PipeChat Digest #3461 - Friday, February 14, 2003
 
Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen
  by "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net>
organ dedication (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen
  by "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen From: "G. Deboer" <gdeboer@bluemarble.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:25:26 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C2D467.35CCCF10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   As I said in my original advice, yours is only one opinion and as such =3D is totally useless to the other person ready to investigate his or her =3D own purchase. A knowledgeable adult is not influenced by the idle sales talk of =3D promoting one instrument over another, no matter what direction it comes = =3D from. Sound, Quality construction, Price, Parts availability, that's where =3D it's at. Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.   Gary=3D20   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Teah=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 7:21 PM Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen     Good advice Gary. Buying a digital organ is a major investment and =3D should be very carefully considered. We spent nearly 2 years =3D researching, listening, and playing the various brands and models that =3D fit our budget. Ultimately, here's what we found(our opinion only): =3D Rodgers ... great sound, very expensive! Allen ... very expensive, =3D sound like wading through a mud hole, pressure to buy. Johannus ... =3D nice sound, extremely high pressure sales tactics from the local dealer. = =3D Galanti ... nice, but not impressed with the build. Eminent ... nice =3D organ! Cantor ... top notch build, by far the best sound quality. =3D20   In the end, we chose Cantor to build a truly fine custom organ for our = =3D home at a price we could afford. The first installed in the USA. And =3D no, I am not a representative of any digital organ company.   Cheers,   Tim ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: G. Deboer=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 11:50 AM Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen     As is usually the case, all the words used between everybody in this = =3D group does nothing to actually describe what a particular brand sounds =3D like. The best thing a potential buyer can do is: Don't listen to anybody = =3D telling you this organ or that organ, as a smart buyer go out and LISTEN = =3D with your own ears what sounds best to you. Reputable dealers will have = =3D several organs in their showrooms or other installations for you to play = =3D or listen to. Also do not make the assumption that just because a few brands have = =3D a certain perceived reputation about quality or have been around longer = =3D than others that they make superior instruments. You will discover that = =3D the opposite may be true. Check out the manufacturers websites, read between the lines, =3D eliminate all the technical jargon since it doesn't mean much, make a =3D list of organs you like to see, then make appointments with the dealers = =3D and spend at least 2 hours with each organ. As always, buyer beware, and your own ears and purse should make the = =3D decision. Don't buy anything until you have at least heard 4 different brands.   Gary   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: TRAVIS EVANS=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen     I am usually not one to jump into the very OLD, and WORN OUT =3D discussion of pipe v. digital and Digital Brand A against Digital Brand = =3D B. However, I do feel compelled for some strange reason to respond to =3D the following.=3D20   Quentsmith@aol.com wrote:=3D20   <<To the questioner: How does it compare to an Allen? The =3D Rodgers is far=3D20 superior to the Allen organ in replay of the sampled sounds, in = =3D the=3D20 reproduction of pipe organ phenonomana and the integration with = =3D actual pipes. >>     As with ANYTHING in this world, preferences are unique to each =3D and every individual. Saying one item is superior to another is =3D subjective. Especially when it comes to sound. There is not one thing = =3D that two people see, hear, feel the same, it is impossible as no two =3D people are alike. Therefore we have slight prejudices against that =3D which we do not like as well. Organs not being exempt from that.   <<3. The Allen does=3D20 not use sampled digital sounds underneath the pipe stops, they =3D only play=3D20 pipes. The Rodgers will play digital sampled sounds along and =3D under the=3D20 pipes, the tuning is adjustable to meet the tuning of the pipes = =3D that day,=3D20 they always change. By having a sampled stop underneath the pipe = =3D stop is an=3D20 advantage two ways. One is if the rank goes for some reason, you = =3D can have it=3D20 reproduced without the loss of the rank, you just play the =3D digital stop.