PipeChat Digest #3468 - Sunday, February 16, 2003
 
Huge Church organs
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
Re: music racks
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
Limited space in 100 rank organs
  by "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net>
Re: DARN!
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
A question about Number of sound producing entities
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: Liking to sleep at night.
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: The Bennett System & Music Rack solution
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
RE: Liking to sleep at night.
  by "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com>
RE: The Bennett System & Music Rack solution
  by "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com>
Re: HUGE CHURCH ORGANS
  by "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com>
Re: A question about Number of sound producing entities - more fuel for t
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Huge Church organs From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:16:42 EST     --part1_75.a410340.2b80e93a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Keith wrote:   >Please, in no way, take this question to be my passing judgement on = any=3D20 >individual, certainly not the one who is designing this organ, but.......   >1.=3DA0 What possible use can a church have for a 5/100+ pipe organ?=3DA0 = (unle=3D ss=3D20 the=3D20 >sanctuary will double as a concert hall). >2.=3DA0 Is there any music for worship (contemporary or traditional,=3D20 conservative=3D20 >or liberal, whatever) that cannot be played very well on a large 3 = manual=3D20 or,=3D20 >at most, a 4 manual?=3DA0 I remember a chapter in a pipe organ book I = read ma=3D ny=3D20 >years ago that, in discussing organs for worship, said that there is no = nee=3D d=3D20   >for more than 3 manuals on a church organ.=3DA0 I realize that he made a = rath=3D er=3D20 >sweeping statement there. >3.=3DA0 What would "actually" be missed if the 5th manual division were = omitt=3D ed=3D20 >and the desired pedal ranks provided?=3DA0 After all, how many manuals = can on=3D e=3D20 >really use in a given piece of music? If several different registrations = ar=3D e=3D20   >needed throughout a piece, can the changes not be made in a more=3D20 >cost-effective way by using pistons? >4.=3DA0 How many $millions does an organ like this cost?=3DA0 I won't ask = the=3D20 >obviously judgemental question of "is that good stewardship?".   >Anyway, those questions are not meant to start a war, just for me to=3D20 >understand some logic behind this.   >Thanks, >Keith   Since I got this thread started, let me address these points one by = one.....   1. The church will seat about 3,000 people. Yes it will double as a = concer=3D t=3D20 hall, in a sense. The "main" church choir--mixed voices, a good 85+=3D20 strong--one of 8 adult choirs, regularly performs with the local=3D20 symphony--who has been known to make concert appearances at the church. = The=3D =3D20 church also has an active concert series, ranging from guest choirs, = to=3D20 vocalists, to instrumental ensembles, to guest organists, etc. The key = word=3D =3D20 here is flexibility. This instrument needs to do be able to lead a = full=3D20 congregation that knows how to sing, accompany an operatic soloist, = accompan=3D y=3D20 the children's choir, play all the major organ literature, play along on = a=3D20 gospel hymn, underscore a dramatic reading, quietly play during a prayer, = an=3D d=3D20 probably do a few other things that I'm forgetting about as I type this.   2. I'm sure there are plenty of good 3 manual organs out there that = lead=3D20 fairly large congregations. How many, though, lead congegations of a = couple=3D =3D20 thousand people by themselves? I know of some large churches with = modest=3D20 instruments who play along with "orchestras" (churchestras), but are = totally=3D =3D20 unable to lead by themselves. The church currently has a 4 manual pipe organ. Why would they want to = get=3D20 something smaller than they already have? This congregation has an = active=3D20 membership of almost 5,000 people. The building they are in now seats = 1,200=3D ..=3D20 There are 4 standing room only services, with overflow seating available = in=3D =3D20 the adult fellowship hall, with live video feed provided by = closed-circuit=3D20 TV. The current organ gasps for breath by the time a service is over = becaus=3D e=3D20 it has been put through it's paces and just barely succeeds. The church = is=3D20 keeping the current building for use as a Christian school (K-12) and = the=3D20 current sanctuary will be used for the school chapel, and for use for = smalle=3D r=3D20 weddings/funerals/etc. The pipe organ will stay in place there.   3. What would be missed if we didn't have 5 manuals.....let me=3D20 think....well, it would actually make two divisions floating divisions. = =3D20 Having played a large (205 ranks) 5 manual instrument for some time, I = feel=3D20 that when you get into the 100+ rank range, and have the possibility = of=3D20 floating divisions or divisions with an actual "home base," it's best to = hav=3D e=3D20 the home manual rather than having everything float to everywhere. I used the top two manuals quite frequently when I was at Calvary. = It's=3D20 times like these that you have to think of who the future organists might = be=3D ..