PipeChat Digest #3728 - Wednesday, June 4, 2003
 
RE: Opinions welcomed
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
Re: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention
  by "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Church Jobs and the AGO
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
unions
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Opinions welcomed
  by <ProOrgo53@aol.com>
Your Old Blower
  by "Jason M. Taylor" <Jason.M.Taylor@verizon.net>
Re: Wedding Saturday evening.
  by "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Opinions welcomed... (Long posting)
  by "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca>
Re: Opinions welcomed
  by "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com>
Re: unions
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Opinions welcomed (union thread)
  by <ContraReed@aol.com>
what conservatories teach
  by "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: RE: Opinions welcomed From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:53:21 -0400   Paul: Perhaps when I actually see my wife or other organists being treated poorly by their employers I'll hop on the union wagon-but from my vantage point things just aren't that bad. In fact in our case (my wife's), it's wonderful. We respect our employers and try to do more than asked and they respect us and in turn give us more than we think we deserve.   Andrew Mead   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Emmons, Paul Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 1:02 PM To: 'PipeChat' Subject: RE: Opinions welcomed   Andrew Mead writes:   > I would not like to see organists "organize" and form trade unions. = There would be some short term benefits, but the end would be very bad.   How and why would it be very bad?        
(back) Subject: Re: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention From: "MARAUDER" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:44:31 -0400   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --MS_Mac_OE_3137593471_3617080_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   It will be in gthe hand-out at the convention hymn sing Saturday night at Mahoning Presbyterian Church in Danville PA, the church that Joseph Parry, composer of "Aberystwyth," served. Indeed, Bruce's hymn sing starts with that tune.=3D20   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA   From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:56:56 -0500 To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: RE: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention     Will I receive my copy of =3DB3Laufmann=3DB2 with my OHS convention = handbook? Or i=3D s it available separately?   =3D20   -----Original Message----- From: Cremona502@cs.com [mailto:Cremona502@cs.com] Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 6:38 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention   =3D20   In a message dated 6/2/03 3:11:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pstorandt@okcu.edu writes:         Felix can help=3D8A.=3D20       The wonderful, wonderful, c*t???? ;-)   Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui in the Muttastery at Howling Acres http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502   FEED AN ANIMAL FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i (please it'll only take a minute!)=3D20         --MS_Mac_OE_3137593471_3617080_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> It will be in gthe hand-out at the convention hymn sing Saturday night at = M=3D ahoning Presbyterian Church in Danville PA, the church that Joseph Parry, = co=3D mposer of &quot;Aberystwyth,&quot; &nbsp;served. &nbsp;Indeed, Bruce's = hymn =3D sing starts with that tune. <BR> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Karl E. Moyer<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Lancaster PA<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <B>From: </B>&quot;Storandt, Peter&quot; &lt;pstorandt@okcu.edu&gt;<BR> <B>Reply-To: </B>&quot;PipeChat&quot; &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR> <B>Date: </B>Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:56:56 -0500<BR> <B>To: </B>&quot;PipeChat&quot; &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR> <B>Subject: </B>RE: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">Will I receive my = copy of =3DB3La=3D ufmann=3DB2 with my OHS convention handbook? &nbsp;Or is it available = separately=3D ?</FONT></FONT> <BR> <BR> <FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial"> <BR> </FONT></FONT><BR> <FONT SIZE=3D3D"2">-----Original Message-----<BR> <B>From:</B> Cremona502@cs.com [mailto:Cremona502@cs.com] <BR> <B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 02, 2003 6:38 PM<BR> <B>To:</B> pipechat@pipechat.org<BR> <B>Subject:</B> Re: Bruce Cornely's new hymn for OHS convention</FONT> = <BR> <BR> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman"> <BR> </FONT><BR> <FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">In a message dated 6/2/03 = 3:11:33 PM East=3D ern Daylight Time, pstorandt@okcu.edu writes: <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT></FONT><BR> <FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial">Felix can help=3D8A. <BR> </FONT></FONT><BR> <FONT SIZE=3D3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Arial"><BR> <BR> The wonderful, wonderful, c*t???? &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR> Bruce, with Miles, Molly and Degui &nbsp;in the Muttastery at Howling = Acres=3D http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=3D sp;<BR> <BR> FEED AN ANIMAL FOR FREE http://tinyurl.com/2j5i (please it'll only take a = m=3D inute!) <BR> </FONT></FONT><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </BODY> </HTML>     --MS_Mac_OE_3137593471_3617080_MIME_Part--    