=3D20 Also, if you want to do concerts outside of the hall or church, = =3D you can play=3D20 the organ with all digital stops, moving the console to the site = =3D to be=3D20 played. It can then be hooked up to the pipes again upon =3D return.>>   One should always exhaust all possible information sources =3D before proceeding to make statement. Which it may very well be that =3D some installations do not have the digital stops playing along with the = =3D pipes on SOME Allen pipe/digital combos, it is not the rule. An =3D available option on the Allen is to have 1) Only Digital Stops 2) Pipes = =3D in addition to the Digital stops or 3) have the digital stops that have = =3D a corresponding real Pipe rank to be replaced completely by the Pipes. = =3D Personally I can not see the hassle of removing an entire installation =3D for ONE concert. Because it involves more than just moving the Console.   << Rodgers also has the=3D20 RSS reverb system that plays in quadraphonic sound and is =3D adjustable to 64=3D20 different combinations. The Rodgers goes from small room and =3D wood walls to=3D20 cathedral and marble walls, giving a reverb of 10 seconds or =3D more, the Allen=3D20 has less combinations. Rodgers also uses this with pipes. In a =3D dead room a=3D20 digital organ or a pipe organ has no natural reverberation. Now = =3D digital=3D20 organs have the reverb built in , but Rodgers takes it one step = =3D further with=3D20 their pipe/digital combination. Normally the pipes in a dead =3D room would not=3D20 reverberate but the digital pipe sounds would, setting off a =3D distortion when=3D20 both are played together. Now Rodgers puts omni-directional =3D mikes in the=3D20 pipe chambers at selected points, merges this sound with the =3D digital sounds=3D20 and all the organ sounds now come out in quadraphonic reverb =3D stereo.>>   In my opinion, and which is only opinion, not to be construed to = =3D be a universally accepted view. The digital reverb is a waste. What =3D good is having the organ sound like its in a cathedral when the =3D congregation stops singing their voices to not continue to reverberate, = =3D or in any instrumentalists are playing their sound will not either. I =3D feel that this creates more of a "distortion" than allowing the natural = =3D acoustics of the room to do its 'thing' no matter how good or bad that =3D may be. As might possibly be agreed the room is one of the determining = =3D factors of the success/demise of an instrument.   <<We really love our new Rodgers and we listened to the Allen =3D before making our choice. I would recommend to those that have a =3D dealership of Rodgers or Allen nearby, to go there and listen as the =3D technology for both companies has jumped tremendously in the last two or = =3D three years. You will be surprised, I am sure about how the new digital = =3D organs sound. Not every church or home can afford or have the room for a = =3D pipe organ, though one is ideal, the next best is a digitally sampled =3D pipe sound.=3D20   Quentin Smith>>   I am glad that you are happy with your instrument. However as =3D stated above "go there and listen to the technology for BOTH companies." = =3D Make a decision based on what will best fit the needs of the =3D congregation no matter who the builder is. If we all liked the same =3D thing there wouldn't be the wide variety of builders.   Travis Evans     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C2D467.35CCCF10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>As I said in my original advice, = yours =3D is only one=3D20 opinion and as such is totally useless to&nbsp;the other person ready to = =3D   investigate his or her own purchase.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>A knowledgeable adult is not = influenced =3D by the idle=3D20 sales talk of promoting one instrument over another, no matter what =3D direction it=3D20 comes from.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Sound, Quality construction, Price, = =3D Parts=3D20 availability, that's where it's at.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Caveat Emptor - Buyer =3D Beware.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Gary</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dteahzg@charter.net =3D href=3D3D"mailto:teahzg@charter.net">Teah</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 14, 2003 = =3D 7:21=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How does the =3D Rodgers sound=3D20 compared to an Allen</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Good&nbsp;advice Gary.&nbsp; Buying = a =3D digital=3D20 organ is a major investment and should be very carefully =3D considered.&nbsp; We=3D20 spent nearly 2 years researching, listening, and playing the various =3D brands=3D20 and models that fit our budget.&nbsp; Ultimately, here's what we =3D found(our=3D20 opinion only):&nbsp; Rodgers ... great sound, very expensive!&nbsp; =3D Allen ...=3D20 very expensive, sound like wading through a mud hole, pressure to =3D buy.&nbsp;=3D20 Johannus ... nice sound, extremely high pressure sales =3D tactics&nbsp;from the=3D20 local dealer.&nbsp; Galanti ... nice, but not impressed with the =3D build.