PipeChat Digest #3817 - Wednesday, July 16, 2003
 
Heuss Slider Motors
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
"Hard Germanic Voicing"
  by "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net>
Wicks Captiva
  by "tom carter" <tcarter215@yahoo.com>
Re: "Hard Germanic Voicing"
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing)
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: "Hard Germanic Voicing"
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: "Hard Germanic Voicing"
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING?
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
RE: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing)
  by "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve>
RE: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing)
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing)
  by <Gfc234@aol.com>
Simulated Organs and Saunas
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net>
Re: Hard of hearing - Germanic Voicing
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: The Saunasousaophonica
  by "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk>
RE: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing)
  by "R.E. Malone" <remalone@btinternet.com>
Re: Wicks Captiva
  by "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net>
Office Hymn(s) for August 15th (x-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Simulated Organs and Saunas
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Office Hymn(s) for August 15th (x-posted)
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca>
August 15 Office Hymns redux (x-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING?
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING?
  by "firman1" <firman1@prodigy.net>
IRC tonight?
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Heuss Slider Motors From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:56:17 -0500   Does anyone have any of the older type Heuss slider motors, in good or rebuildable condition, that they would sell? We need several for a rebuilding project. Thanks Roy Redman    
(back) Subject: "Hard Germanic Voicing" From: "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:18:31 -0500   If I were a digital "builder" with adjustable voicing, the first thing I'd want to do is make a CD with direct comparisons of voicing style. Take some common hymns, for example--and play them with baroque sound, then a romantic Skinner, then an American Classic, etc. Let people see what the capabilities are.   Dennis Steckley   Every gun that is made and every warship that is launched, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed--Dwight Eisenhower        
(back) Subject: Wicks Captiva From: "tom carter" <tcarter215@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 07:26:14 -0700 (PDT)   Has anyone played or heard the Wicks Captiva and have an opinion to share on it? And, more importantly, what's the price tag?   Thanks in advance, Tom   =====     __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: "Hard Germanic Voicing" From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:00:18 EDT   The elite manufacturers of organ simulators permit their buyers to select the hardness of voicing according to an established standard, the Mohs Scale of Hardness. Mineralogists know that the Mohs Scale is not proportional, but rather relative, and so it is with the hardness of sounds being made by organ simulators. In my penthouse pied-a-terre here in New York City, I have a four-manual Hyperion Megatron Galactica from their top-of-the-line Magnaplanar Celestion series, with 217 equivalent sound-tone modules. As a meticulous voicer and tonal finisher, I am able to select new circuit boards from the vast Hyperion catalogue to custom-tailor the sounds. I purchased the Cambodian Mutation Module because I wanted both of the Swell Larigots to build up speech at different rates. Oddly, due to some glitch that the local Hyperion dealer refuses to acknowledge or repair, it engages the "Lithuanian Secondary Voicing" module on all of the percussions. The Bombarde Gallery reeds were all sampled from Albanian organs (over a cellular phone) and are amazingly realistic when my guests sing large Parry anthems at my dinner soirees. Although I have only had the instrument for three and a half weeks, I want to move up to the newest Hyperion model, which is part of their Dan Quayle Signature Series. Since I substitute for as many as two weddings per year, it is imperative that I have six manuals to practice on at home.  
