PipeChat Digest #3490 - Saturday, February 22, 2003
 
ANNOUNCEMENT
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: "unexpressive"
  by "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net>
Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant
  by "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net>
Re: "unexpressive"
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: "unexpressive"
  by "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net>
Re: ANNOUNCEMENT
  by "Joshua Edwards" <organman@cablenet-va.com>
RE: Digital bashing
  by <melisma@uniserve.com>
Re: "unexpressive"
  by "Gary Blevins" <gsblvns@camalott.com>
"unexpressive"
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: Digital bashing
  by "Jonathan" <jhumbert@ptd.net>
Re: Out of topic but...
  by <melisma@uniserve.com>
Re: Out of topic but...
  by "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net>
 

(back) Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:06:21 EST     --part1_14.ad811fe.2b88351d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hello All   I wanted to send out a statement before the grapevine started.   Yesterday I resigned my position as organist-choirmaster at St. Louis Catholic Church in Austin, TX. I felt it in my best interest and in the = best interest of the parish that I seek a new position and, so, I have done so. = The main reasons:   1. lack of contract or any kind of documentation protecting my position 2. lack of job description of any kind 3. misrepresented and unsettled terms of hiring and benefits 4. no clear lines of accountability 5. extremely poor communication between most staff and administration 5. no control over the instrument, its maintenance or direction 6. no dedicated or overly-unshared rehearsal or performance space 7. office in one building, church in another, shared choir room/library = in another   To be honest, I am not the music director, the position for which I was hired, I am the choir conductor and occasional organist. No more, no = less. I have found this parish very difficult, even next to impossible to = survive in as a musician no matter how many efforts had been made. While most = would think these problems easy to improve, they have not been and will not be given the current status and climate of the parish. I must look out for myself and my own musical and spiritual development and, after much = prayer, consideration and receiving of ecclesiastical counseling, I am leaving.   When I submitted my resignation to the pastor, he was actually most = gracious and seemed to understand my reasons for leaving. I did not say "I wish to =   submit to you my resignation," I said "I am leaving the parish effective March 30." The two bright spots here have been the Parish Choir and my assistant. Those I am very sad to leave.   I am happy, however, that I will begin a new tenure in my hometown of Memphis, Tennessee as the Organist-Choirmaster of Holy Rosary Catholic Church. The irony is that I was confirmed in that church in 1980. Not = only do I have a very detailed and realistic job description, I also have an excellent salary/benefits package with very generous vacation, continuing = ed and an annual spiritual retreat. One of the main drawing factors however: = I will be overseeing the design and installation of a new pipe organ in the church. I am delighted! The church is quite beautiful and has = outstanding acoustics. It still has its high altar with a central Tabernacle flanked = by six high mass candles and two low mass candles. There is no carpet = anywhere in the building nor are there seat cushions. The choir and organ are high = in a rear gallery with a beautiful rose window. The staff and clergy are wonderful people and emote a true sense of spirituality and love.   In addition, I hope to get back in to the Orpheum in downtown Memphis, = which houses the first theatre pipe organ I ever saw, heard and played. It is = an original 1928 Wurlitzer 240 (with a brass trumpet) in a sumptuously = gorgeous Rapp and Rapp movie palace which has been completely and beautifully restored. It is time I get back into my element and do what I love to do best in a comfortable and in a gentle and collegial situation where I am truly = allowed and enabled to do the job for which I was hired. And going back to a familiar place where I still have family, friends and colleagues will help =   this tremendously. I will be on the job there for my first day Saturday, April 5.   Please keep me in your prayers as well as the good people at St. Louis = Church in Austin.   Scott F. Foppiano Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.   --part1_14.ad811fe.2b88351d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hello All<BR> <BR> I wanted to send out a statement before the grapevine started.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> Yesterday I resigned my position as organist-choirmaster at St. Louis = Cathol=3D ic Church in Austin, TX.&nbsp; I felt it in my best interest and in the = best=3D interest of the parish that I seek a new position and, so, I have done = so.&=3D nbsp; The main reasons:<BR> <BR> 1.&nbsp; lack of contract or any kind of documentation protecting my = positio=3D n<BR> 2.&nbsp; lack of job description of any kind<BR> 3.&nbsp; misrepresented and unsettled terms of hiring and benefits<BR> 4.&nbsp; no clear lines of accountability<BR> 5.&nbsp; extremely poor communication between most staff and = administration<=3D BR> 5.&nbsp; no control over the instrument, its maintenance or direction<BR> 6.&nbsp; no dedicated or overly-unshared rehearsal or performance = space<BR> 7.&nbsp; office in one building, church in another, shared choir = room/librar=3D y in another <BR> <BR> To be honest, I am not the music director, the position for which I was = hire=3D d, I am the choir conductor and occasional organist.&nbsp; No more, no = less.=3D &nbsp; I have found this parish very difficult, even next to impossible to = s=3D urvive in as a musician no matter how many efforts had been made.&nbsp; = Whil=3D e most would think these problems easy to improve, they have not been and = wi=3D ll not be given the current status and climate of the parish.&nbsp; I must = l=3D ook out for myself and my own musical and spiritual development and, after = m=3D uch prayer, consideration and receiving of ecclesiastical counseling, I am = l=3D eaving.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> When I submitted my resignation to the pastor, he was actually most = gracious=3D and seemed to understand my reasons for leaving.&nbsp; I did not say "I = wis=3D h to submit to you my resignation,"&nbsp; I said "I am leaving the parish = ef=3D fective March 30."&nbsp; The two bright spots here have been the Parish = Choi=3D r and my assistant.&nbsp; Those I am very sad to leave.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> I am happy, however, that I will begin a new tenure in my hometown of = Memphi=3D s, Tennessee as the Organist-Choirmaster of Holy Rosary Catholic = Church.&nbs=3D p; The irony is that I was confirmed in that church in 1980.&nbsp; Not = only=3D20=3D do I have a very detailed and realistic job description, I also have an = exce=3D llent salary/benefits package with very generous vacation, continuing ed = and=3D an annual spiritual retreat.&nbsp; One of the main drawing factors = however:=3D &nbsp; I will be overseeing the design and installation of a new pipe = organ=3D20=3D in the church.&nbsp; I am delighted!&nbsp; The church is quite beautiful = and=3D has outstanding acoustics.&nbsp; It still has its high altar with a = central=3D Tabernacle flanked by six high mass candles and two low mass = candles.&nbsp;=3D There is no carpet anywhere in the building nor are there seat = cushions.&nb=3D sp; The choir and organ are high in a rear gallery with a beautiful rose = win=3D dow.&nbsp; The staff and clergy are wonderful people and emote a true = sense=3D20=3D of spirituality and love.<BR> <BR> In addition, I hope to get back in to the Orpheum in downtown Memphis, = which=3D houses the first theatre pipe organ I ever saw, heard and played.&nbsp; = It=3D20=3D is an original 1928 Wurlitzer 240 (with a brass trumpet) in a sumptuously = go=3D rgeous Rapp and Rapp movie palace which has been completely and = beautifully=3D20=3D restored.<BR> <BR> It is time I get back into my element and do what I love to do best in a = com=3D fortable and in a gentle and collegial situation where I am truly allowed = an=3D d enabled to do the job for which I was hired.&nbsp; And going back to a = fam=3D iliar place where I still have family, friends and colleagues will help = this=3D tremendously.&nbsp; I will be on the job there for my first day Saturday, = A=3D pril 5.<BR> <BR> Please keep me in your prayers as well as the good people at St. Louis = Churc=3D h in Austin.<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D4=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D3D"Monotype Corsiva" LANG=3D3D"0"><B>Scott F. = Foppiano=3D </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></B><BR> Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#00000=3D 0" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" = FACE=3D3D"Mo=3D notype Corsiva" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_14.ad811fe.2b88351d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: "unexpressive" From: "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:51:53 -0500   All:   Every organ I have heard in which the pipes were out in the open sounded much brighter than those in which the pipes were crammed into a swell box. = .. Is it true that pipes within a swell box lose a lot of their upper = harmonics ? When pipes are voiced at the pipe shop, is this fact taken into account = ?   Who was it that proposed that all swell boxes should open on all sides except the back ? thus eliminating that "boxed-in" sound of a conventional swell box opening only from the front.   Even if an organ had no swell boxes at all, rendering it "unexpressive", I would prefer it that way to one with all the pipes in boxes. Expression could come from stop combinations. I see a lot of organs in which the Mixtures and many of the Principals are out of the "organ chamber" = standing in front. What a difference in the sound !!!!   Antoni    
(back) Subject: Re: "Celestes"+ French organ & music rant From: "John Seboldt" <rohrwerk@seboldt.net> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:55:41 -0600   At 12:50 PM 2/18/03 -0600, you wrote: >As to some CC organs I've heard, my wife and I liked to go to Notre Dame >whenever we went to Paris, and one time Pierre Cochereau in the middle of = a >mass was wailing away like a madman in a most self-serving, >circus-cum-freak-show display that had nothing to do with worship that we >could discern. It was shocking and inappropriate in the extreme. Subtlety >was the farthest thing from his mind.   Some aspects of M. Cochereau were indeed on the "tacky" side. Long ago in =   the predecessor to the AGO mag, there was an interview with him. In the course of this conversation, he was bragging about the just-rebuilt instrument. To the question about the possible loss of the original character of the instrument, he responded, "Nonsense. You just flip this switch under the Grand-Orgue manual, and only the original Cavaille-Coll stops sound." As if that were all that was necessary, ignoring all the other changes in winding, placement, and whatnot. The full organ, in most =   recordings I heard, sounded tacky indeed, all those chamades blatting away =   out of tune, the organ sounding literally like it was sticking its tongue out at me!   Still, a fun side of his tackiness was played in a recent BBC Choral Evensong broadcast - the final variation of his variations on Adeste Fideles, played at the conclusion of the Southwark Cathedral evensong. I found this to be kind of "fun-tacky", but when played on a loud sound (the =   T.C. Lewis instrument at Southwark being a much more cohesive and interesting "loud sound" than the electrocuted Notre-Dame device), it became an enjoyable bon-bon.   Yet earlier in his career, I heard a recording of the Vierne 2e Symphonie on the *original* Notre-Dame organ (well, at least in its state before electrocution), and this was interesting - can't remember much, but the performance was certainly devoid of excesses, and the organ came off as a massive sound perhaps needing some renovation and tuning, but more recognizably C-C.   A rambling about a rant,   John Seboldt Milwaukee    
(back) Subject: Re: "unexpressive" From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:20:31 -0800   Walter Holtkamp Sr. built a number of organs with shutters in the roof of the box ... Christ Church Cathedral, Cincinnati comes to mind.   That said, I'd think a box with shutters on three sides and/or the roof would give a LESS focused sound.   Both the English and French choral and organ literature (as well as the Anglican service) require a box that can close down really TIGHT and give a pp dynamic, even if Full Swell to Reeds is drawn. Properly voiced, that "banked fires of hell" sound is one of the most thrilling and characteristic sounds of a romantic organ.   Cheers,   Bud   Antoni Scott wrote: > > All: > > Every organ I have heard in which the pipes were out in the open sounded > much brighter than those in which the pipes were crammed into a swell = box. . > Is it true that pipes within a swell box lose a lot of their upper = harmonics > ? When pipes are voiced at the pipe shop, is this fact taken into = account ? > > Who was it that proposed that all swell boxes should open on all sides > except the back ? thus eliminating that "boxed-in" sound of a = conventional > swell box opening only from the front. > > Even if an organ had no swell boxes at all, rendering it "unexpressive", = I > would prefer it that way to one with all the pipes in boxes. Expression > could come from stop combinations. I see a lot of organs in which the > Mixtures and many of the Principals are out of the "organ chamber" = standing > in front. What a difference in the sound !!!! > > Antoni > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: "unexpressive" From: "Paul Valtos" <chercapa@enter.net> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:30:04 -0500   Dear Antoni, I think that brightness can be controlled by voicing and finishing = and any shuttered pipes, can have their brightness controlled by the opening = and closing of the swell shutters. On some of the old Mollers I've run into of about 11 to 15 ranks, the swell stops have their chests set up in a way where those stops you want to speak crisply are located immediately behind the front of the shutters whereas others are located further to the back = of the box. It is interesting to see how the thought patterns evolved in = design and installation of pipe organs when you study the placement of the ranks. One Moller had a set of 2' pipes installed at the rail of the facade right behind the principal facade pipes. Maybe someone on the list can tell us = the reason. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antoni Scott" <ascott@ptd.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:51 PM Subject: Re: "unexpressive"     > All: > > Every organ I have heard in which the pipes were out in the open sounded > much brighter than those in which the pipes were crammed into a swell = box. .. > Is it true that pipes within a swell box lose a lot of their upper harmonics > ? When pipes are voiced at the pipe shop, is this fact taken into = account ? > > Who was it that proposed that all swell boxes should open on all sides > except the back ? thus eliminating that "boxed-in" sound of a = conventional > swell box opening only from the front. > > Even if an organ had no swell boxes at all, rendering it "unexpressive", = I > would prefer it that way to one with all the pipes in boxes. Expression > could come from stop combinations. I see a lot of organs in which the > Mixtures and many of the Principals are out of the "organ chamber" standing > in front. What a difference in the sound !!!! > > Antoni > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: ANNOUNCEMENT From: "Joshua Edwards" <organman@cablenet-va.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:15:11 -0500   Scott,   I'm sorry to hear that you were having problems, but all is well that ends well. I wish you godspeed in all you attempt and good luck in = Memphis!   Josh Edwards Interim Director of Music Thaxton Baptist Church Bedford, VA      
(back) Subject: RE: Digital bashing From: <melisma@uniserve.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:50:43 +0900   Quoting Jeff White <reedstop@prodigy.net>:   > You know, I was musing about this topic earlier.....do you suppose that = on > piano lists, they debate over acoustic vs. electronic? Or on guitar = lists, > acoustic vs. electric? Seriously, I wonder.... :-) > > Jeff >     Actually, I'm on a piano list, and yes, they do :D Worse, it's a piano teacher's list, and you'd think that piano teachers would be grateful for = any students' interest, even if all they have to practice on is an electronic keyboard.   I taught 'piano' in West Africa a few years ago, where only one of my = students had an acoustic piano to practice on - in fact, most of my students had to = go to other people's houses to practice (most of the time on keyboards), and = I brought my keyboard with me to their lessons in their own homes. They were = just so grateful to have someone to study with, and something to practice on, = that the type of instrument they played didn't matter. And most of them, even = the children, wanted to be able to play for their church. The churches over = there, at least their churches - I mustn't make broad generalizations, sorry - = were so short of musicians that they were happy to find someone who could play = with two fingers to accompany the hymns...   More stories later if you want, but I'll go back to lurking for now :)   Melisma (going back into hiding here under her Rock)    
(back) Subject: Re: "unexpressive" From: "Gary Blevins" <gsblvns@camalott.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:46:28 -0600   nag's head swell? invented 1712?   "     > Without swell boxes, just how DID Bach achieve expression? > Writers' rule number 783: > Choose your words, and their antecedents, WISELY. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: "unexpressive" From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:49:36 -0600   I have heard the Skinner Organ at the First Congregational Church of Evanston,Il. The Tromba 8' is in a box with it's own set of swell shade that open into the swell box. When both boxes are closed and the Tromba is drawn, he opened the Tromba box a bit into the close swell box and then kicked them both open and I thought the roof was going to collapse. What = a thrilling affect that was to experience. It felt like the sound was coming out of your chest. Love those Romantic styled organs. Gary ( still have the 16' faggoto on the dining room table). lol      
(back) Subject: Re: Digital bashing From: "Jonathan" <jhumbert@ptd.net> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:47:57 -0500   "I do just that. I go play a pipe organ, make beautiful music on a pipe organ, and don't bother with bashing stereotypical (or even = monaurotypical) FAKE organ-like appliances. I have muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better = things to do!! ;-)   Like making beautiful music on a pipe organ!"     Bruce,   Respectfully, I hope you are thankful each and every day that you have the wonderful privilege to do this. I can only pray that someday I may have = the opportunity to do this same thing.   Until then, Jonathan Humbert    
(back) Subject: Re: Out of topic but... From: <melisma@uniserve.com> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:53:08 +0900   >>On 2/21/03 6:08 PM, "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> wrote: >> >> My Godness- are you folks in the NY area all right ?! >> >Thanks for your good wishes, Andr=E9s. With the exception of three or = four >people, we're fine. Just an accident at a fuel-transferring facility. = Very >dramatic, but (except for "these times") not anything to get terribly >excited about. > >Alan     On the other hand, this week a guy who had been under care for psychiatric =   things lit a milk container full of gas in a subway car in Daegu, here in southern Korea. The train was in station at the time and it went up like a =   Christmas tree, with all sorts of toxic gases being emitted from the = benches and walls and stuff like that. Apparently a good number of the people on = that train managed to escape, but subway control failed to stop another train = from coming into the station four minutes later, and that train caught fire as = well. They had turned off the power to try to contain the fire, so the doors = wouldn't open, and people got trapped... They have confirmed 130 dead (although we expect it to go higher) and many more horribly injured. And since this is = a cell phone society, there are all sorts of stories about dying people = calling their loved ones from the train to say good-bye, or pleading for help, and = so forth. The guy who started it all actually got out alive, and claims that = he wanted to commit suicide and take a lot of people with him... This whole = thing has really hit all of Korea hard, even us expats. (I'm teaching ESL for a = year in Seoul, and it's been all my students wanted to talk about this last = week...)   Anyway, sorry for the OT, but if anyone here is a praying person, we all = would appreciate your prayers as we try to deal with it. If you aren't a praying =   person, that's okay - kind thoughts are appreciated too...   Melisma (going back into hiding here under her Rock)    
(back) Subject: Re: Out of topic but... From: "Vern Jones" <soundres@foothill.net> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:30:07 -0800   Hello,   I feel for those people in Taegu City. The subway once again claims lives. First the school children that were along the unfinished portion of the subway. A worker accidentally ignited gas from a gas leak and the subway blew up killing the school children along the street where the construction was occurring. I thanked God at that time, as I had been at that very location the day before and had noticed the school children arriving for school. There must have been about 200 of them at that time of day along the street. Now the same subway 8 years later claims more lives. Some may have been people that I might have known or had association with. My prayers are with their families, may God be with them.   Vern   melisma@uniserve.com wrote: >=20 > >>On 2/21/03 6:08 PM, "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> wrote: > >> > >> My Godness- are you folks in the NY area all right ?! > >> > >Thanks for your good wishes, Andr=E9s. With the exception of three or= four > >people, we're fine. Just an accident at a fuel-transferring facility.= Very > >dramatic, but (except for "these times") not anything to get terribly > >excited about. > > > >Alan >=20 > On the other hand, this week a guy who had been under care for psychiat= ric > things lit a milk container full of gas in a subway car in Daegu, here = in > southern Korea. The train was in station at the time and it went up lik= e a > Christmas tree, with all sorts of toxic gases being emitted from the be= nches > and walls and stuff like that. Apparently a good number of the people o= n that > train managed to escape, but subway control failed to stop another trai= n from > coming into the station four minutes later, and that train caught fire = as well. > They had turned off the power to try to contain the fire, so the doors = wouldn't > open, and people got trapped... They have confirmed 130 dead (although = we > expect it to go higher) and many more horribly injured. And since this = is a > cell phone society, there are all sorts of stories about dying people c= alling > their loved ones from the train to say good-bye, or pleading for help, = and so > forth. The guy who started it all actually got out alive, and claims th= at he > wanted to commit suicide and take a lot of people with him... This whol= e thing > has really hit all of Korea hard, even us expats. (I'm teaching ESL for= a year > in Seoul, and it's been all my students wanted to talk about this last = week...) >=20 > Anyway, sorry for the OT, but if anyone here is a praying person, we al= l would > appreciate your prayers as we try to deal with it. If you aren't a pray= ing > person, that's okay - kind thoughts are appreciated too... >=20 > Melisma (going back into hiding here under her Rock) >=20 > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org