitely wasn't Jewish, I found that his music = seemed to fit synagogue use better than almost anything else in my repertoire. Then I learned from someone on PIPORG-L that he did play for a synagogue.   Best of all, perhaps, are the works of Herman Berlinski, whom I think of = as one of the most important American organ composers. Not only are they fine as organ music, but they are explicitly Jewish in purpose and sentiment = and sometimes use musical themes from the liturgy. The preludes for Rosh = Hashana and Yom Kippur are among my favorites, recorded by the composer on "Music from the synagogue", Musical Heritage Society MHS 1775 (c1975?). Then = there is the Burning Bush, published in the St. Cecilia series of H.W. Gray. Unfortunately, I don't know of a recording of this tour-de-force, but Catherine Crozier among others found it worthy to perform.   Paul    
(back) Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen From: "TRAVIS EVANS" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:00:11 -0800 (PST)   --0-218189528-1045242011=3D:74213 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii     I am usually not one to jump into the very OLD, and WORN OUT discussion of = pipe v. digital and Digital Brand A against Digital Brand B. However, I = do feel compelled for some strange reason to respond to the following. Quentsmith@aol.com wrote: <<To the questioner: How does it compare to an Allen? The Rodgers is far superior to the Allen organ in replay of the sampled sounds, in the reproduction of pipe organ phenonomana and the integration with actual = pipes. >>     As with ANYTHING in this world, preferences are unique to each and every = individual. Saying one item is superior to another is subjective. = Especially when it comes to sound. There is not one thing that two people = see, hear, feel the same, it is impossible as no two people are alike. = Therefore we have slight prejudices against that which we do not like as = well. Organs not being exempt from that.   <<3. The Allen does not use sampled digital sounds underneath the pipe stops, they only play pipes. The Rodgers will play digital sampled sounds along and under the pipes, the tuning is adjustable to meet the tuning of the pipes that day, they always change. By having a sampled stop underneath the pipe stop is = an advantage two ways. One is if the rank goes for some reason, you can have = it reproduced without the loss of the rank, you just play the digital stop. Also, if you want to do concerts outside of the hall or church, you can = play the organ with all digital stops, moving the console to the site to be played. It can then be hooked up to the pipes again upon return.>>   One should always exhaust all possible information sources before = proceeding to make statement. Which it may very well be that some = installations do not have the digital stops playing along with the pipes = on SOME Allen pipe/digital combos, it is not the rule. An available = option on the Allen is to have 1) Only Digital Stops 2) Pipes in addition = to the Digital stops or 3) have the digital stops that have a = corresponding real Pipe rank to be replaced completely by the Pipes. = Personally I can not see the hassle of removing an entire installation for = ONE concert. Because it involves more than just moving the Console.   << Rodgers also has the RSS reverb system that plays in quadraphonic sound and is adjustable to 64 =   different combinations. The Rodgers goes from small room and wood walls to =   cathedral and marble walls, giving a reverb of 10 seconds or more, the = Allen has less combinations. Rodgers also uses this with pipes. In a dead room a =   digital organ or a pipe organ has no natural reverberation. Now digital organs have the reverb built in , but Rodgers takes it one step further = with their pipe/digital combination. Normally the pipes in a dead room would = not reverberate but the digital pipe sounds would, setting off a distortion = when both are played together. Now Rodgers puts omni-directional mikes in the pipe chambers at selected points, merges this sound with the digital = sounds and all the organ sounds now come out in quadraphonic reverb stereo.>>   In my opinion, and which is only opinion, not to be construed to be a = universally accepted view. The digital reverb is a waste. What good is = having the organ sound like its in a cathedral when the congregation stops = singing their voices to not continue to reverberate, or in any = instrumentalists are playing their sound will not either. I feel that this = creates more of a "distortion" than allowing the natural acoustics of the = room to do its 'thing' no matter how good or bad that may be. As might = possibly be agreed the room is one of the determining factors of the = success/demise of an instrument.   <<We really love our new Rodgers and we listened to the Allen before = making our choice. I would recommend to those that have a dealership of = Rodgers or Allen nearby, to go there and listen as the technology for both = companies has jumped tremendously in the last two or three years. You will = be surprised, I am sure about how the new digital organs sound. Not every church or home can afford = or have the room for a pipe organ, though one is ideal, the next best is a = digitally sampled pipe sound.   