(back) Subject: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing) From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:07:09 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   We never learn!   There is no such thing as "hard Germanic voicing".   There is good voicing and bad voicing....period.   Good voicing is when the pipes work WITH a room, and bad voicing is when they don't. The same thing applies to digital organs , but fortunately, the problem can be very easily solved.   Should anyone have graphic equaliser, I suggest they wind down the middle frequencies a few notches; say from about 800hz to 2K hz......even a Skinner can sound like a Cavaille-Coll.   Now reverse the process by playing a CD of a Cavaille-Coll and increase the middle frequencies, but also reign in the top frequencies.....instant romantic mush!   With the sophistication of digital voicing and tonal finishing, it is possible to produce very acceptable sounds for ANY room......but they will never be as good as well voiced real pipes.   So forget "hard Germanic voicing".....just find a tonal finisher who has two ears, a bit of musical knowledge and a modicum of good taste.   I'm often surprised that pipe organ makers do not resort to digital sound tests in buildings where a pipe organ is to be installed. Their clients could benefit from digital tonal sampling..........   "I hear what you say, but do you really want a Schnitger chorus in your living room?"   Once demonstrated, they would soon change their minds!!   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK             --- "First Christian Church of Casey, Illinois" <kzrev@rr1.net> wrote: > If I were a digital "builder" with adjustable > voicing, the first thing > I'd want to do is make a CD with direct comparisons > of voicing style.     ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: "Hard Germanic Voicing" From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:34:59 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   With such a fantastic set-up, Sebastian could truly benefit from my own simulated 32ft Celtic Horn!   If he would care to call my mobile, I will make the necessary culinary arrangements and call him back when the heavy wind supply is full operational.   Using the Oomiboo 7-series sampler and encoder, he would then have the perfect gravitas stop for his dinner soirees.   Those who prefer REAL tone to digital samples, would then be able to make a real-time subjective judgement mid-soiree.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK   PS: Keep the windows open!       --- TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: > The elite manufacturers of organ simulators > permit their buyers to select > the hardness of voicing according to an established > standard, the Mohs Scale > of Hardness.   ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: "Hard Germanic Voicing" From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:21:25 -0400   On 7/16/03 11:00 AM, "TubaMagna@aol.com" <TubaMagna@aol.com> wrote:   > The elite manufacturers of organ simulators permit their buyers to select > the hardness of voicing <snip> > Although I have only had the instrument for three and a half weeks, I > want to move up to the newest Hyperion model, which is part of their Dan > Quayle Signature Series.   Oh, I hope I'm not too late to to seize what I perceive is an opportunity.   With your plan to replace the unsatisfactory Hyperion, and realizing how quickly such an instrument depreciates in cash value, I'd like to inquire about buying it from you when the new one comes in. (I can take it to my cottage in The Bronx on the #4 train.)   UNLESS, of course, you're planning on installing the old one in your sauna. I would not want to stand in the way of such a fine plan.   Eagerly awaiting your encouragement,   Alan      
(back) Subject: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING? From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:39:49 -0700   Hi all, as some may know we fund our HS pipe organ project through surplus organ part sales. But it has been going awfully slow lately. We just had an Aeolian Vox H. up 2X on Ebay, with many lookers and zero bids. Granted it needs some work but could not even fetch $95? If you care to look it's item #: 2544229274 Are all hobbyists and builders on vacation? too many conventions? is the market flooded with vox ? Never thought of this as seasonal.   John V  
(back) Subject: RE: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing) From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:29:18 -0400   Andres Gunther agun@telcel.net.ve   Dear friends,   At first my congratulations to Sebastian M Gluck's and Colin Mitchell's enjoyable *and* instructive creative thinking. Some things to consider:   > There is no such thing as "hard Germanic voicing". > There is good voicing and bad voicing....period.   Exactly! - even to consider the now oh so cursed and booed "Neo-barroque" voicing as "hard" is too subjective in my opinion. To *describe* a sound is, let's say, *pretty difficult*, like describing "white" to a blind.   > I'm often surprised that pipe organ makers do not > resort to digital sound tests in buildings where a > pipe organ is to be installed. Their clients could > benefit from digital tonal sampling..........   Accoustic analysis with sophisticated equipments to aide a proper scaling and tonal finish is done by some building firms. I would prefer the good old method of *listening* to room's accoustics however. It's said that Silbermann threw his cane from the choir into the church nave and listened to the hit- and made his conclusions at once. A legend perhaps, but it circumscribes the point. Electronic hearing is mathematically exact. But mathematically exact sound results "hurt" us precisely for our subjective, unaccurate "natural" hearing.   As for the digital samples, they never sound like the real thing, no matter how "good" or "accurate" they are.... for that we cannot present them to the client and say "Listen to this, my friend: your new organ will sound this way...."   BTW I understand *what* Colin is trying to tell us. Just making a few siesta toughts on my own.   Regards Andres.    
