PipeChat Digest #3478 - Tuesday, February 18, 2003
 
Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)
  by "WDBabcock" <WDBabcock@msn.com>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Schilling and Streicher
  by "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Re: Recent postings re Rodgers
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: Lexan
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Previous Messages
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Recent postings re Rodgers
  by "r" <basset3@hvc.rr.com>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com>
Re: Previous Messages
  by "Joseph Ireland" <jireland@beethoven.com>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations) From: "WDBabcock" <WDBabcock@msn.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:50:14 -0600   Bob-- A Cornet Separe is indeed like a mounted cornet, but it is possible to = draw each rank sepately. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <lindr@cch.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)     > > > > > > I'm an organist who hasn't played every proper stop in the world, and = I'm > wondering about two things in this post. > > What is a Cornet Separe? Is it like a mounted cornet? Don't many Cornets > that are proper examples of their kind have Principals, not Flutes, for > their 4', 2 2/3', 2', 1/35' ranks? Seems I've played many an = unsuccessful > Cornet that failed because it was made up of poopy flutes that couldn't cut > the mustard, if I may mix some metaphors. > > As to Gemshorns and their celestes, I loved the one on the 1920 Austin = at > St. James Cathedral, Chicago, where I labored for 6 years as a young = man. > It was (and I hope it's still there) one of the finest sounds on an > instrument that was truly in need of anything exemplary it could lay = claim > to. I've often preferred a Gemshorn and celeste to a rival Salicional, > Viole, and/or Gamba. I guess I'm talking about American instruments = built > before 1970. Perhaps builders today are so savvy in their production of > gorgeous string tone that Gemshorns can be mocked and derided, poor things. > Rotten as they may be, I'm sure I've seen literature for which a = Gemshorn > has expressly been listed for suggested registration. And if not, the = next > time I write a piece of slush, I'm going to put it in, so that in some > small way I might help justify its existence. > > Bob Lind > > > TubaMagna writes: > The literature tells us what stops go where. > Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' Larigots in the = Swell, > along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in the middle of a > mutation > series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. The only undulant = is a > > Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature written. > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >      
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:44:03 -0600   Thank you Ross for your note of good sense in the wake of Gregory's ridiculous tirade.   Cheers, Russ Greene       On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 03:06 PM, Ross & Lynda Wards wrote:   > People, surely now, are perfectly entitled to differences of opinion, > even > about sacred cows?    
(back) Subject: Schilling and Streicher From: "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:04:44 -0500   Years ago I "inherited" an Amsco Music Pub. Co, NYC volume, edited by = Robert Leech Bedell and published in 1948, _Choral Preludes for Organ: 63 = Original Choral Preludes_ (sic), No. 65 of the Everybody's Favorite Series. It includes many by Alfred Schilling and Johann Andreas Streicher.   Whozzat? Tell me more; in fact, as much as you can.   Just curious.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: Re: Recent postings re Rodgers From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:11:15 -0600   Excuse me Chester (and Rick),   I've got no axe to grind between Rodgers and Allen - both produce fine=20=   products of their type.   BUT, Rodgers certainly did not develop or introduce the world's first=20 microprocessor organ.   The digital, microprocessor-driven organ was developed by Allen and=20 brought to market in 1971. It was one of the first two consumer=20 products to use the then brand-new microprocessor technology, the other=20=   being the Sharp calculator, first of its type.   To achieve this feat, for which Allen and Jerome Markovitch won=20 numerous prestigious awards, Allen participated in basic research with=20=   North American Rockwell who was developing microchips with NASA as=20 their primary client.   By 1980, everybody was using microprocessors in a wide variety of=20 products. Rodgers was late to the plate in this area.   TTFN, Russ Greene   On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Chester H Berry wrote:   > Even John McFerran who helped Rodgers develop and introduce the=20 > world's first microprocessor organs in 1980 is still busy in Rodgers R=20=   > & D.=A0=    
