PipeChat Digest #3839 - Tuesday, July 29, 2003
 
Re: Ron's A&R response
  by <Keys4bach@aol.com>
Re: Organ Music on the Internet - xpost
  by "Bonnie Beth Derby" <orge@dreamscape.com>
RE: Ron's A&R response
  by "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net>
Re: Miriam Duncan's lecture on hymn playing
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu>
Re: Ron's A&R response
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Ideas on contemporary music via organ
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
sweet sweet spirit of the organ
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Sweet Sweet etc
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net>
Re: Allen or Rodgers? RE: Response to Del Case
  by <Icedad@aol.com>
Re: sweet sweet spirit of the organ
  by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
RE: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com>
Re: Allen or Rodgers?
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
V/150 trackers
  by "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com>
A true story
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com>
Re: My "Last" Recital
  by "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net>
Re: A true story
  by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net>
RE: A true story
  by "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Ron's A&R response From: <Keys4bach@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:53:52 EDT   In a message dated 7/28/2003 9:51:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RonSeverin@aol.com writes:   > No I don't work for anybody else, this is what I found there   So, Ron, one bad thing and they are bad forever? I heard the very first Gemini installation in Portland. The organ was analog but it had pipes. = NOT BAD and very old.   I will agree totally and with my whole heart you need the bottom octave of =   the Principal8.   Having said that experience is still the best teacher or we would have = never played for next too nothing when we were learning or we would never done student teaching and so on....   No, Rodgers is still the King of combos and MIDI. And they possess the = smoke and mirrors of the other company.   By the way, in my 35 plus years of being a church organist, I have had the =   privilege of installing 4 organs in churches-- A Rodgers Scarbourough An Allen 301b A Rodgers PIPE (complete) A COS G-404. And I still own a model5 Baldwin....   been there and down em all-<G>   happy trails today to all,   dale in Flordia    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Music on the Internet - xpost From: "Bonnie Beth Derby" <orge@dreamscape.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:41:21 -0400   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Johnson" <brentmj@swbell.net> Subject: Organ Music on the Internet - xpost     Reading Jon Nisbet's latest AGOnLine article, I was happy to see some attention drawn to PipeDreams, one of my favorite radio programs of all-time. He points out that PipeDreams has improved the quality of their archived broadcasts, but that there is a danger that PipeDreams may be relegated to a internet pay service to keep it in production. It makes for a great read, as his column always does. I didn't start writing to talk about PipeDreams, however, but I did want to talk about organ music on the internet. I put together a streaming audio presentation of organ music for a builder some time ago, so that web users could listen, even while browsing sites other than the site the music was originating from. Listeners seemed to appreciate it, but I didn't know how well it was going over until space and bandwith restrictions ceased its operation. The amount of email pouring in asking when the streaming organ music would return was overwhelming. Because of this, a project to bring streaming organ music to internet users for free has been started. Under the name ORGANLive, we are currently seeking assitance for this independent new project. I won't put all the details in this email, rather direct you to the ORGANLive website to read more about it. [http://www.organclassifieds.com/organlive ] At this point, we are soliciting music to begin broadcasting, both amatuer and professional recordings, as well as advertisers to help pay for the space and bandwidth. More information can be found at the ORGANLive website at http://www.organclassifieds.com/organlive, or you can email me at brent@organclassifieds.com with comments or questions. Thanks!.   This is an interesting post along with Jon Nisbet's excellent articles in TAO. I am wondering if other related organ broadcasts programs can be listed for all to enjoy. Besides "Pipedreams" with Michael Barone I believe that there is one out of the midwest that I see listings posted on Pipechat and Piporg-l from time to time along with one out of Scandinavia. Also there is a weekly program for both organ and choral music that is offered on several Public Radio stations titled "With Heart and Voice" stemming from WXXI-FM in Rochester, New York with host Richard Gladwell; as well as "Orgelwerke" airing Sunday nights at 8pm (EDT) and "Choral Traditions", Saturdays from 8 to 10pm (EDT) hosted by myself from Syracuse, New York (www.wcny.org): and "The Organ Loft" with host Roger Sherman from KING-FM in Seattle, Washington. I understand that there are more broadcasts on the internet and it would be nice to have a central listing of what is available. (Gosh, if we work this out completely we could have all sorts of organ music throughout the day and night!!)   Anyone want to take up the task of compiling all this broadcast information?   Best regards,   Bonnie Beth Derby Syracuse, New York orge@dreamscape.com    
