PipeChat Digest #3476 - Tuesday, February 18, 2003
 
Re: organs...sizes, locations, etc.
  by <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com>
Re: How does theTurkey sound ? (was Roges vs Allen)
  by "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk>
Re: Plastic Music racks
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: Pipe organ replaced by electronic... A Case at the other end of the s
  by "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com>
Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: A question about Number of sound producing entities
  by <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)
  by "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com>
Thomas Murray @ Cincy's Union Terminal bldg
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)
  by <lindr@cch.com>
Re: Plastic Music racks
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
reed resonator repair
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
RE: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)
  by "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu>
Gemshorns "Celestes"
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: organs...sizes, locations, etc. From: <DarrylbytheSea@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:44:38 EST     --part1_1da.3047236.2b8376a6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi, Y'all!   In a message dated 2/17/2003 7:32:13 PM Central Standard Time, jonberts@magiccablepc.com writes:   > The real reason for sizable instruments is not power, but a > greater tonal palette to play from.   I do agree that part of the need for a large instrument is the greater variety of colors, but a large room needs a large organ. Period. The Coral =   Ridge room is 85 feet from floor to ceiling and seats just a smidge over 2,000. Then, if you add on the 5-story grand narthex which flows directly from the sanctuary with no wall or doors, then you have a tremendous = amount of space.   I remember when Fred Swan was asked why the Calvary Charlotte organ was so =   large his comment was something to the fact that a large organ was need to =   fill such a large space with sound. It's true.   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea   --part1_1da.3047236.2b8376a6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" = FACE=3D =3D3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi, Y'all!<BR> <BR> In a message dated 2/17/2003 7:32:13 PM Central Standard Time, = jonberts@magi=3D ccablepc.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"A=3D rial" LANG=3D3D"0">The real reason for sizable instruments is not power, = but a=3D <BR> greater tonal palette to play from.&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D3D"Comic Sans MS" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> I do agree that part of the need for a large instrument is the greater = varie=3D ty of colors, but a large room needs a large organ. Period. The Coral = Ridge=3D20=3D room is 85 feet from floor to ceiling and seats just a smidge over 2,000. = Th=3D en, if you add on the 5-story grand narthex which flows directly from the = sa=3D nctuary with no wall or doors, then you have a tremendous amount of space. = <=3D BR> <BR> I remember when Fred Swan was asked why the Calvary Charlotte organ was so = l=3D arge his comment was something to the fact that a large organ was need to = fi=3D ll such a large space with sound. It's true.<BR> <BR> Yours,<BR> <BR> Darryl by the Sea</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1da.3047236.2b8376a6_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: How does theTurkey sound ? (was Roges vs Allen) From: "MusicMan" <musicman@cottagemusic.co.uk> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:52:14 -0000   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_011D_01C2D52B.BC7528E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Coming rather late to this discussion (discussion ?), my opinion (and =3D don't forget, I'm sharing the wisdom of fifty odd years- for free !) is = =3D that the Internet is exactly the place to be mentioning names and =3D informing others of the various brands in question. How else do we avoid the Turkeys?   Salesmanship is self-evident and self-defeating; genuine enthusiasm for = =3D a product to which you have given consideration and then spent your =3D hard-earned bucks upon (and equally hard-earned Pounds) is the best =3D recommendation.   Harry (musicman) Regardless of what brand I may represent or which product I may own = =3D at this time, the internet and most certainly this pipechat group is not = =3D the place to promote or even mention your favorite digital organ brand. = =3D   =3D20     ------=3D_NextPart_000_011D_01C2D52B.BC7528E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1 =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 = =3D Transitional//EN"> <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>   </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Coming rather late to this =3D discussion=3D20 (discussion ?), my opinion (<EM>and don't forget, I'm sharing the wisdom = =3D of=3D20 fifty odd years- for free !