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:15:40 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0022_01C2D768.FAA23420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Dear Greg, Geez Paul ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Gfc234@aol.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant     "St. Ouen, I guess. The=3D20 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. " =3D20   What about the contre bombarde then? did that sound like a growling =3D animal? What about all those 8 and 16' fonds-are those a waste too?=3D20 That's interesting-I have numerous recordings of that instrument and =3D it is one of the most wonderful instruments in existence. It is =3D representative of CC's later work. Widor dedicated it and wrote the =3D Suite Gothique for St. Ouen (probably with the organ in mind). So, I =3D suggest you reevaluate what you have said. Why would ANYONE want to =3D attack the wonderful French organ culture? It's MUCH better than =3D ANYTHING we have or EVER will have here beacuse of people like you. =3D There is so much love, tradition, and history in the French school of =3D organ building and playing that it is a sacrilege to speak badly about =3D it. We owe the French for almost everything that we know of organ =3D literature!!!!!!!!!!!!! and organ building!!!!!!!!!!!! French celestes = =3D sound like frying bacon!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Too much reverb? 1000 =3D lions roaring? What would you prefer? A fu*ki$g Allen that TRIES to be = =3D a Cavaille Coll and a Silbermann at the same time that fails at both =3D miserably? or an ugly as$$ Moller, maybe a broken old Austin from the =3D 40's with a pussy ass swell division?, a 16' reed that wont stand up to = =3D the great chorus? Celestes that are dull and flat sounding and have NO = =3D character-all in a 1970's dumpy church with carpet added for a touch of = =3D class and unappreciative, ignorant white trash for an audience and =3D church board that complains that the organ is too loud? Who are you to = =3D say that an improvisation is self-serving? Were you inside his head =3D when he was playing? Do you know about his relationship with the Lord? = =3D Sorry, but...how dare you????????????????????? Your comments are EVIL = =3D and disgusting. You have no musical integrity. You deserve every bit =3D of this and what ever else other people say. I hope you aren't an organ = =3D teacher. So, either Widor, Dupre, Cavaille Coll, Vierne, Messiaen, =3D Alain, Daniel Roth and others are all wrong, or YOU =3D ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=3D20 Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=3D20 Disappointed and offended beyond belief,=3D20 Gregory=3D20   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0022_01C2D768.FAA23420 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Dear Greg,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D Geez</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial=3D20 size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= =3D p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp= =3D ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 Paul</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DGfc234@aol.com =3D href=3D3D"mailto:Gfc234@aol.com">Gfc234@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 18, =3D 2003 3:00=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: "Celestes"+ French = =3D organ=3D20 &amp; music rant</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>"St. = Ouen, =3D I guess. The=3D20 <BR>16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. " &nbsp; =3D <BR><BR>What=3D20 about the contre bombarde then? &nbsp;did that sound like a growling =3D animal?=3D20 &nbsp;What about all those 8 and 16' fonds-are those a waste too? =3D <BR>That's=3D20 interesting-I have numerous recordings of that instrument and it is =3D one of the=3D20 most wonderful instruments in existence. &nbsp;It is representative of = =3D CC's=3D20 later work. &nbsp;Widor dedicated it and wrote the Suite Gothique for = =3D St. Ouen=3D20 (probably with the organ in mind). &nbsp;So, I suggest you reevaluate = =3D what you=3D20 have said. &nbsp;Why would ANYONE want to attack the wonderful French = =3D organ=3D20 culture? &nbsp;It's MUCH better than ANYTHING we have or EVER will =3D have here=3D20 beacuse of people like you. &nbsp;There is so much love, tradition, =3D and=3D20 history in the French school of organ building and playing that it is = =3D a=3D20 sacrilege to speak badly about it. &nbsp;We owe the French for = almost=3D20 everything that we know of organ literature!!!!!!!!!!!!! &nbsp;and =3D organ=3D20 building!!!!!!!!!!!! &nbsp;French celestes sound like frying=3D20 bacon!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? &nbsp;Too much reverb? &nbsp;1000 lions =3D roaring?