PipeChat Digest #3835 - Monday, July 28, 2003
 
RE: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Allen versus Rodgers
  by <Quentsmith@aol.com>
Re: Ideas?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Allen versus Rodgers
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
RE: Allen versus Rodgers
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
High church eclecticism
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #3834 - 07/28/03
  by "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Appeal ot their sense of smell (x-posted)
  by "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com>
Re: Ideas?
  by "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com>
Re: Ideas?
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
piano/organ switches
  by "Don Sizemore" <dls@metalab.unc.edu>
Re: Ideas?
  by <FastToccata@aol.com>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net>
RE: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net>
Re: Off to Edinburgh
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net>
Miriam Duncan's lecture on hymn playing
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:56:25 -0500   Dave =96   I am in Lafayette, Louisiana. I have had fantastic personal experience = with the Allen dealer =96 17 years of experience, and the music director has had a = good relationship with the Rodgers dealer, but never dealt with him in regard = to church organs. Without going into detail, I am not as sure of the Rodgers dealer=92s abilities. When we asked for a list of pipe/digital = installations to hear, he said there were none in Louisiana. Turns out there were many, = but they have all had such problems, he didn=92t want us to see them. In fairness, = they were not installed by him, but now I don=92t trust him since he tried to = fool us.   Patrick -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of V. = David Barton Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 7:45 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers?   Patrick,   I have no idea where you are located, which makes advising you difficult. = Both organs have a lot to recommend them. However, with both makes, all = depends on the ability and integrity of the local dealer. Sadly, all too many local dealers believe that their responsibility begins and ends when they = uncrate the instrument, plug it in, and connect the speakers. Many are unwilling to = take the time to voice them properly on-site, and/or lack the expertise to do = so. In that case, to get a good result, the customer would have to hire (at his = own expense) an expert to come in and finish the voicing, a job which should properly be done by the dealer and be included in the price of the = instrument.   I am sorry to have to say that, if you are located where I am (the Baltimore/Washington DC area), I could not, in good conscience, recommend = EITHER organ, for the precise reason given above.   I would definitely ask the dealer for each model to supply a list of = recent customers, and I would not only visit their installations and assess the = success (or lack thereof) for myself, but would also ask the people who use it = regularly what they've thought of the support they've received from the dealer who = sold it to them.   There's no substitute for doing your homework.   Good luck,   Dave     ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Kujawa <mailto:pkujawa@baystar.com> To: PipeChat <mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 8:33 AM Subject: Allen or Rodgers?   Dear friends,   Our church is planning on expanding our 2/30 1983 Wicks with either a = Rodgers Trillium 967 (3/73) or Allen Renaissance 3/80. The committee is pretty = split down the middle, and I am hoping that you all could help a bit with this.   If you had a choice, which would you pick and why? Has anyone had consistent service problems with either one? Any other comments or help?   Thanks!   Patrick        
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:02:08 EDT   There's a very grandly voiced, English-style early 1950s III/41 Wicks with fine pipe metal, good mixtures, and amazingly full-bodied, rich reeds available, and would probably serve your church very, very well, even if not combined with the 1983 material. Oh, well. That organ, including its gloriously voiced, unusual-for-Wicks Pedal reeds, is scheduled to hit the landfill in a matter of days. If we do more research, caring, and networking, more sensible decisions would be made.