PipeChat Digest #3479 - Tuesday, February 18, 2003
 
Peasant  music
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Previous Messages
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Harmonic Bridge of the Sylvestrina
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Recent postings re Rodgers
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
Staying on topic
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Staying on topic
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
CC comments....
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Re: Staying on topic
  by "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca>
Organ for Practice
  by "Eliot Hunter" <eliothunter@yahoo.co.uk>
My last message
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: CC comments....
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: CC comments....
  by "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com>
Oh, the value of a Larigot  :)
  by "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com>
My mistake
  by "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com>
Digital bashing
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Staying on topic
  by "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net>
 

(back) Subject: Peasant music From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:29:05 +0000 (GMT)   Hello,   Could Greg (the unbelievably offended) be a Francophile?   I suppose there is something good to be said about the French. You always know that you are dealing with peasants!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   PS: Where would Cavaille-Coll have been without Gavioli, and where would Vierne have been without Cavaille-Coll?   Hee Hee! Switch on the force fields!       --- Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > We owe the French for almost > everything that we know > of organ literature!!!!!!!!!!!!! and organ > building!!!!!!!!!!!! French > celestes sound like frying > bacon!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? Too much reverb? > 1000 lions roaring? What would you prefer? A > fu*ki$g Allen that TRIES to be > a Cavaille Coll and a Silbermann at the same time > that fails at both > miserably? > Sorry, but...how dare you? > ???????????????????? Your comments are EVIL and > disgusting. You have no > musical integrity. You deserve every bit of this > and what ever else other > people say. I hope you aren't an organ teacher. > So, either Widor, Dupre, > Cavaille Coll, Vierne, Messiaen, Alain, Daniel Roth > and others are all wrong, > or YOU > ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Disappointed and offended beyond belief, > Gregory >   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Previous Messages From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:32:14 EST     --part1_158.1c072097.2b841c7e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Beau, you are just too nice! greg   --part1_158.1c072097.2b841c7e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2>Beau, you are just = too ni=3D ce! <BR>greg</FONT></HTML>   --part1_158.1c072097.2b841c7e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Harmonic Bridge of the Sylvestrina From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:50:18 +0000 (GMT)   Beautiful harmonic bridge of Sylvestrina,   Swell the Great and Great the Swell, The heavy wind bemoan the loss, Tremulous shudder and muted whistle, the scan by MacGonagal, the rest by Foss.   Beautiful harmonic bridge of Sylvestrina   :)   Colin Mitchell UK     --- John Foss <harfo32@hotmail.com> wrote: > I'm only a lonely larigot > Wandering far from home > But if you want a stop with bite > Replace me with a none. > > A pure tin flute may give delight > A Tierce pierce the air > But when it's time for Songs of Praise > The Tuba will be there. > > For this great wealth of organ sound > Will raise the heart and soul > And send us out from Evensong > To fill the building bowl. > > With apologies to William MacGonagal > > > www.johnfoss.gr > Author of "Ode to a Grecian Phone"     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Recent postings re Rodgers From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:56:45 -0500   At 03:11 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Excuse me Chester (and Rick), > >I've got no axe to grind between Rodgers and Allen - both produce fine >products of their type. > >BUT, Rodgers certainly did not develop or introduce the world's first >microprocessor organ. > >The digital, microprocessor-driven organ was developed by Allen and >brought to market in 1971. It was one of the first two consumer products >to use the then brand-new microprocessor technology, the other being the >Sharp calculator, first of its type. > >To achieve this feat, for which Allen and Jerome Markovitch won numerous >prestigious awards, Allen participated in basic research with North >American Rockwell who was developing microchips with NASA as their = primary >client. > >By 1980, everybody was using microprocessors in a wide variety of >products. Rodgers was late to the plate in this area. > >TTFN, >Russ Greene > >On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Chester H Berry wrote: > >>Even John McFerran who helped Rodgers develop and introduce the world's >>first microprocessor organs in 1980 is still busy in Rodgers R & D.   Russ,   If Allen was the first company to produce a digital microprocessor-driven organ, can you tell me and the list what micro-processor they were using? Just because it is digital, does not mean it used a = micro-processor as we know the term to mean today.   Also, there is a difference between digital console control and digital tone generation. If I am not mistaken, Allen did not go to a CPU for console housekeeping until the mid 80s, at which time they used a micro-processor no doubt. Rodgers came out with their micro-processor controlled consoles in 1981, and it was called the "Mikasco" fiasco. = These organs tended to be troublesome, in fact so troublesome, that they dropped =   the line after about 18 months. In the mid eighties, they came out with new micro-processor organs, that had some MIDI functionality on them.   In fact at Classic (small Canadian firm), we used micro-processor control for consoles in the mid to late 70s.   