</EM>) is that the Internet is <U>exactly</U> = =3D the=3D20 place to be mentioning names and informing others of the various brands = =3D in=3D20 question.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D3D2>How else = do we =3D avoid the=3D20 Turkeys?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Salesmanship is self-evident and self-defeating; =3D genuine=3D20 enthusiasm for a product to which you have given consideration and then = =3D spent=3D20 your hard-earned bucks upon (and equally hard-earned Pounds) is the best = =3D   recommendation.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Harry=3D20 (musicman)</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = =3D 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Regardless of what brand I may = =3D represent or=3D20 which product I may own at this time, the internet and most =3D certainly this=3D20 pipechat group is not the place to promote or even mention your =3D favorite=3D20 digital organ brand.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial =3D size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_011D_01C2D52B.BC7528E0--    
(back) Subject: Re: Plastic Music racks From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:24:34 -0600   "FREE" to the highest "BIDDER"? hmmmm sounds like an oxymoron to me <G>   you should hang on to it, it's great as backing material when you are cutting materials with a blade or rolling cutter....usually pretty smooth.   just a suggestion.   jon bertschinger  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe organ replaced by electronic... A Case at the other end of the spectrum From: "Mattcinnj" <mattcinnj@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:41:12 -0800 (PST)   --0-600230375-1045579272=3D:30083 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii     Hi All,   We have been iced in since Sat. evening up here in the mountains of NC, = and hence my chattyness of late.   Even up here, in the woods (30 miles south of Asheville) we have a good = variety of pipe organs and I would like to cite a case which is just = about the exact opposite of a pipe organ being unappreciated.   The local Methodist Church has recently had their 1950's Schantz rebuilt = by Schantz. No ranks were added, not a single pipe replaced, although a = new console was added. No MIDI and no digital voices. The cost was over = $200K.   It is about 26 ranks in size BUT a majority of these ranks are really = extended to 73 and 85 notes to provide for very judicious unification, and = full use of sub and super couplers. I think there is only one actual 16 = foot pedal flue rank. After seeing the spec. I was sure this was a waste = of money and could not understand why the organ was keep totally "as is".   The night of the organ re-dedication was very, rainy and I was sure that I = would be one of the few organ nuts crazy enough to venture out.   What I found was that I couldn't park within 2 blocks of the church, and = people were squeezed into every spare space inside. People came in wheel = chairs, with walkers, and represented every age group. Not only the = current organist, but several other local organists played, as did one of = the first organists (still surviving) on that instrument and the first = student that ever took lessons on the organ !!!!!   What a Love -Fest. The organ had been endowed from day one for about 50 = years, had been serving as a practice instrument for the local college, = and had a regular concert series funded mostly by the ongoing organ fund. = What other funds were needed for the rennovation were raised without much = effort.   From the comments made at the console during the ceremony, it became clear = that the original designer of the organ was still lovenly remembered, the = organ was loved, the people who donated the organ and established the fund = were all remembered with gratitude. This organ meant alot to alot of = people. It had played a big part in the fabric of the community.   This explained why it was not "enhanced" during the rebuild.   How did this "dated" organ sound ? In a word Beautiful .... but I have an = idea that now matter how is sounded, it was still wonderful to everyone = there that night.     Matt         --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day --0-600230375-1045579272=3D:30083 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii   <P>Hi All,</P> <P>We have been iced in since Sat. evening up here in the mountains of NC, = and hence my chattyness of late.