PipeChat Digest #3803 - Thursday, July 10, 2003
 
Re: Singing catholis
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: RE pig stomach (was: OHS 2003, First Full Day - VERY LONG)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: RE pig stomach (was: OHS 2003, First Full Day - VERY LONG)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Cantor
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
NEED HELP !!!! Organs in Dalmatia / Croatia
  by "Thomas Mohr" <thomasmohr@aon.at>
Re: interviews
  by "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net>
RC "cantors"
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re:32's a requirement?--Yes!
  by <RMB10@aol.com>
ON A HAPPIER NOTE, WE HAVE LIVE IRC CHAT TONIGHT (Thursday)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: ON A HAPPIER NOTE, WE HAVE LIVE IRC CHAT TONIGHT (Thursday)
  by "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Re: RC "cantors"
  by "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu>
Re: RC "cantors"
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Bread and breads
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re: RC "cantors"
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: RC "cantors"
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: RC "cantors"
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Singing catholis From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:31:07 -0400   On 7/10/03 10:11 AM, "Margarete Thomsen" <mthomsen@umich.edu> wrote:   > On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 10:01 AM, Andr=E9s G=FCnther wrote: >=20 >> QUESTION: Is this a hispanic church or at least attended by a hispanic >> majority?- in this case it makes sense. In most latin-american catholic >> churches it's a *must* for an organist to play and sing into a >> microphone along with the congregation. >=20 > Not hispanic; just plain ol' anglo-saxon middle class america. >=20 > I guess what I don't understand is why my Lutheran congregation whose > number vary from 50-75 on any given weekend can sing lustily without my > singing into a microphone (don't even have one!). Are Catholics > incapable?   Well, first of all, Lutherans ARE catholics. They're just the ones who DO sing (and drink wine, etc.). There are some amazing examples otherwise, though: In downtown Minneapolis there is a huge Roman "basilica" where the= y sing like bats out of purgatory, or something.   Alan      
(back) Subject: Re: RE pig stomach (was: OHS 2003, First Full Day - VERY LONG) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:58:20 EDT     --part1_10f.23f6fa46.2c3f3b7c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Karl,   you ARE kidding, aren't you? The THOUGHT of that is absolutely = nauseating!   Now, if you want to know anything about PASTA...........LOL! =3DoD   Hope you are well.   Scott F. Foppiano Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.   --part1_10f.23f6fa46.2c3f3b7c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Karl,<BR> <BR> you ARE kidding, aren't you?&nbsp; The THOUGHT of that is absolutely = nauseat=3D ing!<BR> <BR> Now, if you want to know anything about = PASTA...........LOL!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=3D p; =3D3DoD<BR> <BR> Hope you are well.<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D4=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" FACE=3D3D"Monotype Corsiva" LANG=3D3D"0"><B>Scott F. = Foppiano=3D </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D2=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></B><BR> Cantantibus organis Caecilia Domino decantabat.</FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#00000=3D 0" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SCRIPT" = FACE=3D3D"Mo=3D notype Corsiva" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_10f.23f6fa46.2c3f3b7c_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: RE pig stomach (was: OHS 2003, First Full Day - VERY LONG) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:07:09 -0700   It sounds DELICIOUS.   Scott, haven't you ever had stuffed octopus with black spaghetti (the sauce made from the ink sac of the octopus)? My Calabrese godmother used to make it for special occasions ... a real delicacy! (chuckle).   After all, sausage casing is pig INTESTINES (grin) ...   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Cantor From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:01 -0400   On 7/10/03 1:04 PM, "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> wrote:   > Maybe this is in case you don't have a cantor to cover. With two choirs, = I'm > sure you have somebody to help cantor for you. >> Mike:   You sound just like the guy who can explain it to me. What IS a cantor? Surely not "to cover."   But what IS his job description (briefly, of course)?   I realize that "THE Cantor" was the one at St. Thomas, Leipzig, in the = early 18th century--who composed, played, taught Latin, you name it! But = perhaps the job has evolved since then?   I am aware that there is an organization called something like the = American Association of Catholic Cantors. I talked to the honcho there several = years ago, and was IMPRESSED. Sounds like a great organization. They teach, = hold seminars, etc. If anyone is in touch with THEM, I'll bet they'd have some very helpful things to say.   Alan (for whom, just to get the ball rolling, a cantor leads the chanting = of the Psalm after the First Reading---but it goes on from there). www.stlukesnyc.org      