As to tech support, I am sure Rodgers makes an effort to support older organs, but I don't think it is anywhere near as good as say Allen. (Ican't be absolutely sure about this).   Here is a true story. In Ontario here, a fellow was working on his own Rodgers organ (I think it was a 740). He wanted to put in a digital reverb. Well, he was working on it, with the thing turned on, and blew = the thing up royally. He got a local tech to work on it. The processor board =   was shot, so he sent it to Rodgers, for repair. Rodgers sent the board back saying it could not be fixed, and not only that, they had no spare boards. Anyways, the tech, worked away at it, and finally got to the = point where he needed only a few ICs, to get it going. He contacted Rodgers, = and Rodgers said that they had none, and there were none left in the world. The IC was made in 2 forms, either a 14 pin or an 8 pin IC. The owner contacted me for help, and I managed to cross-reference the in out for him. The tech. managed to get the organ going for him, and that without the support of Rodgers, but from me. The owner was most grateful to me for the support, although the cost of the repair was $5,000 = Canadian.   I think the long and the short of it is that Rodgers is not really that interested in the stuff that was built before Roland bought them. I contacted Rodgers about a "Mikasco" organ that was on the fritz, and was told that no one there knew much about them. It was recommended that I replace the CPU board, which I did, but it still does not work. No documentation was supplied, and no 1-800 number either. It will get = sorted out someday I hope. Other things like the Klann tripper actions they used =   for combo-actions tended to go flakey. I'm not sure they would have spare =   parts for it sitting on the shelf. Realistically, it is pretty hard to support every single part, every single organ you have ever built, without it costing a fortune.   I think someone ruffled some feathers at Rodgers, if the head honcho of Rodgers comes out with that kind of reply.   Regards,   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: Staying on topic From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:13:13 -0600   And I would hope before we venture too extensively in this direction that = we remember the name of this group: PIPEchat!   With friendly thanks, Dennis Steckley ___________   Subject: Re: Recent postings re Rodgers From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:11:15 -0600   Excuse me Chester (and Rick),   I've got no axe to grind between Rodgers and Allen - both produce fine products of their type.     This world in arms is not spending money alone; it is spending the sweat = of the laborers, the genius of the scientists, and the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.--Dwight Eisenhower    
(back) Subject: Re: Staying on topic From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:30:24 -0500   At 06:13 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, you wrote: >And I would hope before we venture too extensively in this direction that = we >remember the name of this group: PIPEchat! > >With friendly thanks, >Dennis Steckley >___________   Dennis,   Is it not kosher to discuss fake PIPES then?   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: CC comments.... From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:33:36 -0600   Wow: I just learned new terms in organ building....I was hoping that this list was at least a notch higher than the corner tavern. Just who exactly threw the first tomato?   Now I'm gonna go duck for cover and enjoy my evening decaff.     Jon Bertschinger  
(back) Subject: Re: Staying on topic From: "Andrew Barss" <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:46:34 -0400   Not to pick a fight, but the byline included on every message posted to this list is (and it's repeated below): "PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics"   I'll take this opportunity to express mydisappointment over (IMHO) a lot of digital "bashing" that seems to occur on this list. I love pipe organs the same as most, if not, everyone on this list. However, I still think that digital organs of today are producing some very credible, satisfactory, and useful support for congregations worshipping God.   My church owns a digital instrument (it happens to be an Allen Renaissance) because it would be impossible for us to house a pipe organ without extensive structural changes to the building. Would I prefer a wonderful pipe organ? Yes! Is it practical for our church? Unfortunately, no. Why, though, should I feel like a "second-class citizen" when I read postings to a list that advertises itself as discussing both pipe and digital organs?   Just my $0.02 worth.   Andrew Barss Halifax, Nova Scotia   On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:13 PM, First Christian Church of Casey, IL wrote:   > And I would hope before we venture too extensively in this direction > that we > remember the name of this group: PIPEchat! > > With friendly thanks, > Dennis Steckley > ___________ > > Subject: Re: Recent postings re Rodgers > From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:11:15 -0600 > > Excuse me Chester (and Rick), > > I've got no axe to grind between Rodgers and Allen - both produce fine > products of their type. > > > This world in arms is not spending money alone; it is spending the > sweat of > the laborers, the genius of the scientists, and the hopes of its > children. > This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud > of > threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.--Dwight > Eisenhower > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Organ for Practice From: "Eliot Hunter" <eliothunter@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:54:13 +0000 (GMT)   --0-412940459-1045616053=3D:49304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit     I'm an organ student in London and I've problems trying to find an organ = to practise on here. Does anyone have any idea where I should turn for = help?   Eliot         --------------------------------- With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits = your needs   --0-412940459-1045616053=3D:49304 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit   <P>I'm an organ student in London and I've problems trying to find an = organ to practise on here. Does anyone have any idea where I should turn = for help?</P> <P>Eliot</P><p><p><br><hr size=3D1><a = href=3D"http://uk.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_xtra/?http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mai= l_storage.html"><b><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">With Yahoo! Mail you = can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your = needs</font></b></a><br> --0-412940459-1045616053=3D:49304--  