&nbsp;=3D20 Eminent ... nice organ!&nbsp; Cantor ... top notch build, by far the =3D best=3D20 sound quality.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>In the end, we chose Cantor to = build =3D a truly fine=3D20 custom organ for&nbsp;our home&nbsp;at a price we could afford.&nbsp; = =3D The=3D20 first installed in&nbsp;the USA.&nbsp; And no, I am not a =3D representative of=3D20 any digital organ company.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tim</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dgdeboer@bluemarble.net =3D href=3D3D"mailto:gdeboer@bluemarble.net">G.=3D20 Deboer</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 14, = =3D 2003 11:50=3D20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How does the =3D Rodgers sound=3D20 compared to an Allen</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>As is usually the case, all the = =3D words used=3D20 between everybody in this group does nothing to actually describe =3D what a=3D20 particular brand sounds like.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>The best thing a potential buyer = =3D can do is:=3D20 Don't listen to anybody telling you this organ or that organ, as a =3D smart=3D20 buyer go out and LISTEN with your own ears what sounds best to =3D you.&nbsp;=3D20 Reputable dealers will have several organs in their showrooms or =3D other=3D20 installations for you to play or listen to.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Also do not make the assumption = =3D that just=3D20 because a few brands have a certain perceived reputation about=3D20 quality&nbsp;or have been around longer than others that they make =3D superior=3D20 instruments.&nbsp; You will discover that the opposite may be=3D20 true.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Check out the =3D manufacturers&nbsp;websites, read=3D20 between the lines, eliminate all the technical jargon since =3D it&nbsp;doesn't=3D20 mean much, make a list of organs you like to see, then make =3D appointments=3D20 with the dealers and spend at least 2 hours with each =3D organ.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>As always, buyer beware, and your = =3D own ears and=3D20 purse should make the decision.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Don't buy anything until you have = =3D at least=3D20 heard 4 different brands.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Gary</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =3D </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3Dtevansmo@prodigy.net =3D href=3D3D"mailto:tevansmo@prodigy.net">TRAVIS=3D20 EVANS</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 14, = =3D 2003 12:00=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How does the = =3D Rodgers=3D20 sound compared to an Allen</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <P>I am usually not one to jump into the very OLD, and WORN OUT =3D discussion=3D20 of pipe v. digital and Digital Brand A against Digital Brand =3D B.&nbsp;=3D20 However, I do feel compelled for some strange reason to respond to = =3D the=3D20 following.=3D20 <P>&nbsp;<B><I><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:Quentsmith@aol.com">Quentsmith@aol.com</A></I></B> = =3D wrote:=3D20 <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff = =3D 2px solid"> <P>&lt;&lt;To the questioner: How does it compare to an Allen? =3D The=3D20 Rodgers is far <BR>superior to the Allen organ in replay of the = =3D sampled=3D20 sounds, in the <BR>reproduction of pipe organ phenonomana and =3D the=3D20 integration with actual pipes. &gt;&gt;<BR></P> <P>As with ANYTHING in this world, preferences are unique to =3D each and=3D20 every individual.&nbsp; Saying one item is superior to another =3D is=3D20 subjective.&nbsp; Especially when it comes to sound.&nbsp; There = =3D is not=3D20 one thing that two people see, hear, feel the same, it is =3D impossible as=3D20 no two people are alike.&nbsp; Therefore we have slight =3D prejudices=3D20 against that which we do not like as well.&nbsp; Organs not =3D being exempt=3D20 from that.</P> <P>&lt;&lt;3. The Allen does <BR>not use sampled digital = sounds=3D20 underneath the pipe stops, they only play <BR>pipes. The Rodgers = =3D will=3D20 play digital sampled sounds along and under the <BR>pipes, the =3D tuning is=3D20 adjustable to meet the tuning of the pipes that day, <BR>they =3D always=3D20 change. By having a sampled stop underneath the pipe stop is = an=3D20 <BR>advantage two ways. One is if the rank goes for some reason, = =3D you can=3D20 have it <BR>reproduced without the loss of the rank, you just =3D play the=3D20 digital stop. <BR>Also, if you want to do concerts outside of =3D the hall=3D20 or church, you can play <BR>the organ with all digital stops, =3D moving the=3D20 console to the site to be <BR>played. It can then be hooked up =3D to the=3D20 pipes again upon return.&gt;&gt;</P> <P>One should always exhaust all possible information sources =3D before=3D20 proceeding to make statement.