(back) Subject: NEED HELP !!!! Organs in Dalmatia / Croatia From: "Thomas Mohr" <thomasmohr@aon.at> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:33:31 +0200   In a few days we will go to Dalmatia (that is the Coast of Croatia - = adriatic Sea) for vacations, the name of the Island is Krk .... Anybody knowing = what to expect organwise ? I would be very grateful for any hint...   regards, T. Mohr -- DI Thomas Mohr Institute of Cancer Research - Vienna University Borschkegasse 8a A-1090 Vienna Austria Tel ++43 (1) 4277 65160 Fax ++43 (1) 4277 65196      
(back) Subject: Re: interviews From: "Mura Kievman" <mura@speakeasy.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:39:56 -0400   At 08:09 AM 7/10/2003 -0700,Margarete Thomsen wrote:   >A couple of days ago I interviewed for a position as music director at a >Catholic Church. Haven't interviewed for anything for quite a while, >particularly not in a Catholic Church, and I'm left with a couple of = questions.     Regarding your first question about singing into the microphone, -- (a) = I'm a singer not an organist and (b) I am currently singing at a Dutch Reform Church in NYC.   However, we were vacationing in France in May of last year and happened to =   arrive in the Dole version of Notre Dame just as communion was about to start. I was startled to see that they were playing the hymns via a tape recorder, and the "choirmaster" conducted the congregation ...   My history of church singing has run the gamut of "congregations that sing". For virtually all of my "early years" I was singing at Episcopal churches (high medium and low) and those congregations rarely sang anything. The organist/choir master used to say that (this particular church) had members who were so wealthy that they were used to hiring people to raise their children and clean their houses, and they carried that over to their singing in church as well. A simplification, I = suppose.   The two Presbyterian churches where I sang subsequent to the expensive Madison Avenue Episcopal congregation sang more ... the Dutch Reform = church where I sing now is VERY active.   It's an interesting question ...   But I was really struck by the situation at the french church. Dole is a larg-ish city near Besancon in case you aren't familiar with it. The express train stops there! It has a highway entrance ...   I was also very pleased because as communion started my husband asked me how long until the service was over. We didn't want to walk out at that moment! I looked at the number of seats that were occupied and predicted 20 minutes, and I was bang on! (My notes tell me that we entered the church at 11:10 and the 10:00 mass was still in progress. The service ended at 11:30.) It was a lovely service (the part we saw) but I admit that a tape recording of organ and choir in a very large church was a first. I also have to say that the church was pretty largely empty of worshippers and we weren't the only gawkers.   This goes along, I guess, with another french patronne's (in Normandy, by the D-Day beaches) statement that "we are catholic but we don't go to = church".   Mura Kievman, only a soprano      
(back) Subject: RC "cantors" From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:44:31 -0700   RC cantors as presently constituted have little or nothing to do with the historic role of the chanters in the Western Rite.   Yes, they "sing" the "psalmody" to their nauseating little ditties, and raise their arms a la charismatics to signal the congregation to sing THEIR nauseating little ditty of a "respond".   Take a look at the Graduale Romanum and the Gradual and Alleluia Verses therein to see how FAR the mighty have fallen (sigh).   Other than that they usually bellow the hymns into a swallowed mike, drowning out the congregation and making it impossible to stay with the organ, since they can't HEAR it.   Their other function is "liturgical traffic-cop" ..."Please stand", "please kneel", "please pat your tummy and rub your head", etc.   A reviewer wrote a number of years ago about Tenebrae at the Church of Saint Mary the Virgin (EPISCOPAL) in NYC ... he noted that the congregation managed to sit, stand, kneel and sing with absolutely NO direction beyond what was printed in the service-booklet, and Tenebrae is a complex service that's only sung three nights a year.   Yes, in fairness to the RCs, they have no tradition of liturgical or musical excellence in this country (outside of that wonderful string of German Benedictine abbeys and parishes across the Midwest, and a precious few other places), thanks to the Irish clergy and bishops, who, while they had valid historical reasons in the beginning (the persecutions in Ireland required Mass to be silent and quick, on pain of death if they were discovered), certainly have no excuse in the Year of Grace 2003.   The consecration of the new RC cathedral in LA, a seldom-seen and beautiful rite, was a compendium of liturgical and musical bad taste, presided over by His Eminence Roger Cardinal MAHONEY (chuckle).   "Ode to Joy" with MARIACHI interludes?   I rest my case.   Cheers,   Bud, who has sworn off RC gigs as hazardous to my physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional HEALTH        