=3D20 &nbsp;What would you prefer? &nbsp;A fu*ki$g Allen that TRIES to be a = =3D Cavaille=3D20 Coll and a Silbermann at the same time that fails at both miserably? =3D or an=3D20 ugly as$$ Moller, maybe a broken old Austin from the 40's with a pussy = =3D ass=3D20 swell division?, a 16' reed that wont stand up to the great chorus?=3D20 &nbsp;Celestes that are dull and flat sounding &nbsp;and have NO =3D character-all=3D20 in a 1970's dumpy church with carpet added for a touch of class and=3D20 unappreciative, ignorant white trash for an audience and church board = =3D that=3D20 complains that the organ is too loud? &nbsp;Who are you to say that an = =3D   improvisation is self-serving? &nbsp;Were you inside his head when he = =3D was=3D20 playing? &nbsp;Do you know about his relationship with the Lord? =3D &nbsp;Sorry,=3D20 but...<B><I><U>how dare you?</B></I></U>????????????????????=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Your comments are EVIL and disgusting. &nbsp;You =3D have no=3D20 musical integrity. &nbsp;You deserve every bit of this and what ever =3D else=3D20 other people say. &nbsp;I hope you aren't an organ teacher. &nbsp;So, = =3D either=3D20 Widor, Dupre, Cavaille Coll, Vierne, Messiaen, Alain, Daniel Roth and = =3D others=3D20 are all wrong, or YOU =3D ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=3D20 <BR>Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <BR>Disappointed and offended =3D beyond=3D20 belief, <BR>Gregory </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0022_01C2D768.FAA23420--    
(back) Subject: Re: Lexan From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:18:27 EST     --part1_2d.2b1d71b3.2b83fd23_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 2/18/03 2:10:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes:     > Too many puns. Please store them in the clerestory, Bruce. > Reminds me of a very funny punster in the Centenary College Choir = (Louisiana USA) who one evening at a party was push into a closet and told that he = would not be let out until he came up with an appropriate pun. Only a few = seconds passed before from the closet came the words:   ...     ...     ...     ...   o-PUN the door!   heeheehee     Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502     --part1_2d.2b1d71b3.2b83fd23_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>In a message dated = 2/18/0=3D 3 2:10:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, TheShieling@xtra.co.nz writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-=3D LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Too many puns. Please = store=3D them in the clerestory, Bruce. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0">Reminds me of a very funny punster in the Centenary = College=3D20=3D Choir (Louisiana USA) who one evening at a party was push into a closet = and=3D20=3D told that he would not be let out until he came up with an appropriate = pun.=3D20=3D &nbsp;&nbsp;Only a few seconds passed before from the closet came the = words: <BR> <BR>.. <BR> <BR> <BR>.. <BR> <BR> <BR>.. <BR> <BR> <BR>.. <BR> <BR>o-PUN the door!=3D20 <BR> <BR>heeheehee <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Ac=3D res http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_2d.2b1d71b3.2b83fd23_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Previous Messages From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:06:32 -0600   Hi! I send you a message a while back about getting together and didn't get a response. My email was on the fritts at the time- did you get it?? Anwyay....I want to apologize for Greg's little tyrade against what you said about French organs. I agree with your opinions- I think most of those instruments have too harsh and unrefined of a sound for what I like to hear in French music. You were just expressing your opinions in a tactful manner, and Greg was expressing his in some manner other than a tactful one. Greg and I may go to school together and I may spend time with him sometimes but I certainly hope his behavior doesn't make the list think bad about NIU and its organ students because I have no intention of ever acting in that manner in a public forum. I hope to hear from you soon.     Blessings, Beau Surratt, Organist St. Peter's UCC, Elmhurst,IL Organ Performance Major, Northern Illinois University, DeKalb,IL     -----Original Message----- From: lindr@cch.com To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:50:11 -0600 Subject: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant   > > > > > > Random, disjunct thoughts: > > I have problems with the French when it comes to music-making. Until > rather > recently their orchestras were quite bad and couldn't hold a candle to > just > about any other country one could hear in recordings. I served in > Europe in > an Army Band to keep from getting my @$$ shot off in Vietnam. Who had > the > worst military band by far when about 10 bands from 10 different > countries > got together in the Berlin stadium for some big do? The French. They > were > totally