&nbsp; Which it may very well be =3D that some=3D20 installations do not have the digital stops playing along with =3D the pipes=3D20 on SOME Allen pipe/digital combos, it is not the rule.&nbsp; = An=3D20 available option on the Allen is to have 1) Only Digital Stops =3D 2) Pipes=3D20 in addition to the Digital stops or 3) have the digital stops =3D that have=3D20 a corresponding real Pipe rank to be replaced completely by = the=3D20 Pipes.&nbsp; Personally I can not see the hassle of removing an = =3D entire=3D20 installation for ONE concert.&nbsp; Because it involves more =3D than just=3D20 moving the Console.</P> <P>&lt;&lt;&nbsp;Rodgers also has the <BR>RSS reverb system that = =3D plays=3D20 in quadraphonic sound and is adjustable to 64 <BR>different=3D20 combinations. The Rodgers goes from small room and wood walls to = =3D   <BR>cathedral and marble walls, giving a reverb of 10 seconds or = =3D more,=3D20 the Allen <BR>has less combinations. Rodgers also uses this with = =3D pipes.=3D20 In a dead room a <BR>digital organ or a pipe organ has no =3D natural=3D20 reverberation. Now digital <BR>organs have the reverb built in , = =3D but=3D20 Rodgers takes it one step further with <BR>their pipe/digital=3D20 combination. Normally the pipes in a dead room would not =3D <BR>reverberate=3D20 but the digital pipe sounds would, setting off a distortion when = =3D   <BR>both are played together. Now Rodgers puts omni-directional = =3D mikes in=3D20 the <BR>pipe chambers at selected points, merges this sound with = =3D the=3D20 digital sounds <BR>and all the organ sounds now come out in =3D quadraphonic=3D20 reverb stereo.&gt;&gt;</P> <P>In my opinion, and which is only opinion, not to be construed = =3D to be a=3D20 universally accepted view.&nbsp; The digital reverb is a =3D waste.&nbsp;=3D20 What good is having the organ sound like its in a cathedral when = =3D the=3D20 congregation stops singing their voices to not continue to =3D reverberate,=3D20 or in any instrumentalists are playing their sound will not =3D either. I=3D20 feel that this creates more of a "distortion" than allowing the = =3D natural=3D20 acoustics of the room to do its 'thing' no matter how good or =3D bad that=3D20 may be.&nbsp; As might possibly be agreed the room is one of the = =3D   determining factors of the success/demise of an instrument.</P> <P>&nbsp;&lt;&lt;We really love our new Rodgers and we listened = =3D to the=3D20 Allen before making our choice. I would recommend to those that = =3D have a=3D20 dealership of Rodgers or Allen nearby, to go there and listen as = =3D the=3D20 technology for both companies has jumped tremendously in the =3D last two or=3D20 three years. You will be surprised, I am sure about how the new = =3D digital=3D20 organs sound. Not every church or home can afford or have the =3D room for a=3D20 pipe organ, though one is ideal, the next best is a digitally =3D sampled=3D20 pipe sound. </P> <P>Quentin Smith&gt;&gt;</P> <P>I am glad that you are happy with your instrument.&nbsp; =3D However as=3D20 stated above "go there and listen to the technology for BOTH=3D20 companies."&nbsp; Make a decision based on what will best fit =3D the needs=3D20 of the congregation no matter who the builder is.&nbsp; If we =3D all liked=3D20 the same thing there wouldn't be the wide variety of =3D builders.</P> <P>Travis Evans</P> <P><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked = =3D by AVG=3D20 anti-virus system (<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: = =3D   6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date:=3D20 =3D 2/10/2003</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><= =3D /HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C2D467.35CCCF10--    
(back) Subject: organ dedication (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:12:44 -0800   Received this today:       "St. James Parish 3209 Via Lido Newport Beach CA 92663 949-675-0210   On behalf of our new organist, Dr. Janet Harms, I warmly extend to you an invitation to attend an organ concert and dedication of the John-Paul Buzard pipe organ at our church on Sunday, February 23 at 4 p.m. Our organist for the concert is Tom FOster, organist and director of music at All Saints' Episcopal Church in Beverly Hills.   You'll have a chance to meet Mr. Foster and Mr. Buzard at the reception which follows the program.   Mr. Foster's program includes   Toccata in Fugue in d minor, Bach - BWV 565 Tierce en Taille, Dialogue, Couperin - Mass for the Parishes, Fantasie in f minor, Mozart - KV 594 - Adagio-Allegro-Adagio Saraband in Modo Elegiaco, Howells (1945) Three Early American Hymn Settings, Shearing (Happy Land, Land of Rest, I Love Thee, My Lord) Symphonie V, Widor - Adagio and Toccata.   For directions, visit us online at:   www.stjamesnewportbeach.org   Faithfully,   Karen M. Bro Communications Director"       The organ is 23 straight stops, 28 ranks, across two manuals and pedal.       