PipeChat Digest #3481 - Thursday, February 20, 2003
 
Re: Digital bashing
  by "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com>
Recent postings re Rodgers: CLOSE, But NO Cigar !
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Mea Culpa
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Re: Mea Culpa
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
RE: Peasant  music
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Staying on topic
  by "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net>
Re: My last message
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
Re: French Organs
  by "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com>
test
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
Kaiser strikes again
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Casavant Opus 3819 Install (X-post)
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
RE: Mea Culpa
  by "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Digital bashing From: "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:00:03 -0500   My last church job actually had a 37 rank Galanti digital organ. The = pastor was trying to move towards more contemporary service (with a praise band, etc), but was very hesistant because everyone loved the organ. Sure, it wasn't a pipe organ, but had that instrument not been there when he = arrived there would never have been a chance of them having any organ for leading worship. The AGO mission statement that we all know and love says:   The purpose of the American Guild of Organists is to promote the organ in its historic and evolving roles, to encourage excellence in the = performance of organ and choral music, and to provide a forum for mutual support, inspiration, education, and certification of Guild members.   Even if a church can't afford a pipe organ, we can still promote the organ through digital venues.   Jim Clouser BM candidate, Cleveland Institute of Music Music Director/Organist Reformation Evangelical Lutheran Church Eastlake, Ohio       ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:47 PM Subject: RE: Digital bashing     > You know what's funny? People say the same thing about Computers, they > probably said the same thing about "horseless carriages." It's even funnier > that we keep debating this. My personal feeling: they're here, and they're > not going anywhere. Prefer whichever you want, but leave the rest of us to > our own preferences. > > Now, having said that, yes, I do prefer a GOOD pipe organ, but would equally > make satisfactory use of a GOOD digital if that's the what the congregation > has. I've said this on a different list, and it still applies: it's = what > the organ is there for in the first place that matters; not what creates the > sound. That's from a liturgical and worship standpoint. If you want to get > into recording or concertizing, then I could see why it might matter. > Either way, I love to play the ORGAN. :) > > You know, what is really sad are those churches that have HORRIBLE pipe > organs and think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. I can name > one particular congregation I used to serve which had an 8-rank Wicks, which > they moved into the new sanctuary, and it sounds WORSE than it did in = the > original room....and they still think it's great!! Sigh > > Hope you all are having a great week! > > Respectfully to ALL... > > Jeff :-) > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >  
(back) Subject: Recent postings re Rodgers: CLOSE, But NO Cigar ! From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:31:50 -0500   This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   ----__JNP_000_2681.3caf.5871 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Before we get too far into "Revisionist History" let's just set a few facts straight.   On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:11:15 -0600 Russ Greene <rggreene2@shaw.ca> writes: > Excuse me Chester (and Rick), > > I've got no axe to grind between Rodgers and Allen - both produce > fine > products of their type. > > BUT, Rodgers certainly did not develop or introduce the world's > first microprocessor organ.   TRUE> > The digital, microprocessor-driven organ was developed by Allen   FALSE - the micro-processor driven organ was developed by Rockwell. and brought to market in 1971. It was one of the first two consumer > products to use the then brand-new microprocessor technology, the > other being the Sharp calculator, first of its type.   FALSE - the first calculator was marketed by Texas Instruments > To achieve this feat, for which Allen and Jerome Markovitch won > numerous prestigious awards,   Allen participated in basic research with North American Rockwell who was developing microchips with NASA as their primary client.   FALSE - the system was presented to Allen in total. Allen did NOT do any of the "basic research" > By 1980, everybody was using microprocessors in a wide variety of > products.   Rodgers was late to the plate in this area.   TRUE - BUT - not quite the real picture. The Rockwell system was offered to Rodgers FIRST ! After analyzing the results, Rodgers passed on the "Version 1.0" of a digital organ and continued makeing analog instruments until they had developed a system they thought was worthy. > TTFN, > Russ Greene >   NOTE: I have no connection whatsoever to either Rodgers OR Allen. I did work for a Rodgers dealer in this era.     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY ----__JNP_000_2681.3caf.5871 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3Dcontent-type = content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3DISO-8859-1> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bottomMargin=3D3D0 leftMargin=3D3D3 topMargin=3D3D0 = rightMargin=3D3D3> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Before we get too far into "Revisionist History" let's just set a few = =3D facts=3D20 straight.