(back) Subject: RE: Ron's A&R response From: "Mark & Cinda Towne" <mstowne@concentric.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:20:52 -0700     -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Keys4bach@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:54 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Ron's A&R response     In a message dated 7/28/2003 9:51:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, RonSeverin@aol.com writes:     And I still own a model5 Baldwin.... [Mark & Cinda Towne]   We have one at our residence...my wife uses it as a practice instrument...61 note keyboards, 32-note pedal board...and it keeps chugging along!!   Regards Mark S. Towne Las Vegas, NV      
(back) Subject: Re: Miriam Duncan's lecture on hymn playing From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:29:42 -0400   Cecil Rigby has kindly mounted the original document on his web site. You can get it at:   http://www.harrockhall.com/organ/duncan.htm   It's great to see so much interest from so many people. My e-mail overfloweth :-)        
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:31:15 -0700       Icedad@aol.com wrote:   We have a fantastic Allen Renaissance 3 manual 80 stop digital > with 8 pipe ranks and a full 61 note Trumpet en Chamade in the rear > of the sanctuary. It is a breath taking instrument to play and listen > to. Seeing our beautiful speaking pipe facades, people think the organ > is all pipe. It is a marvel. The pipe stops are: Principal 8', Octave > 4', Fifteenth 2', Harmonic Flute 8', Flute Octaviante 4', Flute > Octavin 2', Mixture II.   Snip   ..The church was packed and > people were commenting on the fabulous sound of the "pipe organ." >     There is something I really don't understand. If the electronic sound is so wonderful, why are the pipes necessary? Since so many people seem to hear with their eyes, one wonders if it is primarily to help people think what they are hearing really is coming only from pipes.   Del W. Case Pacific Union College  
(back) Subject: Re: Ron's A&R response From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:25:44 EDT   Hi Mark:   I didn't make any remarks about Baldwin model 5. I did have one once years ago.   Ron    
(back) Subject: Ideas on contemporary music via organ From: "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:11:23 -0400   Alecia,=20 I've found that the first ingredient in translating contemporary piano = music to organ is to "feel" it. Learn the music on the piano first so = that you get a good feel of its movement and what parts are more = critical.   One of the main ingredients is the moving lines prevalent in much = contemporary. A common complaint against organ music is that it's too = "dull" and "chordal". This can be easily remedied by highlighting the = moving lines on either a solo stop or a combination of flutes, 8 and 2, = or 8 and 2-2/3. It's very important to keep the feeling light by = carefully considered registrations that include contrasting voices.   If you are in a place where more than one instrument is used (i.e., = piano and organ, guitars, etc) it much easier if you don't try to "do it = all" but rather avoid duplicating what others are playing. This gives = a great deal of freedom to explore the other voices in the = accompaniment.   Good luck. It really can be fun.   Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at =20 HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 =20 HELP SOME ANIMALS FOR FREE: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i=20 AND http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D308025421  
(back) Subject: sweet sweet spirit of the organ From: "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:18:20 -0400   Diane S. wrote:=3D20 Actually, there are a couple of hymns in our hymnbook that just do not = =3D work on organ. I rearranged one, the other I finally just gave up and =3D play it on the piano. One is "Sweet, Sweet Spirit".>   Good heavens! I've been playing "Sweet, Sweet Sprit" (Gaither, ain't =3D it) on the organ for the past five years, at least. The secret is not = =3D trying to make it sound like "Ein Feste Burg." The secret is to =3D "lighten up."   I haven't found any of these songs that sound better on the piano or =3D synthesizer (different maybe, but not better). I remember finding on =3D that I thought would sound better on the piano, but it didn't.... it was = =3D just as awful on the piano/synth as the organ. Bad music is BAD MUSIC!     Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at =3D20 HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 =3D20 HELP SOME ANIMALS FOR FREE: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i=3D20 AND http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D3D308025421  
