PipeChat Digest #3477 - Tuesday, February 18, 2003
 
Recent postings re Rodgers
  by "Chester H Berry" <cberry@pop.burgoyne.com>
RE: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)
  by "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net>
"Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by <lindr@cch.com>
RE: Even Bigger than Huge Pipe Organs
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: This vs that kind of instrument
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3476 - 02/18/03
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
Re: This vs that kind of instrument
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
 

(back) Subject: Recent postings re Rodgers From: "Chester H Berry" <cberry@pop.burgoyne.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:33:55 -0700   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C2D739.3CE5DC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Posted on behalf of Rodgers by List Member cberry   The poster of the recent Rodgers, Allen, flowers that bloom, tra la =3D message is more than half a bubble off. The local Rodgers dealer told me = =3D the man must not even have a clue relative to what he decided to talk =3D about. =3D20   For starters, Rodgers has been owned by Roland Corporation - a publicly = =3D traded company and the world's largest builder of digital musical =3D instruments for 15 years. Prior to that Rodgers was owned by Steinway =3D Pianos - Steinway and Rodgers had both been part of CBS Musical =3D Instruments, a division of CBS, Inc.   There has been little turnover in Rodgers R & D, most of the Rodgers =3D engineers who developed the PDI in 1990, as the world's first stereo, =3D two generator per note organ system, are still at Rodgers and continuing = =3D to turn out new innovations. Granted a couple have retired, but there =3D just hasn't been much turnover in R & D in Hillsboro. Even John =3D McFerran who helped Rodgers develop and introduce the world's first =3D microprocessor organs in 1980 is still busy in Rodgers R & D. Fred =3D Tinker, Rodgers co-founder, did retire a few years ago after 40 years in = =3D the business.   The lighted rocker tabs the post referred to were the LED stoptabs of =3D Rodgers analog organs of the early 1980. These LED rocker tabs predated = =3D Allen's use of LED controls by more than 20 years. Rodgers discontinued = =3D their LED controls many years ago in favor of the current lighted stop =3D tablets which organists overwhelmingly prefer. Rodgers found organists = =3D don't like LED controls as well as lighted tabs.   An inventory tax on imported parts is a myth. But, what was the point? = =3D Rodgers parts are made in Hillsboro, Oregon. Rodgers stocks or can =3D create parts for any Rodgers Organ ever built. This goes back to the =3D 50s. Technical documentation and parts support is available for any =3D Rodgers and Rodgers feels its commitment to such support is beyond that = =3D of any other organ builder. All Rodgers are designed for minimum parts = =3D and service support of 40 years or more. A large inventory of parts to = =3D support Rodgers older analog organs is maintained in Hillsboro. If they = =3D don't have the part in stock, they will build it for you when it is =3D needed.   Rodgers does use custom Roland DSP chips optimized for stereo musical =3D instrument use. Other parts may come from US companies - Intel, Texas =3D Instruments, AMD, etc or foreign manufacturing sources. Look at the =3D Allen boards and you'll see Malaysia stamped all over many of the parts = =3D - all high tech products use parts from all over the world these days. = =3D Again what was the point?   Rodgers Field Service, Technical Service and Parts Departments provide =3D email or telephone support, parts, technical training publications and =3D seminars for dealer and independent service people beyond that of any =3D other organ company. That is simply fact. Rodgers fully supports MITA = =3D - Musical Instrument Technicians Association and underwrites yearly =3D classes for MITA technicians at their annual week long training in Las =3D Vegas.=3D20   He is correct that technicians are not given a 800 number to call the =3D Rodgers staff technicians assigned full time to answer calls and assist = =3D local technicians with parts, technical documentations, troubleshooting = =3D ideas, etc. If Allen has an 800 number for such calls, they don't seem = =3D to publish it either. What was the point here?   