(back) Subject: Re:32's a requirement?--Yes! From: <RMB10@aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:42:18 EDT     --part1_149.14ea1f22.2c3f45ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   >My gosh Monty!=3DA0 Quite an organ!=3DA0 Could you post the stoplist and = builde=3D r? >Thanks, > >Gregory Ceurvorst   Gregory- As soon as the stoplist is finalized, I will post it on here....we = chose=3D20 Ruffatti to build the organ for many reasons--too many to go into here. = As=3D20=3D the=3D20 organ stands now, it's 5 manuals 160 ranks, but I'm begging the church = to=3D20 consider adding a few more things, namely to add one more 32' stop (in = the=3D20 Antiphonal Pedal), two more 3 rank (sharp, natural, flat) sets of 8' = Strings=3D in the=3D20 Celestial division to make it more of a String organ, plus one more 4' in = th=3D e=3D20 Celestial, another Pedal mutation plus two more 8' stops in the main = pedal,=3D20=3D and=3D20 make two Pedal extensions independent. When I get the "yes'" or "no" = answer=3D =3D20 from the Pastor, I will go ahead and post it for the list. It's going to = be=3D a=3D20 fun organ when it's completed--I can't wait for it. What it = represents,=3D20 though, is the Pastor and the church's commitment to good music at any = cost.=3D I am=3D20 going to reiterate, though, from an earlier post, that while the church = is=3D20 spending a fortune on the new building and organ, it's part of a larger = pict=3D ure=3D20 that will make the church a true community center, with retirement = housing,=3D20=3D a=3D20 Hospice house for the terminally ill, a Christian bookstore, a = computer=3D20 learning/literacy center, and a few other community minded things. =3D20   Monty Bennett     --part1_149.14ea1f22.2c3f45ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">&gt;My gosh Monty!=3DA0 Quite an organ!=3DA0 = Could you pos=3D t the stoplist and builder?<BR> &gt;Thanks,<BR> &gt;<BR> &gt;Gregory Ceurvorst<BR> <BR> Gregory-<BR> As soon as the stoplist is finalized, I will post it on here....we chose = Ruf=3D fatti to build the organ for many reasons--too many to go into here.&nbsp; = A=3D s the organ stands now, it's 5 manuals 160 ranks, but I'm begging the = church=3D to consider adding a few more things, namely to add one more 32' stop (in = t=3D he Antiphonal Pedal), two more 3 rank (sharp, natural, flat) sets of 8' = Stri=3D ngs in the Celestial division to make it more of a String organ, plus one = mo=3D re 4' in the Celestial, another Pedal mutation plus two more 8' stops in = the=3D main pedal, and make two Pedal extensions independent.&nbsp; When I get = the=3D "yes'" or "no" answer from the Pastor, I will go ahead and post it for = the=3D20=3D list.&nbsp; It's going to be a fun organ when it's completed--I can't wait = f=3D or it.&nbsp; What it represents, though, is the Pastor and the church's = comm=3D itment to good music at any cost.&nbsp; I am going to reiterate, though, = fro=3D m an earlier post, that while the church is spending a fortune on the new = bu=3D ilding and organ, it's part of a larger picture that will make the church = a=3D20=3D true community center, with retirement housing, a Hospice house for the = term=3D inally ill, a Christian bookstore, a computer learning/literacy center, = and=3D20=3D a few other community minded things.&nbsp; <BR> <BR> Monty Bennett<BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_149.14ea1f22.2c3f45ca_boundary--  
(back) Subject: ON A HAPPIER NOTE, WE HAVE LIVE IRC CHAT TONIGHT (Thursday) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:49:24 -0700   9 p.m. U.S. Eastern whatever-it-is Time.   How to get there:   http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html   If you have difficulty installing mIRC, e-mail David at   david@blackiris.com   or Burgie (my resident guru) at   beejayusa@socal.rr.com   for help.   It's a little tricky to set up, but once it's done, the chat's lots of = fun.   HOPE TO SEE SOME NEW CYBER-FACES!   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: ON A HAPPIER NOTE, WE HAVE LIVE IRC CHAT TONIGHT (Thursday) From: "Eric McKirdy" <emckirdy@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:08:51 -0700   And if any of you use Macs, I'm more than happy to help you set up Ircle, my favorite IRC client for Mac OS X or earlier.   Eric     On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 03:49 PM, quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > 9 p.m. U.S. Eastern whatever-it-is Time. > > How to get there: > > http://www.pipechat.org/irc.html > > If you have difficulty installing mIRC, e-mail David at > > david@blackiris.com > > or Burgie (my resident guru) at > > beejayusa@socal.rr.com > > for help. > > It's a little tricky to set up, but once it's done, the chat's lots of > fun. > > HOPE TO SEE SOME NEW CYBER-FACES! > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: RC "cantors" From: "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:09:34 -0500 (EST)   On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   <snip>   > RC cantors as presently constituted have little or nothing to do with > the historic role of the chanters in the Western Rite.   <snip>   > Yes, in fairness to the RCs, they have no tradition of liturgical or > musical excellence in this country (outside of that wonderful string of > German Benedictine abbeys and parishes across the Midwest, and a > precious few other places), thanks to the Irish clergy and bishops, who, =   > while they had valid historical reasons in the beginning (the > persecutions in Ireland required Mass to be silent and quick, on pain of =   > death if they were discovered), certainly have no excuse in the Year of > Grace 2003.   <snip>   I just want to go on record as saying that, while Bud's post may describe some RC/cantor situations, it BY NO MEANS describes all.   If he's so busy doing his Anglo-thang, how would he even know what's happening in Catholic churches across the country?   I could say more, but it's not worth my time.   I feel that Mr. Bud should apologize to the list for his unsubstantiated rant.   Respectfully, -greg homza (RC) DM student in Organ and Church Music Indiana University Bloomington      
(back) Subject: Re: RC "cantors" From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:17:43 -0400   On 7/10/03 6:44 PM, "quilisma@socal.rr.com" <quilisma@socal.rr.com> wrote:   > Bud, who has sworn off RC gigs as hazardous to my physical, mental, > spiritual, and emotional HEALTH > Alan can't comment with any intelligence, but looks forward to comments = from Jay and Jerry and other RC folks.   We need their words.   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Bread and breads From: "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:11:26 -0400   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00DA_01C34717.0F372D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Reminds me of a UMC I worked in where the minister had the bright idea =3D of having all of the different ethnic families in the church bring =3D indigenous breads for Word Communion Sunday. There were about twenty = =3D five loaves of bread and the communion sort of turned into a taste-test = =3D with people going back for seconds and to different stations to try a =3D new flavor. I'm not sure anyone remember what was supposed to be going = =3D on. But the bread was very good! ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Gfc234@aol.com=3D20 To: pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:46 PM Subject: Re: Bread and breads     The pastor at my church is a very skilled baker. She makes the most =3D wonderful bread for communion Sundays. Its also quite a treat for me =3D being on the Atkins diet-just a little taste of real bread once a month = =3D to keep me going.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Organist and Director of Music St. Peter's UCC, Frankfort, IL 815.756.6632-home 708.243.2549-cellular gfc234@aol.com ------=3D_NextPart_000_00DA_01C34717.0F372D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Reminds me of a UMC I worked in where = =3D the minister=3D20 had the bright idea of having all of the different ethnic families in =3D the church=3D20 bring indigenous breads for Word Communion Sunday.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D There were=3D20 about twenty five loaves of bread and the communion sort of turned into = =3D a=3D20 taste-test with people going back for seconds and to different stations = =3D to try a=3D20 new flavor.&nbsp; I'm not sure anyone remember what was supposed to be =3D going=3D20 on.&nbsp; But the bread was very good!</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =3D BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=3D20 style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D black"><B>From:</B>=3D20 <A title=3D3DGfc234@aol.com =3D href=3D3D"mailto:Gfc234@aol.com">Gfc234@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =3D title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 10, 2003 = =3D 2:46=3D20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Bread and =3D breads</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">The pastor at my church is a very skilled =3D baker.&nbsp; She=3D20 makes the most wonderful bread for communion Sundays.&nbsp; Its also =3D quite a=3D20 treat for me being on the Atkins diet-just a little taste of real =3D bread once a=3D20 month to keep me going.<BR><BR>Gregory Ceurvorst<BR>M.M. Organ=3D20 Performance<BR>Northwestern University<BR>Organist and Director of=3D20 Music<BR>St. Peter's UCC, Frankfort,=3D20 IL<BR>815.756.6632-home<BR>708.243.2549-cellular<BR><A=3D20 href=3D3D"gfc234@aol.com">gfc234@aol.com</A></FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00DA_01C34717.0F372D00--      