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:11:15 -0600 Russ Greene &lt;<A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:rggreene2@shaw.ca">rggreene2@shaw.ca</A>&gt; = writes:<BR>&gt;=3D Excuse=3D20 me Chester (and Rick),<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've got no axe to grind between = =3D Rodgers=3D20 and Allen - both produce <BR>&gt; fine <BR>&gt; products of their = type.<BR>=3D &gt;=3D20 <BR>&gt; BUT, Rodgers certainly did not develop or introduce the = world's=3D20 <BR>&gt; first&nbsp; microprocessor organ.<BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>TRUE</STRONG>&gt; <BR>&gt; The digital, microprocessor-driven = =3D organ=3D20 was developed by Allen</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>FALSE - the micro-processor driven organ was developed = by=3D20 Rockwell.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;and&nbsp; brought to market in 1971. It was one of the first = two=3D =3D20 consumer <BR>&gt; products to use the then brand-new microprocessor =3D technology,=3D20 the <BR>&gt; other&nbsp; being the Sharp calculator, first of its=3D20 type.<BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>FALSE - the first calculator was marketed by Texas=3D20 Instruments<BR></STRONG>&gt; To achieve this feat, for which Allen and =3D Jerome=3D20 Markovitch won <BR>&gt; numerous prestigious awards, </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Allen participated in basic research&nbsp; with&nbsp; North = American=3D20 Rockwell who was developing microchips with NASA as&nbsp;<BR> their = primary=3D =3D20 client.<BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>FALSE - the system was presented to Allen in total. Allen did = =3D NOT=3D20 do any of the "basic research" <BR></STRONG>&gt; By 1980, everybody was =3D using=3D20 microprocessors in a wide variety of <BR>&gt; products. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Rodgers was late to the plate in this area.<BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>TRUE - BUT - not quite the real picture. The Rockwell system = =3D was=3D20 offered to Rodgers FIRST !&nbsp; After analyzing the results, Rodgers =3D passed on=3D20 the "Version 1.0" of a digital organ and continued makeing analog =3D instruments=3D20 until they had developed a system they thought was worthy.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>&nbsp;<BR></STRONG>&gt; TTFN,<BR>&gt; Russ = Greene<BR>&gt;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG>NOTE: I have no connection whatsoever to either Rodgers OR = =3D Allen. I=3D20 did work for a Rodgers dealer in this era.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><BR>Douglas A. Campbell<BR>Skaneateles, NY<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ----__JNP_000_2681.3caf.5871--     ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com  
(back) Subject: Mea Culpa From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:53:22 -0600   My apologies to any who were offended by my remarks about concentrating on pipe organs. I fully agree that digitals are getting better and better, and I wouldn't even quibble that a great digital is preferable to a poor pipe organ. That being said, (this almost sounds like consubstantiation!), I think pipes have a "real presence" that is lacking in digitals. In any case, my congregation has a Yamaha Electone!!! In my experience, there are many, many churches that think spending even $10k on an organ is extravagant.   Dennis Steckley   Every gun that is made and every warship that is launched, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed--Dwight Eisenhower        
(back) Subject: Re: Mea Culpa From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:11:13 -0500   At 08:53 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote: >My apologies to any who were offended by my remarks about concentrating >on pipe organs. I fully agree that digitals are getting better and >better, and I wouldn't even quibble that a great digital is preferable >to a poor pipe organ. That being said, (this almost sounds like >consubstantiation!), I think pipes have a "real presence" that is >lacking in digitals. In any case, my congregation has a Yamaha >Electone!!! In my experience, there are many, many churches that think >spending even $10k on an organ is extravagant. > >Dennis Steckley   Dennis,   I would say that in general you are right. The presence that pipes have, and present to the room and listener, contain all the harmonics that are produced, whereas with digital organs quite often, it seems that there is = a cutoff of the high harmonics. This could be because of any number of factors, included, system limitations, filtering, speakers etc. Speakers especially, and also when there are only a few of them, have a tendency to =   project sound in a narrower beam as the frequency goes up, so the further one is off-axis to the speakers, the more you lose harmonic content. It = is much easier to find the speaker that is making a high pitch sound, than it =   is to find a high pitch pipe that sounding, because the pipe sprays sound in every direction. That is just my thoughts on the subject. I have been =   absorbed for the last 23 years trying to find the magic solution to making =   digitals sound like pipes in every way. We still have some ways to go!   Regards,   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: RE: Peasant music From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:37:14 -0600   Our fearless leader say's nukular -- get it right Mitchell!   -----Original Message----- From: Colin Mitchell [mailto:cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:22 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Peasant music   Hello,   Nuclear is better!   ;-)   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   --- Paul Valtos <chercapa@enter.net> wrote: > Colin, > I bet you use petrol to start a fire huh? > =20 > Paul     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Staying on topic From: "Teah" <teahzg@charter.net> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:55:50 -0600   Jim wrote:   "I am not going to get into the digital vs. pipe debate again. This = always causes tempers to fly and there is never a winner. But, on the back side, people should not feel second class just because they play and enjoy a digital instrument."   Jim,   I certainly don't feel like a second-class organist. I am fortunate to = own a very fine custom digital organ. Since I had my a$$ climbed for = mentioning the builder's name, I will omit it here. Would I prefer pipes? Certainly! The problem is, owning a small house, pipes would be completely = impractical .... even a small Unit Organ. Besides, having 3 ranks of pipes as opposed = to 37 independent high quality digital ranks is a no brainer IMHO.   Cheers,   Tim       --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.456 / Virus Database: 256 - Release Date: 2/18/2003    
(back) Subject: Re: My last message From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:06:50 -0600   Hi! Thanks for the message. I think I should add another level to what I said...All opinions are equally valid because they express the thoughts of the particular person from which they are coming HOWEVER all opinions are not advice material. A 10 year-old violin student may very well have an opinion that his/her violin is the best thing going BUT that doesn't mean that that student should be giving advice to others about vioin purchases. That was what I meant with regards to Mr. Lind....his opinion is perfectly valid and he is not give people advice not to hear and study French organs, so no harm done...   Hope this clears up what I meant.. Beau Surratt, Organist St. Peter's UCC, Elmhurst,IL Organ Performance Major, Northern Illinois University, DeKalb,IL     -----Original Message----- From: Del Case <dcase@puc.edu> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:14:58 -0700 Subject: Re: My last message   > > > Beau Surratt wrote: > > > > Hi! > > .we ALL have our opinions and they are ALL equally > > valid but we ALL need to watch out how we express them > > Beau Surratt, Organist > > Beau - I must, hopefully with respect, disagree about all > opinions being equally valid. If you were looking for a > violin for your 10 year old daughter to continue her promising > study on, would you take the opinion of another 10 or 12 year > old violin student as equal with the opinion of, perhaps, > Joshua Bell? I hardly think so. > > I am looked to as a professional for advice about organs and > have served as a paid consultant in a number of situations. > My opinions are thought to be more valid that those with > less education, experience, etc. In turn I, at times, seek > the opinions of others that I know have more expertise than > I have in certain areas. No. All opinions are not equally > valid. But yes, I heartily agree with the need for care in > the way they are expressed and have frequently been offended > by the way some on the list express themselves. I am glad > you spoke out. > > Del W. Case > Pacific Union College > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: French Organs From: "Beau Surratt" <Beau.Surratt@theatreorgans.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:50:28 -0600   Hi! I don't really think that anyone said in any way that French Organs are bad. I think French organs are wonderful, but that does not mean that I care for the sound. Sure, you get closest to the sounds the composer knew playing on those instruments, but does that mean you have to prefer that sound over anything else for that music? I've heard Vierne on recordings of French organ and I've heard Martin Jean play Vierne at Woolsey Hall and I personally prefer the smoother Skinner sound that the more strident Cavaille Coll sound. I DON'T, however, think that one organ is inherently better than the other. Nothing would delight me more than to be able to play Franck, Vierne,etc. on a Cavaille Coll but again, that still would not mean that I prefer the CC sound.Besides, playing certain idiomatic organ works on instruments other than those for which they were written can bring a new dimension. I enjoy listening to recordings of organs from all periods and countries. As far as what youth has to do with which sound I prefer, I don't think the two are related. I know many organists in their 20's through 80's that have the same preferences as I for French music. I don't think that indicated the fact that I or anyone else needs to grow up. Incidentally, when I studied at Yale Organ Week, most of the literature that was played in recital at Woolsey Hall was French, not English or American.     Respectfully, > Having travelled fairly widely in France and played many organs by > Cavaille > Coll I can only say that apart from the Amercian Cathedral in Paris (if > it > is still there) I have never played a bad one. They are a bit like > french > food - possibly an acquired taste and maybe you need to like garlic, > (essential provided it is not overdone) - but they are of first rate > quality, with invariably superb sounds and terrific character. From the > smallest to the largest they are magnificent, to my experience equalled > only > by the great English builders of the time, Willis, Hill, Harrison and > Walker. (Earlier English builders were equally great, as were earlier > French > ones.) Youth seems to get carried away at times - patronising old age > speaking here - but keep an open mind. Listen. Maybe you'll grow up. > The > first time I heard Lionel Rogg play Couperin at the Royal Festival Hall > I > thought he had got the rhythm all wrong - then I learned about "notes > inegales" and realised I'd got it all wrong. > John Foss > www.johnfoss.gr > > > www.johnfoss.gr > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: test From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:00:19 -0500   test      
(back) Subject: Kaiser strikes again From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:26:30 -0800   I am out of hospital; I nearly ... um ... exited stage left (of course) (grin), due to yet another Kaiser misdiagnosis. I have had cellulitis for a long time, evidently; it got to the life-threatening stage before they stopped diagnosing it as the "flu" (GRRRR!). So I'm home with nurses and an IV; all is well.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Casavant Opus 3819 Install (X-post) From: "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:15:53 -0500   On Feb. 10th, Casavant Opus 3819 arrived at the First Presbyterian Church of Skaneateles, NY. The organ filled a 47' tractor-trailer and was met by Robert Hiller and Keith Campbell of the Alan T. Jackson Company of Toronto, who would be doing the installation.   After 7 hours of unloading, the organ lay in pieces...EVERYWHERE ! (Funny, I didn't see the little note that said; " Some Assembly Required !")   I have a photo album of pictures taken over the past two weeks at:   Http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=3D4290662571   I will continue to add pictures as the process continue.   For those interested here is the spec:     GRANDE ORGUE (II) 1. Bourdon (Recit) 16' ---- 2. Montre 8' 61 pipes 3. Flute a cheminee 8 61 4. Flute Harmonique 8 49 (1-12 common w/ No.3) 5. Prestant 4 61 6. Flute conique 4 61 7. Doublette 2 61 8. Fourniture IV 1-1/3 244 9. Basson (Recit) 16 ---- 10.Trompette 8 61 12. Cromorne (Positif) 8 ---- Chimes (New action w/ existing tubes)   RECIT (III) 13. Bourdon 16 12 (Stopped Wood ext of # 15) 14. Principal Etroit 8 61 15. Cor de nuit 8 61 16. Viole de gambe 8 61 17. Viox celeste (TC) 8 49 18. Octave 4 61 19. Flute Douce 4 61 20. Octavin 2 61 21 Plein jeu III-IV 2 232 22. Basson 16 12 (=BD length - ext of # 24) 23. Trompette 8 61 24. Hautbois 8 61   POSITIF EXPRESSIVE (I)   25. Bourdon (Stopped wood) 8 61 26. Flute Douce (1-12 stopped) 8 61 27. Flute celeste (TC) 8 49 28. Principal 4 61 29. Flute a fuseau 4 61 30. Nazard 2-2/3 61 31. Quarte de nazard 2 61 32. Tierce 1-3/5 61 33. Quinte 1-1/3 61 34. Cromorne 8 61 35. Haubois (Recit) 8 ---- 36. Contra trompette 16 ---- (from #54 & # 10) 37. Trompette (From # 10) 8 ---- 38. Clairon 4 ---- (From # 10 - top octave repeats) ECHO (floating) (Console preparation and switching only) 8 blank drawknobs MY note: This is the original 1928 Moller Echo div. It is in need of restoration, but will not be done at this time. =20 PEDALE   44. Soubasse (Digital) 32 ---- 45. Bourdon (Digital) 32 ---- 46. Montre Extension of # 49 16 12 47. Soubasse (Stopped wood) 16 32 48. Bourdon (Recit) 16 ---- 49. Octavebasse 8 32 50. Flute a cheminee 8 ---- (Grande Orgue - # 3) 51. Cor de niut (Recit) 8 ---- 52. Octave 4 32 53 Cor de nuit (Recit) 4 ---- 54. Bombarde 16 12 (Full length - ext of # 10) 55. Basson (Recit) 16 ---- 56. Trompette (Grande Orgue) 8 ---- 57. Hautbois (Recit) 8 ---- (same rk as # 55) 58. Clairon (Grande Orgue) 4 ---- 59. Hautbois (Recit) 4 ---- 60. Cromorne (Positif) 4 ----   Relay and Combo action to be SSL. The usual couplers are present, but for space I did not type them in.   TOTALS: 31 stops 37 ranks 2170 pipes         Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY  
(back) Subject: RE: Mea Culpa From: "Bill Sebring" <baircub@austin.rr.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:12:04 -0600   Of course, this may sound blasphemous, but it can technically be = considered true...the organ could be considered the first electro-mechanical synthesizer. (EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK! He said the "S" word!) When you think about it the pipes are designed to produce "synthesized" tones mimicking flutes, strings, brass, and reed instruments, as well as Vox Humana. and with coupling and super coupling? Uhm, heck, just consider that a VERY primitive form of Midi, in the non digital sense. So there you go, Moog technically wasn't the first to do it, and Taurus didn't make the first = bass pedals either.   Pipe organs did the whole she-bang first...so you all have something to rightfully crow about. :-{)}   Peace folks, have a good evening.   bill   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 8:53 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Mea Culpa     My apologies to any who were offended by my remarks about concentrating on pipe organs. I fully agree that digitals are getting better and better, and I wouldn't even quibble that a great digital is preferable to a poor pipe organ. That being said, (this almost sounds like consubstantiation!), I think pipes have a "real presence" that is lacking in digitals. In any case, my congregation has a Yamaha Electone!!! In my experience, there are many, many churches that think spending even $10k on an organ is extravagant.   Dennis Steckley   Every gun that is made and every warship that is launched, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed--Dwight Eisenhower         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org