Anyway, it just proves because someone posts something on the Internet, = =3D doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. I'm convinced no =3D organ company supports their installed base of instruments better than =3D Rodgers. I also suggest going to your local Rodgers dealer or direct to = =3D Rodgers rather than put an credence in misinformed claims about problems = =3D that probably exist only in the mind of some local salesperson selling =3D organs for a Rodgers competitor.       RICK ANDERSON Rodgers Instruments LLC r4rick@ix.netcom.com 503-244-8107 503-244-6208 fax 503-720-1643 cell       ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C2D739.3CE5DC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.100" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG>Posted on behalf of Rodgers by List Member=3D20 cberry</STRONG><BR><BR>The poster of the recent Rodgers, Allen, flowers = =3D that=3D20 bloom, tra la message is more than half a bubble off. The local Rodgers = =3D dealer=3D20 told me the man must not even have a clue relative to what he decided to = =3D talk=3D20 about.&nbsp; <BR><BR>For starters, Rodgers has been owned by Roland =3D Corporation=3D20 - a publicly traded company and the world's largest builder of digital =3D musical=3D20 instruments for 15 years.&nbsp; Prior to that Rodgers was owned by =3D Steinway=3D20 Pianos - Steinway and Rodgers had both been part of CBS Musical =3D Instruments, a=3D20 division of CBS, Inc.<BR><BR>There has been little turnover in Rodgers R = =3D &amp;=3D20 D, most of the Rodgers engineers who developed the PDI in 1990, as the =3D world's=3D20 first stereo, two generator per note organ system, are still at Rodgers = =3D and=3D20 continuing to turn out new innovations.&nbsp; Granted a couple have =3D retired, but=3D20 there just hasn't been much turnover in R &amp; D in Hillsboro.&nbsp; =3D Even John=3D20 McFerran who helped Rodgers develop and introduce the world's first=3D20 microprocessor organs in 1980 is still busy in Rodgers R &amp; D.&nbsp; = =3D Fred=3D20 Tinker, Rodgers co-founder, did retire a few years ago after 40 years in = =3D the=3D20 business.<BR><BR>The lighted rocker tabs the post referred to were the =3D LED=3D20 stoptabs of Rodgers analog organs of the early 1980.&nbsp; These LED =3D rocker tabs=3D20 predated Allen's use of LED controls by more than 20 years.&nbsp; =3D Rodgers=3D20 discontinued their LED controls many years ago in favor of the current =3D lighted=3D20 stop tablets which organists overwhelmingly prefer.&nbsp; Rodgers = found=3D20 organists don't like LED controls as well as lighted tabs.<BR><BR>An =3D inventory=3D20 tax on imported parts is a myth.&nbsp; But, what was the point?&nbsp; =3D Rodgers=3D20 parts are made in Hillsboro, Oregon.&nbsp; Rodgers stocks or can create = =3D parts=3D20 for any Rodgers Organ ever built.&nbsp; This goes back to the 50s.&nbsp; = =3D   Technical documentation and parts support is available for any Rodgers =3D and=3D20 Rodgers feels its commitment to such support is beyond that of any other = =3D organ=3D20 builder.&nbsp; All Rodgers are designed for minimum parts and service =3D support of=3D20 40 years or more.&nbsp; A large inventory of parts to support Rodgers =3D older=3D20 analog organs is maintained in Hillsboro. If they don't have the part in = =3D stock,=3D20 they will build it for you when it is needed.<BR><BR>Rodgers does use =3D custom=3D20 Roland DSP chips optimized for stereo musical instrument use.&nbsp; =3D Other parts=3D20 may come from US companies - Intel, Texas Instruments, AMD, etc or =3D foreign=3D20 manufacturing sources.&nbsp; Look at the Allen boards and you'll see =3D Malaysia=3D20 stamped all over many of the parts - all high tech products use parts =3D from all=3D20 over the world these days.&nbsp; Again what was the =3D point?<BR><BR>Rodgers Field=3D20 Service, Technical Service and Parts Departments provide email or =3D telephone=3D20 support, parts, technical training publications and seminars for dealer = =3D and=3D20 independent service people beyond that of any other organ company.&nbsp; = =3D That is=3D20 simply fact.&nbsp; Rodgers fully supports MITA - Musical Instrument =3D Technicians=3D20 Association and underwrites yearly classes for MITA technicians at their = =3D annual=3D20 week long training in Las Vegas. <BR><BR>He is correct that technicians =3D are not=3D20 given a 800 number to call the Rodgers staff technicians assigned full =3D time to=3D20 answer calls and assist local technicians with parts, technical =3D documentations,=3D20 troubleshooting ideas, etc.