PipeChat Digest #3796 - Wednesday, July 9, 2003
 
Re: Neo Baroque
  by "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re: Warped visions, warped trackers
  by "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu>
Re: Baldwin vs. Allen (Freud)
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin vs. Allen (Freud)
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Electronic parts availability
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin vs. Allen question
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Re: Bread and breads
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Warped visions, warped trackers
  by "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com>
vintage organs
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: Neo Baroque
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: Carving a niche in history
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
Re: Warped visions, warped trackers
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Baldwin vs. Allen question
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Bread and breads
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Neo Baroque From: "Bruce Cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:55:06 -0400   ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Del Case <dcase@puc.edu>   Its OK not to like neo-Baroque organs. But please don't blame them for things that are not their fault.   But, Del.... it's the American way. Blame the inanimate! Few of us want to face the reality: --some people don't go to recitals because they're tired from working too hard; --some people don't go to recitals because there are other ways of listening to music without actually "moving." --some people don't like organ recitals because musical tastes have swirled down the loo --some people don't like organ music because it's not cool or they're not smart enough to actually come up with a legitimate excuse for their bad taste --some people actually don't like organ music (go figure!) --some people don't go to organ recitals because they are uncomfortable in "someone else's" church --and the list goes on...   Some people blame recital programming for small audiences; but, people don't usually know what's on the program until they get there.   We live in hard times, musically, live with it, do your best, and try not to be in the way and get smacked in the head when the pendulum swings back. I don't worry about it any more since I'll be playing a heavenly tracker by that time! ;-)     Bruce Cornely and the Baskerbeagles in the Muttastery of HowlingAcres: http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 Click to help some animals: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i and http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421       ________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for viruses.      
(back) Subject: Re: Warped visions, warped trackers From: "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:07:05 -0700       Tyler Robertson wrote: > > We have been trying to get a new pipe organ in our building for > the past seven years.   Our last organ > was a II/26 Schudi built in 1983.   Hmmmmmmmm. Lets see. If the Schudi was built in 83 and needed to be replaced 7 years ago, what happened? ! ? ! ? ! It only lasted for 13 years? Unbelievable.     Del W. Case  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin vs. Allen (Freud) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:44:55 EDT     --part1_ac.43d1acf2.2c3da087_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/9/2003 8:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kzimmer0817@aol.com writes:   > Is this a real Freudian slip? What kind of instruments do you practice = on > in Conservatory? > >     --part1_ac.43d1acf2.2c3da087_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 7/9/2003 8:56:30 AM Eastern = Dayli=3D ght Time, Kzimmer0817@aol.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"A=3D rial" LANG=3D3D"0">Is this a real Freudian slip?&nbsp; What kind of = instrument=3D s do you practice on in Conservatory? <BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" = style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff=3D fff" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_ac.43d1acf2.2c3da087_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin vs. Allen (Freud) From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:45:18 EDT     --part1_1e9.cc2b4dd.2c3da09e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/9/2003 8:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kzimmer0817@aol.com writes:   > Is this a real Freudian slip? What kind of instruments do you practice = on > in Conservatory? > >   i am sure it might have been but the current ones are ....   dale   --part1_1e9.cc2b4dd.2c3da09e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 7/9/2003 8:56:30 AM Eastern = Dayli=3D ght Time, Kzimmer0817@aol.com writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"A=3D rial" LANG=3D3D"0">Is this a real Freudian slip?&nbsp; What kind of = instrument=3D s do you practice on in Conservatory? <BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" = style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff=3D fff" SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> i am sure it might have been but the current ones are ....<BR> <BR> dale</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1e9.cc2b4dd.2c3da09e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic parts availability From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:46:50 EDT     --part1_17b.1cfac712.2c3da0fa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   In a message dated 7/9/2003 10:20:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=3D20 acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:   > What on earth is a =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cfake wafer=3DE2=3D80=3D9D? >=3D20 >=3D20   anything that is not real BREAD--in our case it is a pre formed wafer = that=3D20 remind me of Pringles without the flavor.....   dale   --part1_17b.1cfac712.2c3da0fa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 7/9/2003 10:20:32 AM Eastern = Dayl=3D ight Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Times=3D New Roman" LANG=3D3D"0"> What on earth is a =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cfake = wafer=3DE2=3D80=3D9D?<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" = style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff=3D fff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> anything that is not real BREAD--in our case it is a pre formed wafer that = r=3D emind me of Pringles without the flavor.....<BR> <BR> dale</FONT></HTML>   --part1_17b.1cfac712.2c3da0fa_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin vs. Allen question From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:50:48 EDT     --part1_3a.3bb4718b.2c3da1e8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:27:51 AM Central Daylight Time, dillardm@airmail.net writes:   > Maybe there is a dealer > that would even lease one - so you wouldn't have an ownership = committment. > > Margo >   Good idea! I know for a fact that there is a company here in Chicago that =   does that. Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Organist and Director of Music St. Peter's UCC, Frankfort, IL 815.756.6632-home 708.243.2549-cellular <A HREF=3D"gfc234@aol.com">gfc234@aol.com</A>   --part1_3a.3bb4718b.2c3da1e8_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 7/9/2003 7:27:51 AM Central = Dayligh=3D t Time, dillardm@airmail.net writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Maybe there is a dealer <BR> that would even lease one - so you wouldn't have an ownership = committment.<B=3D R> <BR> Margo<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> Good idea!&nbsp; I know for a fact that there is a company here in Chicago = t=3D hat does that.<BR> Gregory Ceurvorst<BR> M.M. Organ Performance<BR> Northwestern University<BR> Organist and Director of Music<BR> St. Peter's UCC, Frankfort, IL<BR> 815.756.6632-home<BR> 708.243.2549-cellular<BR> <A HREF=3D3D"gfc234@aol.com">gfc234@aol.com</A></FONT></HTML>   --part1_3a.3bb4718b.2c3da1e8_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Bread and breads From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:43:24 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --B_3140603004_6009398 Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   On 7/9/03 12:46 PM, "Keys4bach@aol.com" <Keys4bach@aol.com> wrote:   > In a message dated 7/9/2003 10:20:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes: >=3D20 > What on earth is a =3DB3fake wafer=3DB2? >=3D20 > Dale responds: >=3D20 > anything that is not real BREAD--in our case it is a pre formed wafer = tha=3D t > remind me of Pringles without the flavor..... >=3D20 > dale=3D20   Oh, OK, I get it. You describe it vividly enough! Yeccch!   But I don=3DB9t think you want to be so Americo-centric as to suggest that = =3DB3rea=3D l BREAD=3DB2 is like =3DB3real money=3DB2--i.e., U.S. Currency. There are = many kinds of (allegedly) =3DB3real breads=3DB2 on this planet. The usual = =3DB3rule=3DB2 for eucharistic bread is that it be made of wheat flour and water at a minimum; it may = have other ingredients, including yeast, salt, honey, etc. I like raisins. (Also Swedish rye, sourdough, and pita slopped in hummus.) But even our basic minimum uses whole-wheat flour rather than bleached, so it has SOME taste and even a bit of =3DB3appearance=3DB2 and texture.   For communion, the bare minimum is more convenient, of course=3D8Bit = doesn=3DB9t mold, or turn to stone in 12 hours. But convenience shouldn=3DB9t be the = sole criterion. At St. Luke=3DB9s we use a variety of breads, including both leavened and unleavened. The Roman Archdiocese of Los Angeles publishes a great recipe for leavened bread for the eucharist on their website. I = thin=3D k one of our recipes is pretty close to (or even modeled on) theirs.   Then there are the special difficulties posed by communicants who are hypersensitive to =3DB3gluten=3DB2 (whatever that is, but it=3DB9s in = wheat); I=3DB9ve hear=3D d of churches using rice-flour wafers for such people, and hoping that God isn=3DB9t looking. (But then I once heard of a church that used Kool-Aid, = but let=3DB9s not get into THAT!)   