(back) Subject: Sweet Sweet etc From: "bruce cornely" <cremona@cervo.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:24:24 -0400   Diane wrote: < But hard as I've tried, it just will not work very well at all on a =3D church style organ. I've even tried it at other churches, on other =3D organs. And I can't put my finger on exactly why, either. It's =3D just a nice piece of music, nothing really weird about it.>   It's not that it does not work very well on a church organ, it's more =3D that you don't like the sound. I've grown used to it and have even =3D grown used to the style of Southern Baptist accompaniment in which the =3D organ is not the lead, but rather one of several accompanimental =3D instruments. Only occasionally do I pull out all the stops, and even =3D then its for the conclusion of a particularly dramatic hymn and may =3D involved only the last phrase.   During our greeting time, as soon as the greeting start, I begin to play = =3D whatever the hymn/song/chorus is for the day. I play through once, then = =3D the song leader brings in the choir (which pulls them back to worship), = =3D and then on the third time around the congregation is brought in, and =3D we're all back to worship. Works like a charm.     Scritchies and Haruffarrroooo-bow-ha-wow...   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at =3D20 HowlingAcres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 =3D20 HELP SOME ANIMALS FOR FREE: http://tinyurl.com/2j5i=3D20 AND http://pets.care2.com/welcome?w=3D3D308025421  
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? RE: Response to Del Case From: <Icedad@aol.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:15:28 EDT   Dear Del,   You are always so pessimistic about digital when you answer my = postings. The PIPES compliment the already wonderful digital sound and blend beautifully.You and I had a debate about this last year. I too am a purist = about pipe organs, but when the money would rather be seen by our congregation for = the needy, sick, AIDS Foundation...etc we installed what was best for our congregation. Thank you for your attention.   Daniel Port Orange, Florida    
(back) Subject: Re: sweet sweet spirit of the organ From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:56:57 -0400   Oh, I finally gave it my last best try a couple of summers ago. Worked on it every week and played it Sundays for a whole month. Decided to forget that idea. For one thing, the venue I'm working in includes some professional singers with a perfectionist approach. We use a standard Protestant hymnbook, all 4 parts, all the verses. They want me to play it "as written". All 4 parts as is, no interludes, no afterludes. If there's an Amen, I play it. If not, I don't. A few fancy additions are OK as long as it doesn't interfere with the regular count. I use part of the hymn as an intro.   I do have a few books with fancy hymn intros, but to do that I'd have to buy more copies, at the very least for the choir director. One trick I have done is to find the same hymn in another book in a different key, so I can go up and stay in all 4 parts-------but it's hazardous to my state of mind. With no particular break between verses.......quick! Change books and change keys.........right. And watch the registration too because this organ sounds bad if you go too high on the keyboard. Either 2' stops or 4X4 connectors, but not both.   However------maybe the last musician was here 40 yrs. and totally steeped in just-so classics, but I've been here long enough, and the congregation has turned over enough, that they're starting to get more used to my style on occasion. More "gospel style" on some hymns. But I still can't make that particular arrangement of Sweet Sweet Spirit sound good on this particular organ. Ah, 1 out of 500 ain't bad!   Diane    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:11:48 -0400   On 7/29/03 12:31 PM, "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> wrote:   > Since so many people seem to hear with their eyes, one wonders if it is > primarily to help people think what they are hearing really is coming = only > from pipes.   And, in that case, is there any element of ethics involved?   I don't mind if you put a couple of tasteful desk lamps on your altar. = But I'd feel different if you put a pair of phony electric candles there.   Alan (perhaps too persnikkity, but that's me)    
(back) Subject: RE: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:44:20 -0500   Ahhh - that we all could have V/150 trackers! I see we're descending into the old debate over purity vs accessibility, preservation of an artform vs stewardship of resources.   Sorry, but I am so tired of this argument. Is there really a correct answer to this, or is it mainly a matter of opinion? If there is no solution, why keep trying, whichever side one adheres to?   Patrick   BTW - my opening comment was not facetious - I really DO wish we could all have V/150 trackers! -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Alan Freed Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:12 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers?   On 7/29/03 12:31 PM, "Del Case" <dcase@puc.edu> wrote:   > Since so many people seem to hear with their eyes, one wonders if it is > primarily to help people think what they are hearing really is coming only > from pipes.   And, in that case, is there any element of ethics involved?   I don't mind if you put a couple of tasteful desk lamps on your altar. But I'd feel different if you put a pair of phony electric candles there.   Alan (perhaps too persnikkity, but that's me)   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Allen or Rodgers? From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:46:04 -0400   On 7/29/03 4:44 PM, "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com> wrote:   > I really DO wish we could all have V/150 trackers!   Ah, yes, Patrick. But then, where to put the congregation?--or "audience" if that be the case? This is New York, and square (and cubic) foots cost a FORTUNE!   Alan (whom you referenced re: ethics of fakery)    