</P> <P>Even up here, in the woods (30 miles south of Asheville) we have a good = variety of pipe organs and I would like to&nbsp; cite a case which is just = about the exact opposite of a pipe organ being unappreciated.</P> <P>The local Methodist Church has&nbsp;recently had their 1950's Schantz = rebuilt by Schantz. No ranks were added,&nbsp; not a single pipe replaced, = although&nbsp;a new console was added.&nbsp;No MIDI and no digital voices. = The cost was over $200K.</P> <P>&nbsp;It is about 26 ranks in size BUT a majority of these ranks are = really extended&nbsp;to 73 and 85 notes to provide for very judicious = unification, and full use of sub and super couplers.&nbsp;I think there is = only one actual 16 foot&nbsp;pedal flue rank. &nbsp;After seeing the spec. = I was sure this was a waste of money and could not understand why the = organ was keep totally "as is".</P> <P>The night of the organ re-dedication was very, rainy and I was sure = that I would be one of the few organ nuts crazy enough to venture = out.&nbsp; </P> <P>What I found was that I couldn't park within 2 blocks of the church, = and people were squeezed into every spare space inside. People came in = wheel chairs, with walkers, and represented every age group.&nbsp;Not only = the current organist, but several other local organists played, as did one of the first organists (still surviving)&nbsp;on that instrument = and the first student that ever took lessons on the organ !!!!!</P> <P>What a Love -Fest. The organ had been endowed from day one for about 50 = years, had been serving as a practice instrument for the local college, = and had a regular concert series funded mostly by the ongoing organ fund. = What other funds were needed for the rennovation were raised without much = effort.</P> <P>From the comments made at the console during the ceremony, it became = clear that the original designer of the organ was still lovenly = remembered, the organ was loved, the people who donated the organ and = established the fund were all remembered with gratitude. This organ meant = alot to alot of people. It had played a big part in the fabric of the = community.</P> <P>This explained why it was not "enhanced" during the rebuild.</P> <P>How did this "dated" organ sound ?&nbsp; In a word Beautiful .... but I = have an idea that now matter how is sounded, it was still wonderful to = everyone there that night.</P> <P>&nbsp;</P> <P>Matt</P> <P>&nbsp;</P><p><br><hr size=3D1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a = href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/O=3D1/I=3Dbrandr/vday03/text/flow/*http://shopp= ing.yahoo.com /shop?d=3Dbrowse&id=3D20146735">Yahoo! Shopping</a> - Send Flowers for = Valentine's Day --0-600230375-1045579272=3D:30083--  
(back) Subject: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations) From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:00:46 EST   Dear PipeChatters: The usefulness of an organ stop is dependent upon the individual organist; if you inherit an instrument designed by your predecessor who consulted with a knowledgeable organbuilder, and the organ was new or underwent substantial change and enlargement, there is probably a good = deal of reasoning behind the stoplist. The literature tells us what stops go where. Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' Larigots in the Swell, along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in the middle of a = mutation series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. The only undulant is = a Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature written. These are situations in which critical issues of usefulness (as opposed to issues of =   quality) arise in smaller organ design. Prepared stops in a specification give a better idea of where the = builder was trying to go; they are his blueprint, a rational master plan of his vision. Preparations are not necessarily "useless" stops, but rather the = less critical stops. It is better to prepare the Swell 16' reed than it is to prepare the 8' Principal. Organ projects and organ care (as everybody on this list knows by this =   point) can be halted mid-stream by a change of clergy, a change of organ-player, or mysterious changes in, or disappearance of, funding. If a =   builder isn't getting paid, or loses money every time they walk through = the church portals, everybody suffers. If the church cannot afford to build = or complete an organ, the builder cannot afford to build it for them. Since = the builder's name is attached to the instrument, they will usually do their best, at whatever cost to them, until things become unbearable. Does a good organbuilder really put useless stops in an organ just to enhance its size? Think rationally -- every instrument is an = advertisement. The current organist may not grasp the point of a certain stop, but their predecessor and successor most likely will.  