(back) Subject: Church Jobs and the AGO From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:07:43 EDT   Dear Pipe Chatters: While there have been many "job actions" in the AGO ranks in recent years, spurred on by one very public case that seemed to start the ball = rolling, let us keep in mind our colleagues in the AGO who have held the same = position for ten, twenty, or forty years, riding the ups and downs, and maintaining =   housing allowances, benefits, high salaries and high quality music = programs. I know that the knee-jerk reaction is to say that it all has to do with money, = and that money dictates community taste and job security, but there are small, =   rural churches out there with fine, real pipe organs and VERY happy = musicians. The clergy firmly believe that the only way to bring young people to church is to make it indistinguishable from MTV. Add to the that the fact = that clergy are taught nothing about music in Seminary, and the recipe spells disaster. It must begin with the clergy, and that can only happen if = somehow, organists and church musicians can make good friends with clergymen BEFORE = they become clergymen. I am in the midst of a consultancy at an Epsicopal church that has a mechanical action organ from the early 1960s: two manuals, NO pedal, NO = swell division, underwinded, and a completely unplayable catastrophe from the = technical standpoint. When I tried to explain to the pastor why the E. M. Skinner = they had junked might have been more suitable to their Anglican music program = and liturgy than the pile they now had, I got nowhere. After explaining the = nature of varying tonal palettes, what a swellbox was, why organs had pedal = divisions, who this Parry guy was who wrote they hymns they sing, etc., his only question was, "Are you telling me that an 'E' doesn't sound like an 'E'"? = I kid you not... Meanwhile, churches with no endowment are building fine organs that =   work, to accompany good choirs. Chat lists breathe in a rarefied atmosphere, a small group of people = who spend a lot of time discussing their instrument. I continue to be = profoundly disappointed when the majority of organists I meet say, "I'm a Guild = member, but I never bother to open their magazine, and they won't find me a job." = By the time they have created that mindset, I can give them no answers or encouragement. The AGO is the largest organization of professional = musicians in the world, but it can only work if there are common goals. Maybe it is time for chapters that are in areas close to seminaries to =   begin investigating some kind of educational interaction. If not, our = pleas will fall on deaf ears.   Sebastian M. Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: unions From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:14:55 -0700   Um, Andrew ... a couple of questions: is your wife the chief wage-earner in your household? Are you dependent upon her income?   I have a family of four; we're all disabled to one degree or another. I am the sole bread-winner; they are totally dependent upon my income to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.   Currently, my rector is trying to fire me for being disabled myself (congestive heart failure), rather than spend the money to make the choir loft handicapped-accessible.   Yes, if it comes to pass, I think I will have a strong legal case, and I WILL pursue it; BUT ... in the meantime, we will lose our home and be on the street, unless someone takes us in. We are never more than one paycheck away from homeless at BEST.   Against THAT background, "union" sounds pretty good to ME. I've served the church faithfully for 49 years; I think I deserve better, but I'm not going to GET it unless and until a few more organists stand up on their hind legs and say, "ENOUGH!"   Bud   Andrew Mead wrote: > Paul: Perhaps when I actually see my wife or other organists being = treated > poorly by their employers I'll hop on the union wagon-but from my = vantage > point things just aren't that bad. In fact in our case (my wife's), it's > wonderful. We respect our employers and try to do more than asked and = they > respect us and in turn give us more than we think we deserve. > > Andrew Mead > > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > Emmons, Paul > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 1:02 PM > To: 'PipeChat' > Subject: RE: Opinions welcomed > > Andrew Mead writes: > > >>I would not like to see organists "organize" and form trade unions. = There > > would be some short term benefits, but the end would be very bad. > > How and why would it be very bad? > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >        