laughable. Pierre Monteux was a great conductor, but I have > trouble > thinking of very many world-class French musicians in the orchestral > world--and particularly when compared to other European countries. > > As to some CC organs I've heard, my wife and I liked to go to Notre > Dame > whenever we went to Paris, and one time Pierre Cochereau in the middle > of a > mass was wailing away like a madman in a most self-serving, > circus-cum-freak-show display that had nothing to do with worship that > we > could discern. It was shocking and inappropriate in the extreme. > Subtlety > was the farthest thing from his mind. The celestes I've heard on these > organs are more along the line of the frying-bacon variety or just > strange-sounding than they are a warm sound that I want from MY > strings. > Think of an orchestral string sound. When you study orchestration you > learn > (or more likely receive the author's confirmation) that strings are the > sound least tiresome to the ear. Try listening to a gross French > celeste > for very long. First of all the undulation, you can bet pretty safely, > will > be wildly irregular. Then the basic sound is gratingly unpleasant to > me. > And the swell shades probably don't allow for much refinement, either. > All > in all, rather disappointing. I remember Robert Noehren recommending > Messiaen's own recordings of his organ works. I, 19 years old, > dutifully > sent away to France to get everything he'd recorded. I don't think I > ever > made it through all those Ducretet-Thompson records. The lack of tuning > was > the greatest problem for me, and the slooooooooooow tempi drove me up a > wall at that young age. > > Granted, the French appear to be tuning their instruments once in a > while > these days. And some stops even blend with each other. I'm trying to > think > of which CC organ I listened to a few months back. St. Ouen, I guess. > The > 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. For the sheer power > and > gut-wrenching reaction I got, it was a thrill. But then, when the > novelty > wore off, I began to wonder if it was a musical sound and if it served > the > music it was playing or distorted it instead. I couldn't really follow > the > pedal's musical line and its relation to the other musical voices. Sort > of > like a thousand lions let loose to roar their mightiest in a > reverberant > space. > > End of rant, beginning of slings and arrows. > > Bob Lind > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Recent postings re Rodgers From: "r" <basset3@hvc.rr.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:16:12 -0500   Sorry cannot resist. My previous Rodgers 770 (?), 3 manual, 57 stop, circa '71 kept having problems. When the chimes went on, the flutes went half volume = everywhere. And missing notes, stops that came off, keys that came off, and going out = of tune, etc. The local tech had tried repeatedly to reach a Rodgers rep who knew the '71 technology but had difficulties. "The Rodgers people have turned over so many times that there are no old timers who remember the = in's and out's of what is behind that back board and the inner workings of the beast." He had to go through the "sales rep" for the region to "beg" for = a Rodgers response. He's still working on the issues. I left and am elsewhere at this time. The organ remains in a state of disrepair. Robert Clooney, Middletown, NY      
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: "Steve Chandler" <stevec@open-tech.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:23:50 -0600   I'd like to thank Ross for speaking up regarding Gregory's rant. While I respect CC organs and the French organ literature. I don't feel it's a sacred cow,... well maybe Franck? To go OT just briefly I also agree with Ross regarding the impending conflict with Iraq. Whether it's organs or politics folks need to maintain the capability of critical thinking and not blindly follow those who talk the loudest.   Steve Chandler http://www.mp3.com/stevechandler   >Sounds like American politics to me. Someone dares to disagree with the >prevailing mindset and they're immediately subjected to foul language and >screaming abuse. > >Transfer this sort of reaction to those who think a mightily destructive = war >against Iraq is not a good idea, and, with a bit of luck, you might see = what >I'm speaking about. > >People, surely now, are perfectly entitled to differences of opinion, = even >about sacred cows? > >Ross > > > "St. Ouen, I guess. The > 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. " > > Gregory responded:   >What about the contre bombarde then? did that sound like a growling >animal? <much ranting snipped> > >      