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org                 --B_3140603004_6009398 Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: Bread and breads</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman">On 7/9/03 12:46 PM, = &quot;Keys4bach@aol.com&qu=3D ot; &lt;Keys4bach@aol.com&gt; wrote:<BR> <BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman">In a message dated = 7/9/2003=3D 10:20:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:<BR> <BR> &nbsp;What on earth is a &#8220;fake wafer&#8221;?<BR> <BR> Dale responds:<BR> <BR> anything that is not real BREAD--in our case it is a pre formed wafer that = =3D remind me of Pringles without the flavor.....<BR> <BR> dale <BR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman"><BR> Oh, OK, I get it. &nbsp;You describe it vividly enough! = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Y=3D eccch! &nbsp;<BR> <BR> But I don&#8217;t think you want to be so Americo-centric as to suggest = tha=3D t &#8220;real BREAD&#8221; is like &#8220;real money&#8221;--i.e., U.S. = Curr=3D ency. &nbsp;There are many kinds of (allegedly) &#8220;real breads&#8221; = on=3D this planet. &nbsp;The usual &#8220;rule&#8221; for eucharistic bread is = th=3D at it be made of wheat flour and water at a minimum; it may have other = ingre=3D dients, including yeast, salt, honey, etc. &nbsp;I like raisins. = &nbsp;(Also=3D Swedish rye, sourdough, and pita slopped in hummus.) &nbsp;But even our = bas=3D ic minimum uses whole-wheat flour rather than bleached, so it has SOME = taste=3D and even a bit of &#8220;appearance&#8221; and texture. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> For communion, the bare minimum is more convenient, of course&#8212;it = does=3D n&#8217;t mold, or turn to stone in 12 hours. &nbsp;But convenience = shouldn&=3D #8217;t be the sole criterion. &nbsp;At St. Luke&#8217;s we use a variety = of=3D breads, including both leavened and unleavened. &nbsp;The Roman = Archdiocese=3D of Los Angeles publishes a great recipe for leavened bread for the eucharis=3D t on their website. &nbsp;I think one of our recipes is pretty close to = (or =3D even modeled on) theirs. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> Then there are the special difficulties posed by communicants who are = hyper=3D sensitive to &#8220;gluten&#8221; (whatever that is, but it&#8217;s in = wheat=3D ); I&#8217;ve heard of churches using rice-flour wafers for such people, = and=3D hoping that God isn&#8217;t looking. &nbsp;(But then I once heard of a = chur=3D ch that used Kool-Aid, but let&#8217;s not get into THAT!) &nbsp;<BR> <BR> Alan = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;www.stlukesnyc.o=3D rg &nbsp;&nbsp;<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --B_3140603004_6009398--    
(back) Subject: Re: Warped visions, warped trackers From: "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:58:30 -0500   <html><div style=3D'background-color:'><DIV> <P>(Hmmmmmmmm. Lets see. If the Schudi was built in 83 and needed </P> <DIV></DIV> <P>to be replaced 7 years ago, what happened? ! ? ! ? ! It only </P> <DIV></DIV> <P>lasted for 13 years? Unbelievable. </P> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <P>Del W. Case) <BR><BR></P></DIV>Yeah, its a long story, but in the end = you get what you paid for.<BR><BR><BR>Tyler W. Robertson <DIV></DIV>Organist, Handbell Choir Director,First United Methodist = Church, Temple, TX <DIV></DIV>Organist, Baylor University Concert Choir <DIV></DIV>Organist, Accompanist, Baylor University Women's Chorus <DIV></DIV>200 Cottonwood Apt. 3 <DIV></DIV>Waco, TX 76706 <DIV></DIV>(254) 715-6309 <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>From: Del Case <DCASE@PUC.EDU> <DIV></DIV>Reply-To: "PipeChat" <PIPECHAT@PIPECHAT.ORG> <DIV></DIV>To: PipeChat <PIPECHAT@PIPECHAT.ORG> <DIV></DIV>Subject: Re: Warped visions, warped trackers <DIV></DIV>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:07:05 -0700 <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>Tyler Robertson wrote: <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; We have been trying to get a new pipe organ in our = building for <DIV></DIV>&gt; the past seven years. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>Our last organ <DIV></DIV>&gt; was a II/26 Schudi built in 1983. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>Hmmmmmmmm. Lets see. If the Schudi was built in 83 and needed <DIV></DIV>to be replaced 7 years ago, what happened? ! ? ! ? ! It only <DIV></DIV>lasted for 13 years? Unbelievable. <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>Del W. Case <DIV></DIV>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" <DIV></DIV>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs &amp; = related topics <DIV></DIV>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV></div><br clear=3Dall><hr>Add photos to your e-mail with <a = href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMXENUS/2746??PS=3D">MSN 8.</a> Get 2 months = FREE*.</html>  