(back) Subject: Re: A question about Number of sound producing entities From: <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:42:33 -0500   >From: cdkrug@worldnet.att.net   >At some point, it stops sounding human. The actual Human/Alvin point >varies with the speaker, and there's a wide transition range where it >just sounds "wrong" for whatever reason.   (I assume that by "speaker" you mean "talker", not "loudspeaker".)   The reason is that the formants shift if all you do is change the speed of = the samples. I forget the exact intervals, but the formants of a male voice = differ from those of a female voice by something like a minor third. Shift the formants another half step or so, and you get a child's voice. If you try = to turn a male voice into a female voice by playing it back at a speed corresponding the the difference in fundamental frequencies, you get = Alvin.   In a voice, the formants are a function of throat and mouth geometry. In = an organ, it's the case/chamber/room acoustics. Also in an organ, you have = to account for the fact that the pipes aren't scaled linearly, unless the = scale halves at the octave.   If you sample every pipe, you account for these effects. If you sample = only a few, you get an Alvin Organ.   Dick  
(back) Subject: Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations) From: "littlebayus@yahoo.com" <littlebayus@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:56:10 -0800 (PST)     --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: > Dear PipeChatters: > The usefulness of an organ stop is dependent > upon the individual > organist; if you inherit an instrument designed by > your predecessor who > consulted with a knowledgeable organbuilder, and the > organ was new or > underwent substantial change and enlargement, there > is probably a good deal > of reasoning behind the stoplist. > The literature tells us what stops go where. > Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' > Larigots in the Swell,   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mr. Gluck,   My first question:   Would you be good enough to share a suggestion with the list?   In a two manual organ of modest resources, if a 1 1/3' Larigot is included, what other ranks should be included to keep the Larigot company? And where should the Larigot be placed?   I must hasten to add that the organs I have played are small, and have not included a Larigot...     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     > along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in > the middle of a mutation > series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. > The only undulant is a > Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature > written. These are > situations in which critical issues of usefulness > (as opposed to issues of > quality) arise in smaller organ design. > Prepared stops in a specification give a better > idea of where the builder > was trying to go; they are his blueprint, a rational > master plan of his > vision. Preparations are not necessarily "useless" > stops, but rather the less > critical stops.   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   It is better to prepare the Swell > 16' reed than it is to > prepare the 8' Principal.   My second question:   Would you be good enough to mention some other situations where it is better to prepare the ---- than it is to prepare the -----?   Many thanks.   Respectfully,   Morton Belcher fellow list member...   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     > Organ projects and organ care (as everybody on > this list knows by this > point) can be halted mid-stream by a change of > clergy, a change of > organ-player, or mysterious changes in, or > disappearance of, funding. If a > builder isn't getting paid, or loses money every > time they walk through the > church portals, everybody suffers. If the church > cannot afford to build or > complete an organ, the builder cannot afford to > build it for them. Since the > builder's name is attached to the instrument, they > will usually do their > best, at whatever cost to them, until things become > unbearable. > Does a good organbuilder really put useless > stops in an organ just to > enhance its size? Think rationally -- every > instrument is an advertisement. > The current organist may not grasp the point of a > certain stop, but their > predecessor and successor most likely will. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Thomas Murray @ Cincy's Union Terminal bldg From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:03:51 -0500   Greetings,   Did anyone attend the Thomas Murray concert on the E.M. Skinner at = Cincinnati's Union Station Terminal bldg?   Would you care to submit a review for those such as I who could not attend = due to excessive snow levels?   Many Thanks,   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations) From: <lindr@cch.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:20:29 -0600             I'm an organist who hasn't played every proper stop in the world, and I'm wondering about two things in this post.   What is a Cornet Separe? Is it like a mounted cornet? Don't many Cornets that are proper examples of their kind have Principals, not Flutes, for their 4', 2 2/3', 2', 1/35' ranks? Seems I've played many an unsuccessful Cornet that failed because it was made up of poopy flutes that couldn't = cut the mustard, if I may mix some metaphors.   As to Gemshorns and their celestes, I loved the one on the 1920 Austin at St. James Cathedral, Chicago, where I labored for 6 years as a young man. It was (and I hope it's still there) one of the finest sounds on an instrument that was truly in need of anything exemplary it could lay claim to. I've often preferred a Gemshorn and celeste to a rival Salicional, Viole, and/or Gamba. I guess I'm talking about American instruments built before 1970. Perhaps builders today are so savvy in their production of gorgeous string tone that Gemshorns can be mocked and derided, poor = things. Rotten as they may be, I'm sure I've seen literature for which a Gemshorn has expressly been listed for suggested registration. And if not, the next time I write a piece of slush, I'm going to put it in, so that in some small way I might help justify its existence.   Bob Lind     TubaMagna writes: The literature tells us what stops go where. Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' Larigots in the Swell, along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in the middle of a mutation series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. The only undulant is = a   Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature written.        