Quentin Smith>>   I am glad that you are happy with your instrument. However as stated = above "go there and listen to the technology for BOTH companies." Make a = decision based on what will best fit the needs of the congregation no = matter who the builder is. If we all liked the same thing there wouldn't = be the wide variety of builders.   Travis Evans   --0-218189528-1045242011=3D:74213 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <P>I am usually not one to jump into the very OLD, and WORN OUT discussion = of pipe v. digital and Digital Brand A against Digital Brand B.&nbsp; = However, I do feel compelled for some strange reason to respond to the = following. <P>&nbsp;<B><I>Quentsmith@aol.com</I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: = #1010ff 2px solid"> <P>&lt;&lt;To the questioner: How does it compare to an Allen? The Rodgers = is far <BR>superior to the Allen organ in replay of the sampled sounds, in = the <BR>reproduction of pipe organ phenonomana and the integration with = actual pipes. &gt;&gt;<BR></P> <P>As with ANYTHING in this world, preferences are unique to each and = every individual.&nbsp; Saying one item is superior to another is = subjective.&nbsp; Especially when it comes to sound.&nbsp; There is not = one thing that two people see, hear, feel the same, it is impossible as no = two people are alike.&nbsp; Therefore we have slight prejudices against = that which we do not like as well.&nbsp; Organs not being exempt from = that.</P> <P>&lt;&lt;3. The Allen does <BR>not use sampled digital sounds underneath = the pipe stops, they only play <BR>pipes. The Rodgers will play digital = sampled sounds along and under the <BR>pipes, the tuning is adjustable to = meet the tuning of the pipes that day, <BR>they always change. By having a = sampled stop underneath the pipe stop is an <BR>advantage two ways. One is = if the rank goes for some reason, you can have it <BR>reproduced without = the loss of the rank, you just play the digital stop. <BR>Also, if you = want to do concerts outside of the hall or church, you can play <BR>the = organ with all digital stops, moving the console to the site to be = <BR>played. It can then be hooked up to the pipes again upon = return.&gt;&gt;</P> <P>One should always exhaust all possible information sources before = proceeding to make statement.&nbsp; Which it may very well be that some = installations do not have the digital stops playing along with the pipes = on SOME Allen pipe/digital combos, it is not the rule.&nbsp; An available = option on the Allen is to have 1) Only Digital Stops 2) Pipes in addition = to the Digital stops or 3) have the digital stops that have a = corresponding real Pipe rank to be replaced completely by the Pipes.&nbsp; = Personally I can not see the hassle of removing an entire installation for = ONE concert.&nbsp; Because it involves more than just moving the = Console.</P> <P>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;Rodgers also has the <BR>RSS reverb system that plays in = quadraphonic sound and is adjustable to 64 <BR>different combinations. The = Rodgers goes from small room and wood walls to <BR>cathedral and marble = walls, giving a reverb of 10 seconds or more, the Allen <BR>has less = combinations. Rodgers also uses this with pipes. In a dead room a = <BR>digital organ or a pipe organ has no natural reverberation. Now = digital <BR>organs have the reverb built in , but Rodgers takes it one = step further with <BR>their pipe/digital combination. Normally the pipes = in a dead room would not <BR>reverberate but the digital pipe sounds = would, setting off a distortion when <BR>both are played together. Now = Rodgers puts omni-directional mikes in the <BR>pipe chambers at selected = points, merges this sound with the digital sounds <BR>and all the organ = sounds now come out in quadraphonic reverb stereo.&gt;&gt;</P> <P>In my opinion, and which is only opinion, not to be construed to be a = universally accepted view.&nbsp; The digital reverb is a waste.&nbsp; What good is having the organ sound like = its in a cathedral when the congregation stops singing their voices to not = continue to reverberate, or in any instrumentalists are playing their = sound will not either. I feel that this creates more of a "distortion" = than allowing the natural acoustics of the room to do its 'thing' no = matter how good or bad that may be.&nbsp; As might possibly be agreed the = room is one of the determining factors of the success/demise of an = instrument.</P> <P>&nbsp;&lt;&lt;We really love our new Rodgers and we listened to the = Allen before making our choice. I would recommend to those that have a = dealership of Rodgers or Allen nearby, to go there and listen as the = technology for both companies has jumped tremendously in the last two or = three years. You will be surprised, I am sure about how the new digital = organs sound. Not every church or home can afford or have the room for a = pipe organ, though one is ideal, the next best is a digitally sampled pipe = sound. </P> <P>Quentin Smith&gt;&gt;</P> <P>I am glad that you are happy with your instrument.&nbsp; However as = stated above "go there and listen to the technology for BOTH = companies."&nbsp; Make a decision based on what will best fit the needs of = the congregation no matter who the builder is.&nbsp; If we all liked the = same thing there wouldn't be the wide variety of builders.</P> <P>Travis Evans</P></BLOCKQUOTE> --0-218189528-1045242011=3D:74213--