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Allen versus Rodgers From: <Quentsmith@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:38:00 EDT   I just helped to install and finish a Rodgers Trillium 957 and twelve rank =   combination installation in the San Francisco bay area several weeks ago. = The organ has an antiphonal digital division with festival trumpet and chimes isolated to the rear of the church. The pipe chamber has the subwoofers = and the main speakers in it with an additional group of speakers above the alter = with the choir and swell divisions speaking. The effect is incredible as the = main pipe chamber is off to only one side of the alter. The movement of the = sound from side to side, front to back makes it a living, breathing instrument. The installation also has the automatic pipe tuning controls that eliminate = having to tune the organ to the pipes every time you turn the organ on. Everyone = that has heard the organ, especially the church hierarchy, have raved about the =   organ and has given us many leads to more pipe and digital combinations. = When done properly, and we have the best pipe organ technicians available in the country, the project is easily done. The technician also voiced the organ = and the pipe combination together in half a day and what an ethereal effect! All = organ installations should be this good. There are several Allen organ = pipe/digital combinations in the area, but they do not come off well. You must go to = hear these installations, even if you have to travel some distance to determine = for yourselves the right one for you. If you are in the Northern California = area drop by and we will provide a demonstration. You may email me off the list = for further information. Quentin Smith    
(back) Subject: Re: Ideas? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:57:24 -0400   On 7/27/03 9:23 PM, "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> wrote:   > Actually, there are a couple of hymns in our hymnbook that just do not > work on organ. I rearranged one, the other I finally just gave up and play > it on the piano. One is "Sweet, Sweet Spirit".   That's not as unusual as it may sound. Our organist frequently steps over to the piano when it works better for a particular hymn. You're doing the right thing, in my opinion.   Alan    
(back) Subject: RE: Allen versus Rodgers From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:18:32 -0400   You wrote, among other things:   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Quentsmith@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:38 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Allen versus Rodgers   and we have the best pipe organ technicians available in the country   So, the BEST pipe organ technicians available in the USA are possessed by Rodgers (or was it Allen..doesn't really matter) Could you tell us who the 2nd best pipe organ technicians in the USA are working for? This news must be very distressing for those owning pipe = organs in the US that require service and tuning-- having to deal with 2nd rate technicians under the best of circumstances.   Andrew Mead    
(back) Subject: RE: Allen versus Rodgers From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:18:36 -0400       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Quentsmith@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:38 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Allen versus Rodgers You also wrote:..The technician also voiced the organ and the pipe combination together in half a day..   The technicians must be good to voice 12 ranks of pipes (plus electronics) in half a day. It takes relative morons like myself about a week with an assistant to voice 12 ranks of pipes.   AjM    
(back) Subject: High church eclecticism From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:08:55 -0400   On 7/27/03 9:48 PM, "Chris Tackett" <ctackett1@qwest.net> wrote:   > Of course, my church is used to lots of different music. It's not unusual to > cover three or four hundred years of liturgical music on one Sunday. One > notable Sunday during the recent Easter season we went all the way from > Tallis to Billings to Rodheaver to Kirk Franklin. Sometimes it's whiplash, > but most of the time it works pretty well. I don't know how well theater > sounds would go over in a more high church setting, but we have fun with > them. > > Chris Tackett > Tucson AZ > I got good news, Chris. We are what most people call "high church" (musically, theologically, ritually, ceremonially, and every other way). But we are definitely "eclectic" in our music. Tallis and Billings, by all means. Chorales, African, folk, Caribbean, Gospel, very contemp. And, you're right: We have tons of fun with all of it. As far as we're concerned "high church" in the best sense does not exclude ANY kind of music. (Taste might, but that's up to you.)   Alan www.stlukesnyc.org    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #3834 - 07/28/03 From: "Walter Greenwood" <walterg@nauticom.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:10:22 -0400   In addition to Dave Barton's excellent advice I would simply add: Definitely, absolutely, positively buy the Allen! Just take a peek inside the consoles and compare workmanship. There IS no comparison. Allen's track record for longetivity and service is the best in the business. Now that everyone and his brother-in-law is selling digital samples, this is what separates the men from the boys. (I don't work for Allen or a dealer. I work for Eastman Kodak, and for a church on weekends.)   -WG   > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Allen or Rodgers? > From: "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com> > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:33:08 -0500 > > Dear friends, > > Our church is planning on expanding our 2/30 1983 Wicks with either a Rodgers > Trillium 967 (3/73) or Allen Renaissance 3/80. The committee is pretty split > down the middle, and I am hoping that you all could help a bit with this. > > If you had a choice, which would you pick and why? > Has anyone had consistent service problems with either one? > Any other comments or help? > > Thanks! > > Patrick    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:11:57 EDT   i suggest you look at Ahlborn-Galanti also,   They are pipe compatible also.   <A HREF=3D"www.ahlborn_galanti.com">www.ahlborn_galanti.com</A>   good luck.   Rodgers is better and more experienced at pipe combos! And much better = MIDI stuff.   dale in Florida    
(back) Subject: Appeal ot their sense of smell (x-posted) From: "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:14:11 -0500   Here's a GREAT idea to help boost the attendace of pipe organ concerts and =   help pay your mortgage, rent, car, food, etc.   Get a fine chef to make 100 or so warm apple pies (or baked bread, or a peach cobbler, you get the idea). Take one of them and set it near the air =   intake of the organ.   While playing your concert, people will start smelling the aroma of the suspect delicacy, and say ",Ooh, what a fine smellling organ they have here!". After the concert, you host the bake sale of the treat, pay the = chef and the rest is yours.   No, no, please, you can thank me later. I insist! (It came to me during a show on the Food Network late at night.)   Mike Franch in Madison, WI     >From: Ben Baldus <bbaldus@voyager.net> >Reply-To: Ben Baldus <bbaldus@voyager.net> >To: PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu >Subject: Re: Cheese, tofu & gefilte fisch >Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:35:41 -0400 > >Hello Sebastian, Ken & List: > >You (and Ken List) are worthy of the Pipe Organ List high honors humor >award. I've played some organs that I could swear had processed cheese >or perhaps extra-firm tofu, noodles and bean sprouts as the principal >components in their actions. In the quest for a good glue for the >cheese or tofu, you might try ground up gefilte fisch. Whole, it >certainly leaves a hole in the digestive tract of most sentient beings. > As a cleric and a musician, I'm glad I'm the only truly serious person >on this list. > >All the best, > >Ben Baldus > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >Note: opinions expressed on PIPORG-L are those of the individual con- >tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni- >versity at Albany. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail to >listserv@listserv.albany.edu saying GET LSVCMMDS.TXT or see the web >page at http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/lsvcmmds.html . >::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::   _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail    
(back) Subject: Re: Ideas? From: "Michael Franch" <mvfranch@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:24:36 -0500   Talk to any RC organist that uses the Gather Comprehensive Hymnal.   or check out the Gather (Comprehensive) thread at piporg-L. I like Mr. Clouser's response. I will use some of those also.   Mike Franch in Madison, WI   _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail    
(back) Subject: Re: Ideas? From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:27:10 -0500   What? A non-pipe organ thread on piporg-L?   <incredulous>   Jeff <G>    
(back) Subject: piano/organ switches From: "Don Sizemore" <dls@metalab.unc.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:34:31 -0400 (EDT)     |> Actually, there are a couple of hymns in our hymnbook that just do not |> work on organ. I rearranged one, the other I finally just gave up and play |> it on the piano. One is "Sweet, Sweet Spirit". | |That's not as unusual as it may sound. Our organist frequently steps |over to the piano when it works better for a particular hymn.   i usually lead hymns and play preludes/postludes on organ and accompany the choir with the piano - which in our live sanctuary is more expressive and intimate.   of course, there was the time during our packed homecoming service that the organ cut off in the middle of "in the garden," so i made a hurried organ->piano switch in mid-verse! after the hymn i found that someone had pulled the organ's surge protector box from its hiding place and my assistant, swinging her feet off the bench, had accidentally kicked the butterfly switch. good times :)   donald www.ibiblio.org formerly known as SunSITE 919.962.5646 and stoof.      