(back) Subject: Re: RC "cantors" From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:31:29 -0700   Ah ... like lambs to the slaughter ... wait till you get out in the REAL world, Greg.   You want "substantiation"?   ITEM   Holy Rosary Church, Cleveland Ohio 1963 - choir of men and boys, Solemn Mass at 10 a.m. on Sundays and Holy Days.   ITEM   Holy Rosary Church, Cleveland Ohio 1965 - no choir, guitars at the 10 a.m. Mass   ITEM   Old St. Mary's Church, Cincinnati Ohio 1969 - professional paid mixed choir in the gallery, professional paid men's schola in the chancel, Latin Solemn Mass at the High Altar every Sunday at noon, and Holy Days at 5 p.m. - average attendance well in excess of 1000   ITEM   Old St. Mary's Church, Cincinnati Ohio 1976 - paid quartet in the gallery, no schola, Novus Ordo at the altar facing the people, average attendance less than one hundred   ITEM   Despite the insistence of the DOCUMENTS of Vatican II that the Latin language, Gregorian Chant and the pipe organ have pride of place, American churches have merrily discarded all of the above, and replaced it with "disposable" music from Oregon Catholic Press and J.S. Paluch, accompanied by 3-chord guitarists and keyboardists.   Granted, there are exceptions here and there, but American RC music was a blank slate on Advent Sunday 1964, and they BLEW it, BIG-TIME.   I will be fifty years an organist on the first Sunday of May, 2004 ... so there isn't MUCH I HAVEN'T seen (grin)   Greg Homza wrote:   > > I just want to go on record as saying that, while Bud's post may = describe > some RC/cantor situations, it BY NO MEANS describes all. > > If he's so busy doing his Anglo-thang, how would he even know what's > happening in Catholic churches across the country?   Because I don't live in a vacuum. MANY of my friends are VERY frustrated PROFESSIONAL RC musicians; some have left the field altogether.   > > I could say more, but it's not worth my time. > > I feel that Mr. Bud should apologize to the list for his unsubstantiated > rant. > > Respectfully, > -greg homza (RC) > DM student in Organ and Church Music Indiana University Bloomington   APOLOGIZE? When pigs become aerodynamic (chuckle).   I'd like to take out a full-page ad in the New York Times and say what I REALLY think about the sorry morass that is Roman Catholic Church music in the U.S. today (chuckle), but they probably wouldn't PRINT it (grin).   The RC Church has SQUANDERED her PRICELESS patrimony ... Chant, Palestrina, Byrd, Taverner, Campra, Charpentier, Mozart, Haydn, Bruckner, Langlais, Durufle, etc. ... and exchanged it for a mess of pottage.   The Church of Heinrich Isaak's "Choralis Constantinus" (yes, I know what it is ... I OWN it) is now the Church of Marty Haugen's Mass-of-Put-Out-The-Cat, or whatever that thing is.   PHOOEY!   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: RC "cantors" From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:35:28 -0400   On 7/10/03 7:09 PM, "Greg Homza" <homza@indiana.edu> wrote:   > I feel that Mr. Bud should apologize to the list for his unsubstantiated > rant. > Greg, I was more impressed with Bud's praise of the German Benedictines in Midwstern places like (though he didn't limit himself to a list) St. = John's, Conception Abbey, and St. Meinrad's, than by his "unsubstantiated = rant"--but I think the "rant" part can be extremely well substantiated by Bud.   I invited responses especially from Jerry and Jay (oops? Are they on this list?); I'd like to hear yours TOO.   If you'd dumped it, my original question was:   Mike:   You sound just like the guy who can explain it to me. What IS a cantor? Surely not "to cover."   But what IS his job description (briefly, of course)?   I realize that "THE Cantor" was the one at St. Thomas, Leipzig, in the = early 18th century--who composed, played, taught Latin, you name it! But = perhaps the job has evolved since then?   I am aware that there is an organization called something like the = American Association of Catholic Cantors. I talked to the honcho there several = years ago, and was IMPRESSED. Sounds like a great organization. They teach, = hold seminars, etc. If anyone is in touch with THEM, I'll bet they'd have some very helpful things to say.   Alan (for whom, just to get the ball rolling, a cantor leads the chanting = of the Psalm after the First Reading---but it goes on from there). www.stlukesnyc.org   End quote   Alan (not an RC, but by all means a C, and just wanting to know more about it)      
(back) Subject: Re: RC "cantors" From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:56:00 -0400   On 7/10/03 7:31 PM, "quilisma@socal.rr.com" <quilisma@socal.rr.com> wrote:   > Granted, there are exceptions here and there, but American RC music was > a blank slate on Advent Sunday 1964, and they BLEW it, BIG-TIME. > I REMEMBER that Sunday. I went to mass at St. Jerome's, 138th St., The Bronx. I KNEW what an important day it was; I just wish I could remember more about it, and had in my head the HISTORY of the previous few years to give it context.   Alan