(back) Subject: RE: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing) From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:04:32 -0400   > "I hear what you say, but do you really want a Schnitger chorus in your living room?"   > Once demonstrated, they would soon change their minds!!   'Cuz if they don't, their days of hearing what others say may be numbered...:-)    
(back) Subject: Re: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing) From: <Gfc234@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:18:27 EDT   In a message dated 7/16/2003 1:06:16 PM Central Daylight Time, agun@telcel.net.ve writes:   > Silbermann threw his cane from the choir into the church nave and listened > to the hit- and made his conclusions at once. A legend perhaps,   I once saw accousticians pop a huge balloon in the nave of a church to measure the reverb etc...The Silbermann story may be true-wouldn't surprise me.   Gregory Ceurvorst M.M. Organ Performance Northwestern University Organist and Director of Music St. Peter's UCC, Frankfort, IL 815.756.6632-home 708.243.2549-cellular <A HREF="gfc234@aol.com">gfc234@aol.com</A>    
(back) Subject: Simulated Organs and Saunas From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:22:25 -0500   At 12:21 PM 7/16/2003 -0400, Alan wrote, in response to TubaMagna: >With your plan to replace the unsatisfactory Hyperion, and realizing how >quickly such an instrument depreciates in cash value, I'd like to inquire >about buying it from you when the new one comes in. (I can take it to my >cottage in The Bronx on the #4 train.) > >UNLESS, of course, you're planning on installing the old one in your sauna. >I would not want to stand in the way of such a fine plan.   Oh, dear --   I desperately hope that moving the old Hyperion to the sauna is *not* in TubaMagna's grand scheme of things --   I have been told, by a reputable source close to the local simulated organ industry*, that the plastic materials used for certain external console controls and labels has been discovered to have an heretofore unknown characteristic. Apparently these materials, when exposed to higher than average heat and humidity, will gradually expand ever-so-slightly over the course of time. This phenomenon is being referred to as "Rellom Disease".   Some incidents have been reported of small plastic parts actually launching themselves from wherever they were mounted, when they swelled to the point of overcoming their fasteners. I've heard that an organist in CleaverCorners, Missouri required stitches when a tilting tablet suddenly let go and flew into her face midway through a rousing postlude. As the congregation had already left the building, the poor dear was forced to stumble around the organ loft for several minutes, dazed and bleeding, until being discovered by the church janitor, who heard the organ blower running while he was shutting off the lights.   So, obviously, the sauna would be a highly dangerous place for TubaMagna to place this instrument. Likewise, I think I'd avoid the poolhouse and the solarium. A word to the wise!   I hope this warning has come in time to avoid any further injuries...   Yours in safety,   Tim ;-)   *my sources are verified by the FBOI (Federal Bureau of Organ Incidents), and by EddyBob Parker (who works for the city repainting fire hydrants), whose step-brother's third cousin's ex-wife's brother's father-in-law lives nine miles east of CleaverCorners, MO, and used to go to that church)      
(back) Subject: Re: Hard of hearing - Germanic Voicing From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:13:55 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   I shall not mention names, but I recall observing a voicer, who simply sat silently, listening to birds through the glass and passing traffic rumbling through the rafters.   It's a case of "he that hath ears to hear, let him hear".   Schulze once said, "I can give dem my scales, but I cannot give dem diss", as he pointed to his ear.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK     --- Gfc234@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2003 1:06:16 PM Central > Daylight Time, > agun@telcel.net.ve writes: > > > Silbermann threw his cane from the choir into the > church nave and listened > > to the hit- and made his conclusions at once. A > legend perhaps, >     ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: The Saunasousaophonica From: "Colin Mitchell" <cmys13085@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:19:19 +0100 (BST)   Hello,   I think Alan Freed should just go for an old-time steam-organ!   Make the sauna revolve, add a few fairy-lights and he could charge admission.   Regards,   Colin Mitchell UK ( and enjoying a heat wave)     ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: RE: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing) From: "R.E. Malone" <remalone@btinternet.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:42:51 +0100       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of Gfc234@aol.com Sent: 16 July 2003 19:18 To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Living with a Schnitger (was Hard Germanic Voicing)   "I once saw accousticians pop a huge balloon in the nave of a church to measure the reverb etc...The Silbermann story may be true-wouldn't = surprise me."   Many years ago the Playhouse in Bradford (Colin should know it well) = asked Bradford University to survey the auditorium, used for both film and theatre. The source was a simple do it yourself box containing a battery, speaker = and pulse generator. It was the size of an older portable radio.   It was placed stage centre, switched on and the results recordered at various points. Results taken back to the University for processing.   One of the simplest methods to assess a room is to clap = your hands once in the centre of the room and listen.   Regards,   Richard.    