Cheers,       Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: How does the Rodgers sound compared to an Allen From: "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:35:13 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C2D468.93643360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Gary wrote:   "As I said in my original advice, yours is only one opinion and as such = =3D is totally useless to the other person ready to investigate his or her =3D own purchase. A knowledgeable adult is not influenced by the idle sales talk of =3D promoting one instrument over another, no matter what direction it comes = =3D from. Sound, Quality construction, Price, Parts availability, that's where =3D it's at. Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware."   Gary,     Gary,   Granted, my opinion may be only one, but I fail to see how that =3D opinion is "totally useless". Do you think I am totally clueless? I =3D think not! While I did resent the strong arm sales tactics employed by some =3D dealerships, that was not the deciding factor. For me the potential =3D builders were narrowed to 3: Eminent, Johannus, and Cantor. I chose =3D Cantor for the very reasons you stated. 1. Sound Quality (Musicom =3D System, not Sample Technology). 2. Construction (Hand crafted console) = =3D 3. Price (and warranty) 4. Service. Cantor has met or exceded my =3D expectations and requirements in every instance. Eminent and Johannus, = =3D while fine instruments, could not give me what I wanted in an organ "off = =3D the floor".   Since you are a Johannus Dealer, one can naturally assume that it is =3D in your interest to promote the Johannus product line. Just as it would = =3D be for Rodgers, Allen, or other dealers. The fact that I purchased a =3D digital organ from that other Dutch builder does not invalidate my =3D opinion of all 3. Have you seen, heard, or played a Cantor? I doubt =3D it, since there are only 2 in the US, and you haven't been to my =3D house.... so, what weight should I give your opinion? Rather little I =3D would think.   Respectfully,   Tim     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003 ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C2D468.93643360 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Gary wrote:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>"<FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>As I = said =3D in my original=3D20 advice, yours is only one opinion and as such is totally useless =3D to&nbsp;the=3D20 other person ready to investigate his or her own purchase.</FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>A knowledgeable adult is not = influenced =3D by the idle=3D20 sales talk of promoting one instrument over another, no matter what =3D direction it=3D20 comes from.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Sound, Quality construction, Price, = =3D Parts=3D20 availability, that's where it's at.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Caveat Emptor - Buyer =3D Beware."</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Gary,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Gary,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Granted, my opinion may be only = one, =3D but I fail=3D20 to see how that opinion is "totally useless".&nbsp; Do you think I am = =3D totally=3D20 clueless?&nbsp; I think not!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>While I did resent the strong arm = =3D sales tactics=3D20 employed by some dealerships, that was not the deciding factor.&nbsp; = =3D For me=3D20 the&nbsp;potential builders were narrowed to 3:&nbsp; Eminent, =3D Johannus, and=3D20 Cantor.&nbsp; I chose Cantor for the very reasons you stated.&nbsp; 1. = =3D Sound=3D20 Quality (Musicom System, not Sample Technology).&nbsp; 2. Construction = =3D (Hand=3D20 crafted console)&nbsp; 3.&nbsp; Price (and warranty)&nbsp; 4.=3D20 Service.</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp; Cantor has = met =3D or exceded=3D20 my expectations and requirements in every instance.&nbsp; Eminent = and=3D20 Johannus, while fine instruments, could not give me what I wanted in =3D an organ=3D20 "off the floor".</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Since you are a Johannus Dealer, = one =3D can=3D20 naturally assume that it is in your interest to promote the Johannus =3D product=3D20 line.&nbsp; Just as it would be for Rodgers, Allen, or other =3D dealers.&nbsp;=3D20 The fact that I purchased a digital organ from that other Dutch =3D builder does=3D20 not invalidate my opinion of all 3.&nbsp; Have you seen, heard, or =3D played a=3D20 Cantor?&nbsp; I doubt it, since there are only 2 in the US, and you =3D haven't=3D20 been to my house.... so, what weight should I give your opinion?&nbsp; = =3D Rather=3D20 little I would think.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Respectfully,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Tim</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is = certified =3D Virus=3D20 Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: = =3D 6.0.454=3D20 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date:=3D20 2/10/2003</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0008_01C2D468.93643360--