=3D20 While there might be someone who doesn't use it today, who knows what = perso=3D n=3D20 might play it 5 years down the road. =3D20   4. I don't feel that I should tell what the church is spending on the = whole=3D =3D20 building campaign. There are over 100 acres of land that will be = developed=3D20 for the new church campus. They are paid for, no debt is owed. The = organ=3D20 will cost in the millions of dollars range and the cash is sitting in = the=3D20 bank, the church is ready to write a check to pay for it when they know = the=3D20 final total price. The money is raised for the new building, too. Money = is=3D =3D20 not an object here. Everything they are doing they are doing with quality = i=3D n=3D20 mind because they don't want to have to shell out a fortune to fix things. = =3D20 They would rather spend a truckload of cash now and do it right than have = to=3D =3D20 keep paying for things that are falling apart a few years down the road. = I=3D20 won't get into the stewardship fight because this church looks to the = outsid=3D e=3D20 world. They support missionaries around the world, support (with both = time=3D20 and money) homeless shelters, all sorts of community outreach activities = to=3D20 inner-city children and families, and they are setting up a senior citizen's retirement condo tower and = a=3D20 hospice house for those with cancer/HIV/and other fatal illnesses. =3D20 Stewardship is foremost on their mind. It's because of their=3D20 community-mindedness that they have experienced mindblowing growth over = the=3D20 past few years and have the need to expand their chuch plant.   As to the question of digital stops, the organ company made the = suggestion=3D20 because they feel that there isn't enough room for some of the stops we = need=3D =3D20 to fill a room of this size and lead a congregation of this size. They = were=3D =3D20 the ones who suggested to me to think about using digital. The architect = ha=3D s=3D20 a final meeting with them next week. At that point we will know if we = have=3D20 room for a full length 32' Open Wood. If we do, I'd much rather use = real=3D20 pipes, but if not, I'm not going to sacrifice the foundational = undergirding=3D20 and only have a 32' Bourdon. The Celestial division (a few soft echo=3D20 stops/celestes) will be digital regardless, since there is no chamber = space=3D20 in the cieling, nor would we want pipes there for practical purposes = like=3D20 tuning. The electronic Celestial division at Calvary works just fine = for=3D20 what it does. It's not a division that leads, it's just for special = effects=3D =3D20 like underscoring prayers, etc.=3D20   So that's why we are getting a large organ. If you have any questions = or=3D20 flames or anything else, contact me privately, let's not argue about it = on=3D20 the list.   Monty Bennett rmb10@aol.com           --part1_75.a410340.2b80e93a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Keith wrote:<BR> <BR> &gt;Please, in no way, take this question to be my passing judgement on = any=3D20=3D <BR> &gt;individual, certainly not the one who is designing this organ, = but......=3D ..<BR> <BR> &gt;1.=3DA0 What possible use can a church have for a 5/100+ pipe = organ?=3DA0 (u=3D nless the <BR> &gt;sanctuary will double as a concert hall).<BR> &gt;2.=3DA0 Is there any music for worship (contemporary or traditional, = conse=3D rvative <BR> &gt;or liberal, whatever) that cannot be played very well on a large 3 = manua=3D l or, <BR> &gt;at most, a 4 manual?=3DA0 I remember a chapter in a pipe organ book I = read=3D many <BR> &gt;years ago that, in discussing organs for worship, said that there is = no=3D20=3D need <BR> &gt;for more than 3 manuals on a church organ.=3DA0 I realize that he made = a r=3D ather <BR> &gt;sweeping statement there.<BR> &gt;3.=3DA0 What would "actually" be missed if the 5th manual division were om=3D itted <BR> &gt;and the desired pedal ranks provided?=3DA0 After all, how many manuals = can=3D one <BR> &gt;really use in a given piece of music? If several different = registrations=3D are <BR> &gt;needed throughout a piece, can the changes not be made in a more <BR> &gt;cost-effective way by using pistons?<BR> &gt;4.=3DA0 How many $millions does an organ like this cost?=3DA0 I won't = ask th=3D e <BR> &gt;obviously judgemental question of "is that good stewardship?".<BR> <BR> &gt;Anyway, those questions are not meant to start a war, just for me to = <BR=3D > &gt;understand some logic behind this.<BR> <BR> &gt;Thanks,<BR> &gt;Keith<BR> <BR> Since I got this thread started, let me address these points one by = one.....=3D <BR> <BR> 1.&nbsp; The church will seat about 3,000 people.&nbsp; Yes it will double = a=3D s a concert hall, in a sense.&nbsp; The "main" church choir--mixed voices, = a=3D good 85+ strong--one of 8 adult choirs, regularly performs with the local = s=3D ymphony--who has been known to make concert appearances at the = church.&nbsp;=3D The church also has an active concert series, ranging from guest choirs, = to=3D vocalists, to instrumental ensembles, to guest organists, etc.&nbsp; The = ke=3D y word here is flexibility.&nbsp; This instrument needs to do be able to = lea=3D d a full congregation that knows how to sing, accompany an operatic = soloist,=3D accompany the children's choir, play all the major organ literature, play = a=3D long on a gospel hymn, underscore a dramatic reading, quietly play during = a=3D20=3D prayer, and probably do a few other things that I'm forgetting about as I = ty=3D pe this.<BR> <BR> 2.