(back) Subject: V/150 trackers From: "Tyler Robertson" <brad_taylor32@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:55:27 -0500     {From: "Patrick Kujawa" <pkujawa@baystar.com>   Ahhh - that we all could have V/150 trackers! }   I don't know about anybody else, but I'd like to keep my tracker organs under III/60. Any more than that and I'm gonna need a few extra people to help me play!   Tyler W. Robertson Organist, Associate Director, First Methodist Church, Temple, TX   _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3D3963    
(back) Subject: A true story From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@direcway.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:54:14 -0500   I must tell you that I am quite flabbergasted. Yes, "Send in the Clowns" is a perfect accompaniment for mothers-in-law to be seated for a wedding, but is NOT, under any circumstances, proper for a funeral. Yet, I heard a canned version at a funeral-home service this very afternoon, after a eulogy delivered by a relative who kept telling us how much the deceased loved her friends and family, a good joke and a party.   To keep this on a sorrowful note, my calendar of "Forgotten English" listed yesterday, July 28, as the anniversary of the "death of Venetian violinist and composer Antonio Vivaldi (1678 - 1741), whose priestly duties had included the musical training of the students of a girls' school in his parish. The 'Red priest,' as he was known because of his hair, was relieved of his duties in part because of his artistically productive but sacrilegious habit of unexpectedly leaving Mass in order to jot down musical ideas."   Where's the vermouth when you need it?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com          
(back) Subject: Re: My "Last" Recital From: "Malcolm Wechsler" <manderusa@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:11:49 -0400   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org] On Behalf Of MARAUDER Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:22 PM To: pipechat; piporg-l; organchat Subject: My "Last" Recital Karl Moyer writes:   Dear On-line Friends,   Seems that I played my "last" recital back in 1998 at the time I retired from the public recital scene, but two events urged me out of "recital retirement": the OHS convention . . . . . <snip>   Malcolm Adds: Those of us who were there at the OHS Convention will suggest that you should "come out of retirement" more often. That was a wonderful event. There's more years in them fingers yet!   I will have a chance to write about that concert in more detail in a few days, if I can keep the writing pace up. It was a fine program, full of very clever ideas, and was played faultlessly.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com      
(back) Subject: Re: A true story From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:23:37 -0400   <<<<<<<<"Send in the Clowns" is a perfect accompaniment for mothers-in-law to be seated for a wedding>>>.   No it's not! I have tried my very, very best to be a good MIL to a man who has = abused my daughter and after 20 yrs. of it I'm extremely tired of being made a scapegoat. If anybody played that for one of my daughters' weddings I would march right over there and chase them right out of the church.   Diane----no sense of humor over that one    
(back) Subject: RE: A true story From: "Mari" <mreive@tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:20:41 -0400   Yesterday was also the anniversary of Bach's death. Mari   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Glenda Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:54 PM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: A true story     I must tell you that I am quite flabbergasted. Yes, "Send in the Clowns" is a perfect accompaniment for mothers-in-law to be seated for a wedding, but is NOT, under any circumstances, proper for a funeral. Yet, I heard a canned version at a funeral-home service this very afternoon, after a eulogy delivered by a relative who kept telling us how much the deceased loved her friends and family, a good joke and a party.   To keep this on a sorrowful note, my calendar of "Forgotten English" listed yesterday, July 28, as the anniversary of the "death of Venetian violinist and composer Antonio Vivaldi (1678 - 1741), whose priestly duties had included the musical training of the students of a girls' school in his parish. The 'Red priest,' as he was known because of his hair, was relieved of his duties in part because of his artistically productive but sacrilegious habit of unexpectedly leaving Mass in order to jot down musical ideas."   Where's the vermouth when you need it?   Glenda Sutton gksjd85@direcway.com         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org