(back) Subject: My last message From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:55:48 -0600   Hi! Someone replied to my previous post with a message of ???????? I did, in fact, only mean to send that to Mr. Lind, but it did have relevance to previous postings. Greg and I do indeed attend the same school, Northern Illinois University, and we both are organ performance majors. Greg is one of my best friends and while I don't agree with the way he expressed his opinions, they are certainly valid. This just goes to show what everyone says....we ALL have our opinions and they are ALL equally valid but we ALL need to watch out how we express them so that other people will think we are educated enough for our opinions to be valid and so that we don't attempt in any way to invalidate other's opinions.       Beau Surratt, Organist St. Peter's UCC, Elmhurst,IL Organ Performance Major, Northern Illinois University, DeKalb,IL     -----Original Message----- From: lindr@cch.com To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:50:11 -0600 Subject: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant   > > > > > > Random, disjunct thoughts: > > I have problems with the French when it comes to music-making. Until > rather > recently their orchestras were quite bad and couldn't hold a candle to > just > about any other country one could hear in recordings. I served in > Europe in > an Army Band to keep from getting my @$$ shot off in Vietnam. Who had > the > worst military band by far when about 10 bands from 10 different > countries > got together in the Berlin stadium for some big do? The French. They > were > totally laughable. Pierre Monteux was a great conductor, but I have > trouble > thinking of very many world-class French musicians in the orchestral > world--and particularly when compared to other European countries. > > As to some CC organs I've heard, my wife and I liked to go to Notre > Dame > whenever we went to Paris, and one time Pierre Cochereau in the middle > of a > mass was wailing away like a madman in a most self-serving, > circus-cum-freak-show display that had nothing to do with worship that > we > could discern. It was shocking and inappropriate in the extreme. > Subtlety > was the farthest thing from his mind. The celestes I've heard on these > organs are more along the line of the frying-bacon variety or just > strange-sounding than they are a warm sound that I want from MY > strings. > Think of an orchestral string sound. When you study orchestration you > learn > (or more likely receive the author's confirmation) that strings are the > sound least tiresome to the ear. Try listening to a gross French > celeste > for very long. First of all the undulation, you can bet pretty safely, > will > be wildly irregular. Then the basic sound is gratingly unpleasant to > me. > And the swell shades probably don't allow for much refinement, either. > All > in all, rather disappointing. I remember Robert Noehren recommending > Messiaen's own recordings of his organ works. I, 19 years old, > dutifully > sent away to France to get everything he'd recorded. I don't think I > ever > made it through all those Ducretet-Thompson records. The lack of tuning > was > the greatest problem for me, and the slooooooooooow tempi drove me up a > wall at that young age. > > Granted, the French appear to be tuning their instruments once in a > while > these days. And some stops even blend with each other. I'm trying to > think > of which CC organ I listened to a few months back. St. Ouen, I guess. > The > 16' Bombarde sounded like tuned airplane motors. For the sheer power > and > gut-wrenching reaction I got, it was a thrill. But then, when the > novelty > wore off, I began to wonder if it was a musical sound and if it served > the > music it was playing or distorted it instead. I couldn't really follow > the > pedal's musical line and its relation to the other musical voices. Sort > of > like a thousand lions let loose to roar their mightiest in a > reverberant > space. > > End of rant, beginning of slings and arrows. > > Bob Lind > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: CC comments.... From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:18:09 +0000 (GMT)   Hello,   So what is wrong with Corner Taverns?   Decaff indeed!   There's nothing worse than pseudo-sensualists!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- jon bertschinger <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> wrote: > > I was hoping > that this list was at least a notch higher than the > corner > tavern. > > Now I'm gonna go duck for cover and enjoy my evening > decaff.     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: CC comments.... From: "jon bertschinger" <jonberts@magiccablepc.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:33:11 -0600   well...I guess the corner tavern is kinda like a church....it's not the church so much as it is the peeple? LOL actually, I enjoy a corner tavern every now and then....but since I don't smoke, I don't find myself going to places like that very often. <G> so 2nite it's me, my kitties and sans cafeen....<G>   hope everyone is having an enjoyable evening.   J  