&nbsp; I'm sure there are plenty of good 3 manual organs out there that = le=3D ad fairly large congregations.&nbsp; How many, though, lead congegations = of=3D20=3D a couple thousand people by themselves?&nbsp; I know of some large = churches=3D20=3D with modest instruments who play along with "orchestras" (churchestras), = but=3D are totally unable to lead by themselves.<BR> The church currently has a 4 manual pipe organ.&nbsp; Why would they want = to=3D get something smaller than they already have?&nbsp; This congregation has = a=3D n active membership of almost 5,000 people.&nbsp; The building they are in = n=3D ow seats 1,200.&nbsp; There are 4 standing room only services, with = overflow=3D seating available in the adult fellowship hall, with live video feed = provid=3D ed by closed-circuit TV.&nbsp; The current organ gasps for breath by the = tim=3D e a service is over because it has been put through it's paces and just = bare=3D ly succeeds.&nbsp; The church is keeping the current building for use as a = C=3D hristian school (K-12) and the current sanctuary will be used for the = school=3D chapel, and for use for smaller weddings/funerals/etc.&nbsp; The pipe = organ=3D will stay in place there.<BR> <BR> 3.&nbsp; What would be missed if we didn't have 5 manuals.....let me = think..=3D ...well, it would actually make two divisions floating divisions.&nbsp; = Havin=3D g played a large (205 ranks) 5 manual instrument for some time, I feel = that=3D20=3D when you get into the 100+ rank range, and have the possibility of = floating=3D20=3D divisions or divisions with an actual "home base," it's best to have the = hom=3D e manual rather than having everything float to everywhere.<BR> I used the top two manuals quite frequently when I was at Calvary.&nbsp; = It'=3D s times like these that you have to think of who the future organists = might=3D20=3D be.&nbsp; While there might be someone who doesn't use it today, who knows = w=3D hat person might play it 5 years down the road.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> 4.&nbsp; I don't feel that I should tell what the church is spending on = the=3D20=3D whole building campaign.&nbsp; There are over 100 acres of land that will = be=3D developed for the new church campus.&nbsp; They are paid for, no debt is = ow=3D ed.&nbsp; The organ will cost in the millions of dollars range and the = cash=3D20=3D is sitting in the bank, the church is ready to write a check to pay for it = w=3D hen they know the final total price.&nbsp; The money is raised for the new b=3D uilding, too.&nbsp; Money is not an object here.&nbsp; Everything they are = d=3D oing they are doing with quality in mind because they don't want to have = to=3D20=3D shell out a fortune to fix things.&nbsp; They would rather spend a = truckload=3D of cash now and do it right than have to keep paying for things that are = fa=3D lling apart a few years down the road.&nbsp; I won't get into the = stewardshi=3D p fight because this church looks to the outside world.&nbsp; They support = m=3D issionaries around the world, support (with both time and money) homeless = sh=3D elters, all sorts of community outreach activities to inner-city children = an=3D d families,<BR> and they are setting up a senior citizen's retirement condo tower and a = hosp=3D ice house for those with cancer/HIV/and other fatal illnesses.&nbsp; = Steward=3D ship is foremost on their mind.&nbsp; It's because of their = community-minded=3D ness that they have experienced mindblowing growth over the past few years = a=3D nd have the need to expand their chuch plant.<BR> <BR> As to the question of digital stops, the organ company made the suggestion = b=3D ecause they feel that there isn't enough room for some of the stops we = need=3D20=3D to fill a room of this size and lead a congregation of this size.&nbsp; = They=3D were the ones who suggested to me to think about using digital.&nbsp; The = a=3D rchitect has a final meeting with them next week.&nbsp; At that point we = wil=3D l know if we have room for a full length 32' Open Wood.&nbsp; If we do, = I'd=3D20=3D much rather use real pipes, but if not, I'm not going to sacrifice the = found=3D ational undergirding and only have a 32' Bourdon.&nbsp; The Celestial = divisi=3D on (a few soft echo stops/celestes) will be digital regardless, since = there=3D20=3D is no chamber space in the cieling, nor would we want pipes there for = practi=3D cal purposes like tuning.&nbsp; The electronic Celestial division at = Calvary=3D works just fine for what it does.&nbsp; It's not a division that leads, = it'=3D s just for special effects like underscoring prayers, etc. <BR> <BR> So that's why we are getting a large organ.&nbsp; If you have any = questions=3D20=3D or flames or anything else, contact me privately, let's not argue about it = o=3D n the list.<BR> <BR> Monty Bennett<BR> rmb10@aol.com<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_75.a410340.2b80e93a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: music racks From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:17:51 EST     --part1_6b.a28e41c.2b80e97f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   There was a music rack on ebay for less than $10 with a lattice style. = (the shipping was more). I thought about ordering it, however thought again because of what Gary said about not being able to write on the music. I = will continue with my solid wood rack, and following the director by radar. On another note, my son tried to commit suicide last week and is in a = locked unit of a psychiatric hospital at this time. Please pray for him and his family. Lee   --part1_6b.a28e41c.2b80e97f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#400040" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">There was a music rack on = ebay for=3D20=3D less than $10 with&nbsp; a lattice style.&nbsp; (the shipping was = more).&nbs=3D p; I thought about ordering it, however thought again because of what Gary = s=3D aid about not being able to write on the music.&nbsp; I will continue with = m=3D y solid wood rack, and following the director by radar. <BR> On another note, my son tried to commit suicide last week and is in a = locked=3D unit of a psychiatric hospital at this time.&nbsp; Please pray for him = and=3D20=3D his family.&nbsp; Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_6b.a28e41c.2b80e97f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Limited space in 100 rank organs From: "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:42:26 -0500   All:   Mr. Gluck makes no apology for his distain of "fake" or "artificial" stops added to a pipe organ. In the above instances where the 100 +rank organs needed more stops added to its deficient stoplist (I can't imagine how 100 ranks in any building could be "deficient"), the three 32' open stops = would represent a huge investment in money AND space. I would rather see the = space be occupied by additional stops of "color" , and "umpteen" ranks of undulating celestes and substitute the huge, sace hungry expensive 32' = pedal stops with digital space saving additions. My experience has found that a digital 32' (flues and reeds) pedal addition is almost the same as the = real thing. The fact that they take up a lot of space in the organ chamber and gobble up huge amounts of wind, never mind the obscene cost, presents a = good case for the digital "fake","artificial" addition. With very few = exceptions, I found digital pedal additions to be an asset to the organ. Digital = manual additions are a whole new category, and I agree with Mr. Gluck, 100%.   Antoni Scott    
(back) Subject: Re: DARN! From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:57:56 -0600   Rich.....there's no "c" in my last name.....you didn't get it spelled right. LOL bertsChinger....puleeze...LOL       J  
(back) Subject: A question about Number of sound producing entities From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:14:43 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Hi all-   <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote:   > In the pipe versus other types debate, consider then number of sound > sources, and how they move the air around the listener.   As a "100% pipeorgler" I am not so acquainted with Digital-sampling, but I am eager to learn. What TubaMagna states here touches a point I am = wondering about since my student days.   In a pipe organ, EACH pipe is its own sound generator and source. To achieve the same effect in = a digital, *each note on each stop* would need a) an own tone generator and = b) an own speaker. For more sophisticated natures, an own sampling from the original pipe of that specific pitch ( to sample the original tonal finish), and perhaps an own resonator over each speaker to move an corresponding air column. For even more sophisticated, the = speakers doesn't have to be round but irregular shaped to achieve a "natural imperfect sound". Yahama made this kind of speakers for their spinets,if = my memory doesn't fail.   *Am I right with this? *Is actual sampling done pipe by pipe or only stop by stop average?   Of course this remains merely theorethical, because 1000+ tone generators plus their speakers (for a mid sized instrument) would blow the cost, = weight and space problems into science fiction dimensions.   Just interested Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, than was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: RE: Liking to sleep at night. From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:20:50 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   A simillar thing happened to me in 1989, when the folks of the La Salle = High came hand wringing because a "technician" said that the complete set of = the direct action magnets (several hundreds) had to be rewound- a job that = would have cost more than a hundred Grands. An outburned set of D.A. magnets?- hmmm. Quite impossible since they're = "in use" only for seconds, even fractions of a second. When I examined the = organ it came out that the offending direct action magnets only had lost their regulation after 23 years; the regulation was done by a single, well visible wormscrew. Cost point: 30 Grands (Bolivars, of course) for regulation plus maintenance job. I never will know if the "technician" was an ignorant or a swindler.   Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D First was the cat, than was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Re: The Bennett System & Music Rack solution From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:00:49 -0600   Richard: we used "space age, non scratching hi $$$ polimer stuff"....and guess what? the first "organist" put her praise song book on the shelf and put a big scratch all the way across the rack. then they wanted all glass....this place has been a real pain that way...then the same organist "dropped" the new music rack on the manuals, and it shattered into small ball like pieces of glass....     Jon.   p.s. have a good trip.  
(back) Subject: RE: Liking to sleep at night. From: "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:11:30 -0600   Andres, perhaps both? >:-{)}   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Andr=E9s G=FCnther Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:21 AM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Liking to sleep at night.     Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   A simillar thing happened to me in 1989, when the folks of the La Salle H= igh came hand wringing because a "technician" said that the complete set of t= he direct action magnets (several hundreds) had to be rewound- a job that wo= uld have cost more than a hundred Grands. An outburned set of D.A. magnets?- hmmm. Quite impossible since they're "= in use" only for seconds, even fractions of a second. When I examined the or= gan it came out that the offending direct action magnets only had lost their regulation after 23 years; the regulation was done by a single, well visible wormscrew. Cost point: 30 Grands (Bolivars, of course) for regulation plus maintenance job. I never will know if the "technician" was an ignorant or a swindler.   Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D First was the cat, than was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about.     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: RE: The Bennett System & Music Rack solution From: "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:11:31 -0600   *shudders horribly*....wood, it's not just for dining room tables any = more. :-{\}   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of jon bertschinger Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 1:01 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: The Bennett System & Music Rack solution     Richard: we used "space age, non scratching hi $$$ polimer stuff"....and guess what? the first "organist" put her praise song book on the shelf and put a big scratch all the way across the rack. then they wanted all glass....this place has been a real pain that way...then the same organist "dropped" the new music rack on the manuals, and it shattered into small ball like pieces of glass....     Jon.   p.s. have a good trip.   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: HUGE CHURCH ORGANS From: "D. Keith Morgan" <aeolian_skinner@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:18:48 -0800 (PST)   Someone asked "What possible use does a church have with a 5/100+ organ?"   In every instance I have ever seen, the reason for having five manuals is simply to outdo another church by having more keyboards. In once instance I know, a certain church bought a 5 manual organ (Positiv prepared for which gives it one blank keyboard) because another church across town had a four manual organ that was larger. If the church across town had 8 manuals and 900 ranks of pipes, they would have at least 9 manuals and 1,000 ranks of pipes.   These 5 manual consoles look nice on television, too.   A church I know of paid $650,000 for a 5 manual electronic organ that looks very impressive on television and at church (the console is turned so it can be seen). It is in a very "contemporary" setting, and is used with a concert grand piano and a small orchestra. You can't hear it, but you certainly can see it. This church, at the time of the organ installation, had the largest electronic organ in the world and made absolutely certain that everyone knew that until about three months later when a church in another city installed a bigger one and put them in second place.   The other church was another "contemporary" setting, also. This must have been what Shakespeare was thinking when he wrote his play "Much Ado About Nothing.   D. Keith Morgan   __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: A question about Number of sound producing entities - more fuel for the fire From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:26:08 EST     --part1_147.acd2b51.2b813fd0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Andres, et al...   another remaining challenge of this whole business is that speakers = radiate sound in a "beam" as opposed to organ pipes which radiate sound in (more = or less)a 360 degree pattern...so the reflection of those (pipe) radiated = sound waves has spatial and phaae-related effects that speakers can not = replicate. speaker-generated sound may bouce off the walls and ceiling of a room, but =   don't come anywhere near the complex additive and cancelling actions of = the sound waves of organ pipes.   Rick in VA   --part1_147.acd2b51.2b813fd0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>Andres, et al... <BR> <BR>another remaining challenge of this whole business is that speakers = radi=3D ate sound in a "beam" as opposed to organ pipes which radiate sound in = (more=3D or less)a 360 degree pattern...so the reflection of those (pipe) radiated = s=3D ound waves has spatial and phaae-related effects that speakers can not = repli=3D cate. speaker-generated sound may bouce off the walls and ceiling of a = room,=3D but don't come anywhere near the complex additive and cancelling actions = of=3D the sound waves of organ pipes. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_147.acd2b51.2b813fd0_boundary--