(back) Subject: vintage organs From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:46:32 -0700   (1) I'm surprised that a Schudi organ only lasted 20 years. I know Marvin Judy; he builds good organs. What was the problem with it?   (2) Regarding "an organ from the 1930s raising a red flag with the organ committee," consider:   Virtually ANYBODY building organs pre-WWII had access to materials of a quality that's VERY hard to come by today ... properly-dried hardwoods, high-quality tin, zinc (ESPECIALLY), leather (MOST ESPECIALLY).   Now ... most of these organs have pitman chests. Pitman chests have moving parts. Pitman chests DO need RELEATHERING from time to time ... how often depends on the amount of use, and the amount of air pollution.   Most of the consoles are electro-pneumatic; they too need releathering. Personally, I'm not convinced that "modernizing" such consoles, and/or replacing mechanical relays with solid state relays is necessarily desirable. There are MANY such organs that are still functioning with their original consoles and relays and combination actions after a hundred years or more.   Once again: vintage organs come in all shapes and sizes, from 3-rank Artistes to behemoths like the ones in Memphis, Boston, Chicago, etc. that I mentioned previously. A GOOD builder can match the "right" organ to your building and particular requirements.   When an organ transplant DOESN'T work, it's usually because somebody tried to do it "on the cheap" and DIDN'T take into consideration the relative sizes of the "before" and "after" rooms, or provide for JUDICIOUS revoicing and rescaling (if needed).   If you get a museum-quality restoration from somebody like Thompson-Allen or Gluck or Bishop or Murphy, etc. you're going to PAY for it. But go hear the restored Skinner at St. Luke's Episcopal Church in Evanston, Illinois and tell me whether it's WORTH it or not. That organ is the VOICE OF GOD. (chuckle) Or go hear what Sebastian Gluck did at the Temple in NYC.   But even if such a project costs 2/3 or 3/4 the amount of a new organ of the same size to do it RIGHT, I have to return to the issue of QUALITY .... yes, there are a handful of GOOD organ-builders out there who COULD reproduce the sound and workmanship of a Hook or a Skinner, but why DO it when Hooks and Skinners are going to the landfill almost DAILY?   Certain builders can build you an impressive STOP-LIST at bargain basement prices, with digital this and digital that. They have their reward (chuckle), and you'll be looking for another organ in not very many years.   Yes, good builders use digital 32s and percussions, but here on the West Coast near the ocean (at least), the lifespan of a sub-woofer is something like 15 years at best. Replace THOSE two or three times and you could have HAD the low twelve pipes of a 32' Bourdon, or a good Resultant with INDEPENDENT quints that could be tuned true. We don't have ROOM for the bottom octave of the 32' Bourdon in our new organ in our present building, so the bottom octave will be resultant in Stage One; the rest will be the 16' Sub Bass playing an octave lower until the organ is moved to the main church when it's built and completed in Stage Two.   New work is BY NO MEANS "better" work. Go hear the restored Hook in St. Mary's RC in New Haven, CT ... that organ can hold its own against ANYTHING built in the 20th century. Ditto Immaculate Conception, Boston. Ditto Holy Cross Cathedral, Boston (when they finally get it ALL restored). Ditto any number of LARGE 19th century or early 20th century organs. We're not talking 12-stop "catalog" organs here.   Visit the OHS website at   http://www.organclearinghouse.com/   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: RE: Neo Baroque From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:17:28 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Del Case wrote:   > I am not interested in a dialogue on neo-Baroque. It has its good > points and its bad ones.   How true this is. Beeing a Cesar Franck / C-C-nut I welcome the back to a nice, "rounder" organ sound and won't miss the screaming mixtures and = overchiffed flues. But organs that constitute valuable "sounding documents" of this particular period are endangered right now because pendulum swings back to = a more "romantic" (?) concept. And over this we forget how many *real* barroque organs from the 1700s and 1800s were discarded or badly modified when romantic style came in in 19th cty, and how many valuable 19th cty = and "Victorian" organs (including a lot of C-Cs) had the same fate when the "reform" movement spreaded. I think we have to be careful and learn from history.   > Its OK not to like neo-Baroque organs. But please don't blame them > for things that are not their fault.   Nothing is worse than recent past, huh? :)... for the other side I understand Ron's point, however. Organs that are tuned in "historic" temperaments and lack extensive specs and modern playing commodities are fine, but put = severe limits to literature performance. Some people may say: "Why, this organ is in a big city which houses a lot of organs more where romantic or modern literature can be performed". Yes, but in *this particular place* it cannot... with the time this becomes a troublesome affair for the local congregation (or audience) and the organist (or organists).   What can be done then?- Build an "Universalorgel" (jeeech!).- Build a = second "romantic" organ (and the money/space for that?).- A stop combination = tuned on meantone, another stop combination tuned on Equal? (Indeed for a time there were "Chamber tone" ranks and "Choir tone" ranks in the same organ!)   Just rhetoric thoughts on Siesta time... :)   Andres =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.      
(back) Subject: RE: Carving a niche in history From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:20:41 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Wowwee!! :) Ron Severin wrote:   > Hi Andres: > A lot of case carving work can now be done quickly and cheaply using laser equipment. (SNIP etc)   Yes, that's the *real thing*. My colleague and me were about to join together and buy one of these for re-manufacturing piano parts (for him), organ parts (for me), keyboards (for both) and jigsaw-puzzles (to get some quick bucks). After some to and fro making contacts in the US and thinking over we dismissed the idea with a big sigh and long faces however... who = on earth will repair this complicate equipment out here when something = fails?- How will we get spare parts when our governemnt closes the exchange market every few months? The same applies for digital-pipe "marriages" and S-S-microprocessor = driven electric consoles...   > Wood draw knobs and rocker tabs are big now with some organists.   True! I am one of them. Wood feels better in the hand than anything and doesn't decay, unlike some plastics or "synthetic woods". BTW I am one of these nuts who prefers to *draw* stops. For that the american or french styled console with drawknobs is my hands-on favourite, even if the action is E or EP :)   Cheers Andres-in-the-woods (LOL) with chisels, router, jigsaw and lathe :) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D First was the cat, then was the Orgler. The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about.      
(back) Subject: Re: Warped visions, warped trackers From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:38:20 -0700   But you mention a "large Pilcher swell box" ... was this perhaps a rebuild of an earlier Pilcher on a shoestring budget?   I would be VERY wary of trashing builders by name on these lists without stating ALL the facts.   Cheers,   Bud   Del Case wrote: > > Tyler Robertson wrote: > >>We have been trying to get a new pipe organ in our building for >>the past seven years. > > > Our last organ > >>was a II/26 Schudi built in 1983. > > > Hmmmmmmmm. Lets see. If the Schudi was built in 83 and needed > to be replaced 7 years ago, what happened? ! ? ! ? ! It only > lasted for 13 years? Unbelievable. > > > Del W. Case > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >        
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin vs. Allen question From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:48:30 EDT     --part1_1dd.d9efc09.2c3dd99e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   most corporate offices would do that and there is the a company HQ'd in Bensenville-----   dale in florida   --part1_1dd.d9efc09.2c3dd99e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">most corporate offices would do that and there = is th=3D e a company HQ'd in Bensenville-----<BR> <BR> dale in florida</FONT></HTML>   --part1_1dd.d9efc09.2c3dd99e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Bread and breads From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:51:04 EDT     --part1_18e.1d109aa0.2c3dda38_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   In a message dated 7/9/2003 1:44:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=3D20 acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:   > But then I once heard of a church that used Kool-Aid, but = let=3DE2=3D80=3D99s no=3D t get=3D20 > into THAT!) =3D20 >=3D20 > Alan =3D20   >=3D20 >=3D20 We had Oreo and milk day for racial awareness Sunday.... Love the idea of changing bread....have gluten allergy but does not stop = me=3D20 from Krsipy Kremes or Dunkin Donuts so a piece of it during communion = would=3D20=3D not=3D20 kill me so to speak.   dale   --part1_18e.1d109aa0.2c3dda38_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 7/9/2003 1:44:57 PM Eastern = Dayli=3D ght Time, acfreed0904@earthlink.net writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Times=3D New Roman" LANG=3D3D"0">But then I once heard of a church that used = Kool-Aid,=3D but let=3DE2=3D80=3D99s not get into THAT!)&nbsp; <BR> <BR> Alan&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000" st=3D yle=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Times Ne=3D w Roman" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" = style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff=3D fff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Georgia Ref" LANG=3D3D"0">We had Oreo and = milk day f=3D or racial awareness Sunday....<BR> Love the idea of changing bread....have gluten allergy but does not stop = me=3D20=3D from Krsipy Kremes or Dunkin Donuts so a piece of it during communion = would=3D20=3D not kill me so to speak.<BR> <BR> dale<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_18e.1d109aa0.2c3dda38_boundary--