(back) Subject: Re: Opinions welcomed From: <ProOrgo53@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:15:25 EDT     --part1_cc.1de1d3a0.2c0fc97d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:46:39 PM Central Daylight Time, = mead@eagle.ca writes:   > Paul: Perhaps when I actually see my wife or other organists being = treated > poorly by their employers I'll hop on the union wagon-but from my = vantage > point things just aren't that bad. In fact in our case (my wife's), it's > wonderful. We respect our employers and try to do more than asked and = they > respect us and in turn give us more than we think we deserve. > > Andrew Mead >   Andrew - You and your wife are in an extremely fortunate, if rare, = situation. What's even better is that you realize and appreciate it. = Congratulations from one and all!   Dale Rider   --part1_cc.1de1d3a0.2c0fc97d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"=3D Times New Roman" LANG=3D3D"0">In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:46:39 PM = Central D=3D aylight Time, mead@eagle.ca writes:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D3DCITE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT=3D : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D3D"#000000"=3D style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"A=3D rial" LANG=3D3D"0">Paul: Perhaps when I actually see my wife or other = organist=3D s being treated<BR> poorly by their employers I'll hop on the union wagon-but from my = vantage<BR=3D > point things just aren't that bad. In fact in our case (my wife's), = it's<BR> wonderful. We respect our employers and try to do more than asked and = they<B=3D R> respect us and in turn give us more than we think we deserve.<BR> <BR> Andrew Mead<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" style=3D3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3D3=3D FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" FACE=3D3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D3D"0"><BR> Andrew - You and your wife are in an extremely fortunate, if rare, = situation=3D ..&nbsp; What's even better is that you realize and appreciate it.&nbsp; = Cong=3D ratulations from one and all!<BR> <BR> Dale Rider</FONT></HTML>   --part1_cc.1de1d3a0.2c0fc97d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Your Old Blower From: "Jason M. Taylor" <Jason.M.Taylor@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:18:09 -0400   (Sorry for length)   Daniel,   From your original message, it appears that your blower had a repulsion start/induction run single phase motor. If it was noisy while it was running, that would generally indicate that the motor did not switch from the start mode to the run mode. The sparking you mentioned is also an indication of that problem. That alone would cause the motor to pull much more than a normal current load.   The Cause? The first would be to suggest that the mechanism that switches the motor from start to run was either dirty or out of adjustment. Both conditions should be fixable by a competent motor repair shop. The second condition that could cause the motor not to switch over is too many air leaks. One way to test for that is to block the input of the blower when = it is being started. If you hear the motor click over to the run mode, = remove the input air block, and proceed to look for and repair leaks.   You described a motor without brushes. I am not familiar with that type. However, I have learned from experience, that a motor run for three or = four hours in the Start mode (sparking all the time) will burn out the brushes. Again, this is fixable.   Lastly, Spencer blowers had deeper fins than the newer ones and because of that, were able to produce their pressure at lower operating speeds = (usually about 1150 rpm). This speed advantage will heat the air far less that the newer blowers that operate at 1750 rpm and higher. The heated air will destabilize your tuning, which will in turn destabilize your composure.   New motors are way cheaper than new blowers. Do not through out the Spencer, have it repaired.   Jay Taylor      
(back) Subject: Re: Wedding Saturday evening. From: "Alan Freed" <acfreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:20:46 -0400   On 6/4/03 4:41 PM, "andrew meagher" <ameagher@stny.rr.com> wrote:   > I desperately wish I could go, but I have to play a wedding myslef that > night.   Where on earth is Norwich? ('scuse my ignorance.)   > This couple hasn't even bothered to call me to set up music. They > just told me to play "traditional music." That means I don't have to = play > all the usual things that I am sick of hearing.   Rejoice! The programmme is up to YOU. THEY left it that way. KEEP it = that way. ("Well, ma'am, there's 'your' tradition, and the church' tradition; you didn't say which. Not knowing you or yours, I've gone with the church's, which I DO know. That's why I have this job.")   > I just hope they don't change there mind at the rehearsal.   "I'm sorry, ma'am. Too late for that."   > Anyways, this couple has been a pain in > the butt and I would much rather go to Lee and Kieth's wedding. I hope = you > all have a great time and wish I could be with you.   We, too, wish you could be here for it! > Andrew: You are really the reason why I posted to the list. Lee = mentioned your name this afternoon. Hoping you could make it. I will, of course, convey your regrets and best wishes to the bridal couple!