(back) Subject: Re: Ideas? From: <FastToccata@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:38:25 EDT   Diane -- You can do "Sweet, Sweet Spirit" on the organ very nicely making = it sound lush with the style of music that it is and the chords that can be added.    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Travis L. Evans" <tevansmo@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT)   Have you considered talking to Wicks themselves. They do digital enlargments. Being in the St. Louis area I've visited the factory and heard their digital work, and plan to do some recordings there. It is much better than any Rodger or Allen combo I've play. I play a 3/60 Allen w/ 20 ranks of pipes. I'd take the Wicks combo over it anyday. But if you insist on going with a Rodgers or Allen, just go listen for yourself, get a list of their installations, and talk to those that play them. Everyone is going to choose one over the other and be very biased. Make your own decisions.   Travis Evans   --- Patrick Kujawa <pkujawa@baystar.com> wrote: > Dear friends, > > Our church is planning on expanding our 2/30 1983 > Wicks with either a Rodgers > Trillium 967 (3/73) or Allen Renaissance 3/80. The > committee is pretty split > down the middle, and I am hoping that you all could > help a bit with this. > > If you had a choice, which would you pick and why? > Has anyone had consistent service problems with > either one? > Any other comments or help? > > Thanks! > > Patrick > > >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:53:02 -0700   Speaking with Wicks is a great idea. Here in Las Vegas, there is a Walker digital with 2 ranks of Wicks pipes installed in the living room of a spacious home here in our Summerlin area...works very well in it's environment.   Regards,   Mark S. Towne Las Vegas, NV (less than a year from the delivery of our new 53-rank Beckerath at UNLV).   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Travis L. Evans Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 7:42 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers?     Have you considered talking to Wicks themselves. They do digital enlargments. Being in the St. Louis area I've visited the factory and heard their digital work, and plan to do some recordings there. It is much better than any Rodger or Allen combo I've play. I play a 3/60 Allen w/ 20 ranks of pipes. I'd take the Wicks combo over it anyday. But if you insist on going with a Rodgers or Allen, just go listen for yourself, get a list of their installations, and talk to those that play them. Everyone is going to choose one over the other and be very biased. Make your own decisions.   Travis Evans   --- Patrick Kujawa <pkujawa@baystar.com> wrote: > Dear friends, > > Our church is planning on expanding our 2/30 1983 > Wicks with either a Rodgers > Trillium 967 (3/73) or Allen Renaissance 3/80. The > committee is pretty split > down the middle, and I am hoping that you all could > help a bit with this. > > If you had a choice, which would you pick and why? > Has anyone had consistent service problems with > either one? > Any other comments or help? > > Thanks! > > Patrick > > >     __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: Off to Edinburgh From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:44:15 -0400   On 7/27/03 11:17 PM, "Kenneth Potter" <swell_shades@yahoo.com> wrote:   > His studio will be our new great room which will house my 1947 Moller = Artiste > in grand style with 11 foot ceilings and great acoustics. It also = served for > several years as the summer home of Jacob Lateiner, the pianist.   Ken: Obviously I've missed something. Are you actually relocating, or = will this be a vacation home? And what happens to St. Peter's?   (No rush; I know you're on the road.)   Alan Freed Also in The Bronx    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: <REEDSTOP@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:10:06 -0500   Wicks uses Walker technology..at least that's what they told me when I toured last year.   Jeff    
(back) Subject: Miriam Duncan's lecture on hymn playing From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:23:04 -0400   Dear colleagues:   Frank Rippl, a fellow student of the late Mrs. Duncan, has obtained and kindly forwarded to me a transcript of a lecture-demonstration that she gave at Oberlin in 1992, with the exhortation to share as widely as possible.   This is such a gracious yet erudite and penetrating discussion that I am delighted (as well as I think duty-bound) to do just that in a separate message, which I wish to send in a moment. Aside from its thought-provoking and objective content, you will get a sense of this great teacher's learning, subtle circumspection, and devotion to her art.   Since this forum does not permit binaries, I have needed to reduce it to text. However, it arrived in my mailbox as a Microsoft Word document, and it would be best to have it in that format, because some words are underlined, giving a sense of her emphasis as she was speaking. Does anyone have, or know of, a web site where this can be made available, at least temporarily? If there is no alternative, I will be glad to send copies of the .DOC to anyone interested; but if everyone is interested who *should* be, my mailbox will be deluged with requests.   Paul