(back) Subject: Re: Previous Messages From: "Joseph Ireland" <jireland@beethoven.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:05:38 -0500   ????? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:06 PM Subject: Previous Messages     > Hi! > I send you a message a while back about getting together and didn't > get a response. My email was on the fritts at the time- did you get it?? > Anwyay....I want to apologize for Greg's little tyrade against what you > said about French organs. I agree with your opinions- I think most of > those instruments have too harsh and unrefined of a sound for what I > like to hear in French music. You were just expressing your opinions in > a tactful manner, and Greg was expressing his in some manner other than > a tactful one. Greg and I may go to school together and I may spend time =   > with him sometimes but I certainly hope his behavior doesn't make the > list think bad about NIU and its organ students because I have no > intention of ever acting in that manner in a public forum. I hope to > hear from you soon. > > > Blessings, > Beau Surratt, Organist > St. Peter's UCC, > Elmhurst,IL > Organ Performance Major, > Northern Illinois University, > DeKalb,IL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lindr@cch.com > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:50:11 -0600 > Subject: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant > > > > > > > > > > > > > Random, disjunct thoughts: > > > > I have problems with the French when it comes to music-making. Until > > rather > > recently their orchestras were quite bad and couldn't hold a candle to > > just > > about any other country one could hear in recordings. I served in > > Europe in > > an Army Band to keep from getting my @$$ shot off in Vietnam. Who had > > the > > worst military band by far when about 10 bands from 10 different > > countries > > got together in the Berlin stadium for some big do? The French. They > > were > > totally laughable. Pierre Monteux was a great conductor, but I have > > trouble > > thinking of very many world-class French musicians in the orchestral > > world--and particularly when compared to other European countries. > > > > As to some CC organs I've heard, my wife and I liked to go to Notre > > Dame > > whenever we went to Paris, and one time Pierre Cochereau in the middle > > of a > > mass was wailing away like a madman in a most self-serving, > > circus-cum-freak-show display that had nothing to do with worship that > > we > > could discern. It was shocking and inappropriate in the extreme. > > Subtlety > > was the farthest thing from his mind. The celestes I've heard on these > > organs are more along the line of the frying-bacon variety or just > > strange-sounding than they are a warm sound that I want from MY > > strings. > > Think of an orchestral string sound. When you study orchestration you > > learn > > (or more likely receive the author's confirmation) that strings are = the > > sound least tiresome to the ear. Try listening to a gross French > > celeste > > for very long. First of all the undulation, you can bet pretty safely, > > will > > be wildly irregular. Then the basic sound is gratingly unpleasant to > > me. > > And the swell shades probably don't allow for much refinement, either. > > All > > in all, rather disappointing. I remember Robert Noehren recommending > > Messiaen's own recordings of his organ works. I, 19 years old, > > dutifully > > sent away to France to get everything he'd recorded. I don't think I > > ever > > made it through all those Ducretet-Thompson records. The lack of = tuning > > was > > the greatest problem for me, and the slooooooooooow tempi drove me up = a > > wall at that young age. > > > > Granted, the French appear to be tuning their instruments once in a > > while > > these days. And some stops even blend with each other. I'm trying to > > think > > of which CC organ I listened to a few months back. St. Ouen, I guess. > > The > > 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. For the sheer power > > and > > gut-wrenching reaction I got, it was a thrill. But then, when the > > novelty > > wore off, I began to wonder if it was a musical sound and if it served > > the > > music it was playing or distorted it instead. I couldn't really follow > > the > > pedal's musical line and its relation to the other musical voices. = Sort > > of > > like a thousand lions let loose to roar their mightiest in a > > reverberant > > space. > > > > End of rant, beginning of slings and arrows. > > > > Bob Lind > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:10:53 +0000 (GMT)   Hello,   Where did Maurice Andre (Trumpeter) hail from?   Sounds French to me!   I hesitate to agree with Bob Lind, but I too find French organs a bit "over the top" in the reed department and I hate "bacon frying" strings.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK       --- lindr@cch.com wrote: > > > > > > Random, disjunct thoughts: > > I have problems with the French when it comes to > music-making.   ........I have trouble > thinking of very many world-class French musicians > in the orchestral > world--and particularly when compared to other > European countries.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com