&nbsp; If Allen has an 800 number for such =3D calls,=3D20 they don't seem to publish it either.&nbsp; What was the point=3D20 here?<BR><BR>Anyway, it just proves because someone posts something on =3D the=3D20 Internet, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.&nbsp; = I'm=3D20 convinced no organ company supports their installed base of instruments = =3D better=3D20 than Rodgers.&nbsp; I also suggest going to your local Rodgers dealer or = =3D direct=3D20 to Rodgers rather than put an credence in misinformed claims about =3D problems that=3D20 probably exist only in the mind of&nbsp; some local salesperson selling = =3D organs=3D20 for a Rodgers competitor.<BR><BR><BR><X-SIGSEP></DIV> <P></X-SIGSEP><FONT face=3D3D"Times New Roman, Times" = size=3D3D4><B>RICK=3D20 ANDERSON<BR>Rodgers Instruments LLC<BR></B></FONT><FONT=3D20 face=3D3D"Times New Roman, Times"=3D20 size=3D3D2><I>r4rick@ix.netcom.com<BR>503-244-8107<BR>503-244-6208=3D20 fax<BR>503-720-1643 cell<BR></FONT></I></P></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0016_01C2D739.3CE5DC40--    
(back) Subject: RE: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations) From: "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:57:06 -0800   Hi Bob,   As of 1999, the organ is still there. I was there for Sunday service in early January of that year just after a massive snow storm hit Chicago. Wonderful sound.   Mark S. Towne Las Vegas, NV (anxiously awaiting the arrival of the 53-rank von Beckerath at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas)   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of lindr@cch.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:20 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)               I'm an organist who hasn't played every proper stop in the world, and I'm wondering about two things in this post.   What is a Cornet Separe? Is it like a mounted cornet? Don't many Cornets that are proper examples of their kind have Principals, not Flutes, for their 4', 2 2/3', 2', 1/35' ranks? Seems I've played many an unsuccessful Cornet that failed because it was made up of poopy flutes that couldn't = cut the mustard, if I may mix some metaphors.   As to Gemshorns and their celestes, I loved the one on the 1920 Austin at St. James Cathedral, Chicago, where I labored for 6 years as a young man. It was (and I hope it's still there) one of the finest sounds on an instrument that was truly in need of anything exemplary it could lay claim to. I've often preferred a Gemshorn and celeste to a rival Salicional, Viole, and/or Gamba. I guess I'm talking about American instruments built before 1970. Perhaps builders today are so savvy in their production of gorgeous string tone that Gemshorns can be mocked and derided, poor = things. Rotten as they may be, I'm sure I've seen literature for which a Gemshorn has expressly been listed for suggested registration. And if not, the next time I write a piece of slush, I'm going to put it in, so that in some small way I might help justify its existence.   Bob Lind     TubaMagna writes: The literature tells us what stops go where. Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' Larigots in the Swell, along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in the middle of a mutation series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. The only undulant is = a   Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature written.         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: <lindr@cch.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:50:11 -0600             Random, disjunct thoughts:   I have problems with the French when it comes to music-making. Until = rather recently their orchestras were quite bad and couldn't hold a candle to = just about any other country one could hear in recordings. I served in Europe = in an Army Band to keep from getting my @$$ shot off in Vietnam. Who had the worst military band by far when about 10 bands from 10 different countries got together in the Berlin stadium for some big do? The French. They were totally laughable. Pierre Monteux was a great conductor, but I have = trouble thinking of very many world-class French musicians in the orchestral world--and particularly when compared to other European countries.   