(back) Subject: Re: Wicks Captiva From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:53:02 -0500   ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom carter" <tcarter215@yahoo.com> > Has anyone played or heard the Wicks Captiva and have > an opinion to share on it? And, more importantly, > what's the price tag? > > Thanks in advance, > Tom     More information including price can be found at http://www.wicks.com/organ/organs/portative.htm   Brent Johnson   The Organ Classifieds http://www.organclassifieds.com Visit ORGANLive http://www.organclassifieds.com/organlive    
(back) Subject: Office Hymn(s) for August 15th (x-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:58:42 -0700   The Anglican Breviary has (1) "Aurora velut fulgida" at Matins and (2)"Ut sol decoro sidere" at Lauds ... I can't locate the Latin or the author, dates, etc., which I usually include in the hymn-insert.   The Benedictine Antiphonale has (3) "O Prima, Virgo, prodita" at Vespers, and (4) "Solis, O Virgo" at Lauds, which I SHOULD be able to locate in English, but can't. Can't find my Liber Responsorialis at the moment, so I don't know what the Benedictines have for Matins.   So ... does anyone have the Latin and author/date/etc. for (1) and (2), and/or the English for (3) and (4)?   Cheers,   Bud St. Matthew's-by-the-Toll-Road Newport Beach CA USA      
(back) Subject: Re: Simulated Organs and Saunas From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:59:01 EDT   I find it extremely invasive to my privacy to announce to the entire chat list that I not only have a sauna at home, but practice for my recitals in there. I do so out of necessity, but it has created an adversarial relationship with the resident chamber orchestra, especially the violists. The sauna is part of a rigorous regimen of physical fitness designed to counteract the deliterious effects of constantly slamming my forehead against pews to test for acoustical properties. If I did not have the sauna, my brain would be seriously affected, and I would make silly, off-topic posts to this list.   Sebastian Preparing to begin voicing our new instrument at Alexander Chapel in the morning  
(back) Subject: Re: Office Hymn(s) for August 15th (x-posted) From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:18:54 -0400   At 01:58 PM 7/16/03 -0700, Bud wrote:   >The Anglican Breviary has ....     I am afraid that at first glance I took that as being The Anglican Brewery- - would that I was right!   Just imagine:   "Anglican Ale" "Bishop's Bitter" "Laud's Lager" "Organist's 'Orror" "Pew Warmer's Wee" "Verger's Vintage" "Rector's Real Ale" "Soprano's Stout" "Alto's Ale" "Trebles' Tipple" "Basses Booze"   Oh, - the mind runs riot!   But it is not to be!   Bob Conway        
(back) Subject: August 15 Office Hymns redux (x-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:14:40 -0700   Every year I say I'm going to "do something" about "Ave maris stella", which in my opinion sounds like a Model-T Ford firing on one cylinder if one tries to sing it in English to the chant melody.   Well, this year I did: TWO versions -- a ferial tone taken from "Solis O Virgo" and a "Mechlinized" version of the familiar Dorian melody that puts the English ac-CENTS where they BE-long (grin).   So, if anybody wants 'em, e-mail me privately ... I can send them as PDFs or Sibelius files, service-leaflet-insert size (5 1/2 x 8 1/2), or 8 1/2 x 11 for the choir.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING? From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:20:33 EDT   In a message dated 7/16/2003 12:47:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jovanderlee@vassar.edu writes:     > is > the market flooded with vox ? >   I can't say that the market if flooded t\with Vox Humanae (humanas?) but I have 4 (yes four) of them is storage - no, I don't need a fifth, yet - and when the resurgence of popularity of V.H's arrives, I will be all set to supply several.   Rick in VA    
(back) Subject: Re: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:45:59 EDT   Despite the destruction of the American economy since November 2000, this is NOT a slow time for organbuilding. Many American organbuilders are looking for trained artisans to help them, with the irony that some are too busy to train people from the ground, up. Pipe organ building in America is quite healthy. The low market price for Vox Humanas may, in fact, come from the fact that there remain many of them in storage, from the days when people threw them out as "romantic and useless." Guess what? Almost every organ that Bach played, heard, or helped design had a Vox Humana, and almost NONE of them had a Krummhorn. Oops. Gegenbewegung. If it is any consolation, organbuilders are specifying Vox Humana stops for new or rebuilt pipe organs with greater frequency, and you may find some takers for your vintage vox. Just don't expect to get a real premium price for it. It sounds unfair, since new ones are quite costly, but tonal tastes are large ocean liners, and take a long time and a lot of space to turn around.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City Subscribe to the Journal of American Organbuilding: $12 per year, $32 for three years, published quarterly Make checks payable to: American Institute of Organbuilders PO Box 130982 Houston, TX 77219-0982  
(back) Subject: Re: SLOW TIME FOR ORGAN BUILDING? From: "firman1" <firman1@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:00:57 -0500   Hello all: TubaMinor wrote: "Despite the destruction of the American economy since November 2000..." Actually the economy was in decline about a year and a half BEFORE that time, in the previous administration, which even tried cooking the books to give the American people false financial figures on GNP and employment, among others. This fixation on re-writing history is getting old....and un-becoming of someone so obviously intelligent. These small-minded political blurbs that pop up in posts are clever but not the truth. Real courage comes from accepting the truth, no matter how distasteful it is to you. Now back to listening to organ music! Mr. Berley Antoine Firmin II      
(back) Subject: IRC tonight? From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:41:00 -0700   The bar's open (grin).   Bud