(back) Subject: Re: Plastic Music racks From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:43:27 EST     --part1_1c3.5332ca4.2b83bcaf_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Tim, if no one else has spoken for it first, I will pay shipping, Lee   --part1_1c3.5332ca4.2b83bcaf_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#400040" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D =3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Tim, if no one else has = spoken for=3D20=3D it first, I will pay shipping,&nbsp; Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1c3.5332ca4.2b83bcaf_boundary--  
(back) Subject: reed resonator repair From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:03:31 -0500   Greetings,   Can anyone recommend someone reliable to do repairs on a 16' Tuba offset?   Is David Broom, now retired from Austin Organs, still available for such = work?   Please reply privately to me.   Musically,   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: RE: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations) From: "Elders, Craig" <c.elders@tcu.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:04:04 -0600       -----Original Message----- From: lindr@cch.com [mailto:lindr@cch.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:20 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)               I'm an organist who hasn't played every proper stop in the world, and = I'm wondering about two things in this post.   What is a Cornet Separe? Is it like a mounted cornet? Don't many Cornets that are proper examples of their kind have Principals, not Flutes, for their 4', 2 2/3', 2', 1/35' ranks? Seems I've played many an = unsuccessful Cornet that failed because it was made up of poopy flutes that couldn't = cut the mustard, if I may mix some metaphors.   As to Gemshorns and their celestes, I loved the one on the 1920 Austin = at St. James Cathedral, Chicago, where I labored for 6 years as a young = man. It was (and I hope it's still there) one of the finest sounds on an instrument that was truly in need of anything exemplary it could lay = claim to. I've often preferred a Gemshorn and celeste to a rival Salicional, Viole, and/or Gamba. I guess I'm talking about American instruments = built before 1970. Perhaps builders today are so savvy in their production of gorgeous string tone that Gemshorns can be mocked and derided, poor = things. Rotten as they may be, I'm sure I've seen literature for which a = Gemshorn has expressly been listed for suggested registration. And if not, the = next time I write a piece of slush, I'm going to put it in, so that in some small way I might help justify its existence.   Bob Lind     TubaMagna writes: The literature tells us what stops go where. Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' Larigots in the = Swell, along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in the middle of a mutation series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. The only undulant = is a   Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature written.         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Gemshorns "Celestes" From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:16:41 EST   Yes, they are lovely stops. I love to use them. But if one is designing and building a small pipe organ, and one wants = to play the literature for which undulants were written, the Salicional (or Gambe) and Voix Celeste are the sounds imagined, written for, and played = by those who wrote for such stops. Cutting, biting, slotted strings are not = just the accurate tone for the late French literature, they provide one other effect: a very Clarinet-like composite tone when used with the Swell = flute. For those playing exclusively early Italian literature, I guess I'm wrong = -- go for the Principale Cantabile and the Voce Umana pairing. While I have learned that people on organ chat lists are rabidly and militantly opposed to academically-inclined organbuilding, future = generations of musicians may wish to perform the literature with some degree of tonal accuracy. As I said in a previous post, which may not have been read, it is WONDERFUL to have nine sets of graduated undulants with which to create a myriad of effects. But when a builder is accepting money to build a good pipe organ, they should try to make that instrument useful and instructive =   for the future.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City