As to some CC organs I've heard, my wife and I liked to go to Notre Dame whenever we went to Paris, and one time Pierre Cochereau in the middle of = a mass was wailing away like a madman in a most self-serving, circus-cum-freak-show display that had nothing to do with worship that we could discern. It was shocking and inappropriate in the extreme. Subtlety was the farthest thing from his mind. The celestes I've heard on these organs are more along the line of the frying-bacon variety or just strange-sounding than they are a warm sound that I want from MY strings. Think of an orchestral string sound. When you study orchestration you = learn (or more likely receive the author's confirmation) that strings are the sound least tiresome to the ear. Try listening to a gross French celeste for very long. First of all the undulation, you can bet pretty safely, = will be wildly irregular. Then the basic sound is gratingly unpleasant to me. And the swell shades probably don't allow for much refinement, either. All in all, rather disappointing. I remember Robert Noehren recommending Messiaen's own recordings of his organ works. I, 19 years old, dutifully sent away to France to get everything he'd recorded. I don't think I ever made it through all those Ducretet-Thompson records. The lack of tuning = was the greatest problem for me, and the slooooooooooow tempi drove me up a wall at that young age.   Granted, the French appear to be tuning their instruments once in a while these days. And some stops even blend with each other. I'm trying to think of which CC organ I listened to a few months back. St. Ouen, I guess. The 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. For the sheer power and gut-wrenching reaction I got, it was a thrill. But then, when the novelty wore off, I began to wonder if it was a musical sound and if it served the music it was playing or distorted it instead. I couldn't really follow the pedal's musical line and its relation to the other musical voices. Sort of like a thousand lions let loose to roar their mightiest in a reverberant space.   End of rant, beginning of slings and arrows.   Bob Lind      
(back) Subject: RE: Even Bigger than Huge Pipe Organs From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:06:52 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   What follows it's not me, but was the opinion of a renowned german recitalist and church musician.   He told us that in a tour he made to the US he had to play on a 100+ organ (a very famous instrument). "I was overwhelmed when I saw the enormous console with rows and rows of knobs like a 747 cockpit and was afraid that never in lifetime I could become acquainted with this instrument with so infinite sound = possibilities in only two hours I had to practice. But at a second sight I noted that it was the same thing to use ten 8' = stops than to use only three; to use two 4' stops instead of seventeen... so I used only three 8' and two 4' and so on, and played on the three manuals I am used to play, and forgot the rest. By the way, this organ is a = beautiful instrument, but what on earth they need this wicked number of stops for?" = he concluded his story.   Not to criticize anybody. "Bigger than huge" organs are characteristic feature for USA, and you have all the right to be proud of them. :(   Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth Potter <swell_shades@yahoo.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:00 PM Subject: Re: Even Bigger than Huge Pipe Organs     > I always wonder if ALL the stops on huge instruments are really > necessary. ETC    
(back) Subject: RE: This vs that kind of instrument From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:27:45 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Ross & Lynda Wards wrote:     > >I have one client who had one of their four pipe organs replaced by a > >digital. Despite its luxurious number of knobs and keys, it is the only > organ > >that people reluctantly use by force. Even the admittedly wretched 35-rank > >1963 Moller in one auditorium is a better choice than the > "state-of-the-art" > >simulation in the other.   Even at high risk to flame up the old discussion again just a little = related anecdote. Last year we got a new parish at my church. The church has two organs: = Pipe organ II/24 (nothing terrific); and a fairly good electronic Spinet. I played on both and asked him on which one he would prefer to have the daily mass played. Monsignore tapped my shoulder and said: "Play on the Pipe Organ and let = the Spinet to the mice". God bless him and may he live a lot of thousand years.   Cheers Andres. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet, and the cat got something to wonder about.    