(back) Subject: Oh, the value of a Larigot :) From: "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:40:05 -0500   Despite the fact that my resources are limited, I value my swell Larigot quiet a bit. If you combine a 4' principal or flute and a Larigot and subcouple it without unison (the equiv to 8 + 2 2/3), it makes a great = solo color! I've used such an arrangment on Bach Trio Sonatas, choral = preludes, etc.   Jim Clouser BM candidate, Cleveland Institute of Music Music Director/Organist Reformation Evangelical Lutheran Church Eastlake, Ohio   ----- Original Message ----- From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:00 AM Subject: Allegedly "useless" stops (and preparations)     > Dear PipeChatters: > The usefulness of an organ stop is dependent upon the individual > organist; if you inherit an instrument designed by your predecessor who > consulted with a knowledgeable organbuilder, and the organ was new or > underwent substantial change and enlargement, there is probably a good deal > of reasoning behind the stoplist. > The literature tells us what stops go where. > Yet people still continue to put lonely 1-1/3' Larigots in the = Swell, > along with 4' Oboes. They specify a 2' Principal in the middle of a mutation > series, disrupting (and preventing) a Cornet Separe. The only undulant = is a > Gemshorn Celeste, for which there is no literature written. These are > situations in which critical issues of usefulness (as opposed to issues = of > quality) arise in smaller organ design. > Prepared stops in a specification give a better idea of where the builder > was trying to go; they are his blueprint, a rational master plan of his > vision. Preparations are not necessarily "useless" stops, but rather the less > critical stops. It is better to prepare the Swell 16' reed than it is to > prepare the 8' Principal. > Organ projects and organ care (as everybody on this list knows by = this > point) can be halted mid-stream by a change of clergy, a change of > organ-player, or mysterious changes in, or disappearance of, funding. If = a > builder isn't getting paid, or loses money every time they walk through the > church portals, everybody suffers. If the church cannot afford to build or > complete an organ, the builder cannot afford to build it for them. Since the > builder's name is attached to the instrument, they will usually do their > best, at whatever cost to them, until things become unbearable. > Does a good organbuilder really put useless stops in an organ just = to > enhance its size? Think rationally -- every instrument is an advertisement. > The current organist may not grasp the point of a certain stop, but = their > predecessor and successor most likely will. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >  
(back) Subject: My mistake From: "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:43:25 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_003E_01C2D78E.624F3080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   My last entry, Oh the value of a Larigot, was in response to TubaMagna's = =3D post about limited resources.     ------=3D_NextPart_000_003E_01C2D78E.624F3080 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>My last entry, Oh the value of a =3D Larigot, was in=3D20 response to TubaMagna's post about limited=3D20 resources.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_003E_01C2D78E.624F3080--  
(back) Subject: Digital bashing From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:43:51 +0000 (GMT)   Hello,   I obviously love pipe organs more than any other, but how many people are intrigued by the astonishing achievements of digital instrument makers in the past three decades or so?   As something of a recording buff and hi-fi enthusiast, I have been in awe of recent advances, of which the digital organ is but a small part.   I can understand traditional organ-builders resenting the plagiarism of those who sample their work and then push them onto the touchline financially. However, the musicians should never resent anything which strives towards ever better sounds and simulations.   Make no mistake, the digital organ manufacturers have made enormous strides and now seem to be producing quite worthy instruments musically.   The fact that a pipe-organ, when made by a master craftsman and voiced by a tonal master, is the very best available to a musician, should not be allowed to cloud our perspective.   A truly fine pipe-organ is an act of faith.....something created for both immediate enjoyment and for posterity.   I have mentioned this before, but the small instrument I play is a masterpiece. In fact, it is so good that I have never wanted for more.   That stated, there are days when I practise French romantic repertoire and long for a big French sound at the flick of a switch, or a big Steinmeyer for Reger.   The digital organ makers would never claim that they produce finer organs than those built by Skinner, Cavaille-Coll, Silbermann, Schnitger, Lewis or Hill.   What they do, they do increasingly well....that is integrity! Allen were, after all, serious enough about getting it right, that they had Larry Phelps on board.   If that means that pipe organ builders have to really think about what they are doing and build better organs, then the digital makers have done us proud!   We are fortunate that, in this day and age, we can have practise organs at our disposal which sound good and do not require a seperate organ-house.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK > Andrew Barss <andrew.barss@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >     > I'll take this opportunity to express > mydisappointment over (IMHO) a > lot of digital "bashing"   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Staying on topic From: "Jim Hailey" <jhaileya10@charter.net> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:04 -0600   Dennis,   Please read number 17 of the guidelines and netiquette for the group.   Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "First Christian Church of Casey, IL" <kzrev@rr1.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:13 PM Subject: Staying on topic     > And I would hope before we venture too extensively in this direction = that we > remember the name of this group: PIPEchat! > > With friendly thanks, > Dennis Steckley > ___________ > > Subject: Re: Recent postings re Rodgers > From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@shaw.ca> > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:11:15 -0600 > > Excuse me Chester (and Rick), > > I've got no axe to grind between Rodgers and Allen - both produce fine > products of their type. > > > This world in arms is not spending money alone; it is spending the sweat of > the laborers, the genius of the scientists, and the hopes of its = children. > This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of > threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.--Dwight > Eisenhower > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >