PipeChat Digest #3362 - Wednesday, January 8, 2003
 
Re: Take a stand and make a difference!
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: Introduction
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Repertoire Suggestions Request
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Re: Introduction
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Repertoire Suggestions Request
  by "Jim C" <cromornecipher@hotmail.com>
Heimorgelbau
  by <Kzimmer0817@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Cleaner
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
RE: Heimorgelbau
  by "vincent lefevre" <vincent.lefevre@tiscali.be>
Travelling by Train (long)
  by "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com>
Netherlands/Dutch/Hollander
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Netherlands/Dutch/Hollander
  by "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com>
Re: Netherlands/Dutch/Hollander
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: Travelling by Train (long)
  by <Chicaleee@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Take a stand and make a difference! From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 07:55:54 EST     --part1_1bd.1a73fbd9.2b4d79da_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I've been reading the pipechat digests. I'm not a member of ATOS, but = have considered becoming one mainly so that I can learn more about organs - especially now that I have one.   I hope I'm not the only one who is ignorant on this issue, if so, please enlighten me privately, but....   What exactly is the issue that requires a stand to be taken.   Sincerely, Keith   --part1_1bd.1a73fbd9.2b4d79da_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I've been reading the pipechat digests.&nbsp; = I'm not a member of ATOS, but have considered becoming one mainly so that = I can learn more about organs - especially now that I have one.<BR> <BR> I hope I'm not the only one who is ignorant on this issue, if so, please = enlighten me privately, but....<BR> <BR> What exactly is the issue that requires a stand to be taken.<BR> <BR> Sincerely,<BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1bd.1a73fbd9.2b4d79da_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Introduction From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:31:48 -0500   On 1/8/03 3:36 AM, "David Smit" <DavidS@astrolabegroup.com> wrote:   > Sawubona, wamukelekile e amaList! > Dumela, wenkelekile amaLista ba mo! > Goeiedag, Welkom te die List! > Just guessing: Afrikaans?   Alan    
(back) Subject: Repertoire Suggestions Request From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:26:18 EST     --part1_170.18e0acc7.2b4dc74a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Organ prelude and postlude repertoire suggestions for an Annual Martin = Luther King, Jr. Life and Legacy Commemoration (Monday, January 20) needed. = Please share title/composer/collection and/or publisher of compositions you have found to be effective for such services. This year's service will focus = on the themes of peace and justice rather specifically.   Dale G. Rider, MSM, CAGO Organist/Director of Music Ministries First Baptist Church /American Kansas City, Missouri   --part1_170.18e0acc7.2b4dc74a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">Organ prelude and postlude repertoire = suggestions for an <B><I>Annual</B></I> <B><I>Martin Luther King, Jr. Life = and Legacy Commemoration </B></I>(Monday, January 20) needed. Please share = title/composer/collection and/or publisher of compositions you have found = to be effective for such services.&nbsp; This year's service will focus on = the themes of peace and justice rather specifically.<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Book Antiqua" LANG=3D"0">Dale G. Rider, = </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D1 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Book Antiqua" LANG=3D"0"><I>MSM, = CAGO<BR> Organist/Director of Music Ministries</I><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Book Antiqua" LANG=3D"0"><B>First = Baptist Church</B> /American<BR> Kansas City, Missouri<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></HTML>   --part1_170.18e0acc7.2b4dc74a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Introduction From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:39:22 -0500   On 1/8/03 3:36 AM, "David Smit" <DavidS@astrolabegroup.com> wrote:   > Hi, > > Not necessarily:-) > > Sawubona, wamukelekile e amaList! > Dumela, wenkelekile amaLista ba mo! > Goeiedag, Welkom te die List! > And finally > Hello, Welcome to the List. (for those who don't get all of this - = snigger > snigger) > > Dave S > Zulu, Swahili, and Afrikaans? (Gotta beat TommyLee to this!)   Alan >>    
(back) Subject: Re: Repertoire Suggestions Request From: "Jim C" <cromornecipher@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:50:15 -0500   Mr. Rider:   The first thing that came to my mind was George Shearing's arrangement of "Amazing Grace! How Sweet the Sound". It begins with soloed out melody = and flute accompaniment, and ends with big. It may serve as an effective postlude. Good luck!   Jim Clouser BM candidate, Cleveland Institute of Music Director of Music/Organist Reformation Evangelical Lutheran Church Eastlake, Ohio           >From: ProOrgo53@aol.com >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Repertoire Suggestions Request >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:26:18 EST > >Organ prelude and postlude repertoire suggestions for an Annual Martin >Luther >King, Jr. Life and Legacy Commemoration (Monday, January 20) needed. = Please >share title/composer/collection and/or publisher of compositions you have >found to be effective for such services. This year's service will focus = on >the themes of peace and justice rather specifically. > >Dale G. Rider, MSM, CAGO >Organist/Director of Music Ministries >First Baptist Church /American >Kansas City, Missouri >     _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail    
(back) Subject: Heimorgelbau From: <Kzimmer0817@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:08:44 EST     --part1_168.18e13253.2b4dd13c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   List,   I just received my copy of Heimorgelbau by Karl Bormann. I ordered it = thru www.amazon.de. Anyway, I'm excited, but slightly disappointed. It isn't = a very thick book. The diagrams look much more technical than the ones in Milne or Wicks, though.   While I felt that the German I learned in college was a little more practical, I find myself understanding a lot more of the French I happen = to find than the German. That's probably due to the syntax. The French say things much the same way we do - only faster (which doesn't apply when reading) and they put their adverbs and adjectives after the words they're =   modifying. German is a little more complicated in that you really don't = know what's being said until you reach the end of the sentence. I've always = said that, when speaking German, you can still change what you're trying to say =   half way thru the sentence.   Anyway, I plan to run by Barnes 'n Noble to pick up a good German = dictionary and a copy of "501 German Verbs". I've misplaced my copies from my = college days. If nothing else, studying "Heimorgelbau" will get me familiar with = the German terms used in organbuilding so I will be able to communicate with fellow organauts overseas.   Keith   --part1_168.18e13253.2b4dd13c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">List,<BR> <BR> I just received my copy of Heimorgelbau by Karl Bormann.&nbsp; I ordered = it thru www.amazon.de.&nbsp; Anyway, I'm excited, but slightly = disappointed.&nbsp; It isn't a very thick book.&nbsp; The diagrams look = much more technical than the ones in Milne or Wicks, though.<BR> <BR> While I felt that the German I learned in college was a little more = practical, I find myself understanding a lot more of the French I happen = to find than the German.&nbsp; That's probably due to the syntax.&nbsp; = The French say things much the same way we do - only faster (which doesn't = apply when reading) and they put their adverbs and adjectives after the = words they're modifying.&nbsp; German is a little more complicated in that = you really don't know what's being said until you reach the end of the = sentence.&nbsp; I've always said that, when speaking German, you can still = change what you're trying to say half way thru the sentence.<BR> <BR> Anyway, I plan to run by Barnes 'n Noble to pick up a good German = dictionary and a copy of "501 German Verbs".&nbsp; I've misplaced my = copies from my college days.&nbsp; If nothing else, studying = "Heimorgelbau" will get me familiar with the German terms used in = organbuilding so I will be able to communicate with fellow organauts = overseas.<BR> <BR> Keith</FONT></HTML>   --part1_168.18e13253.2b4dd13c_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Cleaner From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:10:50 -0600   This product has the same effect as a good soap, only better. It is = called a "chelating agent". I use it in an untrasonic wash tank, but one can = certainly us it in an ordinary vat. Duane Montgomery suggests that with some water, = it can become slightly slimy. If this happens, he suggests adding a little vinegar to the solution. If spotted metal or lead is left in very long past the cleaning point, it = can cause a tarnish-like film to form. This is easily removed with dry paper towel after the pipes have dried. As I said, Peterson and others = originally marketed the product, and I am sure you could discuss the product further = with them.Duane Montgomery would also be willing to answer technical questions, = I am sure. Roy Redman     "Golden Eagle Organ Co." wrote:   > Roy Redman wrote: > > > I have found a supplier who will send out small quantities (gallons) = of > > the product called Versene 100, Hampene, or Disolvene. > > What kinds of things will this product remove from the pipes? Is it = useful > for cleaning off whiting or other similiar solder resisting compounds? = Can > it be used for removing tarnish? Just interested. > > Bill Thurmeier > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > Note: opinions expressed on PIPORG-L are those of the individual con- > tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni- > versity at Albany. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail to > listserv@listserv.albany.edu saying GET LSVCMMDS.TXT or see the web > page at http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/lsvcmmds.html . > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::    
(back) Subject: RE: Heimorgelbau From: "vincent lefevre" <vincent.lefevre@tiscali.be> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:33:20 +0100   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0003_01C2B75D.93DAD970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   suggest you contact list member Walter Krueger to assist you with the german syntax Vincent Lef=3DE8vre   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Kzimmer0817@aol.com Sent: woensdag 8 januari 2003 20:09 To: pipechat@pipechat.org; diyapason-l@pipechat.org Subject: Heimorgelbau     List,   I just received my copy of Heimorgelbau by Karl Bormann. I ordered it thru www.amazon.de. Anyway, I'm excited, but slightly disappointed. It isn't a very thick book. The diagrams look much more technical than the ones in Milne or Wicks, though.   While I felt that the German I learned in college was a little more practical, I find myself understanding a lot more of the French I happen to find than the German. That's probably due to the syntax. The French say things much the same way we do - only faster (which doesn't apply when reading) and they put their adverbs and adjectives after the words they're modifying. German is a little more complicated in that you really don't know what's being said until you reach the end of the sentence. I've always said that, when speaking German, you can still change what you're trying to say half way thru the sentence.   Anyway, I plan to run by Barnes 'n Noble to pick up a good German dictionary and a copy of "501 German Verbs". I've misplaced my copies from my college days. If nothing else, studying "Heimorgelbau" will get me familiar with the German terms used in organbuilding so I will be able to communicate with fellow organauts overseas.   Keith=3D20     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0003_01C2B75D.93DAD970 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Message</TITLE>   <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D139393120-08012003>suggest you contact list member Walter =3D Krueger to=3D20 assist you with the german syntax</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D139393120-08012003>Vincent Lef=3DE8vre</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3D3Den-us dir=3D3Dltr =3D align=3D3Dleft><FONT=3D20 face=3D3DTahoma size=3D3D2>-----Original = Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=3D20 pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] <B>On Behalf = Of=3D20 </B>Kzimmer0817@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> woensdag 8 januari 2003=3D20 20:09<BR><B>To:</B> pipechat@pipechat.org;=3D20 diyapason-l@pipechat.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=3D20 Heimorgelbau<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT = =3D lang=3D3D0=3D20 face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">List,<BR><BR>I just =3D received my copy of=3D20 Heimorgelbau by Karl Bormann.&nbsp; I ordered it thru =3D www.amazon.de.&nbsp;=3D20 Anyway, I'm excited, but slightly disappointed.&nbsp; It isn't a very = =3D thick=3D20 book.&nbsp; The diagrams look much more technical than the ones in =3D Milne or=3D20 Wicks, though.<BR><BR>While I felt that the German I learned in =3D college was a=3D20 little more practical, I find myself understanding a lot more of the =3D French I=3D20 happen to find than the German.&nbsp; That's probably due to the =3D syntax.&nbsp;=3D20 The French say things much the same way we do - only faster (which =3D doesn't=3D20 apply when reading) and they put their adverbs and adjectives after =3D the words=3D20 they're modifying.&nbsp; German is a little more complicated in that =3D you=3D20 really don't know what's being said until you reach the end of the=3D20 sentence.&nbsp; I've always said that, when speaking German, you can =3D still=3D20 change what you're trying to say half way thru the =3D sentence.<BR><BR>Anyway, I=3D20 plan to run by Barnes 'n Noble to pick up a good German dictionary and = =3D a copy=3D20 of "501 German Verbs".&nbsp; I've misplaced my copies from my = college=3D20 days.&nbsp; If nothing else, studying "Heimorgelbau" will get me =3D familiar with=3D20 the German terms used in organbuilding so I will be able to =3D communicate with=3D20 fellow organauts overseas.<BR><BR>Keith</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0003_01C2B75D.93DAD970--      
(back) Subject: Travelling by Train (long) From: "John Foss" <harfo32@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:21:32 +0000   TRAVELLING BY TRAIN   There is something deeply satisfying about travelling by train, provided = it is a special occasion and not a daily chore. On my relatively infrequent journeys I still get that feeling of mellow anticipation, a reminder that = it is better to travel hopefully than arrive. Today=92s journey from London=92s Euston to Liverpool=92s Lime Street is = one I used to take by steam train over 50 years ago when I went to stay with my Grandparents in the school holidays. In those days there was a magnificent =   Arch at the entrance to Euston, alas long since departed to the vandalism = of =93progress=94. Now many aspects of progress enhance the quality of life, = but elements of our civilization such as the Euston Arch, St Mary = Magdalene=92s, Paddington and the Granada, Walthamstow should be retained for posterity. = I cannot see the Tower of London or The Parthenon being knocked down for yet =   another featureless supermarket. It is the small miracles that matter as well as the big ones! There was a local suburban line running through a cutting at the bottom of =   our Liverpool garden. This was shortly after WW2 had come to an end, and = the railways had not fully recovered =96 in all honesty, they never did. The trains ran to a somewhat intermittent timetable and the plumes of smoke = and evocative sounds of exhaust valves followed no set pattern. I can smell = the rich aroma of those carriages today with their amalgam of condensed steam =   and smoke from the engine and stale tobacco! Oh Halcyon days! Whilst steam engines ran at one end of the garden, at the other end of the =   road ran the trams to Pier Head and Garston. Maybe there is someone out there who remembers the =93overhead=94 which started its journey in the = stygian depths next to the Gaumont, Dingle with its beautiful little Wurlitzer = organ in the hands of Reginald Porter-Brown. With his second touch skills two manuals sounded like four! The line ran over the docks of Liverpool, busy = in those days with cargoes coming and going in tramp steamers to all parts of =   the world. As my Virgin express hastened northwards through the Watford Gap I was struck by the elegant simplicity of Jessup=92s 200 year old Grand Union = Canal architecture, whose line the railway follows. As we cross and re-cross the =   canal the towpath frequently disappears beneath the recent floodwaters, = the line of the canal marked only by bridges mysteriously appearing from the waters. I spent yesterday at the console of the South Bank =93Mighty Wurlitzer=94. = This was a wonderful trip down memory lane, for I had last played this magnificent instrument in its original home in London=92s Trocadero, = cinema some 45 years ago. It has been superbly restored =96 one might almost say better than new =96 for the solid state computerized piston system allows = the player to set up precisely what he wants. There are a lot of pistons! 20 generals and a further 15 individuals per manual making 80 in total. It takes some time to set up, and that=92s only the beginning. You=92ve then = got to remember what=92s where. No mean feat. Actually, depending on the time available I would go for setting up say, 10 generals and repeating them = for the next 10, and simplifying the remainder in a similar way. I have a feeling that when I played it in 1958 it was set up for Quentin MacLean, = and had never been altered. The Crescendo pedal is useful for a dramatic cut back from full organ to, say 16 + 4 Tibia. A rich creamy sound. This = reduces the risk of landing on the Krumet and Glockenspiel, for example, which = might not be quite what one wants at that particular moment. If you are playing = in public here you need to rehearse your registration thoroughly to get the sounds you want. Quite apart from anything else, a hall seating 300 has = less forgiving acoustics than a 3,000 seat cinema, where the spacious resonance =   does some of your work for you! A recent discussion on hall acoustics brought forth the view that organs in resonant rooms were not good for dancing to, as it is difficult to follow the beat. I know the Tower Ballroom is used for dancing, but apart from that I would have thought that theatre =   organs were designed for listening and the symphonic and entertainment repertoire as per Andrew Grahame=92s planned series next month in Sydney. Symphonic use is not new of course =96 as his programme will show =96 and readers of this month=92s =93CINEMA ORGAN=94 will also see in John = Leeming=92s beautifully produced Journal of the COS. Visit Ian McIver=92s Virtual Radiogram for a taste of the repertoire during the golden age of the = cinema organ for downloadable files. Mozart, Brahms, Grieg, Chopin =96 and the = rest - all wrote pieces with catchy tunes which fit well into the symphonic organ =   repertoire alongside George Gershwin and Billy Mayerl! Our train pulled into Lime Street station on time =96 not bad for a = Saturday =96 and Iain Stinson was waiting to greet me across the Mersey at Birkenhead = to take me home for lunch and a session on the 3 manual Phoenix organ in his house. Very impressive =96 you can read all about it on his web site at www.stinson.org.uk Dave Bostock then joined us and, after a stop off at = the Church of the Good Shepherd in Wirral, which is home to a feisty 2 manual Rushworth & Dreaper organ of 1970, we continued on our way to the Anglican =   Cathedral in Liverpool. This magnificent building houses 3 organs of very different character. There is the magnum opus, the 5 manual Willis, either =   side of the transept with its 32=92 pedal pipes on the case, a 2 manual = Willis in the spacious lady chapel and the three manual West End organ, an electronic instrument by Phoenix. With its comprehensive specification = and powerful amplifier and speaker systems on the bridge and above the West door, in this building you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the main and the digital versions. I gave an impromptu recital =96 = two chorale preludes by Brahms, the Franck Choral no 2 in B minor, the Durufle =   Meditation, ending up with the Bonnet concert variations. I enjoyed = playing these pieces on this instrument in this building enormously, and as the console is situated in full view of the nave a small audience gathered. = The acoustics of buildings such as this are in a class of their own, and the organ sounds superb. Alas, a light fingered member of this company nicked = my new mini disk recorder, which I=92d thought was well hidden. Quel horreur! =   Actually, although I was upset to lose this marvel of modern technology, whose quality compares favourably with my old Revox 15 i.p.s. reel to reel =   machines of 30 years ago, it was the performance I was more upset about, = as this cannot so easily be recaptured. After this we went to listen to the 2 =   manual Willis organ downstairs in the Lady Chapel. This would do justice = to your average parish church =96 and its position in the West Gallery = focuses the sound to good effect. It was being fluently played by one of the assistant organists while we were there, who was practicing the Bach C major. So, after an enjoyable day, back to London. This has been a fruitful visit =   to the UK from my perch on Mount Olympus. In addition to these two major instruments I also renewed acquaintance with the splendid 3 manual Compton =   instrument St Mary Magdalene Paddington and played an interesting Henry Jones for the Christmas services at St Saviour=92s, Wendell Park, London W = 12, as well as hearing Simon Gledhill in recital at the Granada Walthamstow.     www.johnfoss.gr         _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail    
(back) Subject: Netherlands/Dutch/Hollander From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:02:03 -0500   On 1/7/03 8:01 PM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:   > Now, about the Dutch! > Colin, that's a good tale indeed. There are also (true???) stories about Wilhelmina's flatulence--but let that go. (As she did, I guess.)   On a much less entertaining level, what is it with the Dutch having three names for who they are: Netherlands (Nederlander?), Holland, and Dutch? The words seem to have no relationship to one another. I'll assume that "Holland" is an old piece of real estate (a county, perhaps) that is now part of The Netherlands. And "Dutch," I suppose, is "deutsch." But why = in the Netherlands?   Enuf.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Netherlands/Dutch/Hollander From: "Arie Vandenberg" <ArieV@classicorgan.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:30:07 -0500   At 06:02 PM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On 1/7/03 8:01 PM, "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > Now, about the Dutch! > > >Colin, that's a good tale indeed. There are also (true???) stories about >Wilhelmina's flatulence--but let that go. (As she did, I guess.) > >On a much less entertaining level, what is it with the Dutch having three >names for who they are: Netherlands (Nederlander?), Holland, and Dutch? >The words seem to have no relationship to one another. I'll assume that >"Holland" is an old piece of real estate (a county, perhaps) that is now >part of The Netherlands. And "Dutch," I suppose, is "deutsch." But why = in >the Netherlands? > >Enuf. > >Alan   Alan,   Netherlands literally means the lowlands (as in below sealevel, which most =   of the country is). Actually if I'm not mistaken this reclaiming of the land started when the Romans were running around there some 2,000 years = ago.   Holland is just part of the country. There are 2 provences, by that name South Holland and North Holland.   I'm not sure of the Dutch part, but you are likely right about it being a derivative of "Deutsch", as much as the Dutch may not like it, they are part of the Germanic family.   Arie V.      
(back) Subject: Re: Netherlands/Dutch/Hollander From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:38:37 +0000 (GMT)   Hello Alan,   I never know what Holland is about!   The Dutch seem to call themselves Hollanders, whilst the Netherlands includes the French speaking lot and the Flemish speaking lot in Belgium.   Southern Holland remains quite catholic to this day, but of course, it is a generally protestant country.   Further complications include the Walloons....I think they are the French speaking Netherlands Belgians.   My friends would know, but I fear the arrival of a truck carrying books and documents from Amsterdam.   In any event, the place is flat and boring except in the Ardennes (note the French) and it all results from the protestant monarchies of centuries ago.   They even call canals "Dykes".   If you ask me, the Netherlands is all "Oranges" and "Lemmens".   :) Regards,   Colin>   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Travelling by Train (long) From: <Chicaleee@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:58:29 EST     --part1_2b.3576c2cc.2b4e1525_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   John, thanks for your post. I was planning a bus trip to NY (1600+ = miles), but I could also take a train. That might be fun. I haven't been on a = train in years and it just came into Oklahoma in the past few years. It takes = the long way around and takes longer than the bus, and there is a change, but = it still might be fun. I like the bus as you can get off every 2 hours and = walk around, and I like the scenery along the way. (I can't afford air = travel.) Amtrak (the government train system) has specials now and then. But a = round trip ticket on a bus is only $150. As I am "elderly" I get a special = rate, as well as ADA (American with Disabilities) benefits.   This all was just to say I enjoyed your post very much. Lee   --part1_2b.3576c2cc.2b4e1525_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT COLOR=3D"#400040" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">John, thanks for your = post.&nbsp; I was planning a bus trip to NY (1600+ miles), but I could = also take a train.&nbsp; That might be fun.&nbsp; I haven't been on a = train in years and it just came into Oklahoma in the past few years.&nbsp; = It takes the long way around and takes longer than the bus, and there is a = change, but it still might be fun.&nbsp; I like the bus as you can get off = every 2 hours and walk around, and I like the scenery along the way.&nbsp; = (I can't afford air travel.) Amtrak (the government train system) has = specials now and then.&nbsp; But a round trip ticket on a bus is only = $150.&nbsp; As I am "elderly" I get a special rate, as well as ADA = (American with Disabilities) benefits.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> This all was just to say I enjoyed your post very much.&nbsp; = Lee</FONT></HTML>   --part1_2b.3576c2cc.2b4e1525_boundary--