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:00:23 EST     --part1_a9.39960a5e.2b83ead7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   "St. Ouen, I guess. The 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. "   What about the contre bombarde then? did that sound like a growling = animal? What about all those 8 and 16' fonds-are those a waste too? That's interesting-I have numerous recordings of that instrument and it is =   one of the most wonderful instruments in existence. It is representative = of CC's later work. Widor dedicated it and wrote the Suite Gothique for St. Ouen (probably with the organ in mind). So, I suggest you reevaluate what =   you have said. Why would ANYONE want to attack the wonderful French organ =   culture? It's MUCH better than ANYTHING we have or EVER will have here beacuse of people like you. There is so much love, tradition, and history = in the French school of organ building and playing that it is a sacrilege to speak badly about it. We owe the French for almost everything that we = know of organ literature!!!!!!!!!!!!! and organ building!!!!!!!!!!!! French celestes sound like frying bacon!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Too much reverb? 1000 lions roaring? What would you prefer? A fu*ki$g Allen that TRIES to = be a Cavaille Coll and a Silbermann at the same time that fails at both miserably? or an ugly as$$ Moller, maybe a broken old Austin from the 40's =   with a pussy ass swell division?, a 16' reed that wont stand up to the = great chorus? Celestes that are dull and flat sounding and have NO = character-all in a 1970's dumpy church with carpet added for a touch of class and unappreciative, ignorant white trash for an audience and church board that =   complains that the organ is too loud? Who are you to say that an improvisation is self-serving? Were you inside his head when he was = playing? Do you know about his relationship with the Lord? Sorry, but...how dare = you? ???????????????????? Your comments are EVIL and disgusting. You have = no musical integrity. You deserve every bit of this and what ever else other =   people say. I hope you aren't an organ teacher. So, either Widor, Dupre, =   Cavaille Coll, Vierne, Messiaen, Alain, Daniel Roth and others are all = wrong, or YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disappointed and offended beyond belief, Gregory   --part1_a9.39960a5e.2b83ead7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>"St. Ouen, I guess. = The <BR>16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. " &nbsp; <BR> <BR>What about the contre bombarde then? &nbsp;did that sound like a = growlin=3D g animal? &nbsp;What about all those 8 and 16' fonds-are those a waste = too? <BR>That's interesting-I have numerous recordings of that instrument and = it=3D20=3D is one of the most wonderful instruments in existence. &nbsp;It is = represent=3D ative of CC's later work. &nbsp;Widor dedicated it and wrote the Suite = Gothi=3D que for St. Ouen (probably with the organ in mind). &nbsp;So, I suggest = you=3D20=3D reevaluate what you have said. &nbsp;Why would ANYONE want to attack the = won=3D derful French organ culture? &nbsp;It's MUCH better than ANYTHING we have = or=3D EVER will have here beacuse of people like you. &nbsp;There is so much = love=3D , tradition, and history in the French school of organ building and = playing=3D20=3D that it is a sacrilege to speak badly about it. &nbsp;We owe the French = for=3D20=3D almost everything that we know of organ literature!!!!!!!!!!!!! &nbsp;and = or=3D gan building!!!!!!!!!!!! &nbsp;French celestes sound like frying = bacon!!!!!!=3D !!!!!??????????? &nbsp;Too much reverb? &nbsp;1000 lions roaring? = &nbsp;What=3D would you prefer? &nbsp;A fu*ki$g Allen that TRIES to be a Cavaille Coll = an=3D d a Silbermann at the same time that fails at both miserably? or an ugly = as$=3D $ Moller, maybe a broken old Austin from the 40's with a pussy ass swell = div=3D ision?, a 16' reed that wont stand up to the great chorus? &nbsp;Celestes th=3D at are dull and flat sounding &nbsp;and have NO character-all in a 1970's = du=3D mpy church with carpet added for a touch of class and unappreciative, = ignora=3D nt white trash for an audience and church board that complains that the = orga=3D n is too loud? &nbsp;Who are you to say that an improvisation is = self-servin=3D g? &nbsp;Were you inside his head when he was playing? &nbsp;Do you know = abo=3D ut his relationship with the Lord? &nbsp;Sorry, but...<B><I><U>how dare = you?=3D </B></I></U>???????????????????? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Your comments are EVIL = an=3D d disgusting. &nbsp;You have no musical integrity. &nbsp;You deserve every = b=3D it of this and what ever else other people say. &nbsp;I hope you aren't an = o=3D rgan teacher. &nbsp;So, either Widor, Dupre, Cavaille Coll, Vierne, = Messiaen=3D , Alain, Daniel Roth and others are all wrong, or YOU = ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=3D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <BR>Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <BR>Disappointed and offended beyond belief, <BR>Gregory </FONT></HTML>   --part1_a9.39960a5e.2b83ead7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3476 - 02/18/03 From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:07:33 +0000   I'm only a lonely larigot Wandering far from home But if you want a stop with bite Replace me with a none.   A pure tin flute may give delight A Tierce pierce the air But when it's time for Songs of Praise The Tuba will be there.   For this great wealth of organ sound Will raise the heart and soul And send us out from Evensong To fill the building bowl.   With apologies to William MacGonagal     www.johnfoss.gr Author of "Ode to a Grecian Phone"       _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail    
(back) Subject: Re: This vs that kind of instrument From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:03:07 +1300   >Ross & Lynda Wards wrote: > > >> >I have one client who had one of their four pipe organs replaced by a >> >digital. Despite its luxurious number of knobs and keys, it is the = only >> organ >> >that people reluctantly use by force. Even the admittedly wretched >35-rank >> >1963 Moller in one auditorium is a better choice than the >> "state-of-the-art" >> >simulation in the other.   No, I did not write that. In my total of ten weeks in the USA, I played = and heard only six organs, and none was a Moller.   Ross    
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:06:57 +1300   Sounds like American politics to me. Someone dares to disagree with the prevailing mindset and they're immediately subjected to foul language and screaming abuse.   Transfer this sort of reaction to those who think a mightily destructive = war against Iraq is not a good idea, and, with a bit of luck, you might see = what I'm speaking about.   People, surely now, are perfectly entitled to differences of opinion, even about sacred cows?   Ross -----Original Message----- From: Gfc234@aol.com <Gfc234@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant     "St. Ouen, I guess. The 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. "   What about the contre bombarde then? did that sound like a growling animal? What about all those 8 and 16' fonds-are those a waste too? That's interesting-I have numerous recordings of that instrument and it = is one of the most wonderful instruments in existence. It is representative = of CC's later work. Widor dedicated it and wrote the Suite Gothique for St. Ouen (probably with the organ in mind). So, I suggest you reevaluate what you have said. Why would ANYONE want to attack the wonderful French organ culture? It's MUCH better than ANYTHING we have or EVER will have here beacuse of people like you. There is so much love, tradition, and history in the French school of organ building and playing that it is a sacrilege = to speak badly about it. We owe the French for almost everything that we = know of organ literature!!!!!!!!!!!!! and organ building!!!!!!!!!!!! French celestes sound like frying bacon!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Too much reverb? 1000 lions roaring? What would you prefer? A fu*ki$g Allen that TRIES to be a Cavaille Coll and a Silbermann at the same time that fails at both miserably? or an ugly as$$ Moller, maybe a broken old Austin from the 40's with a pussy ass swell division?, a 16' reed that wont stand up to the = great chorus? Celestes that are dull and flat sounding and have NO = character-all in a 1970's dumpy church with carpet added for a touch of class and unappreciative, ignorant white trash for an audience and church board that complains that the organ is too loud? Who are you to say that an improvisation is self-serving? Were you inside his head when he was playing? Do you know about his relationship with the Lord? Sorry, but...how dare you????????????????????? Your comments are EVIL and disgusting. You have no musical integrity. You deserve every bit of this and what ever else other people say. I hope you aren't an organ teacher. So, either Widor, Dupre, Cavaille Coll, Vierne, Messiaen, Alain, Daniel = Roth and others are all wrong, or YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disappointed and offended beyond belief, Gregory