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Opinions welcomed... (Long posting) From: "Blair Anderson" <bda@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:24:22 -0500   On 6/4/03 9:23 AM, "Arie Vandenberg" <ariev@classicorgan.com> wrote:   > It sounds like the best thing to do is look elsewhere where your talents > and music making will be appreciated. > > Let us hope that, people in churches get tired of these happy-clappy, > little substance type contemporary music, and return to the more > traditional great hymnody and sacred music of a better era, when = churches > were full, congregations sang, and generally was more satisfied.   Arie:   As much as I've appreciated all your comments, I appreciate these even = more.   My connections with fellow church musicians across Canada tell me that the trend is slowly reversing and that the "traditional" organ and choir = service is making a comeback. I thought that we were ahead of the trend and = wouldn't have to go through the microphones and the amps and the synthesizers and = the CDs and the yelling and the shaking and the waving.   May we all come through this with our skills, senses, and spirits intact.   Thank you all.   CHEERS! Blair...   _________________________________________ ON LITERATURE This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly... It should be thrown with great force. -- Dorothy Parker    
(back) Subject: Re: Opinions welcomed From: "M Fox" <ophicleide16@direcway.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:46:34 -0700     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> To: "'PipeChat'" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >If laissez-faire capitalism were allowed to run rampant and roughshod, it would > be hell on earth for 99% of us. >On the other hand, I don't care for the effect of a large, coercive, > overweening government as to either economic prosperity or personal freedom. > That leaves unions and co-ops as the best friends of the Reinken file. > As an academic, I've been non-union and I'm now union. I'm here to say > union is better.   List:   I've decided that Paul Emmons (whom I may have met briefly in a cafeteria = at the Chicago OHS but don't otherwise know) has proven himself to be so consistently knowledgeable and wise -- the two, of course, are not the same -- that he deserves some kind of recognition as a List Treasure, or = at least a degree of deference and gratitude.   Or more simply, WELL SAID!   Michael Fox      
(back) Subject: Re: unions From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:54:52 EDT     --part1_fb.404b1b37.2c0fd2bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Hi Bud:   How did the choir gallery in the new building pass inspection without an elevator? The building codes require it, otherwise nobody can use it. Renovations are dealt with the same way, You need an elevator. Old work, unaltered get away with it, but not a renovation project. The law says that incapacitated people who can't climb stairs HAVE to be provided with an wheelchair accessable elevator. They can't be descrimatory against people who need them. Infact, based upon gallery capacity they can require two or more of them. New buildings must provide them, and ramps for the first floor if there are steps up to a landing, and they must meet %age of grade standards not too steep, and wide enough.   Sky Rose Chapel in Rose Hills cemetary has two rather spacious elevators to the organ gallery and two or more stair cases. They had to provide them by law, and the CA building codes.   Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Downey had to close off their gallery after renovations after the 1987 quake because they wouldn't provide an elevator.   Ron Severin   --part1_fb.404b1b37.2c0fd2bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Hi Bud:<BR> <BR> How did the choir gallery in the new building pass inspection<BR> without an elevator? The building codes require it, otherwise<BR> nobody can use it. Renovations are dealt with the same way,<BR> You need an elevator. Old work, unaltered get away with it,<BR> but not a renovation project. The law says that incapacitated<BR> people who can't climb stairs HAVE to be provided with an <BR> wheelchair accessable elevator. They can't be descrimatory<BR> against people who need them. Infact, based upon gallery<BR> capacity they can require two or more of them.&nbsp; New buildings<BR> must provide them, and ramps for the first floor if there are<BR> steps up to a landing, and they must meet %age of grade<BR> standards not too steep, and wide enough.<BR> <BR> Sky Rose Chapel in Rose Hills cemetary has two rather<BR> spacious elevators to the organ gallery and two or more stair cases.<BR> They had to provide them by law, and the CA building codes.<BR> <BR> Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Downey had to close off their<BR> gallery after renovations after the 1987 quake because they <BR> wouldn't provide an elevator.<BR> <BR> Ron Severin</FONT></HTML>   --part1_fb.404b1b37.2c0fd2bc_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Opinions welcomed (union thread) From: <ContraReed@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:29:34 EDT   In a message dated 6/4/03 1:05:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = pemmons@wcupa.edu writes:   << IS THERE A MEMBER OF THE MUSICIAN'S UNION IN THE HOUSE??? >>   I am, for what it's worth (and here in Baltimore, that's very, very infinitessimal). If you're in a place like New York or L.A., union = membership is probably the only way to getting the decent jobs (i.e. broadway shows, = recording gigs, soundtracks, as well as full time orchestra jobs) as well as not = being taken advantage of on those jobs. For lots of less active places, the = union is nice for occasional jobs, or somewhat long-term quasi-temporary jobs (i.e. = - regional orchestras; which usually have a concert or two a month and are = not your primary source of income). The main reason I keep my membership here = in Baltimore is to play in the summer municipal band. Other than that, the = union gigs I've had here in the last 10 years I can count on one hand. I also = have a membership in the Harrisburg PA local since I play in the Harrisburg Symphony. The union there helped the orchestra in its deliberations with = the Symphony Board, so they insisted that all regular orchestra members be part of that =   local. (I can deal with that since I earn between 5 & 6 K per season = there).   At one time the rule that a union musician never worked a non-union job or =   for a non-union contractor (or worked for less than union wages) was = usually enforced, so many musicians were known to have an alias or two as well as = some bad wigs in order that they wouldn't be recognized. Now, at least here, I = seem to get more referrals from the "union office" for non-union jobs. (At = least they're recommending me for something). I called and talked to the local secretary a few months ago, and he admitted the local pickings were rather = slim, and suggested I do what others do: temporarily resign for a quarter in = which you don't anticipate any work. But being the eternal optimist, I always hope something will happen).   Richard Spittel  
(back) Subject: what conservatories teach From: "Jim Clouser" <CromorneCipher@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:44:30 -0400   > Not that they lack musical background- but they were trained > as recitalists, not church musicians. The techniques are > different; repertoire needs are different (recently discussed on > the "Bach in Church" thread) and knowledges in liturgy (that are not teached > at the "Conservatoire") are a must.   Yes, we're trained to be concert musicians - but also church musicians. I can honestly say that the service playing requirements/training here at = the Institute are just as vigorous, if not more so, than church nusic = programs. By graduation, I have to be able to transpose a hymn and a Bach chorale up and down up to a M3 at sight. I have to be able to improvise both filler music and a larger work (partita, etc). I have to be able to do common minor repairs/adjustments/tuning to an instrument. My teacher works with = us on improv and hymnody/liturgy in lessons. Plus, everyone is either: has their own Music Director/Organist job or is an assistant to a full time Music Director/Organist in the immediate area.   I believe that my teacher runs an ad in the TAO every year that says something like... At the Cleveland Institute of Music, we train our = students to be the best in all aspects of organ playing. There are other conservatories with the same approach. Don't get me wrong, these schools are determined to put out top drawer performers and everyone wants to be = the best, but the better performer you are, the better church musician you'll be.   Jim C         ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andr=E9s G=FCnther" <agun@telcel.net.ve> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:17 AM Subject: RE: the AGO     > Andres Gunther > agun@telcel.net.ve > > > Living in other country I am not acquainted with AGO matters, but following > called to my attention: > > > Amateur organists and pianists pressed into service as organists need > > workshops in the basics: pedals, hymn-playing, choral conducting, > > repertoire, etc. > > > Not only amateurs!- Two of my colleagues who have far more advanced = music > degrees than me (one of them was my organ instructor) are not able to = play > even a wedding, much less to accompaign a congregation-hymn singing or play > at a solemnity. Not that they lack musical background- but they were trained > as recitalists, not church musicians. The techniques are > different; repertoire needs are different (recently discussed on > the "Bach in Church" thread) and knowledges in liturgy (that are not teached > at the "Conservatoire") are a must. (Not consider choir and chamber > orchestra conducting and managing; how to deal with a "Consistorium" or > church board, a pastor, a custodian, even how to *behave* in church!...) > > > I'd be interested in master classes on Tournemire's L'Orgue Mystique, > > for instance, or possibly a presentation on the "new" Solesmes = rhythmic > > interpretation of the Chant, or a series of master-classes using = Dupre's > > Improvisation Method as a text. None of those things would interest = the > > amateur organist. > > Perhaps yes... but I agree that these advanced programs cannot be taken = by > amateurs: They pre-suppose advanced music knowledge. > > Cheers > Andres > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > First was the cat, then was the Orgler. > The Orgler got a pet